Is This Hell?

SatansQue,

I have read this entire thread and I am very impressed by it.

Last night I did a lot of thinking about your ideas of Hell and God. I'm still pondering it. I will say that a lot of what was said brought me a great deal of comfort.

I have also studied religion for years and still don't have definite answers myself. THe oly thing I am SURE about is that our puropse in life is to find our way back to God. If we do not, then we have failed.

Anyway, I see you guys are talking about the Gnostics. I am not one...but came across this video a few years ago and watched it in it's entirety. It was veeeeeerrry profound. I was blown away by it. I still have not processed my feeling about it, but think that everyone should at least see it.

Here is a link to the video. I hope you find the time to watch it and comment on it.

www.gnosticmedia.com...:3

Stacey

The point is, you are making a false claim

So it turns out you have more to say to me after all.

Originally posted by SatansQue
All you had to do was ask me, "Satansque, did you get most of your ideas from studying gnosticism?" and I would have answered you.

I had no need to ask. It is perfectly clear to me that Gnosticism is the true source of the ideas you claim as your own. The purpose of my last post was to demonstrate this, not to seek information from you.

If your claim to have received your ideas in some sort of epiphany is an honest one, then, clearly, Gnostic doctrine must be true. But it cannot be; Gnosticism is a fantasy belief-system devised in an attempt to deal with the problem of evil within the context of Christianity and Neoplatonism. So you are making a false claim.

That is the whole of my point.

So one thing you can't call me is a liar. Well, I guess you can, but your opinion doesn't matter to me.

Perhaps not. Others, however, may see things differently.

You don't actually care about the underlying quest for truth, all you really cared about was trying to discredit me, as someone who claims to know the truth. I have no problem with that, but like most COWARDS, instead of approaching me like a man, and asking me straight up, then dealing with the answer, you try and sneak up from behind.

A coward? What exactly do you imagine I was afraid of? That you'd send the luminal body of Ma Tess to jab me with blunt sewing needles?

You claim to have come by your ideas through divine or spiritual revelation. This claim is, as I have demonstrated, false; you've pinched your ideas from Gnosticism. I gave you a chance to admit it. You didn't take it, so I exposed you. Thus do I participate in the quest for truth.

what proof do you have against the gnostic belief? i find a lot of their information insightful.

Hell doesn´t exist.

Sheol,hades etc means destruction common grave death.
After all a God of love wouldn´t create such a place.

Yep definet eternal torment is when you no longer exist, but could have had eternal life.

This is from a religious point of view, since the idea comes from religion in the first place-.

You say definet eternal torment and then eternal life then say there is no god, then what is your bases on both, if there is no god and there is no good vs evil then how do you come up with eternal torment/eternal life??

What i gather from your point of view is either your a atheist or you believe in randomness or maybe both, but that contradicts the theory of eternal torment/eternal life, which i would take it to mean you must believe in one or the other, which is it???

Originally posted by bicnarok
Hell doesn´t exist.

Sheol,hades etc means destruction common grave death.
After all a God of love wouldn´t create such a place. Yep definet eternal torment is when you no longer exist, but could have had eternal life. This is from a religious point of view, since the idea comes from religion in the first place-.

bicnarok,

Thanks for dripping by.

Excellent. So you have summerized the entire thread. I tend to agree with you that the God of Love isn't about creating a place of eternal damnation. Better to just let those who don't believe, or have given up their light, get what they want - nothingness.

I dissagree on eternal torment though, because then God would have to be bothered with maintaining a place where a spirit's consciousness contemplates what they lost. Which just seems like another manifestation of human fears. Besides, it's just more of what we have already, in this realm, which obviously, I believe is the real "Hell".

Seems more in line that a spirit would experience a moment of realization - that God is, and eternal life is a reality, just before the lights go out and the spirit ceases to exist. Even if it's only for a split second.

I don't believe God is vindictive, (that's a human thing) and really wants every spirit to attain peace. Even if that peace is attained by ceasing to exist.

