Is This Hell?

Originally posted by wigit
Your thread had ME rolling around with laughter. What's with the, your God, your society, your history of violence, murder, violent nature of your children… your God your God your God about then. Aren't you from the same planet as us then?

Get off your high pedestal and get back to earth, I say.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by SatansQue]

HERE HERE!

*SIGH*

It never fails - Every time I look at the board and see a disgruntled individual creating a thread; providing dissertations, to stir up the prevailing anxieties of the human nature, I can't help but think that you are just an individual asking for 'help'.

Really...Think about it!

You know darn well, as much as the other readers/posters, that what YOU put into this life is WHAT will come of it. 'Sow what you reap'...and all that jazz?

I can't control what's going on with the other side of the world, but I can have an impact on one world right now, and that's MY WORLD - family/friends/etc.

The positive or negative actions/thoughts that I provide in my world could be likened to a 'stone dropped into the water - rippling towards other worlds.

I am content RIGHT NOW because of my actions/thoughts. I CHOOSE to be content, regardless of prevailing circumstances. If I FEEL insecure about things, is because I am overhwhelmed. Just like any other person on this planet.

Hell is just a 'description' that people apply to negative states.

If you feel you are in hell, then you are.


[edit on 25-5-2007 by TheDuckster]

Is this hell? This EARTH?

Mabey to some. I know that somedays feel like HELL.

Is it the 'extremities' of HADES or what we know and imagine to be the worst of the worst?

People in war-torn countries would disagree with me. People with protruding ribs, who haven't eatin a decent meal since when they could remember, or what about the poor souls who fight a senseless war abroad who lay in a foxhole somewhere praying and keeping alive in their memories the hopes of coming home to their loved ones - alive.

My God my God...the word 'hell' exhibits a completely new definition now doesn't it?

I hope and pray to all that's HOLY that I would never 'feel' that hell that others go through.

For the mere piddly feelings of distress and hopelessness that have transgressed in my life; pales in comparison to others.

It is WHAT we do with these feelings that converts into positive or negative actions, that will benefit or hinder this miniscule period of our existance.

[edit on 25-5-2007 by TheDuckster]

SatansQue, Now I know where you're coming from. When I was young I was filled with that joy too. I used to think I could hear high pitched choirs and thought that was the angels singing. I also used to get stuck out of body when I was really small. I would be in blackness and have to struggle to get to a light. I'd comfort myself by singing "Jesus loves me this I know". Don't know why it happened, or why the song, but it worked. When I was twelve I got into a struggle at the local pool. Immediately I was pulled out-of-body and was in two places at once, (or flitting back and forward from one state to the other). I was actually calm whilst watching my other self struggle in the water. Later that same day when running in the park I floated up out of my body. I didn't get any loving voices though, I envy you that. However, because of those experiences and a few others I wont mention here I believe the body is just a "container" and there's more to come. Heaven or Hell? I know which I'd prefer.

I just thought I'd mention something about the Cathars, I'm sure SATANSQUE knows about them, because this physical world being hell is pretty much what they thought.

Some people believe in an all powerful benevolent god and a much less powerful evil being(the devil?).

However if you are to look at this world, a world created by an all powerful and benevolent god, then surely you must question what this kind and loving god was thinking?

Wouldn't it make more sense that the all powerful omnipotent god would be an arsehole? Like the devil?

In Catharism it is believed that there are two god's. One is an infinitely good God who is essentially impotent and unable to create anything material. The other, the creator of our material universe is none other than the Devil himself.

This boring little solar system that we are, according to current laws on physics, trapped on for all eternity. This self defecating body, this carnivourous, dog eat dog planet. Surely this, in it's entirety, is a diabolical phenomenon, a manifestation of evil.

This does not mean that life is a creation of the Devil though. The story goes that despite the devils wondrous artistry he was unable to create a lasting spiritual LIFE. So Evil asked the kind benevolent god for help. God agreed to assist the devil by breathing a soul into the lifeless sculpture.

As a spiritual being we are created and guided by a loving and kind God.
As an entity of flesh and blood we are a creation of the Devil.

