UK Expands Surveillance!

Hi kozmo.

Now, I cannot speak for the whole of the UK but I can speak generically for the US - we have revolted before and those in power had better understand that we most certainly will again if pushed too far!

People's eyes are beginning to open and awareness is permeating the sub-culture of America. The time is nearing...

I believed this such a long time ago, and I awoke to see that I was just so wrong. WE move one step forward, they have gone 20 paces ahead. They have everything wired in their favor. Their little disinfo agents. They have people in every sector of society. Tricking people into thinking that conspiracies are just that. I was one of those people. They have it so well wired, most of the people leading us, and telling us about these conspiracies, are more than likely working for them, or in league with them. The few real movements that come, probably do not last too long, or have to fight for their survival.

Look at the types of people you were when you revolted before. You had to work hard, and you were not strapped into the tube, making sure your favorite celebs life was ok. People had family views and values, it was what was at the core, that gave them the strength and independence to be who they were going to be. They were close back then, had a sense of community, and loyalty. That is why they are turning people into snitches first. Breaking down the family, and society. We will not have the foundations that we need to stop this. There is a method to their madness, and we are all falling into it.


HI devilwasp.

I spend most of my time either working or canoeing, seriously though...why would they want to watch you?

Don't know, why don't you tell me? I really don't know. My life before this was, going to work, coming home, paying the bills, repeat. Hanging out on forums, not much else. However I am outspoken and opinionated.

If I have nothing to hide why should I fear them?

Because if you don't fear them and mindlessly think you have nothing to worry about, you could wake up one day, under 24/7 surveillance, being electronically tortured in your home.

Outside of that, it comes back to the fact that we are suppose to be a democratic society. We have a right to not be monitored like this. It's not about if you have done nothing wrong. If you have done nothing wrong, you have a right to not be monitored like an animal, and you have a right to not have your freedom taken away from you, that's why.

It isnt to the stage of marshall law but frankly anything to prevent further increase in crime IMO is welcome.

That's the lie that keeps getting preached. It's for your own good, it will prevent crime, it will create a better society. Give us your freedom, your liberties, and we will make you safe. Those societies are not crime free either. The suicide rates in those societies are sky high. The mental illness rates in those societies were sky high. There is a trade off, and we will see that trade of. We will however never be crime free. We will be oppressed, and some people like that, some people do very well under those conditions, I do not, and I do not want a society like that. I find it so horrifying to see people snitching and spying, and not even thinking twice about it. I am all for people doing the right thing, but to be snitches for the state, is just gross and wrong. Be a good citizens, report a crime if you must, but don't be a snitch and I do see a difference between the two.

You mean nieghborhood watch association? Oh come on! I had one at my old living area and they were the worst people imaginable to report crime, seriously this isnt the KGB in russia its the local bobbies in the UK its no where NEAR comparable.

Don't know what the situation in the UK is, but I do know from what has been reported on the gang stalking sites, you sound like you have the same stuff happening over there, that is happening over here. In my Canadian city that I am in, we have snitches on the train, each car as over 85% passenger snitches. On most street corners there are snitches. In the work places. The last place I was at had 99% snitches. The one percent being me not snitching. The food courts, every place. I am pretty sure based on what I am seeing, we probably out number the stasi. We only have about 5-6 million in the city. Yet we have just about everyone taking part in these programs.

Come on, the government isnt interested in the mass public , its too open to variables. Its easier to control the variables than it is to control the crowd.

Yes they are, anything else is just a myth, that is used to give us a false sense of security.

Our police services/ armed services are in no way or shape able to do this on a country wide scale.

Not by themselves, but with snitches they can, and they are. That's how they will do it. They will get everyone to spy on everyone else. Thus using us to control us. That is how they will do it. The cameras and the id's cards, and chips or scan, will just be another level of insurance for them. They will use us, to suppress us. Just like they have enslaved people in other time periods.

Hi lemox.

These are the people that watch the lastest soaps, read celeb mags, and are too concerned with themselves to even think of others let alone society etc.