It's pretty easy to see why the concept of an eternal Hell was created - to scare spirits into actively participating in religion. For Christians, hell represents the ultimate trump card in a debate. "Except Jesus, or die and go to Hell!"

It's so obvious a ploy, designed by men, even to the extent that they would ahem... put words into Jesus' mouth - in their so-called "Word of God" to back up the threat. Fear, fear, and more fear. Imagining that God is as evil as men, that He/She would love to see us cowering at his feet like scared puppies - pissing ourselves, as apposed to being joyfull in the knowledge that those who choose life, will be Loved eternally, by a loving God who would call us a friend.

It's also easy to see why the whole concept of past lives had to be done away with as well - to get folks to act in the so-called here and now, throughout the ages, rather than allowing them to believe they had another shot at getting it right.

But things seem to be winding down, or up, depending on your point of view. And I believe that everyone here, on this planet right now, will witness something amazing.

Originally posted by MauiStacey
Last night I did a lot of thinking about your ideas of Hell and God. I'm still pondering it. I will say that a lot of what was said brought me a great deal of comfort.

Thanks for saying that MauiStacey. There are a lot of really cool, intelligent people contributing to the discussion. And I've got my roller skakes on. It's a little validation for spending what seems like a way too much time on this.

Originally posted by MauiStacey
I have also studied religion for years and still don't have definite answers myself. THe oly thing I am SURE about is that our puropse in life is to find our way back to God. If we do not, then we have failed.

It is that simple, isn't it? Which direction do you feel you're leaning toward - for your ride back home?

Originally posted by MauiStacey
Anyway, I see you guys are talking about the Gnostics.

I'm not the one talking about Gnostics. LOL!!!

Originally posted by MauiStacey
It was veeeeeerrry profound. I was blown away by it.

Been a long time since I was blow away. I'll add it to my list of things to watch.

Thanks for dropping by.




[edit on 14-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Like we talked about before i myself have much to contemplant which i happen to agree with you a hundred percent, my thing is this, i as you believe in god but here's my debate, not so much with you but with someone else.


I think you should love god, talk about god, also you should love your neighbor and try and be as friendly to people as possible but i think you should do that because either you want to or for gods sake but i don't think you should mind control people to do these acts, for instance here's a video of a cult www.youtube.com... if you tell me that is the right way to get people to believe through fear and such then i stand corrected.


Where we slightly differ on views is, i think most people want to be better individuals and most do strive to do this even if they fail, but i like to look for the good in people and yes sometimes it can be hard.

Originally posted by WhatIsWhat
I think you should love god, talk about god, also you should love your neighbor and try and be as friendly to people as possible but i think you should do that because either you want to or for gods sake but i don't think you should mind control people to do these acts, for instance here's a video of a cult www.youtube.com... if you tell me that is the right way to get people to believe through fear and such then i stand corrected.

WhatIsWhat,

As this thread pertains to whether or not this existance here on earth is Hell, if someone needs to affirm that the video you posted is just... wrong, on so many different levels, then you my friend are sinking fast. LOL!!

But let's stay on point.

Originally posted by Astyanax
I had no need to ask. It is perfectly clear to me that Gnosticism is the true source of the ideas you claim as your own. The purpose of my last post was to demonstrate this, not to seek information from you.

Astyanax,

I wasn't kidding when I said you did a great job at making comparisons between what I believe, and Gnostism. And I'm sure those who are following this thread appreciated it as well. If I believed as you do, that someone was pilfering info, and taking credit for it as their own, I'm sure I would lead the same sort of charge.

The simularities are quite astonishing, and really took me aback. No wonder you are so strident in your pursuit of "Exposing me". And I applaud you for that. What surprises me even more, is the fact that I did not study Gnosticism.

I understand that you are more interested in what you believe, than what my truth is. I If I had studied Gnosticism, and thought it was a worthwile belief system for me, I wouldn't have had a problem admitting it at all. What's the big deal? But it doesn't change the fact that you know more about it than I do.

