A Challenge For Non-Believers Of Christianity

I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the non-believers, agnostics and atheists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual), and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible. Forget about every Christian or so-called christian they ever met, steer clear of the Old-Testament, and look at the Bible in a new light. Instead of studying it to use it as a weapon, just read it. By saying to stay out of the Old Testament, I am not saying that Jesus did away with the Old Law. He said that He came to fulfill it with a new Law. The law of love. Don't get hung-up on that statement either.
Will you take the challenge? What have you got to lose? You're not afraid are you? The God I want you to see doesn't threaten people or scare them with eternal damnation. Don't take anyone else's word for it. To thine ownself, be true. I don't see what it would hurt. You're spending all this time in the Bible anyway trying to disprove it. Wouldn't you like to be 110% certain? Try opening your heart and saying to yourself, if there's anything to this, let me find out. Direct my path. If that's too big of a leap, just try reading it with an open mind and see if you can pick up on the personality of Jesus. Or at least realize maybe God's not so bad of a guy, after all. For the really hard core of you, I expect recrimination and the like, but I still hope you give it a try. There are people on both sides that aren't going to change, no matter what comes to light or doesn't. I really do want to hear the outcome. I will wait for a few posts to come in and review them.
Here's a suggestion, even supposed christians take things out of context, or they mistakenly see a period, where there is a question mark. Whenever you are reading the Bible, ask yourself these questions; who's talking? who are they talking to? what is being said? and how does it apply to me, or does it apply to me. For example; Jesus made some remarks meant for the Israeli nation that wasn't meant for everyone. One, "Pray ye that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath." Why would He specifically be talking to the Jews and not the Christians? Because, under the Mosaic Law, a Jew can't travel on the Sabbath. A Christian can. If this calamity falls on a Sabbath, it will fall to a Jewish person's "lot of woe."

Mod Edit: All caps title only.

[edit on 11-8-2007 by UM_Gazz]

Originally posted by janasstar
I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the non-believers, agnostics and atheists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual), and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible.

i have no hate in my heart. hate is the product of anger, and anger a product a fear. hate leads to suffering. i feel no hatred...

atheistic jedism for the win.

Forget about every Christian or so-called christian they ever met, steer clear of the Old-Testament, and look at the Bible in a new light. Instead of studying it to use it as a weapon, just read it. By saying to stay out of the Old Testament, I am not saying that Jesus did away with the Old Law. He said that He came to fulfill it with a new Law. The law of love. Don't get hung-up on that statement either.

i've read the new testament about 3 times, i read the whole bible 2 times. my first two readings of the new testament were out of love of god... then i realized exactly how backwards and human they were.

Will you take the challenge? What have you got to lose? You're not afraid are you? The God I want you to see doesn't threaten people or scare them with eternal damnation. Don't take anyone else's word for it. To thine ownself, be true. I don't see what it would hurt. You're spending all this time in the Bible anyway trying to disprove it. Wouldn't you like to be 110% certain? Try opening your heart and saying to yourself, if there's anything to this, let me find out. Direct my path. If that's too big of a leap, just try reading it with an open mind and see if you can pick up on the personality of Jesus. Or at least realize maybe God's not so bad of a guy, after all. For the really hard core of you, I expect recrimination and the like, but I still hope you give it a try. There are people on both sides that aren't going to change, no matter what comes to light or doesn't. I really do want to hear the outcome. I will wait for a few posts to come in and review them.

have you ever actually read the bible yourself? because if you had, even if you exclude more than half of it...., you wouldn't be challenging us to read it and find love

Here's a suggestion, even supposed christians take things out of context, or they mistakenly see a period, where there is a question mark. Whenever you are reading the Bible, ask yourself these questions; who's talking? who are they talking to? what is being said? and how does it apply to me, or does it apply to me. For example; Jesus made some remarks meant for the Israeli nation that wasn't meant for everyone. One, "Pray ye that it doesn't happen on the Sabbath." Why would He specifically be talking to the Jews and not the Christians? Because, under the Mosaic Law, a Jew can't travel on the Sabbath. A Christian can. If this calamity falls on a Sabbath, it will fall to a Jewish person's "lot of woe."

it's only under strict orthodox mosaic law...

Please first explain to me how noah was able to take koala bears on board or the south american sloth for that matter

And while at it please checkout my thread on the speed of light.

Theres no need to read the bible when these 3 points clearly contradict the bible using logic and common sense.

Ok first of all I have no hate towards _any_ religion. I might find some religous practises odd but I couldnt really care less if someone feel like they want to spend their free time in a "holy" place or praying to a god/s. If you feel like thats something beneficial to you then by all means go for it. By this same logic I have no need to waste my time to study fictional story books no matter how old they are to find some kind of truth behind the stories.

I also find it interesting when people who claim they follow some religion, start to cherry pick the stories and parts of their holy book to meet their personal needs and feelings how they should act. If you plan on following some religious rules written by other people to suit the needs and feelings of their time and political situations, shouldnt you start to question the stories in the first place instead of starting to pick the parts you like and leave the stuff you find distasteful out?

