"The Black Man, Is Crazy!"

I have a thought on 'Black' people. Before I write it however, I will just say that my granddad is afro caribbean and I myself am mixed race.

I think that there are two types of black people. There are black people who are just people who happen to be black. They are smart, dumb, gay, straight, idiots, geniuses etc etc.

Then there are black people who seem to go out of their way to live up to the negative stereotype that all blacks are thugs, or all blacks are gangsters. Its THESE black people that I absolutely can't stand. They make me sick. After everything your people have been through, the struggle some of them have gone to to show that black people aren't savage you go and hang around in gangs and beat people up for no reason.

Chris Rock said it best when he said "There are black people, and there s ... the s have to go."

I think there are a multitude of factors involved in this. However, like someone else stated here, the hip hop culture, in my own personal view and as it currently stands, is a cancerous influence that absolutely MUST be addressed. A note of interest for me persoanlly: I have little girls and, like any father, watch over there development with fascination. What absolutely thrills me, however, is never once, EVER, have they commented on or referenced people by color, of any kind. Not even once! This innocence is so awesome to behold. It seems to demonstrate how pure we start our lives, just assessing people by who they are, individually. And so I'm droning....

Originally posted by Soraia
When will they stop, through their words, actions, deeds, putting down what our forefathers bled and died for, labelling them through their words, actions, deeds as ineffective and weak, unable to make a change?? It is blatant disrespect for the people that fought for what we would never have had without them.

Soraia,

Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. As I was reading your post, a picture taken during the Sanitation Workers strike in Memphis in 1968, immediately came to mind.



When I hear a "Black" man call another nigga, or dog, I see the faces of these men, and I litterally become filled with emotion to the point of tears. To imagine that there was a time when a colored man, just wanted to be thought of as a MAN and not as an animal, which is how many whites back in the day saw us. As less than human.

And this fits in perfectly with what you have said about the debt we owe to those men. Not just people of color, but the entire country, because when we as a society grow to respect each others as human beings first, then real growth can happen, based upon our shared experiences of living on this very soil together.

Notice the signs didn't say, "I am a Black man", just, "I am a man!"

Which also fits in with:

Originally posted by darkelf
The easiest way to destroy racism is to stop identifying ourselves by race. When race becomes a non-issue, then racism will die. My skin color or ancestral makeup have nothing to do with the person I am.

Originally posted by Soraia
DEBT goes both ways, if the white man has a debt to us, we have a debt to our forefathers to get it together, keep it together, and appreciate the massive steps that have been accomplished through their sacrifices.

I know this is going to sound like I have really just lost my mind, but to be honest, I don't believe the "White man" owes us a damn thing. At the time slavery existed in this country, the bottom line is that it was legel. Slavery, absolutely, is morally wrong, but as far as cheap labor was concerned, for a country in the process of building, the labor didn't get any cheaper than slave labor.

And from the moment slaves landed on this soil the whole debate began about ending it, but not before the slaves helped litterally build America. But the debt was paid when this country fought a war to end slavery. How many "White" Americans died to end slavery? Some estimate that as many as 700,000 died.
www.civilwarhome.com...

Yes, slaves fought along side free men, but the majority of the causualties were whites on both sides.

I've never understood the concept that just because of the Emancipation Proclamation, those Americans who were former slave owners, and racists, should all of a sudden want to become our best buddies. Till this day, in many parts of this country, of course there are whites who hate people of color, no matter what they have, or have not accomplished.

But for some reason people of color got the notion that it was, and still is important for the white man to feel our pain. For some reason it was important for people of color to feel like we are acceptable to the "White man". Like he is our daddy, and we needed his approval and love, as apposed to just getting on with the business of creating our own version of the American dream. Not expecting it to be easy either.

When we were colored, our parents used to tell us that it wasn't enough to be as good as our white counterparts, we had to be better to gain even a little ground.

But there is no letting go of the past for too many "Blacks". There is no moving forward. Meanwhile people from all around the world, even from lowly Mexico, (No insult intended) with litterally nothing but the clothes on their backs, have made lives for themselves and their families.

But the "Black" man keeps looking back. Building museums as monuments to our past pain - to slavery, as if this was or defining moment. Reminding our children of what happened 400 years ago, and of the accomplishments of dead men, as if it really is going to make a bit of difference in the quality of life we live today.

In Baltimore, and in many cities across this country, "Black" people are still slaves. Slaves to the drug dealers who have taken over the streets, and dictate their every movement within the community. Slaves to a caulous disregard for human life.

A few weeks ago 7 people were shot, just for being on the street when a car load of "Black" men drove up and sprayed the sidewalk with automatic gunfire, hitting children, the elderly, etc.

And they turn the people into Slaves, who refuse to cooperate with the police out of fear of retribution, cowering in the shadows of their apartments, trapped like animals, afraid. At least the Klu Klux Klan wore white sheets so the slaves and former slaves knew they were coming.

