"The Black Man, Is Crazy!"

Originally posted by SatansQue
Truthseeka, it is a fact that colored people collectively, didn't begin calling themselves black until the early 30s, culminating in 60s. This is just a fact. Sorry if facts don't fit into your world view.

It's really like explaining sexual selection to a mole cricket. The first group of people who made a big deal about melanin content was Europeans. They got this mentality from the Portugese and Spanish, who held a grudge against black people because of the Moorish conquest.

Black Americans then took the label centuries later, but what do you expect when the only culture you have a significant base for is the dominant culture?

Show me, in any language of your chosing, a definition of the word black, that doesn't have a negative connotation. Can you please do this for me?

Pay attention. I already mentioned "negrito/a" in Latin countries.

Being picky over a word? Words have meanings my friend. And if the actions of people who defined themselves as black, match the definition of the word, IN ANY LANGUAGE, then I'm not just being picky.

You spew a stereotype once again. What's with the self-loathing?

"no matter what whites may say". So the "white man" is the motivation, the springboard. The "white man's" attitude is what drove people of color to define themselves as that, which the "white man" meant as an insult.

I'm not surprised you can't understand this. BTW, when blacks and whites first met, blacks were revered. Understandably so, as they laid the foundation for Western civilization. Of course, all this is lost on you, undoubtedly.

I really don't know where you got the idea that I was chosing white over black? You're obsessed with "white".

I have a response for this for another post.

Actually truthseeka, the current useage of the word "Black" by "Blacks" IS semantics by definition, because it is both a historical, and psycological change of the original meaning of the word. Black had nothing to do with people, because the word described a reality before anything existed.

Man, you are so clueless. Your insistence that "black" is only an insult shows your ignorance as well as your self-hate. Centuries ago, Arabs called Africans black. It was no insult, it was merely a descriptive term. In fact, an Arab scholar wrote a book that translated as "The Glory of the Black Man over the White Man."

You should really learn something before you expand your self-hate to black people.

Again, this is all you.

But on a spiritual level - the body, regardless of race, or color is actually a hinderence to identifying with the light. The Light of God, resides in us all. Now just because on a physical level people want to place themselves higher, or believe that it makes them more endearing to the Source of Light, by being "White" doesn't make it so.

What? I used the same logic you did when you referenced your Christian mythology. Therefore, it makes as much sense as your reference, which is none. That OBVIOUSLY went way over your head.

Of course you can say anything you want. But this whole topic has nothing to do with comparisons between white and black. I can't help you with your obvious, psycological inferiority complex to "Whites".

Once again, you can do it but I can't. You're just making this up as you go.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Glory days? You mean the days you never lived, but read about? Of course I have no idea what you're talking about. But if your reference is to Africa, people were called themselves, Nigerian, Congolese, Sinagalese, not Black. The only people who called them black, were outsiders who meant it as an insult. The only race of people in the history of humankind to call themselves black, are the american Negroes.

You REALLY need to learn something. I've already told you that Arabs called Africans black as a descriptor, but you need me to hold your hand a bit longer, I see.

The Greeks and Romans called Africans black, as it was customary to call someone something that described them. If you were big, it was a size reference. For Africans, it was a skin color reference. Clitus Niger, African foster brother of Alexander the Great (another example of labeling), is a prime example.

Hate to break it to you (ok, I actually enjoy it), but your delusions conflict remarkably with reality.

It's poisoning their communities terribly. But you know, they can play at being "Black" and ignorant, and then move on.

OOOOOOH! So, white kids understand the difference between life and art, but black kids don't? And I'M the one who feels whites are superior to blacks?

Get a dictionary - in any language. Read the definition, and justify.

We're talking about REALITY, not Satansque's world. REALITY shows no definition of crazy as "calling yourself black."

Simply... amazing!

You started out saying that black people are crazy, you then said that blacks can't tell the difference between life and art, and then you said that whites can tell the difference between life and art. Shoe fits you nicely.

All of these are your words.

But the ugly came out, as it often does when "Black" youths gather in groups.

Funny thing about "Black" people, man they sure do hate each other.

Add to this, the fact that 95-97% of all the Black people murdered in America, are murdered by "Blacks" and everything begins to make perfect sense as to why "Black" people are so damn crazy - because they are "Black".

If 20 or more black youths gather here, for any reason, somebody is going to get stabbed or shot.

Black culture looks more and more like a contruct designed to mimick white racist ideology, as it pertains to the hatred of Blacks.

Where young "Black" children will walk down the street eating or drinking whatever, and carelessly drop the containers on the street, without so much as a thought in their brains.

Straight from your keyboard. Tsk tsk tsk, straight from your keyboard.:shk:

truthseeka,

I understand where you are coming from, and I'm as glad to read your posts, as I'm glad SQ brought up this thread...you bring up a lot of points, and also give others a lot of chances to say even more, through your points...