Unlike other times where people were poor and hurting, they have lulled us, with creature comforts. Instead of oppressing one way and saying let them eat cake. They will give us cake and candy, and so much that we will not want to willing give it up. (Like Ulysses men and the lotus eaters, or when he got stuck with Circe the witch. Wined and dined, not realising they were being fattened up for something else. Treat them really nice, make them forget their wills and their true course, till it's too late.)

classiclit.about.com...

The goddess conducted her guests to a seat, and had them served with wine and other delicacies. When they had feasted heartily, she touched them one by one with her wand, and they became immediately changed into swine, in “head, body, voice, and bristles,” yet with their intellects as before. She shut them in her sties and supplied them with acorns and such other things as swine love.

Ulysses sent three of his men to discover who the inhabitants were. These men on coming among the Lotus–eaters were kindly entertained by them, and were given some of their own food, the lotus–plant, to eat. The effect of this food was such that those who partook of it lost all thoughts of home and wished to remain in that country.

Some people do know whats happening but wont do anything about it. These types of people are those with families, commitments etc that dont want to 'upset' the way of society as it will jeapodise the survival of their family or interest.

These people can leave you jobless, homeless, and reputation-less. For most people they have been conditioned over the last 20 years to just go along with everything. Don't you all realise that in times past, the church was the center of things, or the family, or community. What's the center of things now? Who has control now? The media, the government, the tv, google? Who knows, but the moral structures that we had in place that could stop this, have been slowly eroded for the last several decades. Divorce why? Cause people are told they want to be happy, they don't want to sacrifice, they want instant gratification? So much has changed in society. We are taught that we can give in and have anything we want, no consequences, no deferred gratification. We are spoiled, and people are not going to give that stuff up easily for anything, even if it means giving up their freedoms, so they can hang onto this stuff.

Some people do know whats happening and do act, but from what I see compared to the rest of society they are in the minority.

They are in the minority, and the government will make sure that they are almost an extinct breed, before this fully comes into play. They are the ones who are going to be targeted before this comes into play fully. Get rid of those dissenting voices and then there will be nothing left to stand in your way. I was told that this is the way it is, when these types of governments come into affect. Activist and dissidents are blacklisted, or thrown into jail, or placed in mental institutions. Thus it begins.


Hi citizen smith.

Currently, mortgage and personal credit-debt levels are at unprecedented levels

That's the other thing I forgot. Unlike every other time in history they own many people with high credit card rates, high mortgages, debt that will take years to pay down, that is another thing that has changed as well.


[edit on 21-5-2007 by Harassment101]

Dude, your one seriously paranoid chap....

Anyhoo, I have one question which i think settles this whole "Police State" thing from the off...

Why, if they are so hell bent on implementing a Police State etc etc, did we go to so much effort in time, money and blood to stop the Nazi's.

We lost our Empire because of the Wars with Germany

If the British Elite wanted Total Control, they could have had it by teaming up with Nazi Germany and they would have ruled the world. They certainly had the opportunity.

But they didn't. Instead, they opted to fight and brought about the end of the greatest Empire ever seen on the face of the planet in the process because we believed passionately in human rights and *ahem*, Democracy.

(At this point I acknowledge that our form of Government is less than perfect, but hey, what other choices are there?)

Pretty counter productive, at least from the point of view of the UK....

Rule the World and have Total Control Vs End Fascism and lose the Empire.

We chose the latter.

Originally posted by Harassment101
I believed this such a long time ago, and I awoke to see that I was just so wrong. WE move one step forward, they have gone 20 paces ahead. They have everything wired in their favor. Their little disinfo agents. They have people in every sector of society. Tricking people into thinking that conspiracies are just that. I was one of those people. They have it so well wired, most of the people leading us, and telling us about these conspiracies, are more than likely working for them, or in league with them. The few real movements that come, probably do not last too long, or have to fight for their survival.

Look at the types of people you were when you revolted before. You had to work hard, and you were not strapped into the tube, making sure your favorite celebs life was ok. People had family views and values, it was what was at the core, that gave them the strength and independence to be who they were going to be. They were close back then, had a sense of community, and loyalty. That is why they are turning people into snitches first. Breaking down the family, and society. We will not have the foundations that we need to stop this. There is a method to their madness, and we are all falling into it.