And there are modern day "Blacks" who live in some of the most deplorable conditions you have ever seen outside of a third world country. Litterally living in boarded up, rat infested, lead paint peeling from the walls apartments in northwest baltimore, that would make even the most run down slave quarters look like the Hilton.

And they turn their porches, sidewalks, and streets into garbage cans. Where young "Black" children will walk down the street eating or drinking whatever, and carelessly drop the containers on the street, without so much as a thought in their brains.

And they are Slaves to a distorted view of self, with pants down off the ass, and like Soraia mentioned, calling out a young "Black" woman across the street, graphically telling her for all the world to hear, what he wants to do to her in the bedroom, or in an alley if she let him - and her standing there listening to it, like she's hearing a love sonnet.

Good lord!

The only debt we owe, is to those men for whom the most important thing in life, was to be thought of as a man, and to act like we still are, and not dogs, or niggas.


[edit on 22-6-2007 by SatansQue]

SatansQue .... how did you get to be so sane and centred ? Wow -- you should be giving lessons, writing books and hosting your own show !

I can't remember the title of the thread: it was a couple of months ago now. But it was one of the often-heated, 'black-white' threads which featured so prominently in the boards of late.

In it, I raised the very same issue as you: that of the 'black' label.

" Black has negative connotations" I wrote. And: ' Who devised this 'black' label and manipulated people to adopt it ? ' And so on.

I listed those things which are commonly associated with the word 'black' and most of them were negative: 'Black as sin' for example, 'Black-hearted villain', ' Black' as opposed to 'white'. 'Black hatted' cowboys as 'bad-guys' compared with the 'white hatted' good guys. You know exactly what I was driving at, obviously.

Whoever persuaded people to identify as 'black', certainly wasn't doing 'black' people any favours ! It was a divisive agenda. Simplistic and insulting. Divide and conquer. Re-opening and ripping the scabs from wounds. Pitting 'black' against 'white', and completely ignoring the myriad shades between which obviously make the whole 'colour' issue irrelevant.

Why not 'brown' I asked? After all, brown is a popular colour and conjures visions of chocolate and cafe au lait, warmth, security, class, style.

I've never seen a 'black' person, I said, but I've seen people in every shade of brown, from rich and to golden.

Hey (I said) --- why don't those who've chosen to identify as 'black', *instead* decide that from now on, they're going to identify with the word 'golden' ? !!!

Can you imagine, I said, if instead of 'black youths', the media referred to 'several golden youths' ?



There's an adage which goes thus: ' Call a dog a bad name and it will live up to it '.

And that was *known* full well by those who connived and manipulated a sector of the community to identify with the word 'black'. Because by convincing people to identify as 'black' *also* persuaded them to subconsciously identify with all the negative connotations re: the word 'black'.

Surely it's not coincidence that the Afro-American community has begun to unravel from almost the precise moment it was persuaded to identify as 'black' ?

And it can't be coincidence either that the media these days choses to feature predominantly negative 'black' behaviours, rather than the tens of thousands of normal, decent, hard-working Afro Americans ?

What do they do, I wonder? How do all those upstanding Afro American families cope with the flood of 'black gangsta' reports in the media?

They must be asking themselves: " What more can we do? What more do we *have* to do? We pay our bills. Our children are high achievers. We maintain our lovely home to high standard and work in responsible positions. Yet to judge by the media's nightly outpouring, the Afro American community is comprised totally of welfare abusers, pimps, whores, single mothers, rapists and morons with their jeans down around their ankles ! "

After 400 years in the US, Afro Americans are *Americans*. And until a few decades ago, this was pretty much the case --- until the Usual Suspects devised their 'black' slogans as a way of turning back the tide to the divisive attitudes of yore.

Who benefits? Who benefits from all this labelling? Not Afro Americans, nor the millions of Americans who're descended from Polish, German, Irish, Scottish, French, Latin, Dutch, British etc. ancestors.

We all *know* this, but for some reason we keep taking our eye off the ball and thus allow ourselves to forget the trite but true: 'United we stand -- Divided we Fall'.

And WHY haven't the Usual Suspects been badgering Congress to cite the term 'Black American' as Hate Speech ???? Because it sounds like hate-speech and self-defeating propaganda to me. Sounds like self-fulfilling propecy. Sounds to me as if the term 'Blacks' was devised purely in order certain people would learn to become 'self hating' and thus hateful and hate-filled.

'Blacks' is an abomination of a term.

It should be made redundant.

If I were in possession of any influence at all, I would introduce the term 'Golden Americans' in place of the current 'Black Americans'.

I'm confident that if people identified with the word 'Golden', they would learn to like themselves, regard themselves immediately in hugely more positive light. Would walk and talk and think *proudly* and that would flow on to the rest and would consolidate and enrich society. Win, win, for all

I have never given any negative conotation to the word 'black' as used towards race or ethnicity, and I think to do so is a bit of a PC-tainted stretch. And that from me...a knee-jerk Liberal/Pinko type!

Mind you, a pal went on a rant that concluded "I'm not Afro-anything. I'm Canadian, I'm black...I've got nothing to do with Africa." So, it's all about self-identification, isn't it?

