Can't Believe in Human Evolution From Chimps

It is a simple enough question. Mutations cause genetic disorders that kill some people and animals in a very unpleasant way, but sometimes they give an advantage. If I need to explain that idea any further you are not the one to answer my question.

So the question again....

What was Gods point in creating mutations ? Because if God was the "intelligent designer" and God was perfect. Mutations could not exist, there would be no point to them. You can not degrade perfection. You can only degrade something that already has a weakness.

So either mutations are the basis of evolution and God plays no part in it. Or God created mutations.

Just looking for a creationist explanation.

If we evolved from the same ancestor how come humans have 46 chromosomes and primates have 48. Thats a HUGE amount of information lost from dna. How come primates are far superior in strength and better selfhealing skin abilities.

Something is not right for sure.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
It is a simple enough question. Mutations cause genetic disorders that kill some people and animals in a very unpleasant way, but sometimes they give an advantage. If I need to explain that idea any further you are not the one to answer my question.

I don't feel like reading the same arguments over and over again so when you're done being shallow I'll do my best to answer YOUR question.

So the question again....

What was Gods point in creating mutations ? Because if God was the "intelligent designer" and God was perfect. Mutations could not exist, there would be no point to them. You can not degrade perfection. You can only degrade something that already has a weakness.

So either mutations are the basis of evolution and God plays no part in it. Or God created mutations.

Just looking for a creationist explanation.

Every person who doesn't believe in God always ask the same pointless question a simple Google search will provide. God made things "very good" in the Genesis account. It wasn't His fault we sinned and fell. That's why things are they way they are; it's because of SIN. Our sinful natures to be lawless and disobey is what caused all of this pain and suffering. Adam and Eve were perfect creations until they ate the forbidden fruit. Our punishment was death and a curse upon the earth. Stop blaming God for the pain and suffering; blame humanity for what it's brought upon itself and the planet. We did this to ourselves. If by chance that answer doesn't work may I point you in the direction of the history books and current events. WE, as humans, cause pain and suffering. Mutations were part of the "curse" God gave us for Adam and Eve's disobediance.

Originally posted by novastrike81 If by chance that answer doesn't work may I point you in the direction of the history books and current events. WE, as humans, cause pain and suffering. Mutations were part of the "curse" God gave us for Adam and Eve's disobediance.

So when did this disobedience take place? Before or after the dinosaurs? Did god make the dinosaurs genetically perfect?

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by novastrike81 If by chance that answer doesn't work may I point you in the direction of the history books and current events. WE, as humans, cause pain and suffering. Mutations were part of the "curse" God gave us for Adam and Eve's disobediance.

So when did this disobedience take place? Before or after the dinosaurs? Did god make the dinosaurs genetically perfect?

There was no before and after dinosaurs. They were created with the rest of creation. Everything was "very good" i.e. perfect before the fall of man. Yes everything was genetically perfect before the earth was cursed and all life was punished with death after sin entered the world. The word "dinosaurs" wasn't around until the 1800s.

Originally posted by DarkSide
Heronumber0, I would love to see scientific evidence for an organ popping into existance by the will of God, or any evidence that support's ID as a whole

Your the one that believes in extraordinary claims, you have to prove them.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by DarkSide]

Here is proof of the intelligent design of a synthetic organ. This wasn't an accident. This isn't sitting in the petri dish accidentally. It took an intelligent designer to figure out how to manufacture it. And it even took an intelligent guy to implant it into a human being.



h ttp://centripetalnotion.com/2006/04/06/00:55:54/

Article: news.nationalgeographic.com...


[edit on 29-4-2010 by MKULTRA]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by MKULTRA]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by MKULTRA]

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by novastrike81 If by chance that answer doesn't work may I point you in the direction of the history books and current events. WE, as humans, cause pain and suffering. Mutations were part of the "curse" God gave us for Adam and Eve's disobediance.

So when did this disobedience take place? Before or after the dinosaurs? Did god make the dinosaurs genetically perfect?

There was no before and after dinosaurs.

No after? I don't see any around now..

They were created with the rest of creation. Everything was "very good" i.e. perfect before the fall of man. Yes everything was genetically perfect before the earth was cursed and all life was punished with death after sin entered the world.

So are you in fact saying that humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time?

When? was my other question. How many years ago did we both come into existence? Specifically.

The word "dinosaurs" wasn't around until the 1800s.

Tomato Tomarto. How is that even relevent? Did the non existence of the word effect the existence of fossils in some way? If you are argueing it does please take the word "dragon" into account. It is an ancient word.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by DarkSide
I think self-awareness is enough to prove to be sentient. You don't build nuclear reactors on instinct.

Quite true. You don't see tornadoes going through junkyards and spitting out functioning nuclear reactors. There's no accident involved. Whatever force was involved in designing the sun was pretty smart, and completely intentional.

Originally posted by riley
So are you in fact saying that humans and dinosaurs existed at the same time?

