Let's speculate about what happened to the passengers of flight 93?

Originally posted by thedman

A second plane, described “as a small, white jet with rear engines and no discernible markings,” is seen by at least nine witnesses flying low and in erratic patterns, not much above treetop level, over the crash site within minutes of the United flight crashing. [Independent, 8/13/2002]

Tom Spinelli: “I saw the white plane. It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash.” [Mirror, 9/12/2002] The FBI later says this was a Fairchild Falcon 20 business jet, directed after the crash to fly from 37,000 feet to 5,000 feet and obtain the coordinates for the crash site to help rescuers. [Pittsburgh Channel, 9/15/2001; Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/16/2001]

Above quotes from Cooperative Research

www.cooperativeresearch.org...

"It was really still for a second,” she said. "Then all of a sudden” she saw a “very quiet” and low-flying white “military” plane coming from the area of the crash site, flying toward the northwest. - Viola Saylor resident of Lambertsville

“It was flying very fast, like it was trying to get out of here,” she said. “A second or two” behind the “military” plane were two other planes, which Saylor described as “normal” planes.

Source

There is a possibility that this military plane was painted to disquise itself as a civilian plane. By witness testimonies it states that it was trying to get out of there, doesn't seem like the plane looking for the crash site. Also the witness explains there were 2 other planes which were "normal" planes.

BeZerK

By witness testimonies keep in mind. These witnesses are civilians and probably have no experience in the aviation and aeronautical industries so they probably would not understand what's going on with aircraft.

I believe that the Falcon 20 could in fact have been mistaken for an A10, there are several General Aviation and Private Corporation Aircraft that look similar and share similar features to the A10 (except for the gun cannon running the length of the aircraft). It is in fact very likely that the pilots in one aircraft will be asked to fly down close to a crash site and confirm something like this. I'm sure there have been other incidents in aviation history when pilots of other aircraft have been asked to assist in emergencies.

One example I can think of is when a 767 flying from New Zealand to Australia was vectored away from it's original flight plan and the pilots were asked to assist a small Cessna that was lost in a Thunderstorm and running low on fuel. They accepted and fortunately with the help of the 767 the Cessna made it safely to a runway and no one died that day.

Once again it is not very strange to hear of another aircraft diverting from it's original flight to help out.

Shattered OUT...

They could be on the Moon or on Mars
JM$0.02
I am not joking by the way.. It is just a theory. No offence meant to anyone.

[edit on 28-6-2007 by Fowl Play]

Body parts were found. Small, small, small peices of flesh and bone.

Originally posted by BeZerk

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Does blood survive in a liquid state from a crash that severe? What about the blood from people in the Everglades crash... did the coroner see their blood?

That's a totally legit question I simply don't know, but it's the very first crash similar to this in a few respects that I could pick off from the top of my head.

Also I made no reference to the voice over technology, only to the idea that an extra effort was made to kill about 50 or so people when simply they could have just been killed in the plane crash and saved the extra man hours.

However, I see a fine line between domestic terrorism and war.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 27-6-2007 by ShatteredSkies]

I am not sure about your question, but using a bit of logic one can conclude that if the FBI can find a passport which is made from paper, or find Identification and other fragile elements, then im pretty sure they should have found at least a few remains of the passengers on board.

This is often the case with plane crashes there are always some remains of passengers.

BeZerK

Body parts were found.....small pieces of flesh and bone.

Originally posted by thedman
As for "mythical" A-10 Warthog, plane seen near crash site was Falcon
business jet owned by VF Corp (which makes Wrangler Jeans). Plane
was coming into Johnstown airport when FAA asked them to make pass
and confirm crash scene. Falcon jets have twin rear mounted engines
near the tail. Looks similar to A-10 which also have 2 rear mounted
engines at tail. For someone not familar with aircraft identification is
very likely to mistake the two aircraft.

But wasn't the Johnstown tower evacuated ? So how was it going into Johnstown ?

Originally posted by mijimbo

Originally posted by BeZerk

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Does blood survive in a liquid state from a crash that severe? What about the blood from people in the Everglades crash... did the coroner see their blood?