When I was going through Navy bootcamp, there was a young girl in my company from the backwoods of Georgia. She saw nothing wrong with refering to people of color as (the "N" word). When I told her that she could not do this, she was shocked. "What do we call them then?" she asked with total bewilderment. My answer was simply "Sailors."

My husband, a former Marine, once told me that there are no blacks in the USMC. There are no whites either. Everyone is green.

While going through school to become a certified A&P mechanic, one of my instructors had the misfortune of addressing a young man in my class as "You people." My friend replied "What people would that be?" The instructor replied"You black people." My friend informed the instructor that he was not black, but brown. From then on, many people called him Brown Man. He was reduced from a person with a name to a color.

We are not whatever color our skin happens to be. We are all one race; the human race.

*EDIT spelling*

[edit on 6/22/2007 by darkelf]

Dock6,

Thanks for your participation.

Originally posted by Dock6
Whoever persuaded people to identify as 'black', certainly wasn't doing 'black' people any favours ! It was a divisive agenda. Simplistic and insulting. Divide and conquer. Re-opening and ripping the scabs from wounds. Pitting 'black' against 'white', and completely ignoring the myriad shades between which obviously make the whole 'colour' issue irrelevant.

One of the earliest proponents of Black Nationalism, Booker T. Washington's (1856-1915) insistence that the Negro could attain equality through their own economic and moral advancement, rather than through legal and political changes, was in lock step with the prevailing ideology of Southern white racists. The last thing Southern whites wanted for the Negro, was political power and Booker T. Washington agreed, which is why many Southern whites supported him. But to believe the Negro could advance economically, without legal redress, or political power in America, was naïve and tantamount to believing a sailboat could traverse the ocean without sails.

But the use of the word black to decribe people of color in America started with Fard Muhammad, and the Nation of Islam (Black Nationalist Movement) in Detroit, in the early 30s. The mission was more clearly defined when Elija Muhammad took over around the same time.

From: A breif History on the origin of The nation Of Islam In America, A Nation Of Peace and Beauty.

On July the Fourth, the day of America's Independence celebration, He announced the beginning of His mission which was to restore and to resurrect His lost and found people, who were identified as the original members of the Tribe of Shabazz from the Lost Nation of Asia. The lost people of the original nation of African descent, were captured, exploited, and dehumanized to serve as servitude slaves of America for over three centuries. His mission was to teach the downtrodden and defenseless Black people a thorough Knowledge of God and of themselves, and to put them on the road to Self-Independence with a superior culture and higher civilization than they had previously experienced.

www.noi.org...

What they did in reality, was split the "Negro" community into two camps. Those who were about becoming integrated into society, through peaceful means by changing the laws of this country, and those, Who as Malcom X so eloquently stated, "By any means necessary."

In the eyes of the Black Nationionalist, the Rev. Martin Luther King, and those who supported him, were Uncle Toms, and the God they followed was an impudent fantasy concocked by the "White devils" to enslave the spiritual minds of blacks. The idea that colored people were marching in non-violent protest, while angry whites threw stones, shot, lynched and hurled racist vitriol at them, just angered them even more.

By the time 1963 arrived, and the March on Washington, Malcolm X was calling it, "The Farce on Washington" and threaten any member of the Nation Of Islam with temporary suspension if they attended it.

So there was a real battle taking place within the colored community between the forces of light, and the forces of darkness, over the methods by which racial equality would be acheived.

As Truthseeka so aptly pointed out:

Originally posted by truthseeka
As a colored person from the CRE, I'd think you would know that the "I'm black" came into effect as "radical" black people decided to turn the white "we say black is ugly" mentality on its head and take pride in themselves.

So it was frustration with the process, and the reluctance on the part of those within the "White establishment" who had not given up their hatred of blacks, that led to adopting the word black, as a statement of pride, which then led to re-defining the word to represent a culture.

The effects on white america to the radical black movement, was one of dissappointment, and a sense of betrayal, because many had begun to see the destructiveness of racism plastered on our TV sets. The beatings, the shooting by southern policemen. The late 50s through the 60s, was really a wake up call for America, because of it. Which is why there never would have been an equal rights ammendment, if it was just people of color demanding it.

But once the images of "Black" men waving guns ala, the Black Panthers, and the raised fists at the mexico olympics appeared on the same TV screans that had helped to change the views of many whites - the new images sent them running for the hills, and the new age of "fear the Black man" emerged.

And the black radicals hung around just long enough to completely tear down most of the work that men like A. Phillip Randolph, James Farmer, John Lewis, Rev. Martin Luther King, and others had worked tirelessly to achieve.

Originally posted by Dock6
How do all those upstanding Afro American families cope with the flood of 'black gangsta' reports in the media?

Some of them go to Africa to start schools. Some pretend they're above it, or try to ignor it. While still others, take advantage of the resentment and anger in the Black communities, by exploiting the situation to get rich - like the rap business, with ex-crack dealers, and pimps, who actually have the audasity to believe that God put them in position to rape the minds of young black youths, who can recite word for word, verses from some of the most ignorant diatribes, promoting the gansta mentality, money, power, sex, bitches and whoes nonsense, the world has ever known.