But, honestly, you're getting personal in your rebuttals, which to the objective reader makes you seem a little, uh...defensive, especially when valid points have been brought up which you haven't adressed. Not one. Meaning, acknowledging a certain situation in the first place...the reasons for this situation are debatable, but you don't even acknowledge the situation - being that "Black" America is not in a very healthy state...or their image, still.

We have had the chance to prove ourselves, and what are we doing, actually? What kind of an image have we built for ourselves? Have you ever lived outside the States, and soaked up others opinions on black people, based on their own portrayals of themselves? This is not just an 'American' issue but a global one. Everyone looks to the States for the definition of a 'black' person, and the black race. It's the only place on this planet where 'blacks' are free to show who they are - they even have their own universities, just for their race! You all are so busy cataloguing the negatives, that you can't see the positives - that you are free. But like good slaves, I guess you all can't handle freedom too well.

And guess what other people in other countries see, considering most don't have access to Oprah, but they do have MTV. There are still many people on this planet who have never seen colored people in person. Many.
When I grew up in Germany, I was the only colored person in my village, in my school, within my circle of friends, in the world, as far as I could tell, besides my Mom.

I was the only 'black' person some people saw all their lives. Imagine that. No, I am not an Army brat, no military connections whatsoever. The racism some americans complain about, I laugh at. This generation has no idea, what true racism is. None. America is way too educated to be racist. Willfully ignorant, yes, no doubt. I find "Blacks" to be more willfully and actively ignorant, than others they complain about. Especially against their own.

'Black' people nowadays don't get that more people have a problem with their perceived and portrayed MENTALITY than with actual skin colour. Most whites I know could care less in the end, just like anybody else. But even many colored, like me, are disappointed in the endless stream of drama, and garbage. Especially when this is packaged as the so-called black culture. That is not my culture.

Of course you never hear about the positives, they are taken for granted, and you only hear about the negatives..that is true. And considering, the black community tends to villify everyone who has 'made it' as selling out on the way, the ones who have 'made it' tend to be pretty quiet, if they don't have to be in the public eye. Those in the public eye that have made it, better not forget their 'roots', and never ever, in one interview, forget to show that through a little slip in the language once in awhile.

As to the actual calling of ' black'...it's pretty obvious that language influences mentality and vice versa. If you speak a language that has negative connotations for a certain word, anything with that word is also perceived as negative. so if you call yourself something negative constantly, joke or not, sooner or later you reap the results.
Your subconscious doesn't joke, and doesn't understand sarcasm...do the following. Think of all these words that are just adjectives...fat, lazy, slobby - they have no meaning, besides the meaning we assign to them. They are just adjectives. They just describe something. Fat is usually negative if associated with people, but elsewhere, it is neutral, like "a fat rope". It can be positive : a fat and juicy pear, a fat leg of mutton, etc.

Do you understand?

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by SatansQue
I really don't know where you got the idea that I was chosing white over black? You're obsessed with "white".

I have a response for this for another post.

And in your response, you don't mention "white" at all. You take several of SQ's quotes where he talks about "black", but he never mentions or insinuates that he chooses white over black.

Truthseeka, you carry an inherent assumption that "white" is somehow the opposition of "black" when talking about race. Caucasian is no more the opposite of African American than green is the opposite of blue or wind is the opposite of rain or Arab is the opposite of Swedish. Only in the mind of someone who pits the two races against each other are they opposites.

Those of us who see them standing alone don't see them as opposites or at war with each other.

Originally posted by SatansQue
So the "white man" is the motivation, the springboard. The "white man's" attitude is what drove people of color to define themselves as that, which the "white man" meant as an insult.

Excellent! If a person can only define themselves in relation to another kind of person; in reaction or response to another person's views, they don't stand alone as themselves. They will always be defined as compared to something else.

Originally posted by SatansQue
But this whole topic has nothing to do with comparisons between white and black.

Some people can't get this concept. I think it's time people of color stop using tan people as a springboard to define themselves. Call yourself "black" if you like, but thinking it's the opposite of white (in racial terms) is a mistake.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Like I said, self-hater. Just because YOU don't understand the difference between reality and fantasy doesn't mean I share your sentiments. You should look into skin bleaching; I hear it's a billion-dollar industry.

Ahhh... and so we stoop to the lowest common denominator. :shk:

Originally posted by truthseeka
Then again, you're not "black," so I guess you ARE racist, then?

Edit to Add: I realize I misinterpreted this statement of truthseeka's, so I am removing my response to it.

I really hate to see such a good discussion disintegrate like this. I hope we can haul it back out of the name-calling, angry gutter.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Soraia
But, honestly, you're getting personal in your rebuttals, which to the objective reader makes you seem a little, uh...defensive, especially when valid points have been brought up which you haven't adressed. Not one. Meaning, acknowledging a certain situation in the first place...the reasons for this situation are debatable, but you don't even acknowledge the situation - being that "Black" America is not in a very healthy state...or their image, still.

