How can you honestly believe in God.

Originally posted by HooHaa
I most definitely believe in an all powerful God. I grew up with evolution and all the other bunk being taught in public schools being taught as fact.

***It's also taught in most private schools. What evidence do you have that its bunk, the Bible?

I don't believe aliens modified our DNA even if that were the case then we are back to the question of who created the aliens.

***That we can agree on.

There has to be a beginning. Since God transcends both time and space he doesn't have to have a creator because there is no time or cause and effect in his realm. That was created when he created our known universe.

***Who says God transcends both time and space, certainly not the Bible, which merely states that he was present at the beginning. This is a later idea brought forth in the 4th century at about the time of the council of Nicea.

If there was a so called big bang then all information and I do mean all info must have existed in that compressed matter. That includes everything that was and will be. You, I intelligence everything was there in that moment.

***That pretty much is the scientific view of the Big Bang.

Then look at all the order from the atom to the universe, the eco system and the whole shebang. What holds us together? why don't our atoms just fly off into space?

***Quite simply, molecular bonds and gravity.

What is conscience? How are we able to fathom eternity?

***That, my friend, is a question that is still be debated in both religious and scientific circles.

Just far to many questions that science cant explain and evolution just doent make any sense at all.

***The fact that science doesn't know that answers to all questions doesn't mean that the answer is forever unknowable. Prior to the invention of the telescope, the church believed that the earth was the immovable center of the universe and all the planets and starts revolved around it. This was church doctrine that you questioned at the peril of both your earthly body and your "immortal soul". Do you still believe this, of course not. The church was wrong.

Besides man and woman would have to have evolved simultaneously. If one evolved with out the other then poof death of the species.

***Men and women did evolve at the same time, I wasn't aware that anyone was questioning that premise.

Many claim the bible has no scientific fact but those who make such claims obviously haven't read the book. It has been proven to be both historically correct and archeology correct and thats not even the core of the bible.

***The Bible is not scientifically correct and I have read it. The earth is not 6800 years old, but rather about 4.7 Billion. The flood didn't happen, at least not in the way the Bible said it, and is instead a story ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh, which predates the Bible. The Bible is, in fact, riddled with scientific and historical errors.

When the dead sea scrolls were found there was less than 3% error from those written 3 thousand years ago and our present book.

***The Dead Sea Scrolls aren't 3000 years old. The oldest has been carbon dated to approximately 335 BC, or about 2300 years old.

F-Dog

Originally posted by jakyll
question for those that believe in god.why do you always see god as a man? if we are made in his/her image wouldn't it make more sence to say that he/she is a hermaphrodite?or even more blasphemous,that god is a woman.might be true.might explain why male's in the womb actually start off as female.hence men having nipples! thats something i read recently.....creation.life.nurture.earth.babies.comfort.love....when you think of these things,do you get images of a man or of a woman?

I believe in two gods,one is a man, one is a woman. Because most things in nature are male and female.

God covers fertility, the day, the hunt, the harvest, animals, etc.
Goddess covers fertility, the night, sexuality, the seasons, the moon, etc.

Basically feminine side and masculine side.

Originally posted by Equinox99
I understand, however the people who made those wars happen,
or people who attack other religions they are evil.
We were put onto this Earth to have free will, and I will keep
my free will until the day I die.
Let me also tell you something bad about science, science
made guns, nuclear power and other junk we kill each other with.
So if you look at it my way, is that there is good and bad in
every matter, particle and everything out there. Positive/negative,
Good/Evil, Yin/Yang.
It's not only Religious people who cause wars, if we had no weapons,
never found oil, gold, silver, and technology, we probably would
not be killing each other as bad as we kill today.

But science is also good because they have found cures for countless of
diseases, and gave us an easier life.
So it does not matter how you see it, there will always be someone there
to see the negative to every positive.

Every hear of stoning someone to death. I believe that came from the bible. and it didn't include a technological piece of weaponry.

what if god isnt formed yet...and we are deciding what he will be. Our concept of time doesnt apply here without the understanding that linear time is just a perception. What if our conscience mind is forming itself in some infinite paradox created AFTER its inception. What if we are just thinking about our existance like the moment you spend before you microwave beeps and you begin to shovel food into your face. What if the sense of god is that memory before we stood there and pressed 3min high. Really bad example I know, but what if life is a casual memory just running through the old cosmic synapses and god is a blurry memory you think happened but arent really sure. What if he was what we are now. Living, i.e life. the living. The act of making the universe changed him. Made him subject to linear time by the eyes of creation who he is still very much a part of. Like he is what will be formed in the big crunch, metaphorically speaking. He transformed into creation and creation will transform into him.

