War With Iran Has Begun 5/21/07

Sorry to bother, but Hersh has reported this about two years ago...

Monday January 17, 2005

American special forces have been on the ground inside Iran scouting for US air strike targets for suspected nuclear weapons sites, according to the renowned US investigative journalist Seymour Hersh.

Soruce

Originally posted by PsykoOps

Originally posted by jsobecky
I wasn't referring to Iran specifically. I was referring to the issue of national security in general.

And Iran certainly does have the capability to strike us, from within. Just as al Qaeda struck us from within.

So any country in the world is fair game now? I mean isn't it true that any country could strike US from within in a terrorist fashion? Where do you draw the line then?

I'm not sure what you mean, "fair game"? The topic was national security, and how it might be jeopardized by leaking sensitive information.

one thought: NEW WORLD ORDER prepping.............

This has been happening for a very long time. It will become fact very soon. The United States can not continue to bank roll and fight the entire world for very much longer. Drastic measures are being put into place and are happening everyday. Soon we as citizens of the US will be told what we can do and cant do in every aspect of our lives. WE are spread very thin and soon the wheels will fall off the wagon and our way of life will be much like that of third world countries. Just think about this one. The world oil supplies are drying up fast. What do you think will happen when we are at the end of our oil reserves. We will do what we are doing now, starting wars in big oil producing countries. IRAN is next on our list of oil reserves we want to confiscate.


Hide and Watch !!!!!!

Originally posted by osram
Oh my God.

I don't know if i should laugh or cry. djohnsto, or jsobecky.. especially.
National Security.. Weapons of Mass Destruction... Safety... Security... the "Mission"... More Security in Change for Freedom... and even more SECURITY! Save our Soldiers but don't think about why they were sent to war! Save American Lives!
National Security! Civil Security... Executive Legislation! Popopopopolice State Humanity!!

Is that all you can think and talk about?
Sounds really Zombie-Tastic.
So is this the new Generation of Security-Automatons? ;]
:
How can you still care about the "National Security"?
The information should be here for everyone. Non-transparent governments and operations are one of the main reasons why we are in this mess in first place.

Can you give me an answer? But please.. i want some individuality in your elaborations. No automaton-answers, please.

If that is not possible, you might consider reprogramming yourselves with Trigger-Words as; basic human rights, international law, common sense, compassion, people... us.

I dont care about "National Security". That word doesn't make sense. And whistleblowers should be given a friggin medal for their civil courage... because it's those who call them traitors, who've got no clue.. and are treasonous themselves.

So let me get this straight: you think that we should not worry about national security. You think that you are entitled to see every piece of information that our government possesses that deals with the war against terror.

Right?

That is really too silly to debate. If you are entitled to that info, then so is every terrorist that wants to do us harm.

Do you realize that? Do you see how silly your position is?

Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by jsobecky

The problem, of course, is what is really "need to know" information, and when does it cross into the area of jeopardizing national security?

Need to know...I need to know when government is going to perform covert operations in our name. That way when Iran starts suicide bombing us I don't sit here going "What did we do to deserve this?!"

Sorry, that's not "need to know". That's "nice to know", or more accurately, "want to know".

We should be informed of who our government is attacking because it is just that, OUR GOVERNMENT. If we don't agree with doing this to Iran, OUR GOVERNMENT shouldn't be doing it. I don't agree with going into Iran, so I am against this. How would I be able to say "I am against this" if the government is trying to do it without our knowing? This is wrong, whichever way you try to cut it.

Again, ignorance rears it's ugly head on ATS... please get the facts straight:

The plan is to use propaganda and disinfo to destabilize the Iranian regime.

Iran uses propaganda and disinfo every day of the week. So does practically every other nation on earth.

Nobody is "going into Iran".

If this is true then why is it being leaked through a media news outlet? It reads more like disinformation to me... if it is happening we won't be reading about it here or anywhere else. Think about it.... do you really think that the Iranians wouldn't be monitoring our news liek we monitor theirs? If and when it happens it will be carefully orchastrated so that once again the American populous like the good cattle that they are will fall right in line.

