A conservative guy with a few guns and rifles point of view on 911.

It's been a long time since I posted because I've been so busy with work working eighty hours a week and such, but this post caught my attention as I was trying to log in and I had to reply.

First off, I'm disheartened by his "props". Don't get me wrong, I'm all for gun rights. (I'm reminded of the bumper sticker which says, "Ban guns to make the world a better place for government takeover." Haha.) I just find it unsettling that he used them as a centerpiece for his message. Although I completely agree that we, as common citizens, have an almost constitutional responsibility to bear arms to provide at least some level of checks and balances against our government, I feel that taking up arms should be a last resort. Oh, I hope upon hopes that we have not reached the point where our only hope is to pick up arms and start a real war with our government.

However, I agree with almost everything he said. Most of all, I agree with his most important point. We need to forget about our differing political views, ignore our stigmas as Democrats, Republicans, Liberatarians, or whatever, stand down as conservatives, liberals, and middle-of-the-roaders, and stand up together as Americans to reverse the chain of events that has been set in motion. We need to "lock arms", (as he put it), as fellow citizens of this once great nation, and put an end to the atrocities that have been and still are being perpetrated by our government.

A civil war, in my opinion, is the the only answer. This country is ripe for a civil war. My only hope is that this civil war will take place in a "civil" manner, and the need to bear arms against our government will not come into play.

Bill Clinton is not one of my favorite people, for reasons other than those you may assume, but he did say one thing that I think is relevant at this time, "There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America." I don't think we've yet gotten to the point where a literal war is necessary to save our country. I think we still have enough shreds of freedom left to take advantage of that we can rebuild our great nation without a single shot fired.

However, the point of no return is nigh, and I fear that not enough people are getting the facts and accepting them. If this is true, the rifle we saw in this movie may become only one of many that comes to a use of which I doubt any of us wish upon ourselves: to defend ourselves against our own government and our own fellow citizens.

Whatever happens, I hope more than anything that Abraham Lincoln was correct when he said, "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

[edit on 19/7/07 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
"It is our 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Have you forgotten about that piece of paper?"



But thats all it is - a piece of paper. Laws change with changing societies - unfortunately that means "rights" too. You are not free, you are only free in the terms of your society. It was once a law in Wales that you could only beat your wife with a stick the size of a thumbspan, nothing more. Times change, so do laws and what people deem to be rights.

Its not just a piece of paper. You must not live in the usa. The constitution is the foundation of our rights that this country fought to preserve. Yes laws change. But the constitution is our rights that we have lived by for 200 years. We will not let our government take it away for there own personal gain of power. This country may see some hard times in the future, But i will tell you now, The people will stand up and take it back when they have seen enough.
Just as a previous post stated, this country has some of the most adverse types of killers in it. They keep pushing and the people will push back.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by cavscout
Horrible to end such good conversation by delving into the finer points of gun control, even if every single poster is afraid to post what they really think about the original topic.

I see. Well, then. I guess I'm done here.

Aww, come on, how could this topic possibly go anywhere without you?

Maybe I shouldn’t have said "every single" poster, some here have made their position quite clear, like you have (so have I, BTW, see my thread from way back in '05America, when is it enough to die for?

BTW people, when the ninja-clad swat boys kick in my doors I will instruct my attorney, if I get one, to notify ATS and Justin specifically. Don’t hold your breath, though. I am sure they are watching and every now and then a little coffee and doughnut spew forth from their noses while trying to hold back the laughter over how silly and paranoid we can be. On the other side of the coin though I am sure that Vicki Weaver would caution us that we can never be to careful, that is if Lon Horiuchi (Fed sniper extraordinaire*) hadn’t shot her in face while she was armed to teeth (if armed to the teeth means cradling a small child in your arms) in her own home.

Oh, and Justin, I owe you a public apology for implying that you may be an agent provocateur in the past. You just never know is all, and smart outspoken individuals such as your self raise suspicions in our modern world.

*Just a side note, dear patriot troopers, Lon Horiuchi showed up again at Waco, and in several other engagements as well. Maybe Herr Hillary will find him and his cohorts some meaningful work?

Here is a little information about this brave hero who single handedly liberated a small baby from it's mother's monstrous grasp. Bring a barf bag with you if you are going to click the link, the picture of Lon's smiling face on Wiki has been known to incite projectile vomiting.

wiki/Lon_HoriuchiIn 1992, while working at sniper position Sierra 4 for the FBI Hostage Rescue Team at Ruby Ridge, Horiuchi shot and killed Vicki Weaver, and wounded her husband Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris. Vicki Weaver was behind a door – unarmed and holding her infant daughter – when a bullet fired by Horiuchi at Kevin Harris instead struck Vicki Weaver in the face.[3]

I am out of beer and a little sleepy, off to bed. Sure hope that picture of Mr. Horiuchi doesn’t show up in my nightmares, I would rather meet the boogieman.


