UK Expands Surveillance!

Hi stumason.

Rule the World and have Total Control Vs End Fascism and lose the Empire.

We chose the latter.

So there is no third choice then. It's either global dominance and control of everyone and everything on the planet, or you are going to loose the empire? I think there are other choices that are not being explored, and I think to have people believe anything else is just good.

Also I don't think anyone here is being overly paranoid, if anything I remember that I was not paranoid enough a year ago, and I should have been. I just had no idea.


Hi lemox.

If the government gets removed, what then? They control this society and if they're gone what would become of us? Were not equipped to deal with such a situation.

I would not know what to do without the government at first either. I don't know enough about how this system works, or how to go about setting up a new one. I think that is why they would rather become enslaved, than do something about what is happening.

Most people are living in a world of fantasy were they take on the characters roles on TV, fantasy about being a celebrity, basically fantasize about everyone acknowledging and adoring them. I've found that its only people who don’t care about such things who are actually willing to do something, and these people are seen as strange and normally not accepted by everyone else anyway so how are they suppose to get further support in their actions?

From middle school, to high school, and onwards, we are told and taught which Gods to worship and we buy into it so easily.

And what about the fluroide in the water making everyone passive (dare I go here!)

Oh please go there. I didn't know about that stuff till about a year ago either, when I started to go looking for the truth in a lot of other things. Passive control people. My city uses fluoride in the water, but another major city does not and their teeth are just fine. I bet they are less passive and controlled.


Hi devilwasp.

That is going to be the idea however. One cashless id, that has medical, travel, purchase, identity etc. Eventually we will have one id, and it will most likely be scanned onto us, and we will not be able to buy, sell purchase, or travel without it. Don't leave home without it, don't worry, you won't be able to.

Right now they are verichiping people with Alzheimer's, I read that another country wants to micro chip newborns The idea will probably pass after a rash of kidnappings no doubt.

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Microchipping newborns, plans underway in Europe and Us.

Yeah and what exactly makes you a threat compared to all the other well trained and heavily armed members of the public?

Don't know. Never been armed in my life. Hate those things.

I take it that you fear the government?

Don't know that I fear them, more than now realise that they are capable of evil, of hurting, destroying, and torturing innocent people in their homes, and livelihoods. It's more like realising that someone you trusted is a sociopath.

We choose to have cameras because we dont have enough police to stop crime.

I don't choose to have cameras, and I really doubt they will stop crime the way everyone is being told. What they will do is control society that much more.

They cant stop you doing that, infact they cant stop you without good cause. Come on man, ease off the caffine and walk into the real world, there is no nazi police force at work here and there is no new powers that can allow them to stop you from walking down the street.

I am very much in the real world now. A year ago I was not. I believe and thought the way you did. Then I woke up to what can only be described as a living nightmare. I realised that others were in the exact same situation and had been for some time, and this was ongoing, without a word from our media, or any of those agencies that are suppose to be there to protect human rights. It's all bs. I am in the real world now, and compared to what I thought a year ago, I did not and would not have believed, had I not been able to bear witness for myself. There is a police state at work, in progress. Most people who are in a police state have no idea, till it's usually too late. Cause no one really ever thinks their government will go all fascist on them. Just like the movie V4 Vendetta. I think that is a pretty good movie, and it shows how this can happen. They scare you, and you give up your freedoms to them.

What freedom is that? The ability to walk down a street? They

The freedom to not be watched and tracked like an animal. The freedom to not have our every move observed. To not have everything said and typed recorded, for God knows what reason. The thing that makes us human. Our right to privacy.

Maybe after 10 months of realising what's happening, and being under 24/7 surveillance, I know what it's like to live without privacy, and I can tell you, we have a right to our privacy. I am free to walk down the street, but I am watched, and you feel it inside. It's a violation. I have a right to not be observed like some zoo animal. You have a right also. I can tell you what this future society will feel like, cause I am living it and feeling it acutely now. I can also tell you, I really do have no idea why. (I have got theories, but no real way of knowing for sure.)