Since you are such a great sluth, I'm wondering if you've taken the time to read anything by Amitakh Stanford? Like I said, you'll find many simularities in our thoughts that are even closer than the ones you pointed out. Our use of the term true light beings, the material manifestation being imposed upon a sector of the spiritual realm. The 12 universes, evil creating the material manifestation, and more. It's all there.

You may also want to read the Emerald Tablets of Thoth. The concept of the light beings, and the dark brothers, cosmology, cause and effect, and many of the comments you quoted, I'll bet if you read thoth, you will see some amazing simularities. Also Origen, 1st century, and his comments on the gospels, and the Bible in general. If you haven't read any of these, then you really haven't done your homework on me, and shouldn't be making definitive assertions until you do.

I find it interesting that you seek to discredit my ability to remember past spiritual encounters, and knowledge that I have said, we all know. You shouldn't be surprised that spiritual knowledge concerning any religion, is programed into each and every cell of our bodies, via or DNA, subtle, and the double strand. To be here, at this moment in time, we have all been everything. A Jew, a Greek, an Egyptian, a Buddist, a follower of zorasthura, and yes, perhaps even a Gnostic. All religions originate from, and follow a basic theme, but use different names, words, etc., depending on the target audience.

And if your view of self is confined to this single lifetime, I can understand your confusion completely. But It doesn't make you right about your assertion.

But enough is enough. As you said: "The purpose of my last post was to demonstrate this, not to seek information from you." So if you're not interested in what I have to say, then perhaps you should find a new threat to amused yourself in. This is my thread you know?

If you want to contribute to this thread, and bring your considerable knowledge of Gnosticm to bare on whether or not "This Is Hell" then by all means knock yourself out.

But if all you're going to do is continuing making false claims against me (I know... you believe you're right) then I'm going to have to seek some administrative advice on how to deal with you.

Believe me, I wouldn't do it because I am in any way intimidated by what you say. Please! But you've said it - twice! Everyone here read it. If not, here's the link:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I perticularly liked this part:

Originally posted by Astyanax
Getting a little nervous, are we? I’m not surprised. Six thread pages and nobody’s yet called your bluff; you must be biting those Satanic nails of yours, wondering how much longer you’ve got.

"Biting those Satanic nails?" LOL!!

Ok? Now, back on point.





[edit on 14-6-2007 by SatansQue]

LOL i know bro but if your gonna trust me on one thing it's this,as funny as that video is, that cult stuff i showed you does really go on.


Back on topic, do you think this planet has always been hell or do you think it's manifested it's self over the years as such.


Anyway take care bro....peace.

Originally posted by WhatIsWhat
LOL i know bro but if your gonna trust me on one thing it's this,as funny as that video is, that cult stuff i showed you does really go on.

Back on topic, do you think this planet has always been hell or do you think it's manifested it's self over the years as such.

Anyway take care bro....peace.

Because I believe evil created the material manifestation, as an alternative reality to our true home, with our Creator, then it began as a hell, and nothing has changed since.

The Gnostic double-bind

Originally posted by Malakai
what proof do you have against the gnostic belief? i find a lot of their information insightful.

You have to see Gnosticism in the context of the prevailing belief systems of the eastern part of the Roman Empire around the Constantinian period. Belief in the classical gods had largely died out, to be replaced by Christianity and a variety of other 'oriental' faiths which, in their original form, were rather primitive; to remedy this shortcoming, Greek intellectuals created for these beliefs a metaphysical superstructure drawn largely from a religious-philosophical intellectual system (not quite a religion, not quite a philosophy) called Neoplatonism, which in turn was derived -- at some remove -- from the ideas of Plato; in case you want to explore this further, the greatest of the Neoplatonists was a man called Plotinus. His work is well worth reading.

The trouble with both Christianity (by far the most popular of the new religions) and Neoplatonism is that they postulate a Supreme Being or Idea that is both omnipotent and good. Now any fool can see that a god who is wholly good cannot possibly be omnipotent, and vice versa. The irreconcilability of goodness and omnipotence stuck in the craw of people who liked to add a dash of thought to their believing; it came to be known as 'the problem of evil' and heroic efforts were made (and in the case of Christianity, are still being made) to solve it. The Gnostics came up with what looks at first glance like the perfect answer: the creator of the world is neither good nor omnipotent; the creator of the world is an inferior being, not God. Heigh-ho.