The ultimate success of the Devil, which as a concept agrees with some of what SATANSQUE said in his original post, was drawing the first couple into carnal union which consummated their position as creatures of matter.

This created more clay scupltures, babies, and the soul was divided eternally until we find ourselves in our current position. This weakened state of spiritual being. Stretched infinitely across 6 billion humans. We are putty in the hands of the Devil and find ourselves further and further from the the kind, loving god that gave us our soul.

As an agnostic, probably due to my weakened state of spiritual being, I don't take these stories too seriously. However I find it all very interesting and always keep an open mind. We never know what's around the corner after all eh?

Originally posted by wigit
When I was young I was filled with that joy too. I used to think I could hear high pitched choirs and thought that was the angels singing.

The simplist explanation, is that they were angels.

Originally posted by wigit
I also used to get stuck out of body when I was really small. I would be in blackness and have to struggle to get to a light.

The perfect summation of Spirit/human existance

Originally posted by wigit
I'd comfort myself by singing "Jesus loves me this I know". Don't know why it happened, or why the song, but it worked.

Uh... that was God. Think about it. This material word is like a containment shell for our light, just as you say. But we get so caught up with our phyisical self, the pressures of living, dissapointments, and religious folks telling us we're sinners, that it's much easier to think that we aren't worthy to have God speaking to us personally.

Originally posted by wigit

I didn't get any loving voices though, I envy you that.

The only diference between you and me perhaps, is that I was completely alone, in a house with 5 other people, and I had no other thoughts on my mind, but God & survival. So basically I had fewer distractions.

Here's an excersize for you. If you can, find a picture of yourself when you young and filled with joy. Sit down in a quite place, and look at that picture, and remember the joy you felt. If you can't find a picture, close your eyes and remember. All of it is right there inside of you. Then sing your song, "Jesus loves me, yes I know" inside of your mind, and imagine Him/Her there, in your mind, playing the way children do.

And then, with the same innocence, ask any question your heart can imagine, and your friend will speak to you.

And wigit, spirits who are searching, or asking questions, or have had the kind of experiences you have had, never have to worry about Hell, if we live in the presence of God, in this life. And you will find God where there is perfect love. And yes, you are so worthy.

Originally posted by Lexion
Oddly, you don't mention Anton LeVey and the Satanic Bible.
In it, Anton states that Satan is God's best friend.
Without Satan, God has no reason to exist.
Lex

I actually met Anton through my endeavors in the TV business. I didn't mention him because he was in error. Good, does not need evil - Satan, to exist. Evil is a parasite, an imposition upon the Good, as a result of free will. Evil is a perversion of our spiritual nature - the refusal to be corrected - reactionary. So there can never be a ballance between Good and evil, because they are not equal. That which is created, can never be equal to, or greater than the the Source.

So the question is: Well if evil is in the manifested, then it had to be in the Source?

The Source is Absolute - perfect: One of the definitions of absolute is, being self-sufficient, and free of external references. Each manifested life, has that spark of Light, when that spark inhabits a body in the material world, it tends to forget. So the flesh is the source of contention, since it is the opposite of spirit.

Without the perfect freedom to forget God, freewill would be a joke. The material manifestation, was not created by God, but by a few of our spiritual brothers who lost their friggen' minds.

*There's an explanation of this here: Maybe the 12th thread from the top
(www.abovetopsecret.com...)

We are currently manifesting our individuality here, in this hell, where we use the most precious gift ever imagined to murder, rape, steel, molest children, etc., in a cycle of continuous birth and death, until this whole material realm is disolved, and those who like these thing, cease to exist. No hell, fire, brimstone, just peace from existing, and being at odds with the Source. Those who remember, go home. No time, evil, or darkness.

Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
I just thought I'd mention something about the Cathars, I'm sure SATANSQUE knows about them, because this physical world being hell is pretty much what they thought.

Some people believe in an all powerful benevolent god and a much less powerful evil being(the devil?).

However if you are to look at this world, a world created by an all powerful and benevolent god, then surely you must question what this kind and loving god was thinking?

Wouldn't it make more sense that the all powerful omnipotent god would be an arsehole? Like the devil?