Unlike other times where people were poor and hurting, they have lulled us, with creature comforts. Instead of oppressing one way and saying let them eat cake. They will give us cake and candy, and so much that we will not want to willing give it up. (Like Ulysses men and the lotus eaters, or when he got stuck with Circe the witch. Wined and dined, not realising they were being fattened up for something else. Treat them really nice, make them forget their wills and their true course, till it's too late.)

They are in the minority, and the government will make sure that they are almost an extinct breed, before this fully comes into play. They are the ones who are going to be targeted before this comes into play fully. Get rid of those dissenting voices and then there will be nothing left to stand in your way. I was told that this is the way it is, when these types of governments come into affect. Activist and dissidents are blacklisted, or thrown into jail, or placed in mental institutions. Thus it begins

Looks like we are both on the same page Harassment101. People seem to think that 'when the time comes' everyone will stand up and overthrow the government. The first thing is when will this time be? If anything I think its now before this country does become a true totalitarian state. As you say everything is wired in their favour. People feel 'comfortable' in their little cesspits of life. Fear of the unknown will stop a lot of people acting. If the government gets removed, what then? They control this society and if they're gone what would become of us? Were not equipped to deal with such a situation.

Things like threats of terrorists, criminals, the unknown, will stop people acting but also the psychological effect it would have on individuals. This society is very ego-based and characterised by instant-gratification (I want it now!). Most people are living in a world of fantasy were they take on the characters roles on TV, fantasy about being a celebrity, basically fantasize about everyone acknowledging and adoring them. I've found that its only people who don’t care about such things who are actually willing to do something, and these people are seen as strange and normally not accepted by everyone else anyway so how are they suppose to get further support in their actions?

Another thing is social programming. As Harassment101 made reference to, people have been programmed by TV, and the mass media not to revolt against those in charge, sit in line and wait, not make a fuss.

And what about the fluroide in the water making everyone passive (dare I go here!)

Originally posted by Harassment101
Hi devilwasp.

What about when this replaces all forms of id, and it's the only id?

Uhh yeah and how do you plan on leaving the country if you dont have a pssport? How do they plan on allowing 90% of thier goods to be brought into the country if they disallow discharge books?
Sorry mate but they wont replace every ID.

Originally posted by Harassment101
Don't know, why don't you tell me? I really don't know. My life before this was, going to work, coming home, paying the bills, repeat. Hanging out on forums, not much else. However I am outspoken and opinionated.

Yeah and what exactly makes you a threat compared to all the other well trained and heavily armed members of the public?

Because if you don't fear them and mindlessly think you have nothing to worry about, you could wake up one day, under 24/7 surveillance, being electronically tortured in your home.

Fear is the path to the darkside, the first step to stopping an evil is to confront your fear for them. I take it that you fear the government?

Outside of that, it comes back to the fact that we are suppose to be a democratic society. We have a right to not be monitored like this.

Yeah and WE choose to do this, we elected these officials and frankly we're in the power to stop them if we so wish.
We choose to have cameras because we dont have enough police to stop crime.

It's not about if you have done nothing wrong. If you have done nothing wrong, you have a right to not be monitored like an animal, and you have a right to not have your freedom taken away from you, that's why.

What freedom is that? The ability to walk down a street? They cant stop you doing that, infact they cant stop you without good cause. Come on man, ease off the caffine and walk into the real world, there is no nazi police force at work here and there is no new powers that can allow them to stop you from walking down the street.

That's the lie that keeps getting preached. It's for your own good, it will prevent crime, it will create a better society. Give us your freedom, your liberties, and we will make you safe.

Oh and I suppose that you'd prefer me to get mugged? Stabbed walking down the street? Or how about a good old militia rule huh? Power to the people and all that? How about bringing back hand guns? Hell lets go REALLLY back to the basics and just not have any laws?
Come on, I dont like the cameras but frankly unless we either get some police on the streets or atleast kitt them out correctly and cutt out the whole PC crap we are going to wallowing in filth soon.