Just this very second, as I was writing that last sentance, a young black man passed by on the sidewalk outside my abode, raping about "Niggas..." this and that.

Originally posted by Dock6
I'm confident that if people identified with the word 'Golden', they would learn to like themselves, regard themselves immediately in hugely more positive light.

Not for me. The Rev. Marin Luther King is truly one of my heros. His "I Have A Dream Speach" was perhaps one of the most power, thought provoking summations of the entire history of the struggle of people of color, ending with these hopeful words:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

And it's "Black" people who refuse to embrace this dream, not whites.


[edit on 22-6-2007 by SatansQue]

White folks, black folks, orange folks, pink folks, if all of these exsisted you would be able to single a good portion of them and say they are rebel-rousers,

its not a color thing, its a mindset, your forgetin most of the folks who portray themselves as "hard" arent even black, their white middle class people who dont have much ( they see ) in their intrests so they try an fit in elsewhere, as well as other people from other ethnic groups,

It happens, its not a race thing its Mob-mantality.

Go back and time, cause all the issues america has pushed apon much of the african-american folks onto the white folks and see if the same doesnt happen to them, as well as most of the inhabitance of inner-cities.

Inner-cities have more of a political corp. mindset most of the officals want to progress in their jobs and therefor do things based apon job promotion rather then whats "right" ( fix schools, community centers, ways to stay out of trouble, and so forth )

Its not a racial issue. Its a unfortunate way of fitting in.

in addition - alot of the things other racial groups do arent on the same media spotlight as what african-americans groups do. We dont hear too much about MS-13, KKK, an other small minded folks who cause alot of problems, what about our seattle, WA folks who protest in some of the most un-orthidox ways you can imagine, The punk rock riots after concerts, the huge increase of counterfitting scams in highschools of mostly white american origins.

Its everywhere, and kinda unfair to label one group worst then the other.

World peace takes a world effort, World ignorance takes only one.




[edit on 22-6-2007 by Tranceopticalinclined]

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Tranceopticalinclined]

Originally posted by SatansQue
When I hear a "Black" man call another nigga, or dog, I see the faces of these men, and I litterally become filled with emotion to the point of tears.

I do, too.

I don't have much to add to this thread at this time. I am just REALLY enjoying reading it and I love your accountable stance on this subject, SatansQue. I, too, wonder how you came to your views on this subject. Most people who consider themselves "black" are far, far away from your commendable position and stand on the subject.

Do you happen to know why you think so differently than most? Did someone teach you this or did you just come to it on your own by putting thought into it and thinking for yourself?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I have never given any negative conotation to the word 'black' as used towards race or ethnicity, and I think to do so is a bit of a PC-tainted stretch. And that from me...a knee-jerk Liberal/Pinko type!

Johnny,

Thanks for your participation in this discussion. I believe you when you say that you have never given any negative conotation the the word black. But then, you don't define yourself as black, and I'm sure if tomorrow the powers that be, (whoever you want them to be) said, "From now on, we will use the word idiot, to mean pride in country, and the heritage of our people," would you become define yourself as an idiot?

Think about it; as rediculous as that may sound, guareenteed there would be people willing to call themselves idiots, based upon the new definition. The minuscule fragments of information about you as a person, revealed by your written words, tells me that there is no way you would call yourself an idiot, just because someone changed the definition to be more user friendly.

But then, would you be willing to call someone an idiot, if it makes them feel good about themselves, or would you say, "Dude, have you ever looked up the word idiot in a dictionary?"

So words have meaning. And it is a testiment to your lack of ill-will towards anyone that doen't allow you to see the negativity in a word, used by a buddy, who calls himself black. It all depends I guess, on whether or not you believe in the power of words, and of the hidden energy carried by certain words.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Mind you, a pal went on a rant that concluded "I'm not Afro-anything. I'm Canadian, I'm black...I've got nothing to do with Africa." So, it's all about self-identification, isn't it?

I would ask your pal, "What about you is black?" I don't know him, nor do I have to, to be pretty certain that he is not, in fact, black, as in without color or hue.

I have seen some pretty dark people in my life. We had a friend once who we called urple, because he was so dark, his skin appeared to take on a purplish hue. But looking closely, what you really saw was a myriad of colors. So in order to be black then, it must be something other than skin color.

Historian Barbara J. Fields said this about race, in a 1982 essay:

“"Race" is not a "physical fact" but a "notion that is profoundly and in its very essence ideological."
From: Veiled Visions, The 1906 Atlanta Race Riot and the Reshaping of American Race Relations by David Fort Godshalk

“Not physical, and in it’s very essence ideological?” The black nationalist, black power movement, was clearly defined as a seperatist movement. So if your pal lives and works among non-black people, and believes in the integration of the races, then he is automatically disqualified as being black, as defined by the folks who invented the ideological framwork for what it means to be black.