Of course I am familiar with the Cathars, great folks, smart enough to reject the Church putting icons (deity worship) on the same level with Holy scripture, not smart enough to run, so the church murdered them.

Remember, the only reason folks believe God created this place, is because the Bible tells them so. I completely reject the bible as being the word of God, because men touched it, compiled it with their dirty little blood stained hands. The same men who murdered the cathers. So they have an agenda... to keep everyone stupid, and power, money, blah, blah, blah!

The Cathers were partly right about the creation. God did not create this material existance, it was an imposed upon a sector of the spiritual realm by spirits who were not equal to God, who were in error about a few things, but refused to correct themselves. So they needed a new place to live, and they created this Hell of birth and death. I have already presented quite a lenghty thread on this at:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The 12th post from the top. It begins with: A couple of quick notes about the rescue mission...

[edit on 26-5-2007 by SatansQue]

Is this hell? You mean the world around us today? The totality of it, physical, spiritual, and emotional? Are we in hell right now, today?

No.

Strictly speaking, as far as I know, what we think of as hell is derived from a concept way on the other side of The Cross. According to early Greek/Roman Mythology, and I believe to Judaic tradition as well, all souls were believed to go to "Hades", or the underworld, when the body they inhabited passed from physical existence. During the three days He was in the tomb, Christ descended into hell to proclaim the glad tidings of salvation to the saints.

Does hell exist? Yes. But this isn't it.

I believe modern history is taking place congruent with the 12th and 13th chapters of Revelation, with today falling somewhere in the second half of chapter 13. "If any man have an ear, let him hear." (Revelation 13:9)

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
I believe modern history is taking place congruent with the 12th and 13th chapters of Revelation, with today falling somewhere in the second half of chapter 13. "If any man have an ear, let him hear." (Revelation 13:9)

Your understanding of Hell, is in accordance with Bible teachings. According to what you have been told, not what you know. For you, and all those who believe the Bible is the "Word of God" your reality is shaped by a compilation of writings that you actually have absolutely no idea, who wrote them, or when, or if what you're reading is the original.

But of course your book tells you that it is comes from the all powerful, angry, vengful, jealous, murderous god, who told Abraham to kill his son, and slaughter innocent animals upon an alter, in worship of. And your book tells you to have "faith" that your god means every murderous word he says. No doubt he does.

I thank God there are still those of us, who believe in a God, who is not a murderer, and a liar - who has not become tainted by the evil men do, inflicting even more evil, and fear upon them, just because they were born into this Hell, this continuous cycle of birth and death, which could only have been created by evil, pretending to be God. An evil god, who incited the murder of the Christ, manifested in Jesus, and then sold the world a lie, that Jesus died for our sins.

If jesus had not said the things he said about love, and the equality of women, and accused those who would slander His Father/Mother God, they would have had no reason to murder him. And this is what evil men do when they want to silence the truth, they kill it. Just like the so-called leaders of the church who compiled your book, with their blood stained hands, and then when out and forced it upon the ignorant masses using murder, intimidation, and lies.

Only in Hell - the domain of evil, could the Love Of God, be murdered.

But what Jesus did, was to defeat the plans of death, and this Hell, and this same spirit of the Christ resides with those who understand His message of Love. And the Spirit of Christ needs no book touched by the hands of men to speak to us, in our hearts.

I know the Greatness of the God of Light, and Love, and of Hope, who has turned my slice of Hell into a heaven on earth, until the day we will meet again face to face.

And all your quotes from a book that has absolutely no credibility what-so-ever, as coming from God, will not change that. Especially since the only way your faith is renewed, is through witnessing the degradation of humankind, spoken of in your book, and hoping for your god to keep his word, to murder all the sinners.

No thanks, I'll keep my God, and the True Kingdom of Heaven in my heart.


[edit on 26-5-2007 by SatansQue]

There is only one God. All things work together for good through Him.

Elitism and prideful talk have no place in the kingdom of God. Your anger stands in stark contrast to the peace of those who have truly entered into His rest.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
There is only one God. All things work together for good through Him.

Elitism and prideful talk have no place in the kingdom of God. Your anger stands in stark contrast to the peace of those who have truly entered into His rest.

