War With Iran Has Begun 5/21/07

Originally posted by ThomasT
I wonder if the yanks have the balls to open fire The new sizzler anti-ship missile from russia/china has no defence in the us navy. maybe take out every warship, from carrier to mine sweeper?? Im sure the irs are polishing them up as the zion-erican warmongers threaten

[edit on 27-5-2007 by ThomasT]

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I suggest not to be overly sure about it. The USA probably knew what was coming during it's design phase. Mayhap's expanded the bubble idea to some form of same with both air and outer-atmosphere missiles too.

No, I really don't believe the USA fell behind the eight ball.

Dallas

Every 25 or so years if you study the history books and foreign affairs text books USA and other oil retailing powers get involved in the internal politics of Iran.
Some times such as during the period of the Carter Administration the results of this meddling can be politically damaging while if you look at the other side of exactly the same coin when Prof Brisinsky was developing a brand new foreign affairs policy against his old enemy Russia maybe what happened in Iran and Afganistan at that time could be seen as a success and unknowingly President Carter was your greatest President...

But it is always a case of; when dealing with Iran- what comes around goes around- so any CIA operation into Iran is going to have very very serious ramifications world wide in terms of human history (we have seen all this before) and the results pop up somewhere else at another time.

Now as one of those bible studying nutters I of course blame all this on God!
It is God who in Isaiah chapter 45 says The President of Iran is my servant; I have ordained him etc etc and then if you study the text in Arabic language you have in this chapter something that you could quite happily recite in Friday prayers in the local mosque (with your audiance not knowing that it actually comes from the bible) and everyone would say "that was beautiful"

The problem i suspect with USA when it comes to places such as Iran is that it has no idea of what this ancient civilisation has already achieved and what it is going to achieve again. The actions of the Shah in the 1970s while maybe seen as being delusions of grandure were never the less prophetic of things both past present and future.
If i were a betting man i would put my money on Iran being around for many centuries to come as a major world power and the other side...

Anyway what ever the CIA thinks it is doing they ought to think again or get a good history book and read it; or read the bible; or talk to some of the Americans who lived in Iran and love the place... because what they are doing will I suggest do great damage to USA. take care love paul

Many good points here,
Also much rambling on to,
I do not judge any.

Footnotes

Now i can hear all you good people who have read the above post saying "where is this guy coming from"

So I must therefore put in some foot notes so you can go away and read good books and be wise.
On Thursday 5th Sept 1978 (my source for this is the current Iranian govt) former Prime Minister Hoveyada and then Minister of State was in discussion with the US Secretary of State by telepone and with the Shah deciding what to do next.
The result of that discussion was that disagreeing with the advice being given Hoveyada resigned as Minister and the next day Friday on that advice innocent women and children were gunned down in the streets of Iran and from that point onwards a successful Islamic revolution in Iran was ineviatable (inevitable for those who can see similarities between this and Russian revolutionary history)
The brother of Premier Hoveyada (who was executed in the revolution) has written several books which give wise insight into these matters and the nature of Islam and Iran.
His latest book is worth obtaining The Shah and The Komeni and in it he puts the point of view that both men are different sides of the dual nature of Persian society (the breast and arms part of Daniel's image that he saw in his dream) while his earlier book written before 2001 The Broken Cresent gives a good overview of Islam as a religion and the trends it displays and the difficulties of establishing "Islamic government". And an ealier book details what happened in the revolution....

Of course I take the traditional religious point of view championed in the bible that Israel and her people are the focus and reason for God's activities in the course of history but added to this we must see the dual nature of what Daniel the Jewish politician at the very start of the Persian empire and extending into the reign of Darius is both establishing and looking forward to as much he sees "the end of days"
For American people the Arabic proverb "my enemy is your friend and your friend is my enemy" makes little sence but in reality of politics in the middle east results in things happening which defie good old common sence and straight line logic. Thus as human history has in this centurty moved from a Western most watershed and is now tracking east ward the center of world events and decison making is I might respectfully suggest no longer Washington or even London but rather other cultures languages and peoples need to be heeded and obeyed.
As a New Zealander we sit at the southern most corner of the world- the very ends of the earth; and watch with great interest what is going on. We have Suni freinds we have Shia friends we have Iraqi friends we have Iranian friends we have American friends we have Israeli friends and our God appropriate to our calling is "The God of nations" paul

Originally posted by paul NZ
Every 25 or so years if you study the history books and foreign affairs text books USA and other oil retailing powers get involved in the internal politics of Iran.