Why shouldn't I be defensive? This...guy comes here and says that black men are crazy, and if you identify yourself as black you're nothing. Members of my fam, my black friends, and I are on some positive stuff in our lives, but this...guy just calls us all evil because of how we identify ourselves.

And your last point is flat out wrong. Only a fool would say nothing's wrong with Black America, but only a fool would also say that the problems stem from the term "black."

We have had the chance to prove ourselves, and what are we doing, actually? What kind of an image have we built for ourselves? Have you ever lived outside the States, and soaked up others opinions on black people, based on their own portrayals of themselves? This is not just an 'American' issue but a global one. Everyone looks to the States for the definition of a 'black' person, and the black race. It's the only place on this planet where 'blacks' are free to show who they are - they even have their own universities, just for their race! You all are so busy cataloguing the negatives, that you can't see the positives - that you are free. But like good slaves, I guess you all can't handle freedom too well.

What are you talking about? Prove ourselves to who? You also apparently don't know that the current view of black people pales in comparison to the view of antiquity. But, you prefer the view of the last 500 years...to each their own, I guess.

And what's with the "good slaves" stuff? The problem with you and many other black people not from America is that you're jealous of us black Americans. Even as you talk about the negative black images from stuff like hip hop, you're jealous of all the money the rappers have. Hell, you're even jealous of what black Americans in the middle class have.

And you talk about worldwide perception. Who cares? If you take your views on people from the media, too bad for you. The media is heavily biased in many aspects. The one relevant to this context is how you'll see a black American as a criminal or an athlete WAY before you'll see us as a businessman or a scientist. Those of us who are successful in areas like education and business are ignored by the media. This is so viewers like you can pigeonhole black Americans on this type of level in with gangstas and criminals; keep an eye on your TV, you'll get PLENTY of these depictions.

'Black' people nowadays don't get that more people have a problem with their perceived and portrayed MENTALITY than with actual skin colour. Most whites I know could care less in the end, just like anybody else. But even many colored, like me, are disappointed in the endless stream of drama, and garbage. Especially when this is packaged as the so-called black culture. That is not my culture.

Just keep lumping us all in with poor people from the hood. It really helps your case.

Of course you never hear about the positives, they are taken for granted, and you only hear about the negatives..that is true. And considering, the black community tends to villify everyone who has 'made it' as selling out on the way, the ones who have 'made it' tend to be pretty quiet, if they don't have to be in the public eye. Those in the public eye that have made it, better not forget their 'roots', and never ever, in one interview, forget to show that through a little slip in the language once in awhile.

I've seen this garbage enough times to come to expect it. EVERYONE from the hood encouraged me to further my education. Same with other people going places. They didn't tell us to stay in the streets because that's where we belong. They told us to shoot for the top, they told us to make it. You shouldn't talk about things you know little about in such an absolute way.

The people who are criticized as sellouts actually ARE sellouts. Wow, what a concept. If this were actually true, every single black person that "made it" would be hated by the black community. As this is clearly not the case, this is yet another example of you running your mouth about that which you don't know much about.

As to the actual calling of ' black'...it's pretty obvious that language influences mentality and vice versa...Do you understand?

So...

A black person who commits a crime is constantly thinking "oh, I'm SOOO black and evil" while they do it? What do non-blacks think as they commit a crime? Better yet, the average black person is thinking "yeah, I'm SO black, black like evil, I'm black and I'm bad, I'm black and I'm SO evil."

Get OUTTA here with that nonsense. Seriously, you and Satan's arguments about black make absolutely NO sense. By this logic, white people will commit no crimes, be benevolent towards all, etc., because they call themselves white. Because white has so many good connotations, if you call yourself white, you will be pure and innocent, never to do a foul deed.

And y'all actually believe this stuff...tell you what, why don't you and Satan let me know if what I said about the white label is just as valid as what y'all say about the black label.

truthseeka,

I posted in my earlier posts that I had the good fortune to grow up on both continents, so I do know what I'm talking about. I am able to make comparisons.

I had the luck to come from a very affluent background, which I have managed to maintain, so there is no jealousy here, lol.

Many colored I have met from other countries weren't jealous either, if anything, they were worried about the direction of development.

You have obviously missed my point about people looking towards America, whether you like it or not, for the image of free black people.

The villifying I have seen with my own eyes happen to others, and experienced myself. Maybe you're just not high up enough yet - and maybe you are still within your native community. Move away, and meet people who know nothing of your struggles. And don't tell them about your struggles, just enjoy your success - lol. And give no signs, that you are a part of the community - dress differently, think differently, speak differently.