If if angry, I'm angry with the lies, and slander that are presented as truths concerning my God in your book.

Elitism, please! Define my elitism. What it is, is that you can't handle that which does not conform to what you have been told. And you are afraid to open your heart to the truth, the Christ, and put down that book of half truth, lies, slanders, murder, and retribution in the name of god.

I was just like you, and would have said the same exact things to what I have read here in this post before my eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit.

Pride, yes, I am guilty of being proud of my God, that He/She has turned my Hell into heaven on earth for a while.

All things do not work together for good, evil certainly does not. God does not need evil, to show us the Good. Only a god who is evil, would make such a claim.

Listen, slogans work great with advertising firms, and for people who don't know any better. Not here.

Again, this is what I believe.

The contrast is necessary for us prideful, stiff-necked, stubborn humans to get the message. The more prideful, stubborn, and stiff-necked we are, the tougher the lesson becomes.

I see that reflected all around me these days, not just in you.

God allows suffering in this world, which is not caused by Him, but by the foolish choices men make when tempted by evil, because it serves His purposes anyway. We can choose to give up fear and death, which the devil controls, and make the choice of the gift of eternal life in salvation by grace through faith on the Son of God, Jesus Christ. How much more the heavens rejoice when one soul does that!


[edit on 26-5-2007 by Icarus Rising]

I was just like you, and would have said the same exact things to what I have read here in this post before my eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit.

You are saying that the Bible is nothing but lies.

If this is true, as you say, how do you know that there is a Holy Spirit?

Didn't you have to learn about the Holy spirit by reading the Bible?

In my Bible, all of the words of Jesus are written in red.
Are you saying that "men" wrote these words and they are nothing but lies?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Again, this is what I believe.

The contrast is necessary for us prideful, stiff-necked, stubborn humans to get the message. The more prideful, stubborn, and stiff-necked we are, the tougher the lesson becomes.

I see that reflected all around me these days, not just in you.

You know, there's nothing prideful about being resentfull of the way men have perverted the nature of God in words.

See, in your mind the Holy Spirit can't be with me, because I don't believe as you do. My confidence in knowing the Holy Spirit, is not pride, it's a fact, and it would be a sin for me to deny the Holy Spirit in me.

All you can do is deny it. And little diggs. But you have no idea who and what I am, all you know is what I write, and reveal about myself.

Knowing the Christ Jesus, is what the Christ Jesus expects of us. Openning our hearts to Love, so the Holy Spirit can live in our hearts, is what is expected of us. I don't understand what's so hard for you to get?

You think it's a walk in the part to find that kind of love in your heart? You think a person would talk trash about the Holy Spirit, knowing who the Holy Spirit is. Please! It's no party. You can't get rich. people aren't lining up for your autograph. women aren't trying to jump my bones. Pride? In what? That I'm sitting here, wasting my time writing to someone who doesn't get IT?

You must be crazy.

I used to be spiritually immature, seeing perversions and inconsistancies in the so-called word of god, and finding a way to defend them. Like a spin doctor, putting the positive spin on your god's bad behavior. But one day, your mind, and heart learns the truth. And everything changes - one day you can't defend it anymore. You realize it a lie, and God doesn't lie.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
We can choose to give up fear and death, which the devil controls, and make the choice of the gift of eternal life in salvation by grace through faith on the Son of God, Jesus Christ. How much more the heavens rejoice when one soul does that!

Funny you didn't mention love. And this is what you have a problem understanding. Love is everything ; how we love and care for each other. The love comes first before you can ever think about salvation. The world is full of Christians, and people who say they believe in God, or the "word of god" but have no real love for each other.

How much more would the heavens rejoice over expressions of love for each other?

God does not allow suffering, are you crazy? So now God is a Voyeur. God gets off on our pain? Suffering is the object of this material realm. God did not create this world, and God never intended for us to get trapped here. God is working to getting those who want to be with God, off the planet.

Hey, you can call me anything you want, but it won't change my friendship with the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by wigit
Your thread had ME rolling around with laughter. What's with the, your God, your society, your history of violence, murder, violent nature of your children… your God your God your God about then. Aren't you from the same planet as us then?
Get off your high pedestal and get back to earth, I say.