And just to let you all know where im from. I am a stout patriot of America and what America was built up to become. I have roots back to the original settlers, so please dont question my love of this great country.

Somewhere in our history our politicians sold us out. For money,wealth or fame who knows why. But I have served my country in far away places and ive seen alot of wild things in my life. But mostly ive seen the American way of life be changed dramatically in the wrong direction. Congress does nothing but campaign now year round, they fight with each other and get absolutly nothing done for the betterment of the American citizen. NON AMERICANS are allowed to enter America at will. We are in two war fronts that we have no chance of winning, anyway you slice it. Terrorism will always be present just like drug dealers will never be put out of business.

The solution is clear to me and should be to all of you. it will be painfull to say the least but has to happen for America to get back on the right path.

America must immediatly close its boarders to everyone not already with Visa in hand or legal status in tact. This mean building a wall around the whole country. Doing this would for sure put thousands of people to work and would protect our land from intrusion. Second we have to document every perosn now in the country door to door if need be. Third and lastly we must tell the world we tried to be a partner for peace but you dont want peace so fight to the death if you want but if you come close to our boarders we will bury you. This may sound very harsh but it is the only way to be sure.

Also and this is a big one, when we pull our troops back to protect our own boarders, most of the countries we have a presence in will likely go down the tubes, so we offer them state status and they can become part of the United States of democracy. or NEW WORLD ORDER !!!

Forgive the typos

I think these news fit perfectly in the current picture:

---

rawstory.com...

Two US aircraft carriers reach Gulf waters
AFP
Published: Wednesday May 23, 2007

The USS John C. Stennis and USS Nimitz aircraft carriers and their strike groups entered Gulf waters to support troops in Iraq and conduct training exercises, the US Navy said Wednesday.

"The carriers and amphibious strike groups and their associated forces will conduct missions in direct support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and will also perform Expeditionary Strike Force training," the Bahrain-based US Fifth Fleet said.

In January, Washington said it planned to keep two carrier battle groups in the Gulf for months -- the first such deployment since 2003.

Tension is high over Iran's controversial atomic energy programme. Washington suspects Iran is secretly trying to develop a nucLear weapon, a charge Tehran strongly denies.

The navy said the training exercises planned for the strike groups were not related to the Iran standoff.

"We are conducting this training in order to gain valuable experience across a wide spectrum of naval disciplines," the statement said.

"The timing of this exercise is determined by the availability of forces, and is not connected to events in the region. This exercise is not directed against any nation."

The Nimitz is replacing the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower.

But Mustafa Alani, a senior analyst with the UAE-based Gulf Research Centre, said it was no coincidence the US ships arrived on the same day the UN nuclear watchdog was due to issue a report expected to show Iran continuing to defy UN demands that it stop enriching uranium.

"The aim of this step, which coincides entirely with the end of the UN deadline, is to send a clear message to Iran that a military option is available to Washington," Alani told AFP by telephone.

Alani said he doubted the United States is planning an all-out war with Iran, but is rather gathering its forces in the Gulf in the event of a sudden outbreak of conflict.

"The Americans are convinced they must assemble a certain amount of power to deal with a suprise conflict, even though in my view a decision to go to war has not been taken," he said.

A sudden, unexpected outbreak of hostilities between the United States and Iran could be triggered by events in Iraq, where both states have competing interests, Alani added.

Non-proliferation expert Gary Samore said from New York that "obviously the bottom line is that they haven't accepted a suspension of enrichment. That's all the Security Council needs to take further sanctions."

WAR WITH IRAN BY THE END OF THE SUMMER!!!!

Originally posted by lee anoma

Originally posted by newtron25
Although I agree that we have absolutely no right being in Iraq and even less right to engage Iran, the people we send (and please recognize that they are people, not requisitions or digital representations within a larger fictional virtual simulation) to fight for us, are doing so as part of their job.

I don't get the point.

Are you saying that this information will jeopardize the soldiers being sent to fight Iran? I think if anything it will hopefully deter yet another unwise and unjust action on behalf of our current administration. The point is they shouldn't be sent at all. We all know the function of the military and the soldiers that fight for America, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of those that are responsible for sending them into an unjust war.