That's a totally legit question I simply don't know, but it's the very first crash similar to this in a few respects that I could pick off from the top of my head.

Also I made no reference to the voice over technology, only to the idea that an extra effort was made to kill about 50 or so people when simply they could have just been killed in the plane crash and saved the extra man hours.

However, I see a fine line between domestic terrorism and war.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 27-6-2007 by ShatteredSkies]

I am not sure about your question, but using a bit of logic one can conclude that if the FBI can find a passport which is made from paper, or find Identification and other fragile elements, then im pretty sure they should have found at least a few remains of the passengers on board.

This is often the case with plane crashes there are always some remains of passengers.

BeZerK

Body parts were found.....small pieces of flesh and bone.

Do you have evidence of this or is it just based on assumption?

BeZerK

As I said in earlier post as member of fire department (and still member)
had to walk crash scene of Lear business jet and mark body parts for coroner. Found few pieces identifiable as human - most were scraps
of flesh - "human hamburger"

Originally posted by thedman
As I said in earlier post as member of fire department (and still member)
had to walk crash scene of Lear business jet and mark body parts for coroner. Found few pieces identifiable as human - most were scraps
of flesh - "human hamburger"

I don't mean to sound rude, but there are alot of so called "phonies" in here, its just hard for me to believe that.

Do you have anything in relation to evidence of News crew mentioning they found body parts etc?

BeZerK

Originally posted by mijimbo

Originally posted by BeZerk
Body parts were found.....small pieces of flesh and bone.

Do you have evidence of this or is it just based on assumption?

BeZerK

Contact the coroners office. They can tell you what they found.

*Trimmed large quote*

[edit on 29-6-2007 by dbates]

Air trafiic controllers admit F-16 was in hot pusuit of Flight 93.

USA - SEPT. 11 JETS ALMOST COLLIDED BEFORE HITTING TWIN TOWERS (JUN 06/NASHTEL)
NASHUA TELEGRAPH -- A Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) employee who works at the Nashua, N.H., control facility said the jetliners hijacked on Sept. 11 almost hit each other before striking the World Trade Center in New York, the Nashua Telegraph reports. "The two aircraft got too close to each other down by Stewart [International Airport]," in New Windsor, N.Y., said one FAA employee. Air traffic controllers also said that at least one F-16 fighter was in hot pursuit of the third hijacked airliner before it crashed in Pennsylvania. The controllers said that at one point the F-16 made 360-degree turns to stay close to the slower moving commercial jetliner.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
By witness testimonies keep in mind. These witnesses are civilians and probably have no experience in the aviation and aeronautical industries so they probably would not understand what's going on with aircraft.

I believe that the Falcon 20 could in fact have been mistaken for an A10, there are several General Aviation and Private Corporation Aircraft that look similar and share similar features to the A10 (except for the gun cannon running the length of the aircraft). It is in fact very likely that the pilots in one aircraft will be asked to fly down close to a crash site and confirm something like this. I'm sure there have been other incidents in aviation history when pilots of other aircraft have been asked to assist in emergencies.

One example I can think of is when a 767 flying from New Zealand to Australia was vectored away from it's original flight plan and the pilots were asked to assist a small Cessna that was lost in a Thunderstorm and running low on fuel. They accepted and fortunately with the help of the 767 the Cessna made it safely to a runway and no one died that day.

Once again it is not very strange to hear of another aircraft diverting from it's original flight to help out.

Shattered OUT...

its finaly cleared up...the witnesses got confused counting to 3 doesn't everyone realize they need to bring america together. the big american hero story. it wasn't shot down THEY FOUGHT LIKE AMERICANS,THEY FOUGHT TO SAVE OUR NATIONAL TREASURES. on 9-11 we got a tradgedy,and something to rally around,the brave warriors of flight 93.
but ya know what bothers me? if these hijackers operate in such secrecy,why were they in the usa so long? there are flight schools in saudi arabia.why did they expose themselves to the scrutiny of all the federal agencys?why would they take the chance? wouldn't you go to flight school anywhere else in the world to avoid detection at all costs? being schooled in the u.s. creates some problems..visas,money being funneled in,questions of why they want to learn to fly and not land. seems a little suspicious to me being (accordng to the government)highly organized and intelligent, that you would expose yourself to scrutiny. lets turn the brains on out there. does the good old government story really fit anywhere except up our butts?