The trouble with this solution, unfortunately, is that it creates the opposite problem: what you might call the 'problem of good'. If the world is such a dunghill, how come there's so much goodness and beauty in it? The Gnostics tied themselves in knots trying to solve it, dreaming up 'divine sparks' and endless hierarchies of demiurges and archons and principalities and powers and what-have-you, ending up with a belief system so convoluted that nobody could really grasp and comprehend it, which is why it died out (though persecution by the early Church Fathers helped that process along considerably).

If you feel like a laugh, get our Satanic Threadstarter to explain his sacred vision to you in detail. If he manages the logical contradictions any better than generations of Gnostic philosophers did, I'll eat my hat.

Originally posted by Astyanax
The trouble with this solution, unfortunately, is that it creates the opposite problem: what you might call the 'problem of good'. If the world is such a dunghill, how come there's so much goodness and beauty in it?

The venus fly trap is a perfect annalogy to understand the realtionship between this material universe created by evil, and the so-called problem of what appears to be goodness and beauty in this world.

Why does an insect venture to explore the suc a carnivorus entity?

How It Traps Its Prey:
Insects are attracted to the plant by the sent and its color.

www.twingroves.district96.k12.il.us...

So to the fly, or grasshopper, the venus flytrap looks beautiful, and smells good. Once it's caught:

The trap constricts tightly around the insect and secretes digestive juices, much like those in your stomach. It dissolves the soft, inner parts of the insect, but not the tough, outer part called the exoskeleton. At the end of the digestive process, which takes from five to twelve days, the trap reabsorbs the digestive fluid and then reopens. The leftover parts of the insect, the exoskeleton, blow away in the wind or are washed away by rain

www.botany.org...

Interesting how it only eats the soft inner parts, and spits out the exoskeleton?

Well, imagine for a moment that you are one of the original children of God, living in the spiritual realm with god, and all of your buddies. In the spirit realm there can only be one singular mind, or will, that all spirits recognize as the the vibration of the Father creator.

So there we are, manifested living spirits, sparks of life, lights from the source, living in a realm where our thoughts are manifested as living entities, by proxy, because of the oneness we share with the Creator in form, and substance, with a qualitative (not quantitative) understanding of everything, free from anxiety, fear, death, hunger, thirst, taking a crap, or even sexual unions, and not even concerned about it, because there are just way too many discoveries, and adventures than we can imagine.

Now the very act of manifesting spirits - life outside of the mind of our Father God, means that a place must be concieved for the multitude of spiritual entities to dwell. Because as long as we simply remained as thoughts within the consciousness of our creator, we are as perfect as our creator, because there is no duality in God.

You always hear the part about our Father God being unmanifested. Well, what this refers to is the idea that our Father God, does not need to manifest us, in order for us to exist, and for Him to experience us, in reality, within His own consciousness. So, the act of manifesting us, is really for our benifit, giving us the joy of experiencing what it's like to be God, as long as we are in complete harmony with the will of God - exploring the vastness of His creative mind. So because God is absolute, every thought or word from God is a living spiritual entity.

Which means that merely thinking of manifesting us, creates a living spiritual vibratory entity, that is in essence, the manifesting thought vibration that takes us from the mind of our Father God, into a spiritual realm capable of supporting not just the spiritual beings such as us, but everything that is required for us to think and explore the spiritual realm, in harmony with God, but colored by our own individual vibratory nature. So our true form is a combination of colors, light, sound, and God essence, which cannot be explained in human language.

So the manifesting spiritual entity responcible for moving us from the mind of God, into the spirit realm, is called our Mother God. Not two Gods, but one God unmanifested, and His manifested thoughts of us, into a realm fit for spiritual exploration. It's like, I am a sculptor, writer. These vibrations co-exist within me and are slightly different thought processes, but it's still me.