Maybe you should try and look at the other religious stories instead of altering your own to meet your needs? You might find that most of the stories are very similar or exactly the same, with few names and place names changed. So how am I supposed to trust the re-written stories that have been changed and adjusted multiple times to meet the political and social situations of the time for hundreds of years as some kind of truth to study for some sacred truth or "God" to be revered and worshipped?

But hey if you feel like you are better of praying for some mystical entity to give substance to your life, go for it. I personally try and trust my own logic and go with stuff that makes sense. And yes I have read parts or the bible, both old and new parts. I find it to be poorly written, dull and full of rubbish.

Originally posted by janasstar
I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the non-believers, agnostics and atheists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual), and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible. Forget about every Christian or so-called christian they ever met, steer clear of the Old-Testament, and look at the Bible in a new light. Instead of studying it to use it as a weapon, just read it.

You assume a lot by suggesting that if you are an atheist, agnostic, non-believer or of some other religion that our hearts are filled with hate. Far from it. From what I have seen, many Christians have just as hard a time accepting people of other faiths as the people they claim who have a hard time with Christianity.

I am a Baha'i' and as a Baha'i' I accept the divinity of the Christ just as I accept the prophethood of Muhammad, as I accept the legitimacy of all religions. We see in the path of faith an unending cycle of revelation that that leads from the ancient past to an unseen future; that path goes through the Baha'i faith but does not end there, there will be other teachers to continue the spiritual guidance of mankind, if we choose to listen.

I've read that book. The old testament was more interesting reading.
Why would you suggest ignoring half of the book, but believe the other half?

I mean, if this is a collection of "sacred texts", shouldn't one pay heed to the
whole thing, and not just the parts one likes?

To me, it's written by man, translated by man, and aimed at control.
I see nothing that leads me to believe this is the work of any "God".

Originally posted by janasstar
God I want you to see doesn't threaten people or scare them with eternal damnation.

How about we just leave the non-christians alone and they leave us alone? these kind of threads only fuel the hate you mentioned.

Originally posted by grover
From what I have seen, many Christians have just as hard a time accepting people of other faiths as the people they claim who have a hard time with Christianity.

People of other faiths? From what I've seen, Grover, Christians can barely tolerate other Christians.

I was brought up Catholic. We went to church every week. Invariably, after an hour and a half of "peace be with you" and "do unto others", half the congregation would run like hell to get out of there, and the other half would stand around the parking lot talking trash about each other. This was a constant in my upbringing (probably has a lot to do with my current opinion of religion). Even as a child I remember being puzzled by this contradiction of belief and behavior.

Funny, I don't remember anyone sniping about Jews or Muslims or any other denomination.

This is true. George Carlin has a famous routine about different sects of Christianity that hits pretty close to the bone.

I was brought up as a Brethren, which is an off shoot of the Mennonites, which is an off shoot of the Amish... and I do not recognize Christianity today... these mega churches and the like are so far from the small country church Christianity as can be. In my book they are Christian in name only.

Janastarr, your first mistake was to assume that all non-Christians are full of hate. Your second mistake was to assume that non-Christians have never been exposed to the Bible. I grew up Catholic/Protestant, attended Christian schools for my entire education and have read/studied the Bible a number of times. Even as a child, I found the Bible hard to believe. When I became an adult, I left Christianity behind because it just never made sense to me. Today, I am Pagan and am perfectly happy with my chosen religion. Why would I need to change?

Originally posted by janasstar
I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the non-believers, agnostics and atheists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual), and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible.

I stopped reading right there. Sorry mate, don`t mean to offend, but you`re working with a massive misconception about atheism.

Originally posted by grover
....these mega churches and the like are so far from the small country church Christianity as can be. In my book they are Christian in name only.

You got that right, Grover. They've pretty much given up even trying to hide the fact that it's all about the money, and they're just raking it in.

To bring this around to the Bible.... I'm sure we're all familiar with the part of the New Testament in which Jesus finds the moneylenders in the temple and freaks out on them,
kicking butt and pitching them out into the street. (I think of this part every time I see "WWJD" stickers) Well, how does this reconcile with the Vatican Bank? Who, by the way, seem to be involved in other nefarious activity besides lending money for profit.

Although the Bible does contain a lot of guidelines for living a decent life, I can't see basing a belief system on it.

I do not Hate Christians. In fact I would like to reach out to them.

Jews in modern times have ceased pretty much with Proselytism but at one time it was not like this. In fact the word Proselyte originally meant one who was a newcomer to Israel.

Well at one time Christianity was a sect of Judaism. The Church of Jerusalem was so close to Judaism that when the Romans expelled the Jews from Judea and renamed it Palestine, the Church was expelled with it.

I would like to invite Christians back into the fold from where they sprang. I invite them to look back at history and question the Council of Nicea, Constantine, and Paul of Tarsus. I invite them to remember HaShem's Eternal Covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I invite them to become Ger Toshavim.

Its merely an invitation not anything more or anything less.

[edit on 11/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

Those who shall find shall find.

Those who are led astray shall be led astray.

Some will find the true faith, and realize what they thought was Christianity, what they thought was the lesson, what was good to learn, wasn't good.