Oh and I suppose that you'd prefer me to get mugged? Stabbed walking down the street?

Do you really think cameras will stop that? All they will do is after the fact say, yes we are looking for an assailant that looks like this, unless they put on a mask first, then you are out of luck.

women.timesonline.co.uk...

Would an implanted chip help to keep my child safe?
In the wake of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, every type of child monitoring device is in demand

Couldn't have seen that coming. Can't wait for the soldiers to be found due to micro-chipping.

and cutt out the whole PC crap we are going to wallowing in filth soon.

I guess we have to choose the filth we want to wallow in. I did not choose the current police state like conditions and I don't like them, so I will clearly not choose those conditions. I also do not want criminals walking loose on the street, but that would require a whole shake up of society, from ground up to change that. Work and sacrifice, things we are not willing to do. We want quick and easy fix it solutions for problems that have been allowed to fester for years.

Suicicides happen every day for different reasons, you cant just blame cameras for suicides and mental illenesses...

I was not so much blaming the cameras, as I was totalitarian, or police states for higher suicide rates and mental illness.

Dont try and localise my situation by saying: "You havent seen such and such", because I've been to some bad places but I've been in good places too and frankly the media blows it out of proportion...

I am still going to give feedback, because I am getting reports back from others who are there, that say the situation is becoming bad. Police state bad.

What are you joking me? Come on, "snitches"? Is this a 1980's cop film?
Our police forces can rarely handle small riots with 2 weeks notice, how do you think they would cope with a full scale revolution or even a mass protest against parliment?


Ease off the caffine bud and drink some earl grey or something to calm you down....

Not joking. Wishing to good I was joking. If you really are unaware, then I feel happy for you, and sad for you at the same time. Actually I feel quite calm and rational, but I do thank you for your suggestion. A good cup of tea can always be appreciated.


Hi citizen smith.

The National ID won't directly replace other forms of ID but what we will see is a gradual creep towards that point. At first it will only be required for reciept of a few select services or offer rewards for early take-up. Then it will become a 'tandem ID'...an extra peice of identification that will be needed to access healthcare, state-benefits, opening bank accounts, job applications and other vital facets of day-to-day life

Oh not by any means, not right away. I was just jumping ahead. Eventually the banks will tell you that they have switched over to the card system and it can store all the banking info. You won't need the debit and that card. It's down the line, but eventually one id for everything, and you will carry the id, because it will be branded onto you. I am jumping ahead however.

As anecdotal evidence to the possible governmental mis-use of the NHS data, a friend of mine recently accessed their medical records and was horrified to discover that they had been recorded as 'a manic depressive with psychiatric problems' Why?

That's pretty bad.

Under the proposed Home Office plan, my friend who is now labelled as a manic/psychiatric patient in their medical records could now be considered as a risk to themselves and wider society and as such, be forcibly treated and medicated.

Here your friend could be listed as EDP, (Emotionally disturbed person) the police get trigger happy when they see this, and that presents another problem. That's truly horrible. In a moment of grief they go for help and this happens.

Those of us here who are debating against the surveillance measures and the ever lengthening arm of the state could be potentially be considered as depressive/mentally unstable/paranoid (or whatever label you choose to use) and earmarked for further investigation under such powers

You have no idea. When these sorts of societies come into play, that's what they do. Then the activists and dissidents are deemed mental, a threat, they are some of the first to go, or be blacklisted, so they can't survive or function. They clear them out of the way first. Some will kill themselves, be imprisoned, institutionalised, or just have their livelihoods trashed. Then they move on the the less challenging folks, who will fall in line after the examples they have seen.

Everyone seems to think that there will be some incident, at some time in the future where everone will know its time to stand, but that day will never come, instead our freedoms will continue to rot away under the emerging totalitarist state, the NWO.