Once we become manifested spiritual entities, basically what we are, are little gods, each posessed with the qualitative power of God, through the very substance we are made from. Because we are individual spiritual beings, with our own distinct vibrations, the possiblity exists that one or more of us, will want to imagine that there is something else out there, somewhere, that we don't know about, and that our Father God, or Mother God can't explain to us.

Any parent has seen this type of behavior in their children. Here we are twenty-thirty years older than they are, experienced in life, and your 3 year old tries to tell you that you don't understand.

So a few of our spiritual brothers had this notion. Problem is, the minute the question arises that breaks the harmony of the collective vibratory consciousness of the spiritual realm in which we lived, there were only two choices: Either our brothers had to get back in harmony, or they would have to leave. Because there is no room for duality in the spirtual realm.

Well things were said, followed by a few hissy fits. But meanwhile, our brothers were really letting their imaginations run wild, seeing all kinds of exciting, freaky new ideas that they were excited about making real. This also included the creation of a new dwelling, where they could begin putting some of their ideas in motion.

So they used thier spiritual knowledge, and power to manifest a new realm, which of course wouldn't have the same energy as the previous spiritual realm, but it would be located in close proximity to it, because they understood the need for a very important piece to the puzzel, to really make their new world hum.

They needed the spiritual spark - the light from as many of our brother and sisters as they could get to come over to the new world. The more they could convince to join them the longer they would be able to keep the alternative world open for business.

But the problem was, how do you convince a bunch of goody-two-shoes to come over to the dark side? Well the first thing you do is create, within a material realm, senses that mimic the former ecstacy of the spiritual realm. So they thought, "Well, we don't eat in the spiritual realm, how about we fill our new palce with all kinds of really amazing things to eat, that will completely dazzel the sense of these schmoes?

ContContinue:inue:

Once they had figured out how to mimic the spiritual senses, to fit into the structure of the material realm, they went to work on figuring out what our bodies would look like, and how, they could tweek the senses so we could experience something close to the ectasy of living in the spirit realm with it myriad spiritual vibrations.

So they devised these bodies with sex organs, boobs and hips that they understood would be pleasing, and at the same time addictive. But they also understood that the bodies would eventually grow old, become astectically unpleasing, and die. So they figured a birth and death cycle would do the trick to keep us coming back for more.

And as far as the beauty aspect is concerned, well, if you're planning on tricking the goody-two-shoes into joining you in your new world, or at least, create curiousity about it, enough to get them to investigate, well, it's has to be at least, as beautiful, or compelling enough to give it whirl.

They knew that just getting close to the rim, of the material realm would be enough to set the trap, just like our venus flytrap. "Oh, look," the goody-two-shoes would say. "What is that over there?" And then they would move closer and closer, until, next thing you know, your spirit is vibrating into a tunnel, spinning, getting more and more dense, and then bam! You're being yanked out from between some dames legs, and suddenly you feeling things you never felt before.

Now you have a mind that seems to imagine stuff you've never imagined before. You're getting glimpses of a former existance, but you're a baby, helpless, immobile. But something is really bothering the hell out of you - it's your stomach. You're trapped in a little body, and the next thing you know, you're crying, complaining, and the woman sticks a tit in your mouth, "What the heck?" you're thinking as the milk begins to flow. "Hey, that's pretty good stuff. And the nipple thing is great to suck on too."

So you spend the first 12 - 13 years in limbo, growing. And just as you think you're making some sence of the situation, some one of the opposite sex, shows you what to do with your groove thang, and it's lights out.

Meanwhile your former brothers in the light, have now devised all sorts of horrendous things to happen, like wars, and murder, and taking women by force, and booze, and drugs, etc. See, the now dark brothers, discovered that our energy output, is maximized by stress, and worry, and fighting, and sex, sex, sex.

So they wrote books, and pretend they came from God, telling us about being fruitful and multiplying. And how God likes sacrifices, and wars with those who don't believe in the books. And then our dark brothers discovered that every spirit has a breaking point, at which they would do anything in between physical forms, to have an opportunity for a better life on earth, or on some other planet in the material universe.