Those societies are not crime free either. The suicide rates in those societies are sky high. The mental illness rates in those societies were sky high.

What! Your comparing suicides and mental illnesses to cameras and crime? Come on man, thats an entirely different area that rarely interacts with cameras. Suicicides happen every day for different reasons, you cant just blame cameras for suicides and mental illenesses...

I find it so horrifying to see people snitching and spying, and not even thinking twice about it.

You would rather I didnt report a crime and instead handle it "my way" instead of letting justice system handle it....ook then...I take it you also support extrememism then..

Don't know what the situation in the UK is, but I do know from what has been reported on the gang stalking sites, you sound like you have the same stuff happening over there, that is happening over here. In my Canadian city that I am in, we have snitches on the train, each car as over 85% passenger snitches.

Ok I'm going to stop you right there....Firstly I highlight the bold text , have you ever been in my country? Have you ever SEEN my country (Hell any part of the UK?) I have lived in england and scotland for over 18 years, I've travelled the country and been to almost all 4 corners of it, I've even worked offshore of the UK, hell I've sailed round the UK.
Dont try and localise my situation by saying: "You havent seen such and such", because I've been to some bad places but I've been in good places too and frankly the media blows it out of proportion...

Yes they are, anything else is just a myth, that is used to give us a false sense of security.
[/quote
Uh yeah and why would the government try and keep files on everyone, total survielance is almost impossible without SERIOUS and I mean really really serious computing and manpower and the UK lacks both of those. Its easier to control what you think via the media than it is to control citizens, why do you think the UK government can take control of the press and did so during the wars? To ensure they had complete control over the masses, as kane would say: "Control the media, control the war."

Not by themselves, but with snitches they can, and they are.

What are you joking me? Come on, "snitches"? Is this a 1980's cop film?
Our police forces can rarely handle small riots with 2 weeks notice, how do you think they would cope with a full scale revolution or even a mass protest against parliment?


Ease off the caffine bud and drink some earl grey or something to calm you down....

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

If you are by a radio, tune in NOW to BBC Radio2: Jeremy Vine, he's just about to debate the ID card issue with Colin Langham-Fitt, acting chief constable of Suffolk

edit to add: For those who missed it, there's a listen again feature that's available for the next week. Just follow the link and click on Tuesday's show


[edit on 22-5-2007 by citizen smith]

The National ID won't directly replace other forms of ID but what we will see is a gradual creep towards that point. At first it will only be required for reciept of a few select services or offer rewards for early take-up. Then it will become a 'tandem ID'...an extra peice of identification that will be needed to access healthcare, state-benefits, opening bank accounts, job applications and other vital facets of day-to-day life

We already have a private consumer-monitoring system in place that has many tens, even hundreds of thousands cross-linked and purchase-and-lifestyle-profiled on a database...news.bbc.co.uk...)" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">loyalty cards. Your reward for participation? a few pence off mass consumables and other 'Soma' products to keep you sated and quiet.

With regard to the announcement that the Home Office plans to encourage monitoring and 'pre-emptive' assessment and possible forced treatment of those deemed 'potentially violent' and in tandem to the proposed revision of the Mental Health Act, there is already a centralized NHS 'Spine' database being compiled to further this aim. (if this alarms you, you have the ability to opt out here)

As anecdotal evidence to the possible governmental mis-use of the NHS data, a friend of mine recently accessed their medical records and was horrified to discover that they had been recorded as 'a manic depressive with psychiatric problems' Why?

They had suffered a family bereavement and had taken their GP's offer of counselling to help the greiving process. They were told that any records of the sessions would remain confidential for the duration of the 10-weekly sessions and then destroyed. But instead, was uploaded onto the NHS database and is now a permanent record against their name. Under the proposed Home Office plan, my friend who is now labelled as a manic/psychiatric patient in their medical records could now be considered as a risk to themselves and wider society and as such, be forcibly treated and medicated.