It's the reason some of the Jews in Germany did not high tail and get out. They had lived their for hundreds of years, it was there country, they could not, would not believe that those things would happen, even when periodic reports came back, even when this law was changed and that law, they still trusted. The same way we are trusting, even as we see constitutions being gutted, and laws changed, that take away our rights.


Hi neformore.

Those descriptions are apt to, say, North Korea, or the former East Germany and Soviet bloc countries but certainly not to the UK.

Yes but those countries were not always that way. We should start a thread about what a police state looks like and how to recognise one, cause most people do not in the early stages.

Show me those things and I'll start to take your police state talk seriously. Otherwise, like I said at the start, stop projecting your paranoia on my country.

It's a fair request, but some of those things might just be a little down the line.

In the begging of a police state, you won't get all that you asked for till much later. That's why I suggested the thread on what is a police state, so we can be clear.


Hi malganis.

But saying that, that definition of police state says that they secretly supervise and control our activities. Surely if they do it secretly then none of us would actually know anyway

They were cognizant in the former East Germany. Just not always of how widespread everything was.

Originally posted by Harassment101
That is going to be the idea however. One cashless id, that has medical, travel, purchase, identity etc. Eventually we will have one id, and it will most likely be scanned onto us, and we will not be able to buy, sell purchase, or travel without it. Don't leave home without it, don't worry, you won't be able to.

Right now they are verichiping people with Alzheimer's, I read that another country wants to micro chip newborns The idea will probably pass after a rash of kidnappings no doubt.

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Microchipping newborns, plans underway in Europe and Us.

We are not the US and I'm pretty sure no one is quite happy having a card implanted into our skins just yet, I know the alzhiiemers clinics and they do not chip people. They are the most useless people I know.
They will not remove passports and they will not remove drivers liceances because A) having both both paper and card proof that you actually can drive is better than having 1 single card with no backup.

Don't know. Never been armed in my life. Hate those things.

You dont own knifes?

Don't know that I fear them, more than now realise that they are capable of evil, of hurting, destroying, and torturing innocent people in their homes, and livelihoods. It's more like realising that someone you trusted is a sociopath.

Then you should realise they have the power to do so without the need to make it official, hell have you heard what went on in northern ireland?

I don't choose to have cameras, and I really doubt they will stop crime the way everyone is being told. What they will do is control society that much more.

Woah there nelly lets back that up a second, your first word: "I" , that is not how you class a society, MY definition of "Safe" will not be the same as yours I can guartentee that. YOU (The people) elected these people to protect you, if you cant trust them then why did you vote?
They cannot control society! They can fool it , they can confuse it and they can sheppard it but they cannot control it!

I am very much in the real world now. A year ago I was not. I believe and thought the way you did. Then I woke up to what can only be described as a living nightmare. I realised that others were in the exact same situation and had been for some time, and this was ongoing, without a word from our media, or any of those agencies that are suppose to be there to protect human rights. It's all bs. I am in the real world now, and compared to what I thought a year ago, I did not and would not have believed, had I not been able to bear witness for myself. There is a police state at work, in progress. Most people who are in a police state have no idea, till it's usually too late. Cause no one really ever thinks their government will go all fascist on them. Just like the movie V4 Vendetta. I think that is a pretty good movie, and it shows how this can happen. They scare you, and you give up your freedoms to them.

There is no police state, there is no conspiricy and there is no fascist government! They cannot control a riot in a city never mind the full country, my god did you see thier ineffectiveness against greenpeace protestors at faslane (hippie scum anyway)?
They dont frighten me because I know one fact; the only thing we need to fear is fear itself. Fear is a tool and weapon used by those who wish to push and prod us like cattle, realise what they are and the fear will not longer exist.

The freedom to not be watched and tracked like an animal. The freedom to not have our every move observed. To not have everything said and typed recorded, for God knows what reason. The thing that makes us human. Our right to privacy.

What privacy? Your on a public street! It doesnt get much more not private than that!
The cameras are in public areas not in your home!

