UK Expands Surveillance!

Originally posted by completenuttergit
..about to loose the right to have a smoke in a public place too , I heard we are not allowed to even smoke in " our own cars " get that!!!!

That's just not cricket!

Originally posted by citizen smith
That's just not cricket!

No its sensible and about bloody time!
Seriously you ask any health official if you should smoke and they will shout back with a resounding no, believe them if you want but I doubt many of you have ever been to a smoking clinic or even met someone who doesnt have much of thier lungs left. I have and its not pretty....but dont listen to me because I'm just a tool of the system , right?

Ah whats the use , really, if no one is going to listen to someone who has spent thier life trying to heal people then whats the point in telling them. Should just look after ones own and say: "Well I told you so." when it comes round and bites you in the ass.

Even though smoking serves no other purpose than to fill your lungs with crap and tar, I still reserve the right to smoke.

I can understand wanting to create smoke-free public areas, but to extend that restriction to personal and vehicular space?

If the surveillance network is as advanced in its roll-out as we are led to believe, there are going to be many smokers caught out by this summer's pending public smoking ban and fined on the spot for lighting up in public

Originally posted by citizen smith
Even though smoking serves no other purpose than to fill your lungs with crap and tar, I still reserve the right to smoke.

I can understand wanting to create smoke-free public areas, but to extend that restriction to personal and vehicular space?

If the surveillance network is as advanced in its roll-out as we are led to believe, there are going to be many smokers caught out by this summer's pending public smoking ban and fined on the spot for lighting up in public

Soryr but I havent heard of anyone being arrested for smoking in thier own homes, not one person. In the car on the way to work, yes. Your still in a public space , sorry but thats the fact.

US '' democracy '' vs UK democracy

Just ponder this. One family, the Bush family has ruled the US for donkeys years. Bush senior head of UN then head of CIA then VP for 8 years then President for 4 years then his son becomes president for 8 years.

How is this democratic??

O and by the way the Bush blood line is connected to the British Royal family so I understand.

[edit on 19-5-2007 by pippadee]

Originally posted by devilwasp
In the car on the way to work, yes. Your still in a public space , sorry but thats the fact

I can understand the reasoning from a traffic-safety point of veiw, much for the same reasons for banning the use of hand-held mobile phones whilst driving.

But the idea that you are putting others at risk from passive smoking whilst sitting in your car in rush-hour traffic, motor idling and pumping out 100x times more toxins in exhaust pollutants than a pesky lil cigarette ever could is just plain daft

Listen.

The post about not being allowed to smoke in your own car is total and utter crap.

READ the legislation. Its quite clear.

No smoking in public buildings.
No smoking in shared use vehicles for working purposes.

The idea being that second hand smoke can be just as damaging over prolonged periods for people subjected to it as smoking is for the person who does it.

There is NOTHING AT ALL in the legislation about not being able to smoke in private houses or private cars, which makes me wonder how "legitimate" some of these supposed "uk" posters are, because by now they ought to have heard about it and read whats going to happen - and aside from that, its only comparable with laws that were first introduced in the USA - so how is that exactly making the UK more of a Police state than the US?

As for the post that asked me to put up an apology - seriously, what the hell??? Someone from Holland wants me to post an apology about my day to day experiences of my own country - just because they saw something on Discovery channel????





[edit on 19/0507/07 by neformore]

Neformore- i agree with most of what you say. its true that there is currently no legislation regarding smoking in private vehicles- and i'm not claiming this to be a reliable source, but i did hear it being SUGGESTED the other day, i think it was on BBC tv. I will try to find a link to something to back this up.

Another point- The other day I went into my local convenience store and asked for a packet of cigarettes. I am twenty two years old, and was therefore quite surprised to be asked for "ID". Unfortunately, I hadn't planned for this, and I therefore had to go away empty handed. I understand that companies have to be very careful about selling age-restricted products, but this was taking it too far. For a start, I am clearly older than fifteen. I was carrying with me my university student card, which has my date of birth on it. this was not accepted as formal ID. The man behind the till looked pretty embarassed but i knew he was being watched (I think there are at least five CCTV cameras in there, some pointed directly at him). he said "I'm sorry, we have to ask anyone who looks younger than 25".

This got me thinking, also, about the time that my 47 year old mother was asked for ID on her way into a bar. When she looked surprised, the bouncers said "it's not for your age, you just have to have ID", and they literally would not let people in if they had no ID. it doesn't quite suggest a police state though- I'm pretty sure bouncers aren't directly associated with the police (I could be wrong though), but it does prove how controlled we are as a nation.