So if it was just a matter of self-identification, then you could be black, just like Bill Clinton referred to himself as the first black President, because he spent time in Harlem, and went to Africa to appologise for slavery.

I guess I'm asking, at what point does the actual meaning of the words we use to decribe ourselves matter? How difficult would it be to communicate with people, and understand where they're coming from, if everyone changed the meaning of words to fit whatever mood, or idological state of mind they might be in, at any given moment? Especially a word that describes more than a human experience or understanding. A word that actually describes an alternative reality - an existance devoid of light.

Nothing we can do or say, changes this. But being black, I believe changes those who believe they are black, to the meaning of the word. Which is the main thrust of this thread.

I'm really glad you raised the question, because even though it might seem too subtle to make a difference, think about it; your innitial comments prove differently:

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
OK, interesting thread...
This shaping up to be another 'summer of the gun' in Toronto, I really dispair of what's happening in the black community here. And say what you like, I think the excesses of hip-hop culture are really corrosive towards the youth. I put a lot of blame on that.

In the "Black" community. The excesses, is what defines Black culture.

From the St. Petersburg Times:

Are the streets fit for King?
As people mark Martin Luther King Jr. Day today, some wonder whether putting his name on roads honors him or is simply an empty gesture.

It goes like this: Rock says a white friend called him for directions. The man said he was calling from King Street.

"Run!" Rock tells him.

"I don't care where you live in America," Rock says, "if you're on Martin Luther King Boulevard, there's some violence going on."

www.sptimes.com...

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I exist in a really diverse world here and I like that. We talk of racial acceptance and tolerance,

Which is the complete opposite of being black, by definition.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Do you happen to know why you think so differently than most? Did someone teach you this or did you just come to it on your own by putting thought into it and thinking for yourself?

You know, I'm a sculptor, and I never took a single lesson. It just came to me, and seemed natural to understand balance, and composition. It came with the body. I was a complete failure in high school, as far as grades are concerned, and flunked out of college. The first book I ever read cover to cover, I was twenty-something. But I've written 2 novels, 3 plays, a musical and other stuff. None of it's published at the moment, because I only began shopping my work about 6 months ago.

I bring these things up, not to brag, lord knows. But my views on race, came from the same place as the sculpting, and writing came from. My dad didn't care much for white people, so I certainly didn't get it from him. And I didn't get it from my mom, cause we never talked about it.

I have always felt like a complete stranger, even to myself. And all I know is that back in the late 50s, and 60s, even though I was still very young, I saw the whole race thing much differently than the other colored kids I grew up with.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Well there is a problem, any sane person acknowledges that! How one deals with the problem is the question. There's various ways, and I think the frank, kids gloves off measure is really the most honest for ones soul. That's were the problem is, it's a problem in the soul, heart, and spirit. So while I'm inclined to lean towards the Bill Cosby approach on a practical level, I think the real problem is spiritual; a disconnection of ones history and past. Most African Americans are completely disconnected from their root culture. Afrocentricity doesn’t help in the matter because it focuses too much on validating African kingdoms and monarchies without focusing on the long and continuing knowledge of indigenous cultures that still exist. Believing that vast empires and monarchies are superior is, dare I say, a very Eurocentric approach. Look at how much we have learned from early European pagan culture, as a global village we have been very foolish in neglecting our past. Reconnecting ourselves with the past would help solve issues of conspiracies and ET’s, helping us look beyond “modern” science.
A majority of Black Americans can not even trace their roots four to five generations back, same with other displaced Africans; this is really why there is so much self-destruction and self-hatred. Why is there so much self-destruction in Africa then? They are aware of their past? European influence aside, the Black population has to be culpable for it’s actions no matter the adversity facing them. I should say "Us" because I am part of this population and I was dismayed by this news as well.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Amelie]

Satan I would like to tell you that all things you have mentioned happen every day buddy. So mentioning the juneteenth thing is pointsless. This of this nature happen monday-sunday. You need to stop being a racists to you own kind and realize that the people who are really the crazy ones are black,white, any color that lives on this earth. Every single race does the same things and people are horrible and thought less creatures.

I always thought the term "Juneteenth" was racist. Doesn't that imply that blacks are too lazy to say June Nineteenth? Who came up with this official proclamation of Juneteenth anyway?

Originally posted by Amelie
There's various ways, and I think the frank, kids gloves off measure is really the most honest for ones soul. That's were the problem is, it's a problem in the soul, heart, and spirit. So while I'm inclined to lean towards the Bill Cosby approach on a practical level, I think the real problem is spiritual; a disconnection of ones history and past. Most African Americans are completely disconnected from their root culture.

Amelie, thanks for your thought provoking comments.

You won't be able to tell by this post, but you've had me sitting in front of my computer screen writing this responce all afternoon. Holy Smoke!

After I read it, and then pondered it, what kept hitting me, were these words, "Soul, heart, and spirit", and "kids gloves off."

So I'm gonna stop beating around the bush, and take the gloves off like you said.