Maybe after 10 months of realising what's happening, and being under 24/7 surveillance, I know what it's like to live without privacy, and I can tell you, we have a right to our privacy. I am free to walk down the street, but I am watched, and you feel it inside. It's a violation. I have a right to not be observed like some zoo animal. You have a right also. I can tell you what this future society will feel like, cause I am living it and feeling it acutely now. I can also tell you, I really do have no idea why. (I have got theories, but no real way of knowing for sure.)

24/7 get real, unless you live in a public street int he heart of a city then sorry your being watched 24/7. They build walls for a reason you know, so what people see where you live...it doesnt take a genious to look at a letter box name plate or simply ask : "Who lives there?"

Do you really think cameras will stop that? All they will do is after the fact say, yes we are looking for an assailant that looks like this, unless they put on a mask first, then you are out of luck.

Actually it can alert people to people sneaking up you, direct coppers , ambulances, hell even help catch the buggers. Its the second best to having a copper on the beat.

Originally posted by Harassment101
Couldn't have seen that coming. Can't wait for the soldiers to be found due to micro-chipping.

Uhh yeah, its a suggestion, like they havent been around for a while. Its their right to ask that question, simpley cowering away from it and denying going in that direction at all doesnt resolve the issue.

I guess we have to choose the filth we want to wallow in. I did not choose the current police state like conditions and I don't like them, so I will clearly not choose those conditions. I also do not want criminals walking loose on the street, but that would require a whole shake up of society, from ground up to change that. Work and sacrifice, things we are not willing to do. We want quick and easy fix it solutions for problems that have been allowed to fester for years.

We want something that will keep us safe, we are no where near a police state. As I have said the answer is more bobbies on the beat and more funding for propper equipment.

I was not so much blaming the cameras, as I was totalitarian, or police states for higher suicide rates and mental illness.

Pfft they happen everyday in completly democractic and free socities, simply being watched will not dramatically increase the suicide rates any more than allowing the pubs to open earlier.

I am still going to give feedback, because I am getting reports back from others who are there, that say the situation is becoming bad. Police state bad.

Well your mates must live in some weird ass part of the UK because I've been to almost all 4 countries, almost all 4 corners of the mainland and lived in two of the countries.

Not joking. Wishing to good I was joking. If you really are unaware, then I feel happy for you, and sad for you at the same time. Actually I feel quite calm and rational, but I do thank you for your suggestion. A good cup of tea can always be appreciated.

Unaware? There is nothing to be "unaware" about, the UK does not operate a snitch orginisation against its own citizens, the police have much better things to do than see what old misses higgens is doing in her coffee shop with mr blackadder.



[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

I get the impression, DW, that Harassment101 believes he is being watched and followed by the Government as of now and it all started a year ago....

Operative word there is "believes".....

Personally, I don't think he is being followed but rather something else..... if you catch my drift..

Hi devilwasp.

I know the alzhiiemers clinics and they do not chip people.

Are you sure?

www.newscientist.com...

At issue is the facility's plan to implant 200 patients with microchips manufactured and donated by VeriChip of nearby Delray Beach. When scanned, the chip reveals a unique ID number, which when entered into a password-protected database gives access to medical information about its owner.

If the plan goes ahead, it will be the first time the technology has been tried on a group of people with a specific mental impairment. The forgetfulness that comes with Alzheimer's can make it impossible for people with the condition to pass on vital information when faced with a medical emergency, which is why advocates are keen to make use of RFID chips with this group.

They are planning to go ahead with it on these people, if the articles that came out recently are true. I think it's just not right.

Others have gotten the chip to allow them to bypass long lines when they go clubbing. (How shallow.)

Others have gotten it for business purposes.

You dont own knifes?

Don't tend to go out in public with them though. I own a frying pan also, which can be a weapon, but again don't go out in public with it.

What privacy? Your on a public street! It doesnt get much more not private than that!
The cameras are in public areas not in your home!

Although I am personally being survelled in my home, audio, what not. The cameras are not in your home yet, but give them and inch, and they will eventually take the full mile and there will be no one around to protest.