I live in Portsmouth, UK. I'm going to the library in a bit, and I know I will be visible on cameras for at least half of my walk. I will also need an ID card to enter the university library, and if i decide to stop for cigarettes on the way, I may need to have my passport with me. This does scare me, I intend to leave the UK as soon as I have finished studying, because I don't think there is a way to do anything about this. I have joined groups on this internet which are against the idea of "voluntary" ID cards and so forth, so there are other people out there who feel the same, but as proved by the protests some citizens have taken part in, our government does not listen. I would never raise a child in this society. This might sound a bit strong, but its how I feel.

I am aware that this is a very personal view on the society I live in, and i do not assume that every part of the UK is like this. Just some anecdotes for people of the US to get a feel of what its like here, for me.

EDIT: The idea for banning smoking in cars is not a government or even a health service related one. From what i can see so far, its just certain groups who campaign for road safety. i think that the fact it's being covered in the press does suggest it might be a possiblity though.

www.mirror.co.uk...=bid-to-ban-smoking-in-cars&method=full&objectid=19098404&siteid=89520-name_page.html



[edit on 19-5-2007 by purplecoral]

UK Expands Surveillance!
_______________

Seems to help counter outercrime. Seems to convict crime caught in the open. Wouldn't be surprised if in Canada sooner or later the camera is installed within major cities. If your innocent then I'd suppose there's nothing to feel concerned with.

As for smoking bylaws, I can tell you that here in Canada the present laws in Ontario are crushing Bars/Pubs in winter or spring/summer without outer-patios.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
If your innocent then I'd suppose there's nothing to feel concerned with

The concern is that there will a polar-shift from the legal cornerstone of 'Innocent until proven guilty, beyond all reasonable doubt' to 'Guilty until proven innocent'.

CCTV, body-language analysis, and audio monitoring evidence (whether randomly gathered or by direct tapping) will be set to become admissable circumstantial evidence in a court of law. And it's not just the thought that the evidence could be used to tip the balance of 'reasonable doubt' in the mind of a juror, but that such evidence will become as routinely relied upon as infallible as DNA test results

I wouldn't say the UK is a police state but there's something not right about the changes going on. There is a NWO of sorts in the UK. Things are changing fast. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but as they say "it doesn't mean they're not out to get you".I mentioned already about the criminal element being let loose in our streets. If that's the way they're treated then why all the cameras? Why spend millions on cameras to stop crime then reward the criminals? This doesn't make sense.As I said before, there seems to be some sort of conspiracy to keep us in an ever tightening band of controlled chaos. I might be wrong. Maybe it's blind stupidity of the chaos at "the top". It's kind of scary either way.

I'm curious as to whether any counter-measures can be taken as an act of defiance of the surveillance-state. Like cell-phone jammers, can there be any way to jam the wireless-type of CCTV cameras such as the new network being set up in Leeds?

Perhaps it may even be possible to hack the speakers on the new Middlesboro CCTV trials

...anyone for Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture?

Originally posted by citizen smith
I'm curious as to whether any counter-measures can be taken as an act of defiance of the surveillance-state. Like cell-phone jammers, can there be any way to jam the wireless-type of CCTV cameras such as the new network being set up in Leeds?

Perhaps it may even be possible to hack the speakers on the new Middlesboro CCTV trials

...anyone for Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture?

I've been wondering if there's a way to shield yourself from night-vision or infra-red (are they the same thing?). Can you hide from these in the dark? What I mean is, if ever the sh** hits the fan and we're rounded up "ghetto" style, helped by the millions of cameras + helicopters etc. can you hide from their technology? I know sound really paranoid, I'm not, it's just a question.

Originally posted by wigit
I wouldn't say the UK is a police state but there's something not right about the changes going on. There is a NWO of sorts in the UK. Things are changing fast. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but as they say "it doesn't mean they're not out to get you".I mentioned already about the criminal element being let loose in our streets. If that's the way they're treated then why all the cameras? Why spend millions on cameras to stop crime then reward the criminals? This doesn't make sense.As I said before, there seems to be some sort of conspiracy to keep us in an ever tightening band of controlled chaos. I might be wrong. Maybe it's blind stupidity of the chaos at "the top". It's kind of scary either way.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
I live in London also and I notice things around me changing for the worst. Senior Police Officers are mostly Lodgers and "Order Out Of Chaos" is really what is unfolding day by day.