I couldn't help but think that perhaps the disconnect isn't with the history of these physical bodies, and finding a root culture, but rather with finding once again, the root of our collective spiritual beginnings.

Today, what passes as religion in my opinion, is nothing more than a construct designed by various powers throughout history, who were actually trying their best to keep humankind away from the truth. Away from our root spiritual connection with the Divine.

But like I said in the original post, when the slaves in this country discovered Moses, and Jesus, then it was full on praying and the singing of spirituals while at work and play, that brough them through the nighmare.

So from a completely spiritual standpoint, a race of people who spent their first 344 years on this soil, praying fervently for and end to their bondage, then for equal rights, marching non-violently to be pleasing in the eyes of the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, and the Christ Jesus, who defined Himself as the Light of this world -

and then immediately after all those prayers are answered; freed from slavery, a Civil Rights Ammendment, and a voting Rights bill, throwing the God who answered those prayers, as well as the man who was the instrament of God, under the bus, in an orgy of black pride, and violence...?

You gotta know all hell will break loose, as it has.

Saying, "I am black, and I am proud" is the verbal negation of the spiritual connection, with the Divine source of the light within us, regardless of intent, or what you (Not you personally) want the word to mean in your own mind. James Brown even wrote a song about it, "Say it loud, I'm black an I'm proud!" And Black people made it a number one hit.

Now one might say, "But if we were not cognizant of this perticular finite understanding, then how are we really negating the spiritual connection with, and denying God?" Well, if one actually believes everything in the Bible comes from God, then one also has to accept that the God of the Bible will bring his wrath down upon anyone who turns their back on Him.

To claim ignorance, when the use of the word to define oneself, is an act of ignorance in and of it's self, just doesn't work. And the proof is what we have now. The proof is in the numbers. The FBI began keeping stats on Black on Black murder beginning in 1975. From 1975 until 2005 there were more than 150,000 blacks murdered by blacks in this country. That's more people murdered in one race, than the numbers of soldiers who died in Viet nam, Bosnia, and both Iraqi conflicts combined.

Black people had basically declared war on each other.

When we were colored, sure every once in a while you'd hear about someone getting murdered during a fight, or because they got caught in the act of cheating, but nothing like the sudden rise in murder, and black on black crime after colored people became black.

I am one of those people who believes I've been here before, and experienced many diverse physical experiences, from one end of the universe to the other. So, it's difficult to imagine that making the link between this moment, this body, and the ancestors of this particular family I have encarnated into, would hold any real significance to what lies ahead for me.

And personally, I believe the Bible is full of slander against God, and I don't believe in a vengful, wratful, angry God. But Black peope will spend some time in a church. And black people take the Bible seriously. And if like I said, they believe it, then it's either God bringing the whup-ass, or it's them bringing it down upon their own heads.

Either way, seems the only way to end it, according to the Bible, is through the collective rejection of the blackness, repentance, the asking for forgiveness, and never letting the words, "I am black" escape from the lips, sit in the heart, or torment the soul again. Doing this will restore the spiritual connection with the God who brought us up out of the pit of slavery, and back into the light.

I believe it's the only way. And I believe this message is the reason I exist. Might sound a little dramatic, and believe me, it's not coming from an ego driven motivation. If that was the case, I wouldn't be a-dressed up like the devil, and I'd be saying it as the real me. Honestly, this message has been kicking my ass for the last 44 years.

So think of me as a modern day Jonah, asked to deliver a message I didn't really want to, being stuck in a whale of a friggin' life for years, and finally deciding it's better to do what I was told to do. LOL!!

Originally posted by SatansQue
I am one of those people who believes I've been here before, and experienced many diverse physical experiences, from one end of the universe to the other. So, it's difficult to imagine that making the link between this moment, this body, and the ancestors of this particular family I have encarnated into, would hold any real significance to what lies ahead for me.

Many diverse physical experiences is key in that everyone has a different purpose and a different level of understanding. A majority of this site is dedicated to the illuminated ones. I believe there is a certain level of knowledge one can hope to attain in this life. Some will transcend basic understanding, some won't. For the many that won't, I suggest connecting to some symbolence of a spiritual past, this might no hold significance for you, but you're not committing random acts of senseless violence at gatherings.

Originally posted by SatansQue

Originally posted by Soraia
DEBT goes both ways, if the white man has a debt to us, we have a debt to our forefathers to get it together, keep it together, and appreciate the massive steps that have been accomplished through their sacrifices.

I know this is going to sound like I have really just lost my mind, but to be honest, I don't believe the "White man" owes us a damn thing. At the time slavery existed in this country, the bottom line is that it was legel. Slavery, absolutely, is morally wrong, but as far as cheap labor was concerned, for a country in the process of building, the labor didn't get any cheaper than slave labor...

SQ,

man, 'God' gave you a gift, you need to write books.

Reading what you write is what I've been thinking and feeling for years, incapable of expressing it to this extent...

I agree with you, and I actually meant that part of the above quote sort of sarcastically, that if we really believe someone owes us something, we shouldn't be too blind to see whom we are indebted to as well.

