A conservative guy with a few guns and rifles point of view on 911.

Purpose, Courage, and Honor. That is what it takes. Why are we all here on ATS tring to out think, and out wit one another? What good could possibly come from this contest of 'info wizardry'? A country is only as good as the people who compose it. Our grandfathers weep, and shake thier heads in the ground we buried them in. We MUST accept responsibility for the world we live in. How will history judge our apathy, our selfishness? On our deathbeds we shall reflect on our time, on our actions; what will we remember? Who will we be?

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
Good luck. The abolition of guns is something i agree with as it seems the lesser of two evils to me

If you think less guns = less crime then you've got your facts wrong.

I can link you to numerous example of less gun control equating to less crime. An urban Georgian community was once required by law to purchase at least one hand gun per home, and violent crime rates around households immediately plummeted because every "bad guy" out there knew that the place he was about to invade had at least one gun ready to go for him.

Criminals will always have access to guns if they want them bad enough. As it is currently, gun laws are constantly broken and people are always failing to register weapons properly, reporting potentially controversial weapons stolen so no one from the fed will come looking for them later, etc. Thinking that making them illegal is going to cause the amount of gun-owners out there to drop drastically is fool-hardy, just like banning marijuana or alcohol and assuming people will just stop using either of those. Guns might not be desirable for the same reasons but I can promise that there are still plenty of people that love their guns and their right to bear them and will NOT hand them over, even if it means breaking the law one way or another. Bottom line is that determined people are always going to do what they want.

If you give up your guns, that makes you more vulnerable. That's all it really does.

Originally posted by jtma508
Justin... how should we go about doing this? I agree with you. Completely. However, I'm at a loss as to how we, the People, can get this to happen. It seems that we've been asleep at the switch and 'they' have developed a significant momentum. What can we do?

First and foremost, we've got to understand that "we" are not going to break the system. "They" are. It's our job as good citizens to work within the system for as long as we can. In a way, it's a lot like you're documenting a crime...as it takes place. We know what these guys are doing. As we document their actions, so too must we document our protests.

Once they do the thing that breaks the sytem, "we" will have to convince a lot of people to make some very difficult reforms. If we can prove what we say, much like a detective proves HOW a crime happened...we'll win more hearts and minds to get those reforms we want.

Here's a series of podcasts that may give you a moral boost. All you have to do is click and listen. The threat of Centralize Power is the most real conspiracy that I know of. As it stands right now, you have political options that you might not have considered. We know what's coming and it is our civic duty to convince others through non-violent means.

Originally posted by tyranny22
I agree with you that something needs to be done in a civilized way. However, I believe that using the methods set forth by today's standard of petitions will never work.

Actually, they will. When the politicos push things too far, we've only got three choices. Live with it, vote in reformers, or fight. those of you who have read my published work know that I advocate for reform, but I'm willing to acknowledge the necessity of a fight. Remember that "they" will be teh ones to break the faith, and it'll be our job to show proof by pointing to a long and healthy debate that has spawned many books, blogs, movies, and "stuff" that has been making the case all along. that's how today's methods will beat them in the future.

Originally posted by tyranny22
We can not muster enough public support to warrant Washinton's attention. Most Americans will continue to abide by this countries downward spiral until it hits rock bottom and by that time it'll be too late. Anarchy will ensue.

It will be necessary for our leaders to over-step their Constitutional limits before the majority gets wise. That "crime" will be the "proof" that most will need to see what we've been seening for a long time. Once they see that we have kept the vigil, kept the faith, and been strong in our warnings all along, you'll get that support you want. Why is that necessary? if it goes down any other way, we risk having society turn on us and the people who think like we do.

Originally posted by tyranny22
If no one is willing to stand up and unite all that agree and organize an effort that can no longer be ignored, or stage an event to bring national attention to this cause, it'll never come about. The time has to be now because rock bottom isn't too far down the road.

Real patriots warn of disaster. They don't provoke it. In our case, we don't need to provoke "an event." This takeover is going to happen despite what we do. In spite of what we do. Can you imagine what would have happen if the people of Massacheusetts had revolted before things with Britain had boiled over? Imagine a scene in which George Washington had to hunt rebels in Virginia? If anyone "acts" before the hammer comes down, they'll doom themselves and make it harder for the rest of us to make those reforms.

Justin, thanks for the links on the U2U. I'll definitely check it out.