Yes, humans and "dinosaurs" lived together. Humans and Dinosaurs Whether you believe it or not is up to you. They drew what they saw and I think it's hard for them to imagine something they haven't seen before with such accuracy with comparable fossils and bones don't you think?

When?was my other question. How many years ago did we both come into existence? Specifically.

I thought when was to be meant in a general sense so I'm sorry for misunderstanding your meaning. The most common belief is that the Earth started at 4,004 B.C. according to those who tried to date Adam and Eve based on the time lines given in the Bible. It doesn't say when they sinned but given the amount of time it takes for them to sin it can be assumed it was a day or two. However, the Hebrew calender is at 5,676 which would date them back to 3,761 B.C.

Tatato Tatarto. How is that even relevent? Did the non existence of the word effect the existence of their fossils in some way? If you are argueing it does please take the word "dragon" into account. It is an ancient word.
[edit on 29-4-2010 by riley]

Most people don't know dragon was the original form and I wasn't going to assume what you knew or didn't know. So I just threw it out there with no relevant purpose other than to inform.

I always miss something, lol. You don't seem them around now because the fossilized ones died during the flood and a lot of others died out during the Ice Age. Hence why we see Mammoths around but we have them frozen in blocks of ice. One doesn't get frozen in ice over a period of time while they are still eating.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81


Is that the park where they talk about humans saddling up and riding the t-rex?

Yeah okay. I'm very glad you killed your own credibility now rather than stringing us along waiting for that perfect segway to post your pathetic young earth propoganda. Well done very subtle!

[edit on 29-4-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Is that the park where they talk about humans saddling up and riding the t-rex?

Yeah okay. I'm glad you killed your own credibility now rather than stringing us along waiting for that perfect segway to post your pathetic young earth propoganda. Well done very subtle!

Uh, what are you talking about? Why would you want to ride a t-rex anyway? Clearly, your ignorance is pathetic in the fact that you want to attack my credibility based on facts that science can't answer. Just when I thought I was going to have a civil conversation you had to go and be a (snip)
[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by asala]

reply to post by novastrike81


You posted to a young earth propoganda site. Your whole argument is "how did they know what dinosaurs looked like?"

Exactly the same way we do... by looking at their fossils.

edit. excluding things like the komono dragon and other large lizards.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
reply to post by novastrike81

 

You posted to a young earth propoganda site. Your whole argument is "how did they know what dinosaurs looked like?"

Exactly the same way we do... by looking at their fossils.

edit. excluding things like the komono dragon and other large lizards.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by riley]

And your "correct" theory is what? The old earth theory where Radio-metric dating puts the Earth at 4.6 billion years old?

You also failed to mention the part where I said a majority of the dinosaurs died during the flood so obviously there were fossils around to view. Clearly your credibilty is shattered by lack of reading and comprehension.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by Yarcofin
If evolution is gradual and only beneficial mutations are retained, how does anything gain flight? Until the forelimbs of the animal are of sufficient lift, there is no survival benefit.

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
reply to post by Yarcofin

 

If evolution is gradual and only beneficial mutations are retained, how does anything gain flight? Until the forelimbs of the animal are of sufficient lift, there is no survival benefit.

You'll just get the typical "oh it didn't just happen over night it took millions of years at a slow process to develop wings and everything needed to fly." That's saying all predators leave them alone for millions of years for this so called mutation to take effect.

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
reply to post by Yarcofin

 

If evolution is gradual and only beneficial mutations are retained, how does anything gain flight? Until the forelimbs of the animal are of sufficient lift, there is no survival benefit.

They would help with balance.. even humans use their arms to balance themselves when high up. Wings, arms and fins all act as rudders whether it be in water or air.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
reply to post by Yarcofin

 

If evolution is gradual and only beneficial mutations are retained, how does anything gain flight? Until the forelimbs of the animal are of sufficient lift, there is no survival benefit.

They would help with balance.. even humans use their arms to balance themselves when high up. Wings, arms and fins all act as rudders whether it be in water or air.

It doesn't explain how they develop, even if it's a beneficial mutation. Saying wings develop over thousands, millions of years to evade predators is absurd. It violates the theory itself which is natural selection. Also whats the point of having wings if it's just to balance and not fly? There is no point in having wings then. Wings are used for flying and in the case of penguins, swimming.

And you attack my credibility....

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by riley
...so having slightly longer limbs for balancing purposes gives such an advantage over their slightly shorter limbed comrades, that these shorter limbed versions can't compete and die out?

reply to post by novastrike81
I've been told that evolution can be sudden and big changes can just happen. When they say 'can', I think what they really mean is 'needs to in order to retain a valid theory'.



[edit on 29-4-2010 by Robert Reynolds]

Originally posted by Robert Reynolds
reply to post by novastrike81

 

I've been told that evolution can be sudden and big changes can just happen. When they say 'can', I think what they really mean is 'needs to in order to retain a valid theory'.
[edit on 29-4-2010 by Robert Reynolds]

Yes, it's an ever changing theory that can't make up it's mind. It's a wonder why it's still around; I assume it's because it's "science" and everything that's said must be true!

Theory as evolutionists define: A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.