Originally posted by newyorkee
what if god isnt formed yet...and we are deciding what he will be. Our concept of time doesnt apply here without the understanding that linear time is just a perception. What if our conscience mind is forming itself in some infinite paradox created AFTER its inception. What if we are just thinking about our existance like the moment you spend before you microwave beeps and you begin to shovel food into your face. What if the sense of god is that memory before we stood there and pressed 3min high. Really bad example I know, but what if life is a casual memory just running through the old cosmic synapses and god is a blurry memory you think happened but arent really sure. What if he was what we are now. Living, i.e life. the living. The act of making the universe changed him. Made him subject to linear time by the eyes of creation who he is still very much a part of. Like he is what will be formed in the big crunch, metaphorically speaking. He transformed into creation and creation will transform into him.

i have often toyed with the idea that life after death is whatever you had thought it would be.

READ: I AM NON-RELIGIOUS.

Call him whatever you like. The Tau, the force, a "higher power", etc, etc. Anyway, thanks to my very, very, very intelligent and wonderful freind Carrie, I recently came to the following conclusion:

"God" exists, but not in the traditonal sense of existing. He is not tangible. He exists only in our minds, and hearts. "God" is not a man, or even alive at all. "God" is a word for a concept. A human construct. "God" is [represents?] love - platonic, unconditonal love to be exact. He is the personaification of all things good. It makes it easier for the human mind to comprehend the concept of perfection when you think of a person, rather than an ideal.

The Bible, the Koran, and other books of major religions are all talking about the same concept. The concept of pure goodness. They, for the most part filled with metaphors. The books are tools to better help humans understand how to be a better person. The non-historic, mythical events of say, the Bible never occoured outside the minds of the philosophers who wrote them.

Finally, "Heaven" and other forms of the afterlife are the reward for living your life according to the ways of "God" and the metaphoric works of fiction. It (the afterlife) doesn't exist anywhere in spacetime. It exists only in your mind/soul.

So, to ask someone to prove the existence of "God" is impossible, mainly because "existence" itself is in question. People, specifically athiests, just assume existence to mean "it is tangible and exists somewhere in spacetime". That is not the case when it comes to the "existance" of "God".

By finally realizing this, I'm pretty sure I have reched a new level of enlightenment.

[edit on 8/2/2007 by prototism]

[edit on 8/2/2007 by prototism]

Get high and think..you'll discover, I assume you have never seen beauty before. Take a look at space.

The only thing of personal or educational value one can attain from participating in or observing this infinite discussion is the realization that debate is, in fact, absolutely futile.

There is no standard definition for God. Faith itself is, at it's truest level, an internal manifestation of the individual.

Personally, I renounced my Christianity long ago, though I do not proclaim to be an atheist.

However, it has become unmistakably clear to me that those of intellectual compulsion can reach certain conclusions, or at least settle upon a more profound debate.
In the end, inevitably, the arguments between believers in a higher being versus disclaimers of such an entity or concept return to one of the most simple, yet complex, ideas of our understanding: The circle.

"How could the Universe (the space and time in which we dwell, containing all things) have been created unless by a divine being?" From such a question I conclude that the asker would not be content with the explanation: "The universe is..and always was." For, that would imply that there is a limit to human comprehension. To them I ask: How could such a thing as a divine being exist? I would probably be told something akin to "You must have faith that he/she/it exists." Of course, this answer is actually the same as "The universe is and always was." It's an absolutely bitter paradox. There can be no conclusion from this particular debate.

One must embrace the notion that, in such a vastly abstract realm of thought, nothing can ever be proven or disproved. The implication I personally draw from this revelation is that I exist. I am confident in my life. I can comprehend that I reside in a vast, almost impossibly real world. That is all one needs. In your life, you may choose to display faith in whatever you please, and though I do not do so myself, I would never discourage others to. Spirituality, though an emotional creation of the human psyche, is a beautiful guide to enjoying our existence. (Of course, religion is undoubtedly responsible for many wars...but, almost every human emotion has been as well!)