This is not good. I am not sure as to how the British public is being portratyed to the global audience but the lower class citizens HATE the government, but fail to see how they can make a difference being in the position they are in. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, so crime is one of the only ways to generate income in civilian society. The resistance are many but the resources to start a revolution are lacking due to the fact that firearms are illegal. The Government ensures that those who have guns are killing eachother like the african-american and hispanic societies of the US. They achieve this by making sure the youth of this country are conditioned to think the way THEY want them to, by various means such as:

- ensuring the youth idolize celebrites
- infiltration of the urban music scene ['Grime' 'Rap' & 'R'n'B']
- highlighting gun culture
- new technology
- mindless propaganda
- [etc...]

I know this as I am living in this reality. Colectively the majority of humans sense this world from a third dimensional perspective and do not see the illusion. Capture off your soul is their ultimate goal and your mind is the seat if your soul - which they plan to 'sit in'

The UK will have to learn to get used to such things and REBEL when the time comes.

iVIVA LA REVOLUCION!

And, if not for our cameras, none of the 7/7 bombers would have been identified, and none of the second wave bombers that got it wrong would have been caught

Compare and contrast the evidence from 7/7 and 21/7.
There was virtually nothing from 7/7.The imfamous Luton station picture,and the alleged bus bomber buying batteries for his bomb at Kings Cross...errm any more?

21/7 gives us the men buying their ingredients,driving their cars,walking in the stations,the bombs going off in the trains..

Wheres the footage from the no.30 bus?
oh yes thats right..its cameras weren't working.The only bus in the garage with faulty cameras.Don't forget Daniel Obachike - he was on the bus- his version of events does not tally with the official fairy tale and he is being harrased for it.He recently had his flat burgled and a pc hard drive stolen.They tried to implicate him in the bombings- he's pointed out that the man who said he saw the bomber on the bus is lying through his teeth.

Wheres the footage of Jean-Charles being murdered in cold blood by our good old boys in blue?You know - where he vaulted the ticket gate and ran menacingly for the train dressed in heavy clothes with wires sticking out?(NOT)
Theres no public inquiry,all we have been offered is a "narrative".
The trial of 21/7 was 7/7 by proxy.They can't tell us the truth about 7/7 because MI5 are involved upto their eyeballs.So they give us this 21/7 farce.Same with Dr. Kelly,Diana,the Irish troubles,which evapourated as soon as Blair got with the programme.
Don't underestimate the Queens influence.Public servants swear loyalty to the queen,not to her subjects.

As to smoking.
The government didn't give two hoots about passive smoke when they held the monopoly on the tobbacco supply.They could gouge the price like a heroin dealer.We had nowhere else to buy the stuff.Now that they can't make a profit,its a different story.Its another step towards a privatised health service.Smokers,drinkers and drivers have made more of a contribution to the NHS than any other group.Now they routinely refuse to treat smokers,and that is being extended to include overweight people.
It makes me laugh.non smokers getting paranoid about cancer when they smell a cigarette.Then they go outside and take in a big lungfull of diesel particulates,or sit in an office full of potentially lethal chemicals covering plastics,carpets,surrounded by electro-magnetic fields....not to mention the Depleted Uranium from the gulf war,which will eventually spread around the world.Remember that scottish sheep were affected by fallout from Chernobyl.
In the end,these anti smoking laws are just another way to separate you from me.Divide and Rule is the British Way.

As to the Americans and their constitution-they don't have one anymore.
That ended with the anthrax attacks on the only senators who wanted to actually read the PATRIOT act before ratification.Remember that?Anthrax from an american military lab?
Now you jail people without charges,trial or judgement.Anyone in the world,on GeeDubs whim,can be kidnapped,tortured and jailed without charge,indefinitely.
Your politicians go on TV and justify "enhanced interrogation techniques" (thats NewSpeak for torture).You call suicide at guantanamo "acts of asymmetric warfare".Your mail is opened,your email is routed through NSA servers,your phonecalls are tapped.(As Webster Tarpley points out,the FISA Court will put a wire on a ham sandwich if you ask them to,why does Bush need to do it illegally?).You don't even know how much paper money the Federal Reserve is issuing anymore.

Frankly I don't know what can be done.If we get too close to the truth on these matters,they won't roll over and admit guilt.Personally,I think they will just collapse the economy.You won't have much time to seek the truth if you have a month to pay off your mortgage in full or lose your home.

Some of you might moan. But ive lived in a lot of places in the world and have dual Nationality British and Australian and I still say this is the finest place in the world to live in.

The cameras? mostly used to catch the scumbag crims and the violent smegbags who cant handle their booze.

