Is This Hell?

Sometimes vanity and pride are the most emotionally intense values a given individual will have to cling to.

Except for their inherent deadliness . . . it's almost . . . a frightful thing to imagine them jerked out from under such an individual.

speaking generically, for example.

Originally posted by BO XIAN
that is a FAR cry from praying FOR Armageddon. I don't know of a single Christian that prays FOR Armageddon though I've heard there are such nuts around occasionally.

IF you truly want some factual descriptions of HELL, they have been written over the decades the last 100 years or so or longer, by visitors.

BO XIAN,

Thanks for bringing some passion to the discussion. Above you've listed a few examples of prayer you've seen working in your life, anticdotal, yes, but I won't sit here and try to discount the validity of them.

Just the same, I have litterally spoken to over 10,000 human beings over the course of the last 15 - 20 years, and that is a conservative estimate. I used to be employed in a position where that's all I did was talk to people about the most intimate details of their lives, and faith.

Based on these conversations, I am telling you that christians are praying for Armegeddon. I'm not interested in proving it to you, beyond telling you this is the case. Every single week in churches across this country, it's "Countdown to a Armageddon..." Please!

As for this being hell. There's only two choices - God created this material universe, or evil did. I'm here to tell you that God didn't. We're here for a Test? Get real!

Everything we needed to know about this material world, we learned in the first 10 seconds we found ourselves trapped here, in our very first bodies: that this is not our true home. Period the end! Nothing else to learn.

Home is where your heart is, and those who Love God with all their hearts, souls and minds, and love their neighbors as themselves, live in the heart of God, and God in them.

God is not evil. The God of Love, did not create a place of misery called Hell for His/Her children. What are you nuts?

I'm sorry if evil has brainwashed you into believing the true God is Evil. Love does not require that we experience evil, in order to remember God's love. The True God only requires that we hold on long enough in this Hell, to be rescued by the Christ.

Everything else simply ceases to exist. No burning fires of Hell for all eternity. Only evil, imagines such evil.

As for writing books about Hell, that's a joke. Writers have what we call... creative imagination, WOW! Ron Hubbard created a whole religion, which seemingly intelligent people spends lots of money buying their way through. Ron Hubbard was a science-fiction writer.

I could write you a tale about hell, that will do more then curl your toes. Big Woop!

Doesn't mean it exists, except in my own imagination. You see, long-long time ago, humans couldn't read. So the guys who could read, figured; lets write some stuff about God, and then teach the people how to read it. They made God a fearfull, vengfull, sacrifice loving deity to keep the ignorant masses in line.

Meanwhile the True God was working to get those who wanted to come home, off this rock.

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
this is not hell unless one chooses it to be.

LooseLips,

So if a man killed your entire family overnight, it happened because you chose it? If a terrorist blows up your neighborhood, it happened because you chose it?

If half the city where you live, comes down with a deadly virus, it happened because you chose it?

You choose nothing, except how you deal with what comes at you, and whether or not you have the Love of God in you.

And you can't have the love of God in you, and believe that God would create an eternal Hell. There is no evil, or unjustice, or retribution in God, certainly not against an inferior being such as one who would deserve to be in a Hell.

God doesn't have time for drama.

All you know about the so-called Hell of the bible is what you're told. You have absolutely no practical experience with it, what-so-ever. But you live here, and if you don't know that this is not your true home, then you are in HELL and you don't even know it.

[edit on 4-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Originally posted by LooseLipsSinkShips
this is not hell unless one chooses it to be.

LooseLips,

So if a man killed your entire family overnight, it happened because you chose it? If a terrorist blows up your neighborhood, it happened because you chose it?


if you can not see past yourself, you will never see.

I will make this point again. I have learnt that many people do not understand. I will repeat that. Many people do not understand. The way they are thought teaches them how to not understand. Looselips, you missed the point entirely.

I'm sure SatansQue knows that you should live as richeous as possible. What you are saying Looselips is that "you sleep in the bed you make." We all know that. What Satan' is saying is that...many things you do not control...what you can control however, is how bad a situation gets.

Now...I am tempted to use words that rhyme with cupid to describe some of what I've read on ATS, especially coming from very religious people.
But I won't...simply because it doesn't help the situation.

Satan, I will say to you...from experience, I have watched many memebers of ATS try to bring much wiser/sensible points across, but to no avail, because other members are...what's that word that rhymes with cupid? Sorry, no...because other members refuse to deny ignorance.