But, as someone stated earlier: "Where do we draw the line?" At what point does it end? How do we know that we'll see it when it comes?

When 9/11 happened and the invasion of Iraq came about, there were people who objected to the invasion. However, I was not one of them. I was so dumbfounded by the 9/11 attack and thought, "If they have WMD, then invade and make us safe." I wasn't yet aware of all the inconsistancies of 9/11. They invaded other countries under false pretenses, enacted doctrines to revoke our rights and continue to commit such atrocities across the globe with, what appears to be, the approval of Average Joe.

What else is it going to take? A nuclear attack that is blamed on Iran? People will have the wool pulled over their eyes once again. I beleive they can keep the masses blinded until the country as a whole is rotted and there is but a shell left for us to try to re-assemble.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by tyranny22]

Nice Post I will Be keeping an eye on this.

$50 dollars says FBI & Secret Service are on this guy like white on rice
another $50 says if you write or comment on the video you will be added to the list. America wake up a noble goal...America is the SLOWLY BOILING FROG
You would jump if they did these things all at once but a bit at a time and you hardly notice...CONDITIONED to accept authority.
BUSH NEEDS TO BE ARRESTED along with his entire Executive for failing to protect the Constitution as he swore an oath to do.
Enemy's both foreign and domestic..to my mind Cheney and Rumsfeld's conduct along with Bush rises to the level of TREASON.

Here are the words from a guy that MIGHT know something about putting together a government, and how to run one.

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

Here's another one.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” (Quoting Cesare Beccaria)

And Lastly,
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.

Those words were spoken by Thomas Jefferson.

Originally posted by observe50
I\'m not into guns but haven\'t they been trying to get guns done away with here in the states.

I do think people have a right to have them and we can't let them take that right away. It will lead the people more toward that Nazi life they are attempting to push forward. Don\'t get chipped and don\'t do the ID card. Stand up and fight for your rights when they try to pull anything.

Stand up for what American was meant to be not what they are trying to make it, HELLo vote me in.

If you think that they haven't been trying to eliminate private gun ownership than you haven't been paying very close attention. Ever hear of the Brady Bill ? Ever hear of Ted Kennedy, Hillary and their liberal friends.

The only reason we still have any gun rights is that there a large number of pro-gun groups that are willing to work hard to maintain those rights

Privately ownd guns are one of the last things preventing ever increasing infringment on our rights.

I am certainly not espousing an armed revolt. A lot can still be done by staying active in watching our govt. Gun rights people have shown that organized lobbying and support of the proper candidates can be very effective in promoting your legilative plans. But it takes orginization and a lot of work and most Americans are not willing to do this.

Some may feel I'm a gun nut and I guess that is your right. It is also my right to feel that many of you talk the talk but are unwilling to walk the walk. I presently own an AR-15 (M-16) two 30-06 rifles, a 30-30 and two .22s. I also have several hand guns: two .45 cal,three 40Cal, a 9 millimeter a .38 and a .32. I also own two shotguns. I have always bought my ammunition in bulk for all my guns and probably have 7000 to 8000 rounds of of various loads. I do my own reloading for my shotguns and have the materials on hand for a few thousand shells.

I am a law abiding citizen. I have a CCW to carry my handguns and enjoy shooting them at the range. I'm a hunter so that explains some of my guns. I also realize that the police can't protect you from violence. The best they can do is draw a chalk line around your body and try to capture your assailant. So I have decided to take care of myself. I have taken numerous self defense classes and been taught how to use my weapons to their maximum effectiveness.

I have guns for three purposes
1. Self Defense
2. Hunting and
3. To insure that my Govt. doesn't decide to take away my rights.

I do know that if we don't continue to fight to maintain our Constitutional rights that one by one they will be lost. The first one to go will be 'The Right To Bear Arms". That will make the others much easier to take.

I will continue to be a good citizen. I will pay my taxes (eventhough I don't agree with them" and will follow the law of the land to the best of my ability.

The day they show up to take my guns will signify ,to me, the beginning of the end. They will not leave my house with a single gun before I am dead. I honestly believe that left unchecked, that day will come.

The alternative is for everyone to decide to give a s#@t get up off their butts and fight to insure are rights are maintained.

As I said earlier it is going take more than talking the talk to get it done.

Poor Americans! Stand up before it is too late as it was for us in Germany.

The Jews are at work again.

I haven't found any clues that the guy is Jewish, but he supports Aaron Russo who is a jew:

www.vote-smart.org...