As a last remark, I'd just like to express my grievances at those who've participated in this discussion at the expense of their own respectability. The condescending tones implied by many of the posts in this discussion sicken me. No human being should feel superior to another based on their inner thoughts and beliefs. Also, I sincerely hope I've not committed such an offense as well in my own post. I merely offer my own findings to those who might be interested in a different perspective. I urge any man or woman to refrain from forcing their beliefs upon their fellow human beings.

Not that I believe in God, but "How can you honestly believe in God", seems like a rude way of initiating an intellectual discussion. Almost like, "How can you honestly be so stupid?"

Let's keep the hostilities contained and the friendly interaction encouraged. That's what keeps this site going.

Originally posted by Watchful1
Ok...


Here is what God is...


Everything in every posibility no matter what...


Everything you see and that is, is God.


Period

That's exactly what I believe. In fact, I signed up just to agree.

Everything we can see, smell, taste, think or feel is God. Including us. The whole universe is God. Thats my definition of God anyway.

I look at it this way. Either Consciousness or Matter came first. I look around at the complexity and beauty in the natural world and someone tells me "matter came first and eventually evolved a thing called consciousness which only us humans and some animals have." That sounds bunk to me. I tend to think Consciousness came first and created dense matter as a playground. I think we're infinte consciousness having a material expereince between "birth" and "death" (two false concepts). Quantum Physics shows us that this material world that seems so solid and real only comes into existence upon being observed. Before becoming a particle of "reality" quanta are just waves of "probability" until a consciousness experiences it. Ancient religions and mystery schools all had an in-depth science of how the consciousness navigates from this life to the afterlife. All people who have had Near Death Experiences have felt a lifting of consciousness out of the body, a feeling of unconditional love, and were never afraid of death again - many looked forward to it after the experience. So for you athiests and materialists: How does something as intangible as conscious experience come from something as tangible as this dense matter we call us, our body? (the thing I would call "a vehicle").

something that i'm gonna put here it was also believe that the earth was once round and that the earth was the center of the universe....just like these ideals the how theory of there being no God is slowly fading out people are investigating intelligent design....and more scientist are moving the faux-science that contradicts itself to much anymore to even exist itself to what is call creationism science true science dictated form more proof positives than the faux-science matter cannot be destroyed blah blah yet the universe suddenly was nothing than something....evolution??? where are the weird half evolved monkey humans no pictures from any era depict them at all and there isn't one Rainforest or desert with them in it i mean come on the man who thought it was a possibility realize it was a farce and died know God was real rejecting macro evolutionism

So , Hexidecimal, explain to me, do you want to know why I believe in God or prove to you that God exists?
If you want me to prove to you that God exists, that would be impossible because you have already decided that He doesn't. You see, it's kind of like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Everyone saw two planes crash into the World Trade Center and after a short time came crashing down at an incredible speed...such a speed as to create what must have been nothing short of a small earthquake, thus weakening and bringing down building 7. Yet people choose to believe that it was controlled demolition. To me, my thoughts are logical, to the conspiracy theorists, their thoughts are logical. Will either of us be proven right? If someone is convinced it was a conspiracy, there is nothing I can say that is going to change his/her mind. So, as far as proving to you that God exists, only He can do that and He won't if you make the choice not to believe because He gives us all free will. He won't force Himself upon anyone. He wants for us to come to Him of our own free will.
Now, as far as why I believe. I believe because of the things that He has done in my life that have no other explaination. He has preformed many miracles on this earth even in recent times like heal people from cancer, or other deadly illnesses) and the doctors have no explaination. People have awakened from comas after long periods of time with no brain damage, survived accidents that have killed others, turned lives around that were spirraling out of control, I could go on and on. The point is, if you don't have faith (which is by definition, believing without seeing), you will come up with a way to explain all of it away. So, no, my friend, no one will be able to prove to you the existence of God but trust me you are missing out by not knowing Him.

Hmm. I agree with the God part, but as for the "after-shock" fall of WTC 7 I don't think so. The police cleared everyone away from WTC7 and orally performed a countdown to its collapse. The buildings owner said to pull "it" pull the building, not pull "them" the firefighters out. There is a perfect demolitions "kink" in the building before it comes down at near-free fall speed. How did an after-shock that no one else felt break every support beam simultaneously causing it to perfectly implode? Besides you don't get after-shocks from non-earthquakes.