Those of us here who are debating against the surveillance measures and the ever lengthening arm of the state could be potentially be considered as depressive/mentally unstable/paranoid (or whatever label you choose to use) and earmarked for further investigation under such powers

[edit on 22-5-2007 by citizen smith]

[edit on 22-5-2007 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by citizen smith

We stood, we fought, we lost.

But what is important is that, regardless, we stood and we fought

Not really, seems you are subscribing to the 'its not the winning but taking part that counts' mentality. This is all well and good but if nothing changes despite our actions it doesnt matter if we stood and fought or sat at home as it would have happened anyway. I'm going to ignore all those who say 'well if thats your attitude why bother' because you need to get out of the mentality that just because you did something it is a success. If nothing changes weve failed in our actions, as thats what we are there to do, to promote change. If your there because you are fullfilling the need to statifsy your own mind that you acted on something you felt strongly against then you are no better then the self-centred 'sheeple' of the rest of society, as you are acting on your own interests. These people at the deepest level are probably not actually bothered if the protest is a success or a failure, as 'the taking part' has fullfilled their need.

Originally posted by citizen smith
Those of us here who are debating against the surveillance measures and the ever lengthening arm of the state could be potentially be considered as depressive/mentally unstable/paranoid (or whatever label you choose to use) and earmarked for further investigation under such powers

This is along the lines of what I was saying earlier, with people being branded by the state as terrorists, or as you say mentally ill. Which is why it will be so hard to 'take action' in the near future. The time to act is now, but I dont see anyone jumping up, or mass demonstrations taking place.
Everyone seems to think that there will be some incident, at some time in the future where everone will know its time to stand, but that day will never come, instead our freedoms will continue to rot away under the emerging totalitarist state, the NWO.

Its an interesting thread this. Its gone pretty much how I thought it would.

Firstly it was started by an american concerned for us "poor Brits"

We have people who have only ever posted to one or two subjects before suddenly jumping out of the woodwork to proclaim how bad it is in the UK - which is strange in itself because you'd think they'd be making more of a stir about it.

We have people who don't live in this country at all telling us how bad it is.

We have a person who lives in two "countries"?? (obviously not British as we have counties here in the UK) saying how bad it is.

Then we have the good Citizen Smith (hello Wolfie - Tooting popluar front -Power to the people!) stirring the pot.

And then theres Stu, Dev and myself who are much more moderate, and British

You have to love ATS

I've seen an awful lot of this country, and in particular Stoke, Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool and Bradford. I see on average one or two policemen a week these days, living as I do in Huddersfield and working in Bradford. None of the places I've mentioned are/have been anywhere near as bad as I've seen them made out to be, and the notion of there being anything like a "police state" is laughable to me.

BTW, the last "uprising" in the UK was when Cromwell took over in the 1650's. Thats 358 years ago

Originally posted by neformore
We have a person who lives in two "countries"?? (obviously not British as we have counties here in the UK) saying how bad it is.

Well TECHNICALLY mate, we're four states under one union.
Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales.

Neformore... I never started this thread as a "poor Brits" thread. Can you read? Did you read what I wrote? I am TRYING to understand what is going on over there and how the citizenry feel and what they are doing in response. I haven't preached to you. I haven't condemned you. I haven't done anything to warrant this kind of a response. You need to take step down off of your pedestal my friend and appreciate that there are other poeple in the world who are interested and care.

I'm so glad that you are so brilliant and blessed with the power of prophecy to have seen in advance exactly how this thread would unfold - so why are you even here? You already knew what it would contain...

Originally posted by kozmo
Neformore...

I never started this thread as a "poor Brits" thread. Can you read? Did you read what I wrote? I am TRYING to understand what is going on over there and how the citizenry feel and what they are doing in response. I haven't preached to you. I haven't condemned you. I haven't done anything to warrant this kind of a response. You need to take step down off of your pedestal my friend and appreciate that there are other poeple in the world who are interested and care.

Yeah mate....sure sure...dont worry I believe you honuest...

