Can't Believe in Human Evolution From Chimps

reply to post by rnaa


primordial soup? *cough* at the bottom of every pond/ocean exists waterlogged dirt/silt.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


The shape of the Neaderthal skull indicates that this is so. If you look at a Neanderthal skull, notice how it slopes gently. Then compare it to a human skull where it almost bulges out at the front. This indicates that the front part of the brain, i.e. the prefrontal cortex, was more developed in homo sapiens than in Neanderthals.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by Bob Sholtz

 

The shape of the Neaderthal skull indicates that this is so. If you look at a Neanderthal skull, notice how it slopes gently. Then compare it to a human skull where it almost bulges out at the front. This indicates that the front part of the brain, i.e. the prefrontal cortex, was more developed in homo sapiens than in Neanderthals.

Egyptians had elongated skulls in some of their pharoahs. Does that mean they are not humans? Also please prove that Neanderthals are not human. Having a smaller prefrontal cortex does not make it it's own species. We have humans with over sized brains and small brains and different shaped skulls. They are still human by our standard. What makes a Neanderthal less than human or it's own species?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81

it could have been a different mammal for all we know. It's just a best guess with no evidence; just similarities.

Are you being willfully ignorant? We know its apes. The physical, behavioral and genetic similarities are so uncanny that no other conclusion comes close. The fossil record has also born out that fact. We came from apes and the similarities ARE THE EVIDENCE.

You see we've learned enough about biology to understand that traits are passed down from generation through generation and we also learned that mutations to the genetic information can also be passed. These small gradual changes that creationists erroneously refer to as "micro-evolution" over time lead to the macroevolution known as Speciation, the evolution of a new species. Speciation has actually been observed in several cases so we know it happens.

Aside from all the evidence supporting Evolution there is a surprising lack of evidence supporting ANY OTHER CONCLUSION. As such Evolution is the predominant theory. In order for mainstream science to abandon Evolution one would have to dig up a ton of evidence. Thus far nothing in the fossil record, genetic research or any other part of biology science points to a different conclusion, all the evidence points toward evolution. Is that to say there aren't errors in modern Evolution theory, of course not. Is that to say there aren't still things Evolutionists can't explain just yet, again no.

But a mystery, an enigma, does not get solved by slapping a "God did it" label on. The only way to figure it out is to keep studying it and looking where the evidence leads.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


What about the theory that Neanderthals inter-bred with humans and we blended into one species?

Or perhaps they lacked an immunity to a disease that we had already survived.

You see we've only got the bones of Neanderthal, its not a living breathing creature we can study the physiology of.

The lack of an answer just makes it more interesting anyway but one thing is for certain, the lack of an answer for what happened to Neanderthal does nothing to shine doubt on the mountains of evidence we have that says man evolved.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by novastrike81

 

it could have been a different mammal for all we know. It's just a best guess with no evidence; just similarities.

Are you being willfully ignorant? We know its apes. The physical, behavioral and genetic similarities are so uncanny that no other conclusion comes close. The fossil record has also born out that fact. We came from apes and the similarities ARE THE EVIDENCE.

You see we've learned enough about biology to understand that traits are passed down from generation through generation and we also learned that mutations to the genetic information can also be passed. These small gradual changes that creationists erroneously refer to as "micro-evolution" over time lead to the macroevolution known as Speciation, the evolution of a new species. Speciation has actually been observed in several cases so we know it happens.

Aside from all the evidence supporting Evolution there is a surprising lack of evidence supporting ANY OTHER CONCLUSION. As such Evolution is the predominant theory. In order for mainstream science to abandon Evolution one would have to dig up a ton of evidence. Thus far nothing in the fossil record, genetic research or any other part of biology science points to a different conclusion, all the evidence points toward evolution. Is that to say there aren't errors in modern Evolution theory, of course not. Is that to say there aren't still things Evolutionists can't explain just yet, again no.

But a mystery, an enigma, does not get solved by slapping a "God did it" label on. The only way to figure it out is to keep studying it and looking where the evidence leads.

You evolutionists need to get on the same page. Either we came from apes or we share a common ancestor. You guys want to have your cake and eat it too. One of you will say we didn't come from apes and you say we did. Clearly you guys don't know your own theory.

Also the mountain of evidence that proves evolution, the many forms of evolution, to be false. One form of evolution is right, the rest are false. We do gradually change over time but we don't change into another species. The evidence isn't mainstream because of scientists that won't publish the information.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81


We didn't just come from apes, WE ARE APES. We are related to LIVING APES, like Chimps, Gorillas, Orangutans and the like, they are connected to us by a common ancestor which was ALSO an ape. Get it? Apes have been around for far longer than humans, chimps, gorillas, those apes that are alive today are the evolutionary descendants of apes and they are still apes by definition.

Anyone claiming that we came from a species of apes who are still living today, like the OP of this thread, is wrong.