*Snip*

Mod Edit - Removed Off Topic/Inappropriate Content

9/11 Forum Now Under Close Scrutiny

[edit on 6/29/07 by niteboy82]

Wallace Miller, the coroner of Somerset County, is one of the first people to arrive at the Flight 93 crash scene. However, he is surprised by the absence of human remains there. He later says, “If you didn’t know, you would have thought no one was on the plane. You would have thought they dropped them off somewhere.” [Longman, 2002, pp. 217] The only recognizable body part he sees is a piece of spinal cord with five vertebrae attached. He will later tell Australian newspaper The Age, “I’ve seen a lot of highway fatalities where there’s fragmentation. The interesting thing about this particular case is that I haven’t, to this day, 11 months later, seen any single drop of blood. Not a drop.” [Age (Melbourne), 9/9/2002] Dave Fox, a former firefighter, also arrives early at the crash scene, but sees just three chunks of human tissue. He says, “You knew there were people there, but you couldn’t see them.” [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 9/11/2002] Yet, in the following weeks, hundreds of searchers are able to find about 1,500 scorched human tissue samples, weighing less than 600 pounds—approximately eight percent of the total body mass on Flight 93. Months after 9/11, more remains are found in a secluded cabin, several hundred yards from the crash site

Above is response to the tin foil types who deny the existence of bodies
at Flight 93 crash scene.

Jim, I believe the reason that the terrorists went to flight schools in the US is because there is no other place in the world that has the same general aviation characteristics and freedoms as the US does. Pre 9/11, it was pretty easy to get a pilot's license. Only after 9/11 were TSA checks and several background checks required in order to even solo.

General Aviation was dramatically changed after 9/11 no doubt about it.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by mijimbo

Originally posted by mijimbo

Originally posted by BeZerk
Body parts were found.....small pieces of flesh and bone.

Do you have evidence of this or is it just based on assumption?

BeZerK

Contact the coroners office. They can tell you what they found.

*Trimmed large quote*

[edit on 29-6-2007 by dbates]

No, you claimed that small pieces of flesh and bone were found, please back up, with evidence, your claim.

BeZerK

Originally posted by BeZerk

No, you claimed that small pieces of flesh and bone were found, please back up, with evidence, your claim.

BeZerK

BeZerk, skeptic typically have proof to support their theories. (TYPICALLY) Truthers seems not to follow this same logic. that being said...here is some evidence that shows that 102 DNA analysts took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well.

Wallace Miller, Somerset County coroner, says human remains were confined to a 70-acre area directly surrounding the crash site.

He also states:
“There were pieces of people. Trust me. I cleaned it up. The plane hit the ground doing 575 miles per hour. The rest of the remains were vaporized on impact. But we did ID everyone onboard."

www.popularmechanics.com...
www.freetimes.com...
www.post-gazette.com...
www.dcmilitary.com...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
BeZerk, skeptic typically have proof to support their theories. (TYPICALLY) Truthers seems not to follow this same logic. that being said...here is some evidence that shows that 102 DNA analysts took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well.

Problem is that back in 2001 we did not have good DNA testing to test bodies that had been badliy burned or destryed.

NIST DNA experts had to come up with new testing just for 9/11. These new test were not ready untill 2002, after they stated they had identified everyone.

www.nist.gov...

How did you get involved in the WTC ID project?

Due to the nature of the World Trade Center disaster, it quickly became evident that traditional methods for performing DNA typing were not likely to be fully successful in identifying all of the recovered remains. Traditional DNA ID methods depend on the presence of long, intact segments of DNA in order to accurately type the sample. The DNA in many of the samples recovered in this situation were so fragmented that these standard methods were ineffective.

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Ultima...if you have researched this.... when was it announced that all the DNA was infact identified?

If not, I will look around and see.

January 2002 is only 4 months later.

Thank you,
MO

What does it matter what DNA methods existed at the time, wasn't the original point made that body parts were in fact found at the crash site?

So really should the DNA tests matter?

Shattered OUT...