So in a nutshell, all you have to say is that I and other non-Americans are jealous of rich rappers, and that is why we criticize? I guess in your mind only american rappers are rich, lol, and everyone wants a 'bling' lifestyle?

I dunno, I think I pulled something completely different from what SQ was saying. But then again, I am trying to listen to everyone...

Uhm..as to the media...yes definitely, I agree. But then again, growing up, I didn't see any shows from Asia, or so. It's not just black people...

But against racism there were a lot of shows - to this day actually, dealing with Germany's history and their struggle to come to grips with it. They are doing everything NOT to forget. I can't say their programming was racist. Some of the travel shows were, subtly, but not many, and not all. Those that were were few and far between, as far as I could tell.

Actually, growing up in late 80's-90's Germany, I was less fully aware of my race as in North America, to be honest. In Germany I just was, and I happened to be black. Here, I am a Black Woman. Actually, I should have that put beneath my Avatar, because it is what defines me here, and which community I belong to, lol. Proud to be Black.

My views are not from 500 years ago, they are from my current observations and experiences. If I had experienced other things, I would have had other things to say.

And as to the view of black people in antiquity, that is a whole other thread, in which you probably wouldn't agree with me either.

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Soraia]

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Soraia]

Originally posted by Soraia
I had the luck to come from a very affluent background, which I have managed to maintain, so there is no jealousy here, lol.

I see. The hood is FULL of affluent people, I forgot about that.

The villifying I have seen with my own eyes happen to others, and experienced myself. Maybe you're just not high up enough yet - and maybe you are still within your native community. Move away, and meet people who know nothing of your struggles. And don't tell them about your struggles, just enjoy your success - lol. And give no signs, that you are a part of the community - dress differently, think differently, speak differently.

When I travel, I don't think about this kind of stuff. And the next time I leave the country, I STILL won't be worried about representing black America.

The US's image as a whole has now been ruined. I think numerous people worldwide hate Americans in general, and are not focused on black Americans.

So in a nutshell, all you have to say is that I and other non-Americans are jealous of rich rappers, and that is why we criticize? I guess in your mind only american rappers are rich, lol, and everyone wants a 'bling' lifestyle?

I notice you omitted the other part of my post. Not surprised, though.

Uhm..as to the media...yes definitely, I agree. But then again, growing up, I didn't see any shows from Asia, or so. It's not just black people...

So Asians didn't exist in your world view, which you clearly get from the boob tube? I see.

The rest of your post didn't make sense, so no replies to that. But, I AM still waiting for your answer to my question about "white."

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by Soraia
I had the luck to come from a very affluent background, which I have managed to maintain, so there is no jealousy here, lol.

I see. The hood is FULL of affluent people, I forgot about that.

Why do you assume that I lie? Because I am fluent in english?

truthseeka

Soraia
The villifying I have seen with my own eyes happen to others, and experienced myself. Maybe you're just not high up enough yet - and maybe you are still within your native community. Move away, and meet people who know nothing of your struggles. And don't tell them about your struggles, just enjoy your success - lol. And give no signs, that you are a part of the community - dress differently, think differently, speak differently.

When I travel, I don't think about this kind of stuff. And the next time I leave the country, I STILL won't be worried about representing black America.

I didn't say travel, I said move. And you do think about it, otherwise you wouldn't be on here defending it.

truthseeka
The US's image as a whole has now been ruined. I think numerous people worldwide hate Americans in general, and are not focused on black Americans.

Who said they 'hated' Black Americans? Or that it ever was a major topic? I was talking about the perceived image through a certain portrayal. Or is this you assuming, because of what you feel?

truthseeka

Soraia
So in a nutshell, all you have to say is that I and other non-Americans are jealous of rich rappers, and that is why we criticize? I guess in your mind only american rappers are rich, lol, and everyone wants a 'bling' lifestyle?

I notice you omitted the other part of my post. Not surprised, though.

What other part of your post? The rest of your put-down?

truthseeka

Soraia
Uhm..as to the media...yes definitely, I agree. But then again, growing up, I didn't see any shows from Asia, or so. It's not just black people...

So Asians didn't exist in your world view, which you clearly get from the boob tube? I see.

Huh?????? You seem to be against a wall to be pulling this. Please re-read what you posted about media.

truthseeka
The rest of your post didn't make sense, so no replies to that. But, I AM still waiting for your answer to my question about "white."

What part did you choose not to understand? What you have been putting down here is exactly what I mean when I talk about willful ignorance...

As to "white", I already stated that white people have no issues with themselves, not to the extent that Black Americans do. They haven't conditioned themselves to that level of self-hatred. I guess you missed that part too..I haven't seen them on a grand-scale call themselves or their women in any derogatory way so that even people who don't even speak the language know what a 'ho' and a 'bitch' is...and that somehow it doesn't apply to White, Asian, Native American, Amazon Indian or even Aborigine women.