Also, way to completely ignore everything I said to attack a perceived inconsistency that is actually due to your own ignorance about Evolution.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by novastrike81

 

We didn't just come from apes, WE ARE APES. We are related to LIVING APES, like Chimps, Gorillas, Orangutans and the like, they are connected to us by a common ancestor which was ALSO an ape. Get it? Apes have been around for far longer than humans, chimps, gorillas, those apes that are alive today are the evolutionary descendants of apes and they are still apes by definition.

Anyone claiming that we came from a species of apes who are still living today, like the OP of this thread, is wrong.

Also, way to completely ignore everything I said to attack a perceived inconsistency that is actually due to your own ignorance about Evolution.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

We are classified as different species that are similar, not the evolution of one species to a new and improved being. If we were, why are there still gorillas, apes, chimpanzees and orangutans? If we had evolved from them, why didn't the rest of them evolve over time? Surely they would have advanced in intelligence and improvement of communities as we have. Oh right, we evolved from a common ancestor that we can't find anywhere.
I don't think you understand how big of a difference the 4% in our genes is.

YOU are the only one to say we evolved from apes. Everyone else says we didn't evolve from apes but share a common ancestor. So either you're God or you're flat out wrong.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


they are just that, theories and speculation. no evidence backing it up except biased beliefs. it works like this "well, i believe evolution is true, i also believe in neanderthals living alongside humans, and humans surpassing them, so how did that happen? maybe a virus wiped out neanderthals, or MAYBE we are the product of human/neanderthal offspring, the two became one and we are it"

also on the brain, you have only the shape of the skull, and assume it is like ours, this is a logical fallacy. we have no idea the structure, but they have a larger space for brains by 10% that could be quite a difference.

point being, there isn't tangible evidence to support that theory.


i find that the theory of evolution has held many things to be true, when infact, it was false. one day they're claiming you can't debate the solid scientific evidence, the next they are saying "we learn more and more about our world and where we come from every day!" as a theory is destroyed.

"It is, in fact, a common fantasy, promulgated mostly by the scientific profession itself, that in the search for objective truth, data dictate conclusions." "Data are just as often molded to fit preferred conclusions." Roger Lewin, pro-evolutionist ([14], p.68)

"We Paleontologists have said that the history of life supports (the story of gradual adaptive change), all the while really knowing that it does not." Miles Eldredge, pro-evolution ([11], p.59)

"The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that evolution is based on faith alone." T.L. Moor, pro-evolution ([22], p.22)

it seems that greater scientific minds than yours, and evolutionists at that, say there is no evidence besides their bias for the evolutionary model.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Bob Sholtz]

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Right, speculation is the best we can do until the evidence supports a conclusion. Right now they don't have enough evidence to figure out how and why the Neanderthals died and humans survived.

The difference is that for science the hypothetical answer is the first step and the evidence is what decides. For the creationist the hypothetical "God did it" is the end of their argument, well how scientific is that

reply to post by novastrike81


Your willful ignorance is appalling so this is the last time I will set this point straight for you.

I explained it very easily in very simple terms and you still pretend not to understand it.

We share a COMMON ANCESTOR, meaning that that one ancestor lead to multiple branches and multiple species of apes. Some of those species led to us humans, others branched off even further becoming the modern apes that are still alive today. We are not descendants of any apes who are alive today, merely evolutionary cousins.

YOU are the only one to say we evolved from apes.

And YOU did not pay attention. The ancestor that Modern living ape species evolved from WAS AN APE. So yes we did evolve from apes but NOT FROM LIVING APES THAT STILL SURVIVE TODAY. Not only did we evolve from apes but we are still apes today. Evolution does not permit for things to just randomly evolve into something fundamentally different, even birds still have the tell tale signs of having evolved from dinosaurs and that's millions of years of evolution later.

The distinction is in the word living apes. We did not evolve from chimps, gorillas or any ape species that is alive today. The ancestor that we all share in common with those living apes WAS by definition an ape.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Your willful ignorance is appalling so this is the last time I will set this point straight for you.

I explained it very easily in very simple terms and you still pretend not to understand it.

We share a COMMON ANCESTOR, meaning that that one ancestor lead to multiple branches and multiple species of apes. Some of those species led to us humans, others branched off even further becoming the modern apes that are still alive today. We are not descendants of any apes who are alive today, merely evolutionary cousins.

YOU are the only one to say we evolved from apes.

And YOU did not pay attention. The ancestor that Modern living ape species evolved from WAS AN APE. So yes we did evolve from apes but NOT FROM LIVING APES THAT STILL SURVIVE TODAY. Not only did we evolve from apes but we are still apes today. Evolution does not permit for things to just randomly evolve into something fundamentally different, even birds still have the tell tale signs of having evolved from dinosaurs and that's millions of years of evolution later.