It's far more often than that...

Some times such as during the period of the Carter Administration the results of this meddling can be politically damaging

Damaging for Iranians or Americans?

while if you look at the other side of exactly the same coin when Prof Brisinsky was developing a brand new foreign affairs policy

It was hardly brand new and just happened to be focused on causing more devastation and further undermining US strength.

against his old enemy Russia maybe what happened in Iran and Afganistan at that time could be seen as a success and unknowingly President Carter was your greatest President...

Success for who?

But it is always a case of; when dealing with Iran- what comes around goes around- so any CIA operation into Iran is going to have very very serious ramifications world wide in terms of human history (we have seen all this before) and the results pop up somewhere else at another time.

Iranians are probably well aware of the source of terror that has been for so long aimed at them and what comes around might very well eventually returned to the sender or , more likely, his family/subjects.

Now as one of those bible studying nutters I of course blame all this on God!
It is God who in Isaiah chapter 45 says The President of Iran is my servant; I have ordained him etc etc and then if you study the text in Arabic language you have in this chapter something that you could quite happily recite in Friday prayers in the local mosque (with your audiance not knowing that it actually comes from the bible) and everyone would say "that was beautiful"

I try to leave the bible out of my thinking but i know for a fact that a great many of those who think about these genocidal wars knows the bible quite well with some even believing, and at the very least claiming, that god is on their side.

The problem i suspect with USA when it comes to places such as Iran is that it has no idea of what this ancient civilisation has already achieved and what it is going to achieve again. The actions of the Shah in the 1970s while maybe seen as being delusions of grandure were never the less prophetic of things both past present and future.

How so?

If i were a betting man i would put my money on Iran being around for many centuries to come as a major world power and the other side...

I would not....

Anyway what ever the CIA thinks it is doing they ought to think again or get a good history book and read it; or read the bible; or talk to some of the Americans who lived in Iran and love the place... because what they are doing will I suggest do great damage to USA. take care love paul

But the CIA were in my opinion never designed to serve the American public and even if it was it never has so i can't imagine why i would suddenly start acting in a responsible way that might keep Americans alive and healthy.

Stellar

Originally posted by SevenThunders
My tin foil hat is buzzing.

I could tell you which of my huts is buzzing but the admins wont like that kind of language.

That's about the most inane thing I've heard of in a while. Who do you think supplies those F15s and the parts to keep them running?

The extremely wasteful and corrupt pentagon run military industrial complex that is wasting hundreds of billions of dollars when it bothers to produce anything at all.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Are you a American taxpayer and if so why are you not outraged at the blatant theft and waste that is preventing the US armed forces from protecting the US public against it's true foreign enemies?

I'm always amazed at the support that dictators and islamo-fascists receive from the left and their allies in the media, whilst the only democracy in the middle east with a half decent human rights record, Israel is painted out to be the monster.

Israel is the leading terrorist sponsor, with a horrible human rights record, in the ME so their leaders deserve all the scorn and remarks aimed at them. As always large parts of the Israeli population are trying to change the policies of their government but they are having as much success as the anti war movement in Britain and the US had in 2003.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that the corporate owned conservative , and sometimes blatantly reactionary, media represents the true American left?

If Israel attacked Iran they'd be doing us a huge favor.

Israel is strong but i think their leadership may realises, and this is my opinion, that short from going nuclear they can not take on Iran and keep their local enemies at bay. If they do go nuclear it will be hard to keep a state going that is so dependent on foreign donations hence their inactivity on this particular issue.

The U.S. lacks the political will to defend herself from Iranian nukes, with Nancy Pelosi running congress.

What Iranian nukes? Why not rather defend the American public against Russian and Chinese nukes given the fact that the Russians and Chinese still sometimes declare what they can and will do to the US if it intervenes in their affairs? When has Iran ever threatened to attack the US for no reason and why do the US government not focus on the threats that do have nuclear arsenals?

Stellar

On the off chance any one is still following this hear is some new news that does not sound all to pleaseing.

Three gunmen killed by U.S. troops in Iraq this week were members of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards Corps, a U.S. military statement said in Baghdad.

The U.S. Army statement said that in several anti-insurgency attacks this week, a total of nine gunmen were killed. However, in one raid in northeastern Baghdad targeting a leader of the Iranian Guards' foreign fighters known as Al-Quds, three of his aides were killed by U.S. forces, Kuwait's KUNA news agency reported.

The unidentified leader was arrested on suspicion of supplying arms to Iraqi insurgents, the statement said.
sorce