[edit on 19-7-2007 by cavscout]

If it were not for the 2nd Amendment, the right to bear arms, the USA would be a much different place than we know it today. It WOULD be a total police state if over the past 231 years the government was not somewhat held back from doing whatever that wish by armed citizens.



[edit on 19/7/2007 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
How many guns do the military own? Do you think they are really phased about yours?

Right, you can’t fight a large and overwhelming force with small arms.

Someone forgot to tell the Iraqis that.

Someone forgot to tell the Afghans that when they were fighting the Russians.

Oh, and for that matter our history must not have really happened. How could a bunch of colonists fight off the (at the time) largest empire ever seen?

You know, a man I served with in Iraq always said that the worst thing our nation ever did was send guys like him to Iraq to witness first hand how effective an I.E.D. could be on a large military force.

I bet Tim McVeigh probably had similar thoughts. We always train the people who end up fighting us. Don’t believe me? Just ask Bin Laden where he got his training. What goes around comes around.

I just honestly hope that the men we are sending over to Iraq to learn to make war on the U.S. don’t come back too jaded at the things they are made to do. Honestly, I pray that we will not slide into a civil war. I like my microwave and my cheap gas way too much to want to worry about crap blowing up on the side of the road on American streets.

It's not too late to change things the nice way.

Blood and guts all over the street sucks guys, you don’t want it here, at home. Peaceful change is worth the effort if it can be accomplished. Do any of you think it still can be?

[edit on 19-7-2007 by cavscout]

sorry to be harsh but any idiot who does this is just looking for trouble .
the man has no common sense . none . and i think most will agree ..i said " think " . but it's a crazy world .

Sometimes some people come to a point where they can take no more lies and value their famlies future more, than they value their own lives.

Something needs to be done, at the end of the day, they are just people like we are.

Why does he say he hates liberals?...... What exactly does he hate about people who want things like equality?

All the other stuff 9/11, Federal Reserve....... heard it all before and not spouted by some wannabe Alex Jones. Standing there in front of a flag and a pile of guns makes him look INSANE.


I thought he was pretty cute though, I hope his next video is on xtube instead of youtube.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by VelvetSplash]

Velvetsplash:

Why does he say he hates liberals?

For his own private reasons? I hate them to, and no, I am not a Republican, whom I hate as well..

What exactly does he hate about people who want things like equality?

LOL, please, the self righteous BS is spouted from both sides..

Perhaps thats what has turned him into a violence supporter?

Standing there in front of a flag and a pile of guns makes him look INSANE.

In your opinion, imo, it sends a signal to the rest just how far some may go.....

I thought he was pretty cute though, I hope his next video is on xtube instead of youtube.

.....k... I don't get the joke...

Wait. What in the video indicates that he is a 'violence supporter'? I own alot more guns than he does and I'm not a violence supporter. Saying a person is a 'violence supporter' because they own firearms is like saying a person is an arson supporter because they own a lighter.

He is saying that the government (both sides and virtually all players) has systematically sold-out the Constitution and the Bill of Rights --- and he is dead-on right. He wants people to wake-up. Wake-up people.

This guy is definitely worthy of recognition. He's actually right on all points so far as I can see (other than what can only be speculation). I, too, have wondered just why both the buildings, the entire buildings, should collapse after an aircraft hit them. Don't get me wrong, I know how much force is behind a 737 moving at 400 or so knots, but the Empire State Building survived an aircraft hitting it. It just seems odd that a building would spontaneously collapse after an aircraft hit it, WELL after.

I thought his arguments were well reasoned and honest. He was straight up about his positions and his views and I respect that. Incidentally I share them as well.

I have noticed that some folks have taken issue with the display of the flag and the guns. The reason is because we are being conditioned to think that this flag and these guns are bad. By engaging in immoral wars across the world while not trying to win them, but instead just keep them going to feed the military industrial complex, we are slowly being conditioned to think that "America is bad, therefore, the flag is bad". It doesn't help that we hear this from Europe so often as well. The main reason we are being conditioned to think our country and flag is bad is so we will accept the North American Union and New World Order, and welcome the UN troops in our streets.

On the guns issue, I stand by Ron Paul's position that "A healthy respect for the 2nd Amendment might have prevented 9-11 or Virginia Tech."

Ultimately, above all, please remember the final thing he said, that being that we conservatives and liberals need to come together on this. I am trying to do this at work with both liberals and conservatives. It is hard, but taking baby steps so they don't immediately run away seems to be helping. To do it, you have to look at someone straight in the eyes, smile, and let them know everyday with just simply your body language and demeanor that you are their friend and they are your friend, despite the fact you may ideologically disagree. In that way we can not alienate 1 another, and defeat their Marxist Hegelian Dialectic techniques meant to divide and conquer us. It's all about what Aaron Russo said:

Stop being good democrats.
Stop being good republicans.
Start being good Americans.

P.S: In response to the link on the thread Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?, please check out the thread titled The Next President: Member of Shadowy Elite Group. There's information on what groups like the CFR for example, that each candidate belongs to.