Some will find that they had been in a den of thieves their entire time, claiming to be amongst the Pious.

Because for everyone Pious, there are 10 snakes. And reptiles have this lovely way of changing their skin to suit their surrounding you see. So when a snake enters a Temple of God, he appears Godly. Well so be it.

You have to come from your own heart. No one is going to make you read, no one is going to be like "just try it! youll see!" against someone with a hardened heart, it wont work. People with hardened hearts ARE that way for certain reasons. And some of them will be humbled by God in the future in such a massive way that it will break through even their hardened heart of hearts. One that is against all recourse. One that already knows and is content. These are those that God and the Spirit have to visit directly.

There are others that don't have such a disposition, and come to the Lord a bit more freely. I was against religion, then I realized how much true wisdom of living, wisdom of life, wisdom of the old man who has seen and been through every ailment, every event, every condition, only to learn the way that I hadn't known. The WAY to be. Righteousness. Holy in their humility and humbleness. Perfect in weakness with God.

It's only when I was alone, and weak, and genuinely and truely asked God to come into my life and teach me wisdom, that it actually happened. And it was a subtle change, but notable nonetheless. And looking back I know that every single problem I had never came close to pushing me beyond my own means. Nothing could touch me, in so many words.

And when something did touch me, it hurt, BAD. And I didn't know what to do. I messed me all up. And thats when things were of a level that I, in my pride, was humble enough to beg God to help me, and trying to coax him into it like a dealer trying to sell myself, saying "I'll never be bad again! I'll carry your word everywhere! I will teach to the people, even those of hardened heart, in a word they can understand!" and God purchased me then. He purchased me with a downpayment of the Holy Spirit and it affected my life positively and profoundly. And I have never forgot him, years past.

I know I was picked up before hitting rock bottom by something profound, something that needs me to do something for him/her/it. To continuously work for God .. perhaps, until the day my flesh expires. But when I die, like my Father before me (RIP Dad it was your lucky day: 7/7/07), I will have a place beyond time set up for me by whom I serve.

And you can't really pick it apart, this which I've spoken, because it's just a testimony. I'm not actively seeking converts, I'm not trying to convince any man in particular through directly speaking to or about them. This is just.. what I had to say about God this Saturday morning.

[edit on 8/11/2007 by runetang]

Pride seems to be the recurring theme in this thread.
And pride is a sin......

Originally posted by rocknroll
Pride seems to be the recurring theme in this thread.
And pride is a sin......

and pride is a label that many christians throw on atheists and atheism... even though they tend to be labelling something called "reasoned cognitive thought" as pride..

It's not Christianity I have a problem with. Hell, I am a Christian.

What I have an issue with is the dire need some people feel to convince me that Santa Claus is real.

Yeah its great for society to love eachother, and it's easier for us if we forgive and don't get wrapped around the axle about stuff. But I'm a grown adult. I don't need fairy tales to give me these morals, other than the general narrative context they provide.

And the fact remains, if Santa is real or not, I'm still getting presents on Christmas morning. As a Christian, I reall wish there would be some definitive evidence that Jesus did not exist. That way everyone who beleives in the philosophy attributed to him will actually have to figure out why they believe that way. His philosophy either works or it doesn't, it's not predicated on his existence.

Now personally, I find that following the teachings of Christ is a great path which brings many blessings. But I also see that Christianity is completely opposite of anything Jesus stood for.

It would be great if someone would just codify his teachings without wrapping it in the trappings requried for children.

Given its bloody history Christianity as a "organized" religion has no room to lecture any other faith about its extremists or bloody history. It is ugly, very, very ugly.

The myth that Islam was spread by the sword is just that, a myth.... all empires are spread by the sword, but the Arab Muslims forbid conversion for the first hundred years of their history and then only grudgingly accepted it later.

You do not hear of a Muslim religious leader telling a knight to set fire to a church of refugees with the words... "kill them all, let God sort them out." as was done in southern France during the Cather heresy. When the crusaders captured Jeusalem they slaughtered all the inhabitants, Jew, Christian and Muslim, until in the words of their own chronicler blood ran in the streets as high asa the knees of their horses. One hundred years later when Saladin recaptured the city he made a point of sparing everyone except one knight (a major troublemaker and chronic violator of truces) whom he ordered killed on sight.

Originally posted by janasstar.
Will you take the challenge? What have you got to lose? You're not afraid are you?

Do you keep kosher? I mean, just in case? What have you got to lose?

Originally posted by janasstar
I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the non-believers, agnostics and atheists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual), and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible. Forget about every Christian or so-called christian they ever met, steer clear of the Old-Testament, and look at the Bible in a new light. Instead of studying it to use it as a weapon, just read it.

I can't help but wonder what the results would be, if the believers, moderates, and fundamentalists would take a certain amount of time (the amount will be up to the individual) and wipe all the hate from their hearts, or as much as is possible. Forget about every Priest or Mullah they ever met, steer clear of religious fairy tales, and look at science in a new light. Instead of being told about it by their pastors who want to demonize it as man-made lies, just read it.