24/7 get real, unless you live in a public street int he heart of a city then sorry your being watched 24/7.

You will have to forgive me, but I know my own personal situation better than you do. For some reason at some point in the past 7-10 year range, someone with the power to do so, has got me being covertly put under surveillance. I became aware of this 10 months ago. When I say I am under 24/7 surveillance I kid you not.

Since moving into this location, because of surveillance and the noise harassment that came with it after I realised what was happening, and the fact that all the neighbours on 3 sides were assisting I moved.

Since moving. My neighbours upstairs, downstairs and to the side have changed, since I have been here and the same thing is happening again.

At work, the civilian spy force, my co-workers, literally keep an eye on my comings and goings. Then when I am out in public, the snitch force that we have in every city, that use stasi like signals to communicate follow me everywhere I go.

I am not a dangerous person, I have never been. I am outspoken, researched a lot of stuff in my time, and am anti-war. I understand that some of the above, can get you set up for this stuff. Also I discovered that my government opened files on 800,000 Canadians at our colleges and universities. (www.spying101.com...) Wither this is where the drama started, I have no idea. I just know that I am in a drama that I never expected to be in.

I do not jest when I say that I am under 24/7 surveillance. Just look up the term gang stalking. Or look up Cointelpro, or covert investigations. This has become my life. Before this, I was an average citizen, going about my business. I am considered the one that lives within the laws, and boundaries by those who know me, so if this could happen to someone like me, you bet it can happen to others.

Just so we are clear, on what I am saying. I am not making a joke about that aspect of my life. Though I sort of wish I was.

Pfft they happen everyday in completly democractic and free socities, simply being watched will not dramatically increase the suicide rates any more than allowing the pubs to open earlier.

Still trying to find the states on the mental illness rates for you, on that. Usually I am better organised.

Unaware? There is nothing to be "unaware" about, the UK does not operate a snitch orginisation against its own citizens

Actually according to my fellow gang stalking targets who live over there, and who I have communicated with you do. Had someone told me a year ago, that my country, much less my city had a wall to wall snitch program, I would have laugh them silly. Now I am not laughing.

I can't make you believe it if you are not aware of it, but you do have civilian spies, the same as the US, the same as Canada. Using Stasi like signals to communicate.

Just so we are clear on what Stasi like signal are.

These include things like tapping the side of the nose, corner of the eye, brushing back the hair 3 times, the infamous double blink, etc.

Here is a list of Stasi signals that the East German Army use to use. Stasi secret police. www.nthposition.com...

SIGNALS FOR OBSERVATION

1. Watch out! Subject is coming - touch nose with hand or handkerchief

2. Subject is moving on, going further, or overtaking - stroke hair with hand, or raise hat briefly

3. Subject standing still - lay one hand against back, or on stomach

4. Observing Agent wishes to terminate observation because cover threatened - bend and retie shoelaces

5. Subject returning - both hands against back, or on stomach

6. Observing Agent wishes to speak with Team Leader or other Observing Agents - take out briefcase or equivalent and examine contents.

Just like with Cointelpro the government will open up a covert investigation, and have you followed 24/7. Your employer, landlord, co-workers, community family, friends will be contacted and asked to spy on you. This has been happening how long in society? I had never heard these terms before last year, and I did not know such things could happen, till I found out it was happening to me. So I am sorry to burst your bubble, you don't sound like you will believe this any more than I would have a year ago, but should you ever wake up, there is lots of research there, so you will not have to struggle like some of us did.

Have you ever seen the movie the lives of others? Neither have I, but it's my understanding that my life resembles his life, with the 24/7 monitoring. I also as far as I am aware am an innocent person, and I am not clear why this is being done, or rather I am not clear why this was put into play. I do have some notions, but getting confirmation is quite another story. I have been able to find out some of the slander being spread however.

stumason
Destroyer of Ignorance
Hunter of the Stupid.

Yeah, got to love that. Believe what you will. I know what I know.