Kelldor

On gun control.

Now I know I'm gonna get flamed for this but; like the guy in the video; I'm about to express my opinion regardless of the thoughts of (in this instance) the majority.

First off, if anyone is going to argue against gun control, leaning on the 2nd amendment of the US constitution is plain baloney. It was a decision made during a time of rife and 'should' no longer be applicable.

It unfortunately is. The American need for guns is a necessary evil, but one must not forget that it is an evil none the less.

Yes! it is your right to bear arms.
Yes! it is necessary.

However it is only necessary because of the evil of men. One should never forget that. The reason for action should never be confused with means.

I'm 100% against guns. However as long as 'the enemy' makes use of them they are needed.

So please be sure of your reasoning.

Nothing has any value, it is all an illusion. Worth is based on nothing. "Oh but, the metals have worth in the world..." That is not the concept. The idea is that no worth can be placed on a substance because it only has a different energy state in which it shows off a shine. Money in any case always agrees with the lords and disagrees with the slaves. Why? Because it has absolutely no sense in it. Individuals are paying "money" or "worthiness" to experience things! And 90 out of 100 people do not want to get rid of money, (CONSCIOUSLY) , because they want to rule over another. (THEY REALLY DO NOT THOUGH) Your bodies want to believe in control systems. The breath is in disarray because it is living in a deception world the mind has made for itself. All of you "truthers" want something, and it is not a nation, you all want something REAL and it is love. (MIGHT I ADD THE PHRASE "DAMN IT" FOR EMPHASIS) Now who is going to help me help you and stop living in this hell of perpetual cultural problems. There are things we have eaten that have contents that try to take away our true senses. This is why they have done it. To make us think we all fall short of perfection. Now use your pineal gland and perceive the Infini for what it is...

Originally posted by pyrolimeade
Nothing has any value, it is all an illusion. Worth is based on nothing. "Oh but, the metals have worth in the world..." That is not the concept. The idea is that no worth can be placed on a substance because it only has a different energy state in which it shows off a shine. Money in any case always agrees with the lords and disagrees with the slaves. Why? Because it has absolutely no sense in it. Individuals are paying "money" or "worthiness" to experience things! And 90 out of 100 people do not want to get rid of money, (CONSCIOUSLY) , because they want to rule over another. (THEY REALLY DO NOT THOUGH) Your bodies want to believe in control systems. The breath is in disarray because it is living in a deception world the mind has made for itself. All of you "truthers" want something, and it is not a nation, you all want something REAL and it is love. (MIGHT I ADD THE PHRASE "DAMN IT" FOR EMPHASIS) Now who is going to help me help you and stop living in this hell of perpetual cultural problems. There are things we have eaten that have contents that try to take away our true senses. This is why they have done it. To make us think we all fall short of perfection. Now use your pineal gland and perceive the Infini for what it is...

what do you suggest?

It's a Zionist game, please don't fall for it. If you want to destroy USA, nothing can do it better than a civil war.

Originally posted by masterp
It's a Zionist game, please don't fall for it. If you want to destroy USA, nothing can do it better than a civil war.

Ok so we sit back and watch the America be destroyed by our politicians.

I'd rather fix it myself with the help of my brothers and sisters than watch a bunch of corrupt politikos steal, lie, and cheat their way back into power.

We need a change, revolution whether peaceful or violent, will fix things.

This is a very dangerous route of thought...
Many people here seem ready to jump right into civil war to 'save' their country.

Sounds to me like a primitive reaction to the need we all have for change.
Surely we're smarter than guns?

Originally posted by Spec01
This is a very dangerous route of thought...
Many people here seem ready to jump right into civil war to 'save' their country.

Sounds to me like a primitive reaction to the need we all have for change.
Surely we're smarter than guns?

I don't think one needs to start terror bombing the white house to start a revolution.

The first step would be to stop paying income taxes. This would stop the government's main flow of income, send a wake up call of sorts. They can't come after every US citizen.

Next or even before this would be a march on Washington...million or more person march asking for the federal government to step down and reinstate the rights of its citizens since the politicians have neglected their responsibilites.

I can't say I'm a revolutionary paramilitary leader, but if STHF...

Originally posted by masterp
It's a Zionist game, please don't fall for it. If you want to destroy USA, nothing can do it better than a civil war.

This has nothing to do with civil war. Civil war = factions within the population fighting each other. Those interested in the destabilisation of the coutry are the ones who would foment civil war. Not us. Divide and conquer. Why do you think there is such a mess in Iraq? The people behind the war are the ones fomenting the civil unrest. There's no margin in their winning the war. They just want it to go on as long as possible. Take, for instance, the case of the two British SAS soldiers

It's not in our best interest to resort to violence or the threat of violence. It is in our best interest to make people aware of what is going on and demand action and accountabillity from our representatives.


[edit on 19-7-2007 by jtma508]