Some of the points brought up are not even to convert someone into thinking like the other(like so many religions try so very hard to do), but to encourage someone to think...period. People do not think. They are taught...and taught not to think.

Satan', I wish you luck trying to get your point even nearly understood by the masses.

We do not place these objects for you to see...we marely open your eyes...there are no choices when your eyes are closed.

[edit on 4-6-2007 by sdrawkcab]

I'm wondering if you saw the latest crime stats from the FBI, reporting 16,000 murders in the US in 2006?

You can mess around on the FBI's site if you dare. You can look at the actual numbers for the last 15 years.

www.fbi.gov...

Did you know that in 2001, 13,000 people were murdered on the streets of America? We went to war over 3,000 killed by so-called terrorists.

Is this Hell? Here's a clue. When your leaders know that more people have died on the streets of america in the last 15 years, than in all the wars fought by this country since WW11, and they're still fighting terrorism elswhere, then you know you're in Hell. You have a better chance of being murdered on some streets of America, than you have dying in a war. 16,000 divided by 365 = 43.83 people died perday.

Folks, if 43 soldiers were dying perday in Iraq, that would be considered a loosing effort. Yet they died here without so much as a "What the hell?"

Oh, and there were 92,800+ rapes last year

92,800 divided by 365 = 254

254 rapes per/day - every day of the year? Chances are that someone reading this post knows a woman who was raped. Violence is all around you. Your friends neighbors, relatives, children are victims every-single day. Yet some of you lead nice lives. Away from the madness. And you say, "Naw, this ain't hell."

"This world isn't hell" you proclaim. Hell is much worse. Uh, in hell, I'll bet you won't be paying $3 - $5 for a gallon of milk? Or $2 - $3 dollars for a loaf of bread, while George Bush is sending 100 billion dollars to Iraq, added to the other 100 billion he's already spent.

A friend felt a chest pain last week. Went to the hospital overnight. Came out of the hospital to the tune of $16,000 - Johns Hopkins. Oh, she's a bartender.

45,000,000 people can't afford health insurance. You want to be in hell on earth. Try to get treated in a hospital without health insurance. See how they treat you like yesterday's trash. If you need an expensive operation to save your life, you might as well kiss your sweet ass good bye.

Oh yeah, this is Hell alright. And over the next few years, it's going to catch fire.

Wait until the Bushes NWO kicks in, you'll wish there was a Hell other then this place.

Still carrying on.

And is it Hell for YOU? Are you really suffering right now? Or are you sitting in a comfortable chair, browsing the net? Does your day hold anything other than minor inconveniences?

(Of course this line of reasoning might backfire on me. You might be in a wheelchair, suffering from some horrible disease. If so, well, bugger.)

I feel sorry for the people in the world who are suffering, but the odds are that most of the readers of this stuff are not amongst them. Some of you are, but most aren't.

Stuff statistics. That's scaremongering like a bad current affairs TV show.

^ That attitude is exactly why it's so bad in some areas.

"Ohh, I'm fine...how are you? What's that you say...life is miserable...well too bad for you. Keep a positive attitude & you'll be A ok."

Metaphors are funny. This is hell by all means. May be not to you...but to many others...which...doesn't really make it Heaven...or worth the while.

Get your head out of your...am...

Never mind. Grow up!

satansque i saw that post too about should poor be sterilized but it wasnt on ats it was on above politics and it was one of the stupidest thread ive ever seen

Originally posted by emjoi
Still carrying on.

And is it Hell for YOU? Are you really suffering right now? Or are you sitting in a comfortable chair, browsing the net? Does your day hold anything other than minor inconveniences?

You are completely missing the point. My personal life, your personal life. The lives of everyone on this planet, happy or sad, isn't what makes this Hell. Perrception has nothing to do with it.

You will die. You don't remember asking to be born. You come here and must act, must live, must survive - spend most of your life asking why you're here, without many concrete answers. You love, you hate, but nothing is permanent.

You forget your God. You forget that you can fly - that you can travel to the other side of forever with just a thought. That you have the power within to create universes - to embark on a never ending journey filled with exploration, and wonder. But you're here. In a body. A body with limitations.

You can't even get off this planet, unless your strapped inside of an exploding rocket.

Limitations on creativity, freedom, life, happiness, the capasity to love, to see the face of your creator, and speak to Him/Her face to face, is what makes this Hell.

"Limitations on creativity, freedom, life, happiness, the capasity to love, to see the face of your creator, and speak to Him/Her face to face, is what makes this Hell."