Originally posted by Harassment101
Are you sure?

Considering my grandfather (80 btw) escaped from one, hiked over 15 miles in the pouring rain and wind across fields and foot paths trying to get to glasgow only a few weeks ago I'd say so.
We only found out that he was gone when the policeman turned up at my grans door and told us he had walked out onto a road and simply got in a persons car while waiting at the red light.

They are planning to go ahead with it on these people, if the articles that came out recently are true. I think it's just not right.

Others have gotten the chip to allow them to bypass long lines when they go clubbing. (How shallow.)

Others have gotten it for business purposes.

Uh yeah and is that the general public? Is that in the general NHS service? Hmm? I dont think so...

Don't tend to go out in public with them though. I own a frying pan also, which can be a weapon, but again don't go out in public with it.

Well then you own a weapon, whether or not you go out in the street with them is inconsequntial. A knife can be just as deadly as a rifle, infact more so.

Although I am personally being survelled in my home, audio, what not. The cameras are not in your home yet, but give them and inch, and they will eventually take the full mile and there will be no one around to protest.

What! Lol your being survied by the UK government inside canadian territory? Woah, wait a second.....are you osama? Come on you can tell me honuest I wont tell!
They wont get inside your house because A) ministers like thier privacy too and well they wont want police being able to watch them. and B) It wont happen.

You will have to forgive me, but I know my own personal situation better than you do. For some reason at some point in the past 7-10 year range, someone with the power to do so, has got me being covertly put under surveillance. I became aware of this 10 months ago. When I say I am under 24/7 surveillance I kid you not.

OOOkaaay then......what ever you say mate....whatever you say....

Since moving into this location, because of surveillance and the noise harassment that came with it after I realised what was happening, and the fact that all the neighbours on 3 sides were assisting I moved.

And the spiral into paranioa continues.....oh sorry was I thinking outloud...

Still trying to find the states on the mental illness rates for you, on that. Usually I am better organised.

Go ahead mate...you just take your time....

Actually according to my fellow gang stalking targets who live over there, and who I have communicated with you do. Had someone told me a year ago, that my country, much less my city had a wall to wall snitch program, I would have laugh them silly. Now I am not laughing.

Uhh yeah, mate have you ever even seen a Union jack? Or hell maybe even a Union?
Seriously your mate must be drinking some high grade coffee...he's eating pure coffee is he?

Just like with Cointelpro the government will open up a covert investigation, and have you followed 24/7. Your employer, landlord, co-workers, community family, friends will be contacted and asked to spy on you. This has been happening how long in society? I had never heard these terms before last year, and I did not know such things could happen, till I found out it was happening to me. So I am sorry to burst your bubble, you don't sound like you will believe this any more than I would have a year ago, but should you ever wake up, there is lots of research there, so you will not have to struggle like some of us did.

Riiiiiiiiggghhtt then mate.....I can really see why the UK government would like to follow an 18 year old part time canoeing instructor/engineer/sea cadet instructor.....yeah....major terrorist here....better get on the phone to whitehall to order the black knights here..

Stue....this man frightens me.....

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Hey! can we have some civility here please!

I know you like to play devil's advocate DW, but your last post crossed the line

The debate at hand is with regard to the surveillance state...

Originally posted by citizen smith
Hey! can we have some civility here please!

I know you like to play devil's advocate DW, but your last post crossed the line

The debate at hand is with regard to the surveillance state...

Sorry mate but there are limits to my patience and someone from another country trying to tell me what my country is like....just doesnt fit..

Originally posted by devilwasp
Sorry mate but there are limits to my patience and someone from another country trying to tell me what my country is like....just doesnt fit..

Don't denigrate...Educate!

Originally posted by citizen smith

Don't denigrate...Educate!

Isn't that what Devil, Stu and myself have been trying to do? Thats the whole point of what I've been saying - Harrassment is in Canada, not in the UK. We ARE in the UK.