I'm so glad that you are so brilliant and blessed with the power of prophecy to have seen in advance exactly how this thread would unfold - so why are you even here? You already knew what it would contain...

More like experience mate more than power (it'll go to his head if you mention power , as with englishman ) , he's probably trying to be the voice of reason but obviously this is not possible with the certain types of people on the board at the moment. Other than that he's probably saying : "Told you so!"

Originally posted by neformore
We have people who don't live in this country at all telling us how bad it is.

We have a person who lives in two "countries"?? (obviously not British as we have counties here in the UK) saying how bad it is.

The United Kingdom is a constitutional monarchy composed of four constituent countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

en.wikipedia.org...

You claim others are stirring the pot but thats all I see you doing.

Back to the topic at hand:

Totalitarinism:

Totalitarianism is a term to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.

Police state:

a totalitarian state in which political police secretly supervise and control citizens’ activities

en.wikipedia.org...
www.askoxford.com...

Sounds like what we have here, no?

[edit on 22-5-2007 by lemox]

[edit on 22-5-2007 by lemox]

BRAVO LEMOX! Very nice indeed! Yes, totalitarianism and a police state - sounds about right to me.

If I knew something was coming to my neighborhood to destroy it, would it not behoove me to speak to others who have already had the wrath upon them to gain their perspective and knowledge? Does it not make sense to investigate the many facets of this issue to find ways to combat it or defeat it altogether? Neformore doesn't think so...

Originally posted by kozmo
BRAVO LEMOX!

Very nice indeed! Yes, totalitarianism and a police state - sounds about right to me.

If you think either of those descriptions applies to the UK you are seriously deluded, because its neither. Those descriptions are apt to, say, North Korea, or the former East Germany and Soviet bloc countries but certainly not to the UK.

If I knew something was coming to my neighborhood to destroy it, would it not behoove me to speak to others who have already had the wrath upon them to gain their perspective and knowledge? Does it not make sense to investigate the many facets of this issue to find ways to combat it or defeat it altogether? Neformore doesn't think so...

On the contrary, I think that if the UK was turning into a police or totalitarian state I'd be on the front lines trying to stop it. After all I have relatives who fought in WW2 to prevent it from becoming such a thing, and I retain a pride in my country that is as equal to that any patriotic American may have.

What I think is that you have no concept, none, zero, nada, or idea of what you are talking about. You have been blessed not to have experienced a proper totalitarian regime, or a police state. You do not live in the UK or experience life here on a daily basis, and yet you are still choosing to label this country as such. Not only that but you are being patronising in suggesting that someone who lives here either doesn't care enough, or does not know/understand enough about the systems in place to be able to comment on them.

Show me - link me to subjects and media news - where people in the UK have disappeared because they did not agree with the current government. Show me where demonstrations are forcibly ended and dispersed and the ringleaders taken away and summararily executed, like what happened in Tianamen Squre. Point me at instances where secret police have raided houses in the middle of the night and dragged people away screaming in the UK. Show me instances where prisoners are routinely abused, tortured and violated. Show me where people are prevented from travelling from one part of the country to another without prior written permission. Show me secret prisons, gulags and political detention centres with "correctional" facilities. Do all that and THEN start talking to me about Police states and totalitarian regimes

Show me those things instead of sitting 4500 miles away typing a whole load of paranoid BS about cameras at petrol service stations that are there to stop the garage owners being ripped off by people driving away without paying for fuel, or cameras in stores that are designed to deter people from shoplifting, or cameras at accident blackspots designed to try and slow people down and prevent them from running stop signals, or cameras in city centres that are underpoliced and are there to try and either deter or CATCH criminals who carry out muggings, rapes, thefts, assaults etc - all of which are included in the number of cameras you quoted.

Show me those things and I'll start to take your police state talk seriously. Otherwise, like I said at the start, stop projecting your paranoia on my country.

Originally posted by lemox

Totalitarinism:

Totalitarianism is a term to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.

Police state:

a totalitarian state in which political police secretly supervise and control citizens’ activities

Sounds like what we have here, no?