You have created your own limitations. Our true purpose will not be realized until we allow God to remove our limitations. This means to trust Him. I have a nice life, and want to live to be an old man, telling stories to my Grandchildren.

But if God has other plans, I trust that I will be with Him and He with me, no matter what.

Look for the good things, and good things will come. Seek the negative, and He will grant your wish.

Originally posted by stompk
"Limitations on creativity, freedom, life, happiness, the capasity to love, to see the face of your creator, and speak to Him/Her face to face, is what makes this Hell."

You have created your own limitations. Our true purpose will not be realized until we allow God to remove our limitations. This means to trust Him. I have a nice life, and want to live to be an old man, telling stories to my Grandchildren.

But if God has other plans, I trust that I will be with Him and He with me, no matter what.

Nice try. You have no clue as to what it means to trust God.

God is not helping you to be selffish, to give you a so-called good life in the same prison his son was murdered in. The same prison His/Her son the Christ Jesus told you was not your home, and a place His/Her son told you that you must not be attached to.

Even Buda, an athiest, said the same.

The example of the perfect life, trusting God, was recently set by the Christ Teresa, following Jesus's lead - in loving service to others. If you think for a single fraction of a second, that the God of the Christ Jesus, and of the Christ Teresa, is involved in giving you a nice life in this world, then you are delussional, and I feel sorry for you, because you will never see the true God, ever again. And Evil will be perfectly happy to allow you to continue in the delussion, until you are an old man.

If you had said, "God led me to live my life in the service of loving strangers, and I teach my grandchildren to think of the needs of others over their own," I'd believe you. Your limitation is that you don't really love God. You just pay lip service to the love of God, as long as you have your nice life.

Don't get angry and shout, "You don't know me!" because your own words give you away. A man speaks or writes from his heart, and you just wrote what was in your heart. The fact that you don't even realize you're in a Hell, made by evil, is exactly why God isn't running your life.

Hi Satan

Thanks for responding to my post about the afterlife.

oh it is written in that hellish thing somewhere that the devil is the king of this mortal world..

Mmmm it's making more and more sense we are in hell and just don't know it.

Keep posting satan this is very interesting. Im subscribed you Know

Being wired up and tortured day after day by our extraterrestrial masters is like hell on earth...on the other hand they can give the ultimate sexual bliss in an instant and make it last for hours...it's a blessed curse.

Originally posted by Bocephus
Being wired up and tortured day after day by our extraterrestrial masters is like hell on earth...on the other hand they can give the ultimate sexual bliss in an instant and make it last for hours...it's a blessed curse.

Ah yes, the pleasure makes the pain much more paletable.

I go back to the first question "is this heaven or hell" and my thought is in reality it's neither, but if were gonna look at it through metaphors it could be both, and what i mean by that is if something great happens in someones lifes like for instance the birth of a child or even something as simple as laughing at a joke, you put your mind in a place of metaphoric heaven and when something bad happens to you like a death or something else your mind set switches to that of a metaphoric hell, but in my opinion the reality is earth is neither.


Also for the record i'm a believer in the bible and sure i don't always follow it, i can admit i'm a sinner but i'll also tell you i'v seen too many strange things that can't be explained by mere logic and my personal belief is that the king james bible is real.

But one thing i think people tend to forget on both sides of the fences is a pretty important two word phrase from the bible FREE WILL, so when someone says it's gods fault per say that a war happened i would disagree and say it was more likely free will that caused this occurrence to happen.

I don't disagree with you. We live in Hell. I don't see how anyone who pays attention can think otherwise.

But I also think Heaven is here, if we earn it for ourselves. I've noticed that people who commit themselves to one of the paths to virtue avoid many of the common plagues that afflict others; these people emerge unscathed while everything burns around them. One can only assume that if we were all good people, at peace in our minds, purposeful and considerate in our actions, the world would be a very different place. Still a bit like a suite in prison, but it's better than nothing.

And on another note, I suspect you'll have a hard time arguing against the supposition that Hell is paradise for any creature that distills pleasure from pain.

I could write at length detailing the extent of my agreement with your assessment of the church and their place in this farce, but it suffices to offer up one of these.

Earlier in the thread you said this, and it caught my eye.

These are my ideas.

Do you really believe that?

Haven't you ever noticed the way ideas seem to travel, as if on the wind; even through time? It should go without saying that you would know very little were it not for the centuries of study and contemplation that came before. Despite the fact that we most often rise or fall on our own merits, we really are all in this together.