Speaking of numbers/digital representations some of the latest figures around the civilian deaths in Iraq are 64,133 min to 70,243 max. Now to say "oops we had erroneous info, my bad" isn't good enough.

Those are lives we're talking about here, yet most people don't even bat an eye. If those figures represented American civilian casualties it would suddenly come closer to reality for us. It seems most people have an inability to empathize with anyone that isn't remotely in their social vacuum, and step outside of themselves to recognize the atrocities that happen to others. That includes are officials that send our soldiers to fight over a lie.

We will always just be numbers.

And if you are happy being a number, then you deserved to be crunched like one.

If you do treat others, ESPECIALLY those whose task it is to defend the real country (not the digital domain some "occupy") we live in, with the same respect you wish others to give you, then there is hope.

If you give up or simply don't try, then kiss it all goodbye. It is very easy to be innundated by the enormity of the war - and in the process numb your sense of humanity towards the world about you. But people are like you, more like you than you either give them credit for or bother to think.

CIA agents, Iraqi citizens, Iranians...its when the governments (who, btw are resultant of the people within their respective countries...either an active or passive process and something for another thread)...when the governments in those countries act as governing bodies we tend to look at the monolithic entities as they are and compare them psychologically to ourselves. Then, when you address an individual from those entities (say from the CIA, for instance) you are indeed addressing that governing body...IN PART.

The other part is comprised of the stuff you are made of...the part that likes to watch TV, likes to surf the web, might play sports, go out drinking with buddies.

Jeez, when you take information and blast it like a firehose all over the internet after you think "Hey, I hacked this off of somebody's email!" or "Look what info some friend of mine passed to me! Juicy!" That was information that belonged to that person doing their job. Possibly.

Possibly evening using it to protect their direct reports...or maybe even plan some sort of mission to divert aggressions away from U.S. interests.

I may be guilty of hating the current administration. But I won't be accused of treating people like numbers, or of posting intel that may or may not be of importance because it makes me look cool.

That's kinda like saying I'm friends with somebody famous because I had my picture taken with David Hasselhoff. Lame, going both ways.

The Bush administration really needs to go.

Theres no way congress authorizes war with Iran, though.

[edit on 5-23-2007 by Cutwolf]

american "national security" has been offline since november 22/1963.
wake up, eh?
glad everyone is getting emotionally involved in the elite puppet show, though. people need to be passionate about.......*something*.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Sorry, that's not "need to know". That's "nice to know", or more accurately, "want to know".

sorry but it is a need to know who it is the united states government is engaging in military or pyschological warfare with. This is OUR taxes, OUR elected officials and OUR right to know what these people are doing with OUR taxes. If you are spending millions, possibly billions, of tax dollars to fight a country, I want to know what country it is and why.

I don't agree with the trillions of unaccounted for dollars in taxes. That is NOT what I am giving my taxes for. If I pay my taxes, I have a RIGHT to know what they are being used for. In this case, propaganda against a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT to destablize it. I DO NOT agree with this, and I am AGAINST my tax money being spent on it. I have that right. How can I protest against government actions, when they make sure I am not allowed to know what they are doing?

First off I don't believe in this kind of warfare to begin with. If the country wants to fight Iran, lets get congress to vote for a full scale war. Not a military conflict, or funds to pump Iran with propaganda. If you don't want a full scale war, then stop whining.

I have no empathy for anyone who thinks some one is a traitor because they made public what our taxes are being used for. I am against a war with Iran just yet, and I am against ANY type of conflict/covert warfare. Covert warfare is something fought by the tyrants and the dictators, not by the United States.

I've seen a great deal of "well they do it" mentality and it sickens me. Have some self respect and some pride, and fight with some honor. Where is the honor in propaganda? Where does our rights go when we allow the government to engage in activities without having to tell us? We run this government, we pay these people, and WE get to say what they will or won't do. What they won't do is take my money, and then keep it a secret from me how they use it. This is a country based on PRINCIPLES and higher standards, and anyone with an ounce of diginity would fight like it.