So they absorb your light from the inside out, just like our venus flytrap, and then they spit you back into the world, in a better, higher up position, above the poor, and destitute, with the understanding that you will do your best to convince others that it's better to just let them absorb your light. This way, they're guareenteed access to the energy from your spirit for as long as they need it.

But here's the problem. Pretty much as soon as our Mother God, found out what our dark brothers had done, they began investigating the material realm for flaws in it's design. The dark brothers were pretty ingenius is creating all sorts of barriers, made of sharp angles, that made it difficult to just enter here, and then escape unless you could do it, without loosing consciousness of your true spirit self.

So pretty much from the start, our Mother God has been sending emisaries, to this realm in different forms, with the directive to investigate, remain detached, and remind the captives that this place isn't home. In the spirit realm, it's been like, since yesturday, because there is no linier time. In the material realm, our dark brothers were getting a little cocky, because they're been at it for hundreds of thousands of linier years.

The last spirit that came from the spirit realm, was the spirit of our Mother God, in the form of a man called Jesus. His/Her job was to spring the final trap on our dark brothers, making them believe that Jesus was just a trouble maker who would get himself killed. But when Jesus merged the physical body, with the spirit, after the cross, this action tore a hole in the matrix of the material manifestation that acts as an escape route out, for those spirit who understand.

So in closing. The material world was created by evil, for the purpose of trapping spirits within the cycle of birth and death. They needed to trap us, because they needed our Light - that spark in us from God, to keep the illusion humming. And they created it to appear pleasing and beautiful, because like the old saying goes, "You can catch more flys with honey." Or a beautiful venus flytrap.

It's just that simple.

[edit on 22-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Satan self-exposed

You call yourself a writer, but that unnecessarily long-winded exegesis says different. Especially for someone who claims to have worked in television. Your style of writing would appear better suited to the pulpit than the soundbite box.

You could have answered my quoted question in a sentence, saying something like this:

'The apparent goodness and beauty of the world are bait, set to attract spiritual beings who are themselves naturally good and beautiful into material bodies.'

But thank you, thank you kindly for sermonizing at such length, because in doing so you have completely proved my point.

My point, just to remind you, is that

your claim to a personal spiritual revelation of the nature of God and reality is fraudulent.

I will add that

your claim to know nothing about Gnosticism is also fraudulent.

I shall not bother quoting from your post; no need to bore people twice. Instead, I'll simply quote from the Wikipedia page on Gnosticism. Interested ATS members can compare my extracts with the rigmarole you have presented above and draw their own conclusions.

Gnostic systems are typically marked by:

1. The notion of a remote, supreme monadic divinity...

2. The introduction by emanation of further divine beings... progressive emanations are often conceived metaphorically as a gradual and progressive distancing from the ultimate source...

3. The subsequent identification of the Fall of Man as an occurrence with its ultimate foundations within divinity itself... this stage in the divine emanation is usually enacted through the recurrent Gnostic figure of Sophia...

Or, as you put it,

the manifesting spiritual entity responcible for moving us from the mind of God, into the spirit realm, is called our Mother God.

The 'Mother God' you refer to is called Sophia by Gnostics, as you know very well.

4. The introduction of a distinct creator god... who is sometimes ignorant of the superior God, and sometimes opposed to it; in the latter case he is correspondingly malevolent. The demiurge typically creates a group of coactors named 'Archons'...

Your so-called 'dark brothers'

...who preside over the material realm and, in some cases, present obstacles to the soul seeking ascent from it.

5. The estimation of the world, owing to the above, as flawed or a production of 'error'... In certain cases it is also perceived as evil and constrictive, a deliberate prison for its inhabitants.

Or, as you like to put it, 'this is Hell'.

6. The explanation of this state through the use of a complex mythological-cosmological drama in which a divine element 'falls' into the material realm and lodges itself within certain human beings; from here, it may be returned to the divine realm through a process of awakening...

...the bill of goods you've been trying to sell us here.