If it matters at all to you, I'm not a religious man. I have faith though, especially in the notion of redemption.

Let me ask you a question, if I may. Do you believe people mostly get what they deserve; karma as it's commonly understood?

WyrdeOne,

I wanted to take a moment to thank you for dropping by to add your thoughts. I found your post quite refreshing, and well conceived. It will probably take two post to get at though, so bare with me.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
But I also think Heaven is here, if we earn it for ourselves.

In the town where I reside, for years I would see the same homeless man standing on a perticular corner, across from a homeless shelter, everyday. Now, what was unusual about this homeless man, was his attire. He wore multiple layers of clothing from his head to his toes. I'm talking 3 hats, with the outer hat being one of those jobs that covers the ears. At least 3 coats, and who knows how many pairs of pants. Each pant was a little shorter than the other so you could actually see the color variations, which is how you knew.

This dude stood on that corner 365 days, summer, winter, fall and spring. I remember one sweltering, nasty hot summer - it's 101 degrees, and this fool was standing on that corner, layered up, calm, cool, not a drop of sweat dripping from his face, I sware on my life. Once I even park a couple blocks away, got out, and walked past him, just to see if there was any sweat on this guy, gave him some cash - he shook my hands with a big smile, and his hands were cool. And it was 90+ degrees outside, in a region known for it's ugly, clamy, humidity.

I realized that yes, he was there in body, but his mind and spirit were detached from the experience of what it meant to be a physical being, living in this material world. He couldn't carry on a conversation with you, cause he was out of his friggen mind, but he was happy. So happy, he couldn't tell it was hot as hell, or colder than a witches tit.

But you know what? I agree with your statement, because this dude was obviously a great spirit, because he found his slice of heaven on earth, in the only place one can find heaven in this hell, inside of his heart.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
One can only assume that if we were all good people, at peace in our minds, purposeful and considerate in our actions, the world would be a very different place.

This world can't be different, because it was created by evil, and all we can hope for is to get off of it, and out of the cycle of birth and death. You see, you can't look at the life of a person today, wheather they are happy, sad, crazy, wealthy, etc., and make any determinations what-so-ever about this nature of planet earth.

We all began on this rock at pretty much the same time, hundreds, of thousands of years ago. Our own dark brothers, spiritual being, with the spark of the light of God in them, used the power of that light, to create an alternative reality to our spiritual home, because they assumed that just because they could, that they were somehow greater than our creator.

So this material universe, which consists of 12 eliptical universes overlapping each other, was designed, and manifested as sort of a light catcher, if you will. It was designed to fool other spirit beings into believing that it was a part of the spiritual realm, because it was imposed over a sector of said spiritual realm, in close enough proximity to attract the attention of many unsuspecting spirits. These spirit beings, not familiar with evil, because there is no such a thing in the spirit realm, investigated, and then were trapped.

So everyone living in this material universe, right this moment, was at one point, living in the bussom of our Mother/Father God.

Our dark brothers designed the material realm to trap our light. And this light, because it comes directly from the creator, is powerful, and helps sustain the illusion of this material universe. All of the negative emotions associated with being human, actually generate extra, even more powerful energy. But the main goal of our dark brothers has been to convince as many as they can, to actually give up their light. Cont:

[edit on 9-6-2007 by SatansQue]

It has been a while since I read a post and smiiled.

Yes, we are in prison. This is hell and perhaps one day we might be allowed out. When I first realised it, I laughed so much watching everyone driving their fancy cars, having their tertiary education and the nice house. "I did all this stuff when I was dead...cos I thought I was alive"...

I have my own theory on death and birth. I think we are all reincarnated over and over again until we get something right...I also feel thats why depression is such a big thang today...everyone is soooo tired.

I have had two dreams where this person I know (but I don't) is really pissed at me but lets me out of prison. I walk out and then look around and look bak through the gates and I can see Earth. Quite funny really. But, I woke up thinking who was that and why was he so pissed!!? lol hmm must have done something wrong... Maybe it means that I am being let out? lol

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Let me ask you a question, if I may. Do you believe people mostly get what they deserve; karma as it's commonly understood?

All of the above, was to answer your question. So when we look at this concept of karma, from the standpoint that we live in a universe, a world designed by our evil dark brothers, when we die, what happens? Since the moment this universe was first imposed and we were trapped every time a physical body stopped working, the spirit trapped within, moved to what is called the astral plane.