Aaron Russo is the manager of Jewish Actors Betty Midler and Dan Aykroyd.

Aaron Russo has interviewed Rockfeller (another well known Jew).

You know what the Jews are doing right now? they are trying to create a civil war situation in USA. They spread videos like these to make the conservatives start thinking about war, while on the democratic camp they support gay marriage, free drugs and God knows what else.

Sleep well y'all!

(and before you call me a Nazi bastard, go ahead and verify the above facts. The internet is your friend).

(by the way, if the Federal Reserve is controlled by private banks, who controls those banks? rhetorical question...)

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
It seems to me the abolition of guns in America is absolutely inevitable and probably a good idea.

You are so brave to bash the 2nd, to say that you are not an American and you don’t have guns in your country and are therefore morally superior, yet you are not brave enough to put your real location in your mini profile?

Where are you from, tough guy?

I am going to assume, since I cannot find the night garden in an atlas and you reference Wales, that you are from the UK.

If I am right, then you must have been asleep in history class.

How can a Brit tell an American we don’t need guns to protect ourselves? I seem to remember we showed our government (now your government) over 200 years ago what happens when people try to take American guns away.

A Brit saying Americans don’t need guns to protect ourselves from an evil government

You have a lot of nerve.

Less tea, more history books.



PS: viva la revolution!


[edit on 18-7-2007 by cavscout]

Originally posted by pyrolimeade
I laughed at this. The argument of money not being backed by silver or gold is meaningless. Nothing has any worth. To think that silver is magically "worth more" than paper is to think that orange is "worth more" than green.

Man are you on the target with that! What a paradigm shift...What would you do if you could? Well you can Why are you not doing it?

Have a good look at this pack of political lies told by scum of the earth :

The Most Popular YOUTUBE Video EVER :



and wonder what kind of crooked mechanism, still keeps these persons in power positions.

Yes, you guessed it right.
A corporate elite who sold their souls to the profits of endless wars on other peoples soil.

Those of you who would like to dabble in the darker side of this might try having a look at this.

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
It seems to me the abolition of guns in America is absolutely inevitable and probably a good idea.

I am going to assume, since I cannot find the night garden in an atlas and you reference Wales, that you are from the UK.

If I am right, then you must have been asleep in history class.

How can a Brit tell an American we don’t need guns to protect ourselves? I seem to remember we showed our government (now your government) over 200 years ago what happens when people try to take American guns away.

PS: viva la revolution!

[edit on 18-7-2007 by cavscout]

The Brit should also remember that while Scotland, Endland, Whales and N Ireland cannot have guns, and often have "knife amnesty" programs....

The UK has one of the highest crime rates in the world per % of population .. and if you want to be specific, Scotland is the most violent.

But hey, its not guns right?

Aside from that, I like the movie, but because I know this thread is watched thats all that needs to be said.

People need a leader, where they get one will be fate.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
but because I know this thread is watched thats all that needs to be said.

People need a leader, where they get one will be fate.

Well if that is your concern, then you said one thread too much already.

I quit being worried about that sort of thing long ago. I fought my war, I am done with fighting, they can watch me all they want. Now all thats left is to find a nice place in the middle of nowhere that I can go unnoticed, but I guess ATS will always show the way to my house.

Thanks a lot, Simon.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The UK has one of the highest crime rates in the world per % of population .. and if you want to be specific, Scotland is the most violent.

Like I posted before, if anyone thinks less guns equates to less violent crime, they've not been made aware of the facts, of case histories. Less people go around shooting when more people have their own guns to shoot back with. That's a more accurate underlying pattern of behavior, and when you give up your guns, you're giving up personal protection.

The guys that want you all to give up your most efficient means of physical protection, are not on your side.

I don’t think it would do to make this all about guns.

Even though I kind of helped start that downhill argument, maybe we should get off it?

Horrible to end such good conversation by delving into the finer points of gun control, even if every single poster is afraid to post what they really think about the original topic.

Originally posted by cavscout
Horrible to end such good conversation by delving into the finer points of gun control, even if every single poster is afraid to post what they really think about the original topic.

I see. Well, then. I guess I'm done here.

I think people are afraid to post on this subject..

Remember when they open the camps.. we will be the 1st people there cause of our views on things...

At least i can get a shirt that says:

"I went to the camp in Pa and all I got is a stupid death sentence and this crappy shirt."

[edit on 7/18/2007 by ThichHeaded]