It's like watching gangs. They aren't honorable, they don't have principle. They don't say "We are going to fight you guys", no, they get 5 or 6 people and jump some one from behind. They are cowards. Is that how you want to fight? Like cowards? Who's fighting like cowards, the terrorists stating "We declare war on you, we will fight you" or the country who secretly spends millions upon millions to overthrow governments and spread lies to further their own ends? Sure it may be more effective, but I thought I came from a country based on principles rather than "whatever means necessary".

Sorry for the rant, but it was well deserved.

Again, ignorance rears it's ugly head on ATS... please get the facts straight:

The plan is to use propaganda and disinfo to destabilize the Iranian regime.

Iran uses propaganda and disinfo every day of the week. So does practically every other nation on earth.

Nobody is "going into Iran".

I guess the "they did it too" mentality is OK so long as its on an international scale. If some one in school threw a book at some one, does that make it OK for everyone else to do it because the first kid did it. Would you be OK with america CIA agents running planes into a building in Iran with the justification "the muslims did it to us!"?

So what, they use propaganda, that means that we are going to do it too? That makes me utterly sick. I may "show ignorance" from time to time, but at least I can look myself in the mirror and say "I chose to fight with honor", can you say that much?

Quote by Cutwolf: "Theres no way congress authorizes war with Iran, though."

Just like Bush got authorization for the war in Iraq???
or the WAR ON TERROR????
LOL.

A "secret" release leading up to the talks with Iran?

Sounds to me like someone is gathering public opinion just in case talks fall through miserably. We may have to initiate "strikes" and it's nice to know that the general public won't overthrow the government in disapproval if they were to do such a thing.

The administration is gathering data and initiating propaganda by this supposed "leak."

The war on terror is a legit war. That is legit approval.

The Iraq war - congress was fooled.

"Fool me once, shame on you..."

Congress will NOT authorize war with Iran without bringing this Iraq war to its conclusion and even then, there will be quite a bit of time before they're willing to go to war again.

Oh, and we'll likely have a Democrat in the White House by the time all this starts to go down.

War with Iran isn't going to (legally) happen.

congress didn't approve a war. They approved the president to use necessary force.They gave him permission to do as he pleased. That is something alot of the congressmen should have been fired for doing. They voted against going to war, but gave the president authority to engage in military conflict.

Whatever they approved, they won't do the same for Iran. Not under this administration.

This is the point.

CONGRESS DOESNT HAVE TO APPROVE ANYTHING!!!!!!

Bush is THE Dictator right now and can do as he pleases.

PS. The term "Fool me once" should NEVER, EVER even enter into the conversation in regards to WAR. I am educating my kids at a young age to question there Gov. at all costs.

[edit on 23-5-2007 by hoochymama]

Originally posted by MikeAtlas
Otherwise I think our nation needs a few classes on patriotism and nationalism. You may not like the government but when you stop believing in your country you definitely become a traitor.

What kind of a statement is that. So if I don't beleive in a family member that is murdering people or robbing banks then I don't care about them? Maybe I would want that person to live a better life.

I suppose a SS officer that opposed someone like Hitler in WWII would be a traitor to Hitler, but what does that actually say abot that person in light of the rest of the world and humanity?

Originally posted by hoochymama
This is the point.

CONGRESS DOESNT HAVE TO APPROVE ANYTHING!!!!!!

Bush is THE Dictator right now and can do as he pleases.

PS. The term "Fool me once" should NEVER, EVER even enter into the conversation in regards to WAR. I am educating my kids at a young age to question there Gov. at all costs.

[edit on 23-5-2007 by hoochymama]

Oh boy, Chicken Little...

Yes, congress has to approve it.

I question the government.

This is a bad government. One of the worst in American history.

It is hardly as bad as chicken littles like you make it out to be.

Continue to flaunt your lack of knowledge of the constitution and your in depth knowledge of the underground, alternative news sources. It is quite amusing.



[edit on 5-23-2007 by Cutwolf]