I started thinking about this topic years ago, in school in Germany, we were learning about the reparitions Germany was paying to Israel for the Holocaust. I started thinking wow, I should be going to England/Spain and asking for reparition for my ancestors...cocky thought, I know, I know. But I thought, hey my people suffered too (I'm mixed in heritage, but predominantly colored). It was great that Germany paid to Israel, as something like that could never be paid off.

But following that train of thought, I thought where it could end, everyone would be asking reparitions/retributions from each other.
At the same time, it made me think of this happening on a global scale, with everyone being indebted to/paying everyone. And how ridiculous that would be.



[edit on 22-6-2007 by Soraia]

[edit on 22-6-2007 by Soraia]

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Soraia]

I guess, Satansque.

You just don't get it. The reason you see something wrong with "black" is that you are only looking at it in the English language. Like I said, English has a strong "white is right, black is bad" element to it. Just look at the decades-old dictionaries. Some of the MANY examples are "whitewash" and "blackmail." You'd be suprised how many phrases containing "'n-word'" can be found in these tomes.

You also neglect the lack of a true nationality. Of course, you'll say this is nonsense, there's American. Try coming down here to much of Texas with that "I'm not black, I'm American" mentality. You'll figure it out REAL fast.

You also neglect the effects of centuries of being barred from education and family structure destruction. And of course, you'll say that black people are naturally adverse to education, all the while showing ignorance of your people's history. And that's your problem.

And as you rail against hip hop, you once again show ignorance. I'm sure you'll say that black people are the biggest supporters of hip hop. And, you're basically saying that all black people are too stupid to know the difference between life and art. You might as well rail against horror movies, seeing as they make us all more prone to gut people.

But I guess it feels good, getting pats on the back for hating on your own people. What a shame that you've fully internalized racism. Especially since you will never be white.:shk:

I'm proud of who I am. I don't let stereotypes, especially from your ilk, define who I am. Not every black person is hood, even if you're from there.

Hate yourself if you like, but don't call me crazy because I'm black. It makes you look ridiculous.

truthseeka, I can understand why you don't agree with SatansQue. And you certainly have every right to have and express your opinion, as do we all. But the fact that SQ has a different, refreshing and accountable perspective when thinking about his/her race does not mean that he/she "just doesn't get it" or is neglectful, ignorant, hateful or ridiculous. Quite the opposite is true, in my opinion.

In fact, I believe that the way SQ is thinking about him/herself shows pride, patience, careful thought and wisdom. I hope that more people of color can shrug off the old ways of thinking about their race and take up a truly prideful way of being. Not out of anger or resentment directed at another race, but of self-love and forward-thinking.

The anger carried around by many people of color today is getting them nowhere. In fact, it's proving to be a huge setback in racial equality and race relations. It's adding to the gulf between the races. When what is needed is a healing and progress. The anger and resentment that many hold (sometimes without even realizing it ) are maintaining the status quo, when what is needed is a breaking away from old thought patterns and a drive toward a new future.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And of course, you'll say that black people are naturally adverse to education,

I'm sure you'll say that black people are the biggest supporters of hip hop.

And, you're basically saying that all black people are too stupid to know the difference between life and art.

You have put many ideas in SQ's mouth that were not there. This assumptive way of thinking just causes an "us vs them" mentality and isn't conducive to discussing the full picture of race and race relations and self-perception. This thread is about how people see themselves. SQ clearly has a healthy self-perception. A calm, confident, magnetic self-identity.

Originally posted by truthseeka
What a shame that you've fully internalized racism. Especially since you will never be white.:shk:

I'm proud of who I am. I don't let stereotypes, especially from your ilk, define who I am.

Put SQ on the "side of the white people" if you must, but a whole lot of us know the "sides" are melting away. There is no need for sides. We're all on the same side. Most people want equality. It's just that some aren't willing to accept it and run with it. They'd rather hold on to the inequality of the past and use it as a weapon in their own personal "jihad".

A struggle is so appealing to some. The "romance" of being wronged and having to fight for what one deserves in life is the stuff of great movies. And if a person gives that up, they have to get down to the business of making their life work... of taking responsibility for what happens in their life. There's no one to blame. Pretty scary. But that's where the power is. The real power.

Allah AkBARRRRR!!! indeed.

Originally posted by truthseeka
You'd be suprised how many phrases containing "'n-word'" can be found in these tomes.

In fairness, though, that's because negro is Spanish for black, right? The word denigrate, for example, is not derived from 'the n-word', rather they come from the common root. However, that word in particular would certainly seem to bolster SatansQue's original argument, wouldn't it?

And just to address the one poster's suggestion that people of colour see themselves as brown or golden, instead...here in Canada, because of our French aspect, we get a lot of folks from Africa and Haiti. Many of them are really black. Light absorbing deep ebon. I'm sure they have no interest in being called golden, if indeed they require a Crayola designation. Then again, we have an South Asian jazz performer who calls himself 'Brown Man', and comic who calls him and his people brown.