The speedcams, they do just that catch people speeding, and thats from someone whos just got an NIP, paid my 60 quid and got the 3 points on the licence.

Smoking? A foul disgusting habit that makes others ill, despite the babble postulated by others that fumes from cars are worse. Im a musician and have to work and sing in clubs and if you saw the crap I cough up it would sicken you more than it sickens me. ROLL ON 01 JULY

ID Cards, whats the problem? They are obligatory in France and some other EU countries. They can make you have one but they cant make you carry it. Youll probably get a producer like a licence. If you moan about illegal aliens (The Albanian and Romanian types) then dont moan about ID cards. You cant even get a job in France without an ID card.

The USA is a great country, its the people that piss me off.

Ive been to a lot of States in the US and just like the UK theres good and bad, strange and straight.

Lighten up and stop worrying people. If it all gets too much remember we are British, weve thrown out Governments before and chopped off a Kings head. If weve done it once we can do it again.

Now the Muslims ??? Dont get me started on the Muslims

Originally posted by realyweely
If it all gets too much remember we are British, weve thrown out Governments before and chopped off a Kings head. If weve done it once we can do it again.

I couldn't agree with you more...we should have reminded Big Tony that even Kings aren't immune to public discontent...


...But then you went and spoiled a damn good point with this tripe..

Now the Muslims ??? Dont get me started on the Muslims

Just exactly what purpose does Muslim-bashing serve? Nothing at all except to show that you ,sir, wear a badge of cultural ignorance on your sleeve with pride.

Originally posted by realyweely
Lighten up and stop worrying people. If it all gets too much remember we are British, weve thrown out Governments before and chopped off a Kings head. If weve done it once we can do it again.

Well yes, but that was before the public were 'conditioned' as they say. The public might be a bit of a pushover these days, especially if you tell them the terrorists are coming to get them.

Originally posted by citizen smith
Just exactly what purpose does Muslim-bashing serve? Nothing at all except to show that you ,sir, wear a badge of cultural ignorance on your sleeve with pride.

Hear realyweely out, he(?) could be relating the mass immigration that has hit the UK to some NWO plan or something.

Or it could just be muslim bashing lol

Originally posted by kozmo
Can anyone in the Uk tell me what the heck is going on!? You've got cameras everywhere - now they have microphones on them to catch your audio as well. Now this - Police can set up speeding cameras anywhere!

I don't know about you but in the U.S. one cannot be charged civilly for a criminal offence. In other words, here in the U.S. an actual HUMAN BEING employed as a police officer MUST witness your crime AND cite you personally in order for the charge to stick. The use of speeding cameras are being challenged in the courts and the FREE people are winning.

I am curious as to why UK citizens are allowing this to happen in their society? Who governs who? Where is the uprising from the citizenry demanding an end to this? Or is this is a welcomed event in your society? I'm not mocking; I genuinely want to understand why you have become the modern Orwellian 1984 Big Brother society and yet it appears to the outside world that there is a tacit acceptance of this? Please share your opinions as I am floored over these recent governmental transgressions against your frredoms. Thanks in advance.

Wrong.

I know several people who have gotten tickets by camera. The court even sends them a picture of their car going through the red light

They took many of the cameras in my area down because people where getting pissed off... it was just another tax. Just another way for the police to make more money.

The laws vary on local towns and cities, not nationally.

I've said it before that "The UK is a testbed for police state/big brother methods before being used extensively elsewhere, like in the US"

If you think that cameras are to be used ONLY for catching crime, or ONLY for stopping terrorism I don't think you have the big picture in view. The same for traffic violation cameras.

The children in schools in the UK given school lunch ID cards-why? It's to get the population, starting with the youngest, used to the idea of using ID cards and cashless methods ONLY. Seems innocent enough though? What harm does it do potentially or what does this help to foster?

-practiced accepted flashing of ID cards at stations everywhere eventually.
-cashless society, completely dependent on the 'system' for your money or 'credit'
-tracking of all individuals with ease and automation.
-segregates the population, those with cards, those without, only those with cards or certain 'credit' may be allowed entrance to entire AREAS
-many many more fun ideas!

It seems the methods are working not only in the UK but in the US to a lesser extent as well. People will become USED TO the idea of having cameras everywhere. Cameras PROTECT US from crime mantra. You will see on the local and nat'l news examples of crime deterred from the capturing of images on a camera.

Soon you will see computerized license plate scanners making the news as well in the aiding of a capture of possibly a terrorist.

It's all to desensitize the population to the master plan. It all sounds crazy and paranoid, but that doesn't mean it isn't really happening-just look around.