The astral plane is a space between this false universe, and the spiritual realm, designed to catch the light beings as they make their ascent. In the astral plane, is where our dark brothers actually reside in spirit. These dark brothers are all about maintaining their false realm, and about trying to forcefully make a spirit give up it's spirit to them, which they can then use as a permanent source of energy to sustain the false realm. So before they send us back into the material realm they determine what situation they could put our spirits in to fascilitate their goals.

Those who suffer the most on this planet, are typically the stubborn spirits who refuse to give up their light. So they are put in horrible circumstances, designed to break them. When that body stops working, back you go to the astral plan, where they remind you of the horrors of the last life, and threaten to return you to more of the same. Many spirits can't take it, and plead for a better situation. To get the better situation, you have to give up the light.

So you may come back as a wealthy man/woman, a sports star, a politician, a recording artist, etc., and live a happy, peaceful life. Those who refuse to give up, or give in, find themselves in a place like Dufar being hacked to death by rebels, or dirt poor, or in a family situation where you are constantly abused, raped, etc. All designed to break you?

They might even send you to Saturn.

So to answer your question, no, we don't get what we deserve in this Hell created by our dark brothers. The whole concept of karma was created by them, to fool us into believing that if we act a certain way, we achieve a certain result. But it's all BS because they controll what's going on here, for their own personal gain.

Meanwhile in the spiritual realm, hundreds of thousands of years, equals a day or less, because there is no time in the spiritual realm. And ever since the dark brothers did their thing, our Mother/Father God has been working to rescue those spirits who have not given up their light to evil.

Many beings have been sent directly from the spirit realm here, to warn us about becoming too attached to this world, and to prepare for leaving. The design of this material universe is very complicated. It was crated using the energy dirived from God. That's why many can't remember their true home, or that they are even spirit beings. Even our spiritual brothers of the light, still in the spiritual realm, this creation by evil was difficult to figure out - to find a way to destroy it.

But the Christ Jesus, put the final nail in our dark brothers coffin, when he came as a man, lived a perfect life detached from it all, changed the energy of the planet from the inside out, and then defeated the whole birth and death senario.

Because the change in the energy was subtle, and because the dark brothers thought they had destroyed the Christ, perverted the message in the Bible - through their churches, they didn't notice that Jesus had screwed them.

So this material universe is running out of time. And our dark brothers are beginning to panic. The Christ is here, right now, and spirit beings are escaping, breaking through the astral plane, as we speak. Soon, all that will be left are those spirits who gave up their light to our dark brothers. It will get really ugly. But everything and everyone non-spirit, will just simply cease to exist.

[edit on 9-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Originally posted by SatansQue
I realized that yes, he was there in body, but his mind and spirit were detacted from the experience of what it meant to be a physical being, living in this material world. He couldn't carry on a conversation with you, cause he was out of his friggen mind, but he was happy.

my Brother works in mental health and told me about an incident where the inmates (criminal insane facility) were allowed to have a afternoon of entertainment. Well, as he was keeping check of them, he got to watch them 'going off' and it was at that point, he thought...they were happier than him and he wanted to be happy la la singing without a care in the world. oh the meds help of course...

ok sorry, going off topic... insane is not the same as spiritually out there

This world can't be different, because it was created by evil, and all we can hope for is to get off of it, and out of the cycle of birth and death.

fantastic...

We all began on this rock at pretty much the same time, hundreds, of thousands of years ago. Our own dark brothers, spiritual being, with the spark of the light of God in them, used the power of that light, to create an alternative reality to our spiritual home, because they assumed that just because they could, that they were somehow greater than our creator.

For some, but for others they came into a) find those that were lost and trapped b) responsibility... unfortunately, it was very dangerous to enter this rock due to the environs so to speak. Many forgot and got trapped in the karmic cycle which is what drags them back into the birth/death cycle. Thats why Buddha -> lose attachments...and JC -> vegetarianism etc to lighten our energy. Imagine something exploding and all souls are in that exposion, when it settles, the dust etc, some dust doesn't sink as it is too light. It floats off somewhere else. The heavier your aura is, the easier it is to fall in with the dense matter.

Our dark brothers designed the material realm to trap our light. And this light, because it comes directly from the creator, is powerful, and helps sustain the illusion of this material universe. All of the negative emotions associated with being human, actually generate extra, even more powerful energy. But the main goal of our dark brothers has been to convince as many as they can, to actually give up their light.

I am almost orgasmic... yes yes and yes! Agree with everything you have had to offer.



[edit on 9-6-2007 by NJE777]