And depending on the season, I'm kinda pinkish (aside from my politics) towards brown as the summer progresses. And they call me white. Go figure.

Thanks Amelie,

I understand what you're saying. But let me ask you this. If you believe everything you say here,

Originally posted by Amelie
Many diverse physical experiences is key in that everyone has a different purpose and a different level of understanding. A majority of this site is dedicated to the illuminated ones. I believe there is a certain level of knowledge one can hope to attain in this life. Some will transcend basic understanding...,

then isn't it important to reach out to these folks,

Originally posted by Amelie
...some won't. For the many that won't, I suggest connecting to some symbolence of a spiritual past, this might not hold significance for you, but you're not committing random acts of senseless violence at gatherings.

instead of directing them backwards, deeper, into the physical realm of ancestrial history? Wouldn't the aforementioned understanding help people understand a slice of the big picture? A gimpse of a future without violence? What do you think?

Truthseeka,

I want to thank you for jumping back into this thread, because your comments are important, by the mere fact that you dissagree.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I guess, Satansque.

You just don't get it. The reason you see something wrong with "black" is that you are only looking at it in the English language. Like I said, English has a strong "white is right, black is bad" element to it. Just look at the decades-old dictionaries. Some of the MANY examples are "whitewash" and "blackmail." You'd be suprised how many phrases containing "'n-word'" can be found in these tomes.

If you believe everything you just said, then you have answered the question why, no man, woman, child, dog, cat, fish, should ever use the word as a means to define themselves.

But more importantly, this "Black" thing is only 44 years old. It's not like "Black" people decided to call themselves black, and then all the white people on the planet changed the meaning of the word in all the dictionaries to represent something that is evil, just to screw black people. You said yourself, "decades-old dictionaries." Then you go on to say, how surprised I'd be at how many phrases contain the word "'n-word'"? But "Black" people have embraced that word too.

So what you're saying, is these words have had negative, racist connotations for as long as the "White man" has been writting books, but somehow, colored folks decided that they should embrace, perhaps the most negative words in human - English, world history and create a whole culture behind it?

And I don't get it?

And from a spiritual standpoint, before there were human beings - english dictionaries, the earth, the stars, the universe, what do you think there was, but the void? The black, the darkness, the nothing. Devoid of Light. I'm not making this up. So calling yourself Black, on a spiritual level, is identifying with the void - a time before anything existed. Nothingness.

Originally posted by truthseeka
You also neglect the lack of a true nationality. Of course, you'll say this is nonsense, there's American. Try coming down here to much of Texas with that "I'm not black, I'm American" mentality. You'll figure it out REAL fast.

I've been to Dallas Fortworth, several times. I was driving in a caravan of pick-up trucks, with gunracks, lots of rednecks, and a "Black" man. We had this very conversation. Then we got on RVs, and went out shooting water moccasins from the banks of the red river. Had a cookout around the camp fire later that night, with more rednecks involved in the conversation. It got heated yes, but you know what? The rednecks got it, but the "Black" man, till this day calls me a sell-out.

Originally posted by truthseeka
You also neglect the effects of centuries of being barred from education and family structure destruction.

Before we were "Black" one of the strongest family - community structures in America were the colored families. Everybody looked out for everyone's children. You couldn't walk past an eldery woman without saying hello. If you did, by the time you got home your parents already knew. "You think you're too good to speak to people boy!" Bamm! "Now go appologise!"

She would be waiting at the front door of her house, apartment, with cookies and milk, and then you'd have to sit and listen to a twenty minute speech on the fundamentals of being a good neighbor. Today, she would be shot for snitching.

People didn't throw trash on the streets. And if you did, by the time you got home, again, one of the neighbors would have called your parents. And after whipping your ass ("You want to live like a pig boy!) they'd send you back to where you dropped it, to pick it up.

Guys I grew up with, we were in the cub scouts, boy scouts and explorer scouts. We looked after one another. No one ever, owned a gun, or tried to stab anybody. You got beatings for bad grades. No one had to lock their doors at night. And if some fool was stupid enough to rob anyone in the neighborhood, we would find that person, and beat his ass, with our fists. I also remember the first time a colored dancer appeared on the Lawrence Welk Show, (yikes! I'm old) every colored person in America was glued to the TV set.

Because we were excited for the accomplishments of all colored people.

Originally posted by truthseeka
all the while showing ignorance of your people's history.

I lived through some of the history you've read about.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And as you rail against hip hop, you once again show ignorance. I'm sure you'll say that black people are the biggest supporters of hip hop.

My daughter is a hip-hop producer. She knows how I feel. And I know who supports it.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And, you're basically saying that all black people are too stupid to know the difference between life and art.

It's patently obvious they don't.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I'm proud of who I am. I don't let stereotypes, especially from your ilk, define who I am.

Being "Black" IS the stereotype. IT defines you.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Hate yourself if you like, but don't call me crazy because I'm black. It makes you look ridiculous.

By definition, it is crazy to call yourself "Black "

[edit on 23-6-2007 by SatansQue]