And tbh, the last couple of posts from our friends on the other side of the Atlantic have gotten ridiculous.

Originally posted by neformore
..the last "uprising" in the UK was when Cromwell took over in the 1650's. Thats 358 years ago

Actually, the last 'uprising' was within living memory...the 1978-79 Winter of Discontent

..January 22 saw a "Day of Action" held by public sector unions, following several strikes of railwaymen that had already begun. With 1.5 million workers out, the day marked the largest general stoppage of work in the UK since the General Strike of 1926..

[edit on 23-5-2007 by citizen smith]

Yet another additional form of surveillance is about to be rolled-out in my home-town of Manchester later this month. Traffic Wardens are to get head-mounted cameras as well as an extension of powers to issue on-the-spot fine-notices.

BBC News: UK Traffic wardens to get video cameras
Traffic attendants in Salford are to become the first in the UK to record their work on video...New legislation enables the attendants to hand out tickets for activities including littering, flyposting, graffiti and allowing dogs to foul the pavement.

There have been numerous investigations into the 'for-profit' target-driven activities by the private companies that operate these Traffic Warden contracts and the whole scheme is open to abuse

Daily Telegraph: Traffic Wardens' powers open to abuse
..No parking attendant was prepared to speak publicly for fear of being reprimanded, but all spoken to by The Telegraph said the new scheme was open to widespread abuse.

"It would be ridiculous to give parking attendants the added responsibility to issue tickets for moving offences," one warden said in Westminster, central London.

"The new recruits are given only two weeks of training before they go out on the streets and one person I was with this morning could not even read a time-plate showing parking restrictions.

"If a driver shouted at me, I could make up that they had driven up a one-way road the wrong way."

A parking attendant working in Camden, north London, said: "Drivers will say we are making up claims but if we are asked to fine motorists for driving offences then I will try to catch as many as I can."

Enough is bloody enough!!

[edit on 23-5-2007 by citizen smith]

[edit on 23-5-2007 by citizen smith]

It is very interesting what is happening in the UK.
I'm never sure what to make of it because I get the impression that its often the free (?) media -largely tabloid newspapers that bring up nonsense about endless terrorism threats, illegal immigrants 'stealing' all 'our' jobs, high crime rates, and death from anything thats not 100% safe.
Unfortunatley we're one of the few countries in the world that doesnt have a clearly written constitution (often its said we dont have one at all, which is incorrect) but it is so mixed up, and easy to alter it may as well not exist because no typical man off the street can get hold of it easily or understand it to quote (for anyone interested britishconstitution.blogspot.com...), we do also have our bill of rights, which again is 100% irrelevant as it is perfectly legal for parliament to make any new law it see's fit wether it fits or not (en.wikipedia.org...) a good example is "freedom to have arms for defence, as allowed by law " which anyone in the UK will know is not true at all today.
Basically to cut a long and nearly going off point post short what i meen is that unlike the US and many many other nations you will rarely see anyone quote any of our lawsin defence of their civil liberties, instead they worry much more about which house on their road Bin Laden is going to blow up, whats going to happen if they do 45mph in a 40 zone and how second hand smoke will kill them in a week and a half.

Well, apparently I'm NOT permitted to comment anymore as I am NOT from the UK. I guess having an opinion on something is invalid if you are not living in that country - so sad!

Well, have fun discussing your impending police state and surveillance society and SMILE PRETTY FOR THE CAMERA!!!

Hello guys,

I have read this whole thread and I feel I have to say something for the ones who're ready to live in a world without any privacy and freedom of thinking/acting.

First of all, I am from Romania. Yes, it's that Romania from where the above-mentioned "Romanian type immigrants" are coming.
Despite of the fact that Romania is far from a perfect country - I know that and I will never deny it -, I want to remind the scared-by-Romanians guy that we have here, in our prisons, few British citizens charged by mollesting and raping Romanian kids and also few British cons.
There are also Belgians, a French guy and - damn! - an American, the famous Kurt Treptow, who also filmed the kids - 9 - 12 year old boys, actually - he raped and ****ed in every hole.
So speaking as a decent human being, please stop mocking around about the Evil-Romanian-Immigrants-Who-Want-To-Take-Over-Britain". Period.