Highly doubtful.

[edit on 13-5-2007 by SatansQue]

Bad things happen to 'good' people, life is a trial, but also a blessing. I know people who have lived through hell on earth and can stand before you and say "God is good". I am sorry you have not expeienced love and happiness in your life.

I have to ask. have you been watching Angel? just wondering

In a way I kinda wish it was. Then perhaps there would be a heaven which would give me more hope.

But probably this is just earth and we are earthlings and when we die, well, we will probably be just gone.

SatanQue.

I'm a bit confused I guess. Do you love God or not. It appear you believe He exists. Does that mean you believe in Jesus too, God's son, and true enemy of Satan.

Folks, don't let people try to tell you Hell doesn't exist. It does. Two minutes without God is eternal torture. I do have some personal experience with this, and would just like people to read my story before doubting God's power.

You see, your decisions are eternal. It's what happens after you die here that will
be affected by what you do in this life. That's what I gather from my experiences, anyway.

And if you want to know what Hell is like, Google Bill Weise.

Your OP had me

Now i've gotten back up off the floor and read most of the post i must say you are one interesting fellow.

Alot of what you say i agree with, i've been going through the whole is god the god of the bible thing for ages but it seems you sumed it up in a paragraph or two..

The real truth, is that God is in our hearts, if our hearts are filled with love for each other, and all living things. No worries about who's sinning, end of the world, who's having sex with whom. The Jesus I saw as a child, was a beautiful, loving human being.
In his presence there was a sense of wonder, and an excruciating joy for the simpliest of things. Based on what he said, I realized that he was the refection of his Father God, and my God.

This makes far more sense to me than the ramblings of evangelical spin doctors. And contradicting text.

But saying all this the bible does have alot of good things to offer ??

The truth is simple and uncomplicated many know the truth when they hear it.......

Originally posted by reaper2
But saying all this the bible does have alot of good things to offer ??

The truth is simple and uncomplicated many know the truth when they hear it.......

You know reaper, I couldn't agree more. BTW, Isn't this a beautiful thing, Satan and The reaper having a chat about God? LOL!!!

Matthew 22: 36-40 in my opinion, are the most beautiful words, ever spoken by any entity:

36‘Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?’ 37He said to him, ‘ “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.” 38This is the greatest and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.’

Ok? So when you hear this perfection, which by the way, if any man/woman/child read that, and then decided to spend the rest of their existance perfecting it, and nothing else, that person - his/her example is the only Bible any human being would ever have to read. And would have a full, complete, personal, interactive spiritual relationship with God. That was the promise of the Christ.

But when you mix lies with the truth, there is no way you can call that which you have created with your own hands Holy, no matter how pretty or sweet it is.

I know you know this. Perfect example,

From the Ten Commandments - Judaism 101:

1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."
2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d, such as worshiping G-d through an idol.
www.jewfaq.org...

In the Second Council of Nicaea - 787 A.D...
www.piar.hu...

..it was reaffirmed that iconology was ok, and not the same as worshipping deities. The purist who saw the image of Mary or Jesus, as a sculpture or painting, saw an image!

I lived in an ashram for 2 years watching people worship idols. When I see people bowing, crossing themselves in front of, placing flowers at the foot of Jesus mother Mary statues, folks, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it is deity worship.

And by making deities available for people to worship, the church is teaching folks to break the very 1st, 2 Commandment of the God they're claiming to love. How do you do this with a straight face?

Well, you change the Commandment if you're Catholic to read: 1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.

You leave out the part about images. LOL!!!

Originally posted by MagicaRose
I was just like you, and would have said the same exact things to what I have read here in this post before my eyes were opened by the Holy Spirit.

You are saying that the Bible is nothing but lies. If this is true, as you say, how do you know that there is a Holy Spirit? Didn't you have to learn about the Holy spirit by reading the Bible? In my Bible, all of the words of Jesus are written in red.
Are you saying that "men" wrote these words and they are nothing but lies?

How do you learn about the Holy Spirit without reading the Bible? Guess what, I'll quote your Bible to answer you:

Matthew 16:13
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Amen

[edit on 27-5-2007 by SatansQue]