I love these arguments/discussions so full of of fervor and conviction. I do believe in a God. Or maybe two, seeing as man was made in God's image. I am sure it wasn't beyond Him to cook up a little hot thing to spend all eternity with.

I respect everyone's right to hold their own conviction, because I know what is true is what is true to you. But I have a question for all of the fervent Atheists out there. As humans with our limited knowledge of the universe, isn't it at least possible that there is more to life than we know currently?

I just pose this question, because we really don't much about anything in our current level of enlightenment. I mean, we know some, but not all. I mean, I believe science and spirituality can coexist. If you want proof that there is more to life than we currently know look at UFO's, ET and crop circles. We don't even know exactly how gravity works as a species. We have no idea what the other dimensions hold in store. And, I think most scientists agree there are other dimensions.

Just something to think about while discounting people with faith. I believe blind faith is easy, but true faith is quite difficult.

I have no problem with Atheists, because they are entitled to their own beliefs, that is what makes this world of free will so great. Just because we have not yet proven God or anything else exists, does not mean that you are right and the faithful are wrong. If you really want proof, look inside yourself.

I leave you with a great quote by Albert Einstein.

I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

I just re-read your post and you don't think there was an after-shock. You think the inital collapse of 1 and 2 compromised number 7 in such a way that it stood for 5 more hours before perfectly imploding into itself in 7 seconds? That can't happen without tens of thousands of steel support beams failing simultaneously... which doesn't happen without explosives... and certainly doesn't happen 5 hours after an 'earthquake'

The point I was trying to make was that once you believe something, no one is going to convince you otherwise. As far as 9/11 goes, there are plenty of experts out there for both sides, for all we know it could have been a UFO that took down building 7! This is a thread about believing in God, I believe there is another thread about the 9/11 conspiracy. And for the record, yes, I do believe in UFOs, but that's another thread.

I am not religious in the slightest but i do have religious friends and i respect their beliefs even if they do not run parallel with my own, i'm not sure if it really matters if you believe in god or not, we all here now co existing with each other.

On another note, some people that pose the very question posted in this thread 'How can you honestly believe in god' believe in some ridiculous stuff themselves (i'm talking evil greys, reptillian world leaders, galactic federations waiting for us to fire nukes so they can step in and save us blah blah blah) so i guess it's fair to say put a raincheck on your own beliefs before you start being critical of others

Do I believe in Oranges?

Well.... I have in my mind defined an "orange" as a sweet piece of fruit... orange in color... and therefore... when I see one of those... I believe it to be an orange.

Do I believe in God?

Well... I have in my mind defined god as "all that is was and ever shall be." So whenever I come into contact with anything that IS, WAS, or SHALL BE... I know I am interacting with what I have DEFINED as God.

Atman is Brahman.

That said... why is it that this thread is taking up front page space on ATS when this is clearly a FAITH/SPIRITUALITY issue that belongs in BTS?

I am,

Sri Oracle

This question is for both Atheist and God believing people.

Why do you think these God threads have so many responses and consistantly rank among the more popular threads?

Why do people try so many times to convince others when they know it will do no good?

In my opinion, it sounds like people are trying to convince themselves as to their own beliefs instead of trying to convince others to change. Im not trying to attack anyone or any particular side of this issue. For as long as conscienciousness has existed man has tried to answer the questions that these threads have asked.

Whether it is a process of evolution or a trait that God has given us, we have the means and desire to strive for a higher purpose and greater understanding as to why we are here.

There are always the very few on both sides of any issue that my next statement is not directed towards. In my opinion 99% of the people out there have some doubt as to what actually lies beyond death. If you had absolutely no doubt, you would be at peace with the issue and probably would not give these threads a second thought. In closing, I think the answer to the question everyone is asking is a personal question that must be answered on an individual basis and cannot be dictated to you by others.

Of course it is a personal question. It's the most personal question there ever was and ever will be. To base your belief on the argument of others is foolish. I concur with the previous poster in regard to the obvious uncertainty those drawn to argue on such a forum display. They doubt themselves, and in turn seek confirmation of their own deductions, under the pretense that they simply cannot fathom the ignorance of certain other individuals who hold separate, conflicting ideas.

EDIT: But amusingly enough, those conflicting ideas are very much alike, almost in every case, upon closer inspection. Keep an open mind.


[edit on 3-8-2007 by WorldWeary]