Now, returning to the subject.

I am 39 so I lived in the communist era here, I felt it on my own skin - and bones, I might say. For those with less knowledges about this matter, Romania was ruled by communists between 1945 and 1989.

You guys who aren't worried at all about your rights to own your private space, let me tell you something: you have absolutely no idea about living in a psychological / physical prison in size of a country.
During the communist regime, the secret police - Security, based on the Romanian word - was so active that it has been able to infiltrate everywhere, from kindergardens, spying on kids and their parents to the churches where the dead ones were starting their last road to the grave.
Of course, the technology wasn't so advanced then but hear this: imagine you were stand on a looong line in front of an empty store, waiting for some so low quality food that even a pig would refuse. Standing there for hours - from 3 a.m. to 5 p.m., it's true! - only to get some chicken legs ( legs! the ones with claws on them! ) you say: "Damn these bastards, they keep us starving on purpose!" and guess what: the guy behind you pulls an ID, says "Secret police, come with me", grabs your arm, throws you in a car and for the next month you find yourself in the cell. The guards beat you 3-4 times a day, they don't let you sleep, they keep you starving, no shower, no phonecall, noone from your family knows anything about you.
This is a real scene, which actually happened.

Your 14 y.o. kid can be the one who turns you in because you're listening Radio Free Europe or Voice of America; your brother can be one of them, the priest you're confessing to is one of them in 80 cases from 100, you're watched everywhere on the streets, on the working place, you are afraid to talk to anyone because you don't know who are you talking to - it could be one of them.

From 10 millions phones, around 6 millions were tapped; the letters were intercepted, the typing machines were recorded to the police, in the TVs were microphones, in the ashtrays on restaurants were microphones, on the parks were directional microphones in the trees, agents were on every street corner, standing there and watching everyone's move, bank accounts were monitored - citizens weren't suppose to own other money than romanian ones - your neighbour could be the one who send reports about you to the police. They had one person on every 20 families who actually spied on them, reporting every move to the police. The travels abroad were forbidden and if you had enough guts to ask for a passport you were actually had your name written on a "suspects list"; you could end being fired, your wife could be fired, your kids could be thrown away from any school.

These aren't exagerations, guys... ask any Romanian immigrant about this. Feeling yourself like the candle in a lamp, watched and listened from everywhere, trust me, it's a special feeling. You have to feel it to understand... search about suicide rate during those years in Romania.

Cheers!

Originally posted by citizen smith
Hey! can we have some civility here please!

I know you like to play devil's advocate DW, but your last post crossed the line

The debate at hand is with regard to the surveillance state...

No it didnt cross the line at all. I would support all he has siad as well as the last line

I think the harassment chappy has certain errrrrrrrr problems

Originally posted by kozmo
Well, apparently I'm NOT permitted to comment anymore as I am NOT from the UK. I guess having an opinion on something is invalid if you are not living in that country - so sad!

Well, have fun discussing your impending police state and surveillance society and SMILE PRETTY FOR THE CAMERA!!!

No offence mate but you are not telling me what my country is like, your hinting at what direction its going in but frankly you havent tried to tell me what my country is like.

Mate unlike the US we are not afraid of our government because we have overthrown it once and can do it again quite easily.

What's the betting that the 3 terrorism suspects that have just been announced by the media as being on the run and at-large will be the incident that hails the surveillance network as a success and instrumental in their capture.

You guys seen this

www.thisislo... ndon.co.uk/news/article-23397459-details/'Flying+saucer'+police+spy+camera+takes+to+the+skies/article.do


Almost like something from "Dark Angel"


Damned links
[edit on 24-5-2007 by Harper_]

[edit on 24-5-2007 by Harper_]

[edit on 24-5-2007 by Harper_]