The distinction is in the word living apes. We did not evolve from chimps, gorillas or any ape species that is alive today. The ancestor that we all share in common with those living apes WAS by definition an ape.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

You still can't provide proof that it was an ape, you just say we share similarities. Show me the original common ancestor and I'll believe you. Oh wait, you can't it's just speculation. You'll never find it because it doesn't exist today so you will NEVER prove the theory true. Stop wasting your time proving a faulty theory.

The only things I agree with you in regards to evolution are: we evolve in a means to which help us adapt to our surroundings and some changes are noticable. We are in biological terms primates and I'm not going to dispute that. The only thing I disagree with is that we evolved from a different species.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by mattguy404


* There is no Satan

* There is no God (that we can currently tangibly measure)

Wind is not seen yet you can feel it.

And why do you put a measure upon God only for surly if there is a measure for God then Satan must be measurable.

Your error in measuring Spirits is that they are not measured by our weights and measures on this physical earth.

But that said if evolution is so real why are people evil that is not an attribute of animals to do evil upon others they kill for survival and that alone.

And I am not counting domesticated animals as they pick up attributes from there handlers

And I mean every body is evil and knowingly does wrongs to somebody every day of there lives weather large or small.

topdocumentaryfilms.com...

In case this hasn't been added:

Clever Monkeys! documentary

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


with evolution, it seems those hypotheticals are more often than not turned into fact, then later shown to be untrue.

as for creationists? there are logical arguments for god, and infinitely more empiracle evidence for jesus being who he claims to be than evolution has for any of its claims.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

Neanderthal was in my opinion a person who lived for more than a two hundred years even close to four hundred at times.

Based upon the Bible of course.

If you are open to read other information to see what is said as to be educated as to what you are disputing then the book Jack Cuozzo wrote is a good read

en.wikipedia.org...

In a basic nut shell he is a forensic dentist and his study of the human skull came to the conclusion that the human head continues to grow until we die.

The Brow ridges become more prominet and the base of the skull more elongated over the years.


He also determined that we are now maturing sooner that even 200 years ago one the the main reasons that many have had to have their wisdom teeth removed.

You see if we were to mature later when our heads would be larger our mouths would be able to hold the extra teeth with no problems.

But hey I know we did not come from ape just a common ancestor like the banana or sand flea.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by ACTS 2:38]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


birds from dinosaurs has been debunked already. please do your research. yet another instance of "you can't argue with the evidence" one day, and the next "we're still discovering new things every day!"

a very pro-evolution source.

www.sciencedaily.com...

“Theropod dinosaurs had a moving femur and therefore could not have had a lung that worked like that in birds. Their abdominal air sac, if they had one, would have collapsed. That undercuts a critical piece of supporting evidence for the dinosaur-bird link.”

Ruben also states that the way those who maintain that dinosaurs evolved into birds ignore the appearance of birds in the fossil record prior to dinosaurs represents a “serious problem” that has been deliberately ignored.

us2.harunyahya.com...:__WE_ADMIT_IT..._THE_STORY_OF_BIRD_EVOLUTION_IS_A_LIE!_

lawlerlution more like it.

reply to post by ACTS 2:38


i have no problem believing they could live that long, but calling them something besides human, and claiming we came from them defeats the purpose of being created in his image.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


We can compare the structure of the skull to that of modern humans and living primates. Not only do researchers look at the external shape of the skull, but also the interior. If you look at any mammal the structure of the brain is essentially the same. While certain structures may be bigger or smaller, the relative position of those structures remain the same. In every mammal where a prefrontal cortex is present it is the most anterior part of the brain. Furthermore, the skull's shape is dependent on the size and shape of the brain. Therefore, if an animal's skull is not as pronounced in the front, it means the front part of the brain is not as developed as other parts of the brain. Ergo, since the Neanderthal skull was flattened in the front it would indicate that the area directly behind the skull (the prefrontal cortex) was not as developed as humans whose skull is more vertically pronounced.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

as for creationists? there are logical arguments for god, and infinitely more empiracle evidence for jesus being who he claims to be than evolution has for any of its claims.

There's barely even evidence enough for scholars to make the claim Jesus even existed and there is no evidence whatsoever for him being an actual divine being.

Evolution has been directly observed, as I stated in my above post we have actually observed speciation. If direct scientific observation is not enough what about the transistional fossils in the fossil record? It has further been supported by behavioral and genetic evidence in that animals who have common ancestry behave in much the same ways. For instance chimps wage war against rival bands and even fashion crude spears. If behavior weren't enough there is the genetic and fossil evidence to back it up. All the evidence points toward evolution.

There is no evidence whatsoever for magical creation as the Bible (and many other ancient texts) depicts and magical creation is hardly an answer for how everything got the way it was. Religion answers none of the questions that are paramount to understanding how life got this way.

All the evidence points to evolution, if there is a God than evolution was his means of developing life, not magic and crafting people out of ribs.

Don't just take my word for it, research it yourself but do so without using religiously biased sources.



[edit on 29-4-2010 by Titen-Sxull]