7. Knowledge of a specific kind as a central factor in this process of restoration, achieved through the mediation of a redeemer figure (Christ...).

If anyone else is still bothering with this thread, I'm sure the above extracts, which tally exactly with your line, will be evidence enough of your inveracity and bad faith. You've been taking advantage of the obscurity of Gnosticism to puff yourself up to ATS members as something you are not.

We don't take kindly to that sort of thing here.

I say again: vade retro nos, Satanas.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Satan self-exposed

You call yourself a writer, but that unnecessarily long-winded exegesis says different. Especially for someone who claims to have worked in television. Your style of writing would appear better suited to the pulpit than the soundbite box.

You could have answered my quoted question in a sentence, saying something like this:

'The apparent goodness and beauty of the world are bait, set to attract spiritual beings who are themselves naturally good and beautiful into material bodies.'

But thank you, thank you kindly for sermonizing at such length, because in doing so you have completely proved my point.

My point, just to remind you, is that

your claim to a personal spiritual revelation of the nature of God and reality is fraudulent.

I will add that

your claim to know nothing about Gnosticism is also fraudulent.

You seem to have a real problem with letting go of your own self importance, and trying to impose your beliefs on me. Like I said before, I doubt that you have taken the time to read the the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, or anything by Amitakh Standford as I suggested.

Why should you? Your intellectual dishonesty, and false accusations are all any fool need in this world to rise to some level of self-important on the backs of those who have done all the work.

But this is fun for me. The fact that you posted on my thread, means that I am supposed to offer up some kind of responce. That's how it works. But you're right, I've invested way too much time in sorry ass. ''

So, since it's just you and me at this point, because you love me so much, I took all that time just to give you more stuff to quote from... damn!

I should just give you my password so you can write posts for me, since you're so good at knowing how I should reply.

Although, you got me, because I now must admit that I have actually studied Gnosticism... through your post. LOL!! Because this is the most I have ever read on the subject in my life. LOL!!

I absolutely love it that you keep insisting that I am being Deceitful in hiding my knowledge of Gnosticism, because on a personal level, you keep verifying what I've said about my past life experiences. Not that I really need it, but I thank you for your vociferous challenges.

So, I'm having fun with you, cause you're cute. You're like one of those little yapper-snapper dogs women like to carry around, always barking at people, and trying to bite your ankles. Your funny like that.

So keep on, keeping on, as they say. The last time I had a decent nemesis was in high school. It's great: I have the costume, and a nemesis. Wow! I'm like, a not so super hero, with words!

[edit on 23-6-2007 by SatansQue]

Have you heard of Jakob Lorber? Here: en.wikipedia.org...
I can't say I believe it yet, nevertheless, I find it very interesting. In his New Revelations, he speaks of God explaining to him the creation of earth, the material world and human beings.

In a nutshell, God (or his messenger) says that:

- Souls are divisible, and are created out of many different particles. Thes particles pull together to ‘crystallize’ into a Soul. The particles come from God and represent his myriad of ideas…so the particles pull together to create a belief (Soul). When a Soul ‘crystallizes’ into being, it cannot reverse, it is as it is - unless it is dissolved in Love, and then it can ‘re-crystallize’ into a ‘better’ form.

- Lucifer was the First Light, received everything from God. He was able to see the polarities of being, but was never able to see God. He created other Beings with God, the problem was that he wanted to be God, ‘swallow’ God. He didn’t want to accept that he was a Finite being, and so could never ‘see’ God, could never be, or ‘swallow’ God, because God was an Infinite. Lucifer was created, God was not.

- God has all within him, but can maintain a balance of being. Lucifer lost that balance, trying to be like God, and refusing to accept himself. In addition, he was full of pride, and lacking humility. He turned other Beings God had created, and Beings he had created as well against God. Some beings were loyal to God.