I wouldn't say that we have that yet. The disturbing thing is the trend that is being created by installing more and more surveillance and legislation, that our society could end up in a police state.

It's not what we have now, but what we could have in the future that is what we should be thinking about.


But saying that, that definition of police state says that they secretly supervise and control our activities. Surely if they do it secretly then none of us would actually know anyway...

Malganis... that is what I've been saying all along! Obviously you're NOT in a total police state right now - or you wouldn't be posting here. That's for sure. But if certain people, like nefermore for example, simply opened their eyes and saw the DIRECTION that you are headed it would very simple to conclude that "police state" was the final destination.

Originally posted by lemox
You claim others are stirring the pot but thats all I see you doing.

Back to the topic at hand:

Totalitarinism:

Totalitarianism is a term to describe modern regimes in which the state regulates nearly every aspect of public and private behavior.

Police state:

a totalitarian state in which political police secretly supervise and control citizens’ activities

en.wikipedia.org...
www.askoxford.com...

Sounds like what we have here, no?

[edit on 22-5-2007 by lemox]

[edit on 22-5-2007 by lemox]

Then no offence mate but maybe you should recheck what your looking at, he's offering an opinion which IMO is very to the point. Many dont see the UK as 4 countries but simply as one but hey, be pedantic if you so wish we're british....we know how to be pedantic...we invented the word!
Also the UK government doesnt control the public, I havent been stopped from doing anything I like apart from shooting and thats a military matter not a legal one.

Originally posted by kozmo
Malganis... that is what I've been saying all along! Obviously you're NOT in a total police state right now - or you wouldn't be posting here. That's for sure. But if certain people, like nefermore for example, simply opened their eyes and saw the DIRECTION that you are headed it would very simple to conclude that "police state" was the final destination.

Mate you head in "that direction" when you first said to someone : "You cant kill someone" , isnt that infringing on thier RIGHT to kill someone?
After all who sets the rights of a people? The people or the government they elect who in turn ARE the people?
But then again...why listen to a stupid person who actually lives in that country and has actually been around the UK a bit and noticed these changes in security.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by kozmo
Malganis... that is what I've been saying all along! Obviously you're NOT in a total police state right now - or you wouldn't be posting here. That's for sure. But if certain people, like nefermore for example, simply opened their eyes and saw the DIRECTION that you are headed it would very simple to conclude that "police state" was the final destination.

Do you have any idea how patronising this is?

You seem to think that, because I disagree with your "police state" nonsense that I'm some kind of moron who can't form opinions of my own? So what makes you so special? - just because you live in America?
this kind of thing

Man charged with assault for criticising Dick Cheney

happens in your country and you are carping on about how mine is becoming a Police state because we have speed cameras?

I don't draw your conclusion at all. In fact from living in this country and experiencing it the conclusion I draw is that the number of cameras that are being used are an increasing example of deteriorating police numbers because of a huge amount of red tape, a piss poor legal system and a prosecution service that doesn't have the balls to put people away for a decent period of time and instead lets them back out onto the streets to re-offend.

[edit on 22/0507/07 by neformore]

[edit on 22/0507/07 by neformore]

I hold my hand up to 'stirring the pot' and being somewhat of a 'less than moderate' and more of a reactionary on the subject...but that's my right as a British citizen to express my right to free speech.

It's not an offence to carry a sharpened tongue or a blunt opinion in public as of yet!

The point I've been trying to make is that although we are a fair way from a totalitarian/police state at the moment, the legislation is being set in process as statute law, and as I have previously mentioned, once acts of parliament enter the Statute books, they become very hard to have removed.
They may be chosen to be ignored by present administrations as with the anecdote of medieval law for all 14yr old males legally required to practice at least 2hrs of archery every Sunday; but that can change with a simple house-motion to re-enforce that statute.

That is why I am so vocal on the subject...who knows what kind of administration will take the reins of power in the next 5..10...20 years and enact the currently proposed bills with unswerving duty.

And yes, there are many ways to play your part other than by direct action on the protest front-lines, and we are not near that point yet, but doing what you can, such as lobbying your local MP is a start in the right direction