Now this part:

And Lucifer was cast out of heaven to the earth……

Meaning, this entire Universe IS Lucifer. He was cast out of a free dimension into this material ‘jail’ as it were, because this was the only hope of saving him. Each one of his belief particles had to crystallize (us humans) and be changed, one by one. Only then is he allowed home. Following this train of thought, there must be other Universes, because other beings were cast down with him…

Everything in our Universe is a particle of Lucifer. All particles, down to the very last must all be righted and balanced out to balance out Lucifer himself. (God knows all his sheep, etc) But Lucifer fell further into err, now believing that without him, this World would never have been created and that his actions against God had been necessary (showing further pride, lack of humility, unwillingness to admit fault, etc.) But God said his end goal was not to create the material world, he could have done well without it. His end goal is to create free Beings, that can create with him, understand him and be with him. For that end, he has no need for a material world. But, he loved Lucifer dearly, and from that didn’t want to destroy him, and all the other beings attached to him…also there would be no point, as the next creatures he would create to replace Lucifer would make the same mistakes anyhow. There is no other way, Lucifer has to go through this.

Lucifer ‘hardened’ himself, in a way, God made that hardening more bearable. Lucifer then hardened himself further in his misguided beliefs, further outward from the centre of balance, and misled humans (belief particles), who have the freedom of choice, with God or against him. All creation has this choice, on every level. Everything is free. In this life, we live out our beliefs, which can only be changed through experience. Nothing else can change a belief, except for love. Love is easier than experience, but often we choose experience, which in the end leads to love…I guess.

...cont'd

Lucifer led everything so far into darkness, that God had to enter , to bring light. Everything here represents different degrees of Lucifer’s hardness, from rocks through to the sky. Once soul particles have passed each phase (rocks, plants, animals…) they form together to create a Soul, ever moving upward to create the big picture - but never going backward. A human soul cannot regress to a plant soul. Once you go forward you cannot go back. Those are the pieces of the puzzle. We are all One.

Many pieces of world religions fall into place with this theory…I think. Why Lucifer can roam to and fro across the earth and still is in contact with God, who seems so patient...why he is allowed to test us humans. He is testing beliefs..

And yeah, in this case you would be right, this world is evil, but not without hope or purpose, or love. And not created out of evil…but created with evil. I think this theory is more hopeful than many others out there…it was written between 1840 - 1864 in Graz, Austria.

Once again the link about Jakob Lorber: en.wikipedia.org...






[edit on 23-6-2007 by Soraia]

[edit on 23-6-2007 by Soraia]

Originally posted by Soraia
And yeah, in this case you would be right, this world is evil, but not without hope or purpose, or love. And not created out of evil…but created with evil. I think this theory is more hopeful than many others out there…it was written between 1840 - 1864 in Graz, Austria.

Thanks for dropping by Soraia,

Cool stuff. The point of calling this place hell, is that it's not our true home. It is not meant to last for eternity. So this world, this material universe with simply ceace to exist. When, who knows. Some say sooner, some later. What's the dif?

The hopefull aspect, the purpose, and the love is directed towards the Christ, (which is the Love of God manifested) and being Christ like, because the Christ has provided a way off of this rock - a rescue mission so to speak, for those who have not given over their light - that spark of God, to our dark brothers, (Lucifer is one of them) who created this realm of birth and death.

Those who gave up their light to them, simply cease to exist, along with those who created it, when linier time runs out. No enternal Hell and damnation, just peace from the cycle of birth and death.

Originally posted by SatansQue
You seem to have a real problem with letting go of your own self importance.

Your intellectual dishonesty, and false accusations are all any fool need in this world to rise to some level of self-importance on the backs of those who have done all the work.

You're like one of those little yapper-snapper dogs women like to carry around, always barking at people, and trying to bite your ankles.

Outstanding stuff for a person who claims to have a direct line to God.

I hardly think I need say any more.

Too bad the way above link is gone, Astyanax, because I'd give you a vote.

I guess you'll have to settle for thanks. Thanks for owning and exposing Beezlebub here. Your comparison of Gnosticism and this guy's tripe mesh a bit too well for him to have come up with this by himself. His response after you owned him was the icing on the cake.

I bet he was feeling real good when people were buying his plagiarism. Well done, Astyanax, well done.