Steven M. Greer releases UFO photographs!

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Maybe if enough people ask to see some footage, they will provide some.... that is the best I can do here, since I am only one completely obscure person in the grand scheme of things.

That paragraph is dangerously close to reading like a recruitment spiel for the Cult.

NO, I am only encouraging people to double-check the information I'm providing and take their concerns/demands right to CSETI. Instead of trashing them or making demands of them behind their back on a forum they don't even read. Understand?

Also, as I keep trying to point out, the door is incredibly, completely wide open for someone from ATS to attend a training and capture some photos/video of their own to share with the forum.....

Again, that reads dangerously close to being another recruitment spiel for Cult Greer. Perhaps, a weak attempt at viral marketing to encourage more Kool-Aid drinkers.

NO, and back off with your "recruitment" and "viral marketing" accusations immediately!

I'll say it again, I don't care about getting many people to sign up; that's Greer's and CSETI's problem.

I just think it would be great if ONE person, just ONE, in the spirit of diplomacy and seeking the Truth/denying Ignorance, would volunteer to go and check them out, see firsthand if there is any validity to their claims of face-to-face Contact (which would be the biggest story EVER).

Where's the Fed-Ex?

See, how many of you "Where's the Fed-Ex?!" guys have actually asked TDP or CSETI about it?

Does it really make sense to demand that people like C3 or myself produce it, when quite obviously we don't have access to it?

Go knock on Greer's door and ask him to show it to you, maybe you'll get to see it that way!

Any rational and objective person can clearly see that cult greer's claims are laughable. Trying to pass off pictures of moths as "energy anchor beings" and his claims of 20 some odd assassination attempts is ludicrous. Soldiers laying down their weapons and playing guitars. Please. And where is the Fed-Ex? Another out right lie. Cult greers claims rival that of Billy Meier's garbage can lid UFO. Cult greer has been exposed as a charlatan and a fraud time and again, only to be ignored by his blind faithful.

The only logical explanation for cult greers supporters to keep these threads on the front page is viral marketing. The same nonsense is rehashed post after post.

The motivation has to be financial. Viral marketing. I'd also venture a guess that cult greer has managed to extract much more than 800 hundred dollars from many gullible and vulnerable people. Con artists seek out weak minded individuals who are wealthy and affluent and milk them for all they can.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I just think it would be great if ONE person, just ONE, in the spirit of diplomacy and seeking the Truth/denying Ignorance, would volunteer to go and check them out, see firsthand if there is any validity to their claims of face-to-face Contact (which would be the biggest story EVER).

The truth has been sought and ignorance has been denied - Cult Greer is a hoax.

Some people, for whatever reason, choose to deny the truth and embrace ignorance by showing dogmatic worship of all things Cult Greer.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
IIRC, the title of their pics page was something like "Interesting images from 2006 trainings".

That may well have been the title page heading but the deceit came about in the actual descriptions of each image.

Greer's 'big rod' is described as follows:

"Light Anchor" Comes Into Group in front of Dr Greer - captured on Super Night Shot mode on Sony Digital Camcorder - Dr Greer senses it coming.

In the CSETI video that is online the same photograph is described by the narrator as an "Energy Communication Anchor".


The clear photo of the moth is described thus:

"Loved One" Image taken by training participant soon after returning from the last evening of field work. Looking up from outside of her tent at a local camp ground, at a light being (we call "Loved One") up near the top of the tree

The dust mote on Greer's chest is described as:

Orb on Dr Greer's chest taken the day after the training ended, at a local coffee shop in town.

And the blue 'light' is described:

Photograph of anomalous daytime lights in Joshua Tree National Park during our April 14-21, 2001 CSETI training near Desert Hot Springs, California.

A CSETI rep here on ATS claimed this photo showed a "quantum/Energy state craft" but ignored the zoomed detail that showed a half-hidden person close to the 'light' - see page 2 of this thread

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I don't think they were intended to be final proof of their Contact activities at all, they were just "interesting images".
It's you that keeps framing them as if they were specifically aimed at people like us and ATS, intended as proof of their vectoring claims.

Of course they were intended as 'proof' of their bogus abilities to contact extraterrestrials. What other purpose did they serve? And if the context in which they were displayed to the public wasn't fraudulent, why were they quickly hidden when their true nature was exposed?

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I highly doubt those pictures were posted for our benefit or intended to satiate our demand for proof....

Well, you may not have noticed, but at the start of this thread the OP posted a link to the images without comment. Further, he/she made zero contribution to the discussion/debate that followed.

Type the OP's name into Google followed by 'Greer' and you will see that it wasn't only ATS that was provided with the link to CSETI at that time. In fact, you will tire of counting the number other forums which nbgoku targetted.

Are we looking at hard-working innocent enthusiam or a viral marketing campaign? Only nbgoku, can answer that.

The problem for CSETI is that having the images posted here backfired on them, big time!

Originally posted by duke44
Any rational and objective person can clearly see that cult greer's claims are laughable. Trying to pass off pictures of moths as "energy anchor beings" and his claims of 20 some odd assassination attempts is ludicrous. Soldiers laying down their weapons and playing guitars. Please. And where is the Fed-Ex? Another out right lie. Cult greers claims rival that of Billy Meier's garbage can lid UFO. Cult greer has been exposed as a charlatan and a fraud time and again, only to be ignored by his blind faithful.

But that's just it, he has NOT been "exposed" as a fraud.

Last time I checked, CSETI is still going strong, has been for over 15 years, and TDP is still up and running. Greer has never been "exposed" and his organizations shut down.

Nor can I find a single shred of evidence of any CSETI trainees who feel defrauded by Mr. Greer. Don't you think there would be a whole bunch of angry trainees loudly accusing him of fraud and trying to sue him, if he were merely leading people out to the desert to look at moths and insects?

Just because he is heavily ridiculed and condemned on sites like ATS, does NOT mean he has been "debunked" or "exposed" as a fraud. That's merely the egocentrism of ATS members at work. After a while people start getting the attitude that the conclusions reached on this site MUST be the truth - even though most of the members limit their research to the Internet only! "Well Greer is listed at ufowatchdog.com so he's a fraud.... Greer was in a legal battle with Bootsie Galbraith so he must be a fraud...."

As far as I can tell, not a single person from here has actually been out to a training to see firsthand what goes on - except for tock/Richard, who's now banned. So the simple fact is, none of us knows for sure. People sit back and ridicule his claims and the pictures from a few months ago - but that is not the same as seeking the truth!

The only logical explanation for cult greers supporters to keep these threads on the front page is viral marketing. The same nonsense is rehashed post after post.

The motivation has to be financial. Viral marketing. I'd also venture a guess that cult greer has managed to extract much more than 800 hundred dollars from many gullible and vulnerable people. Con artists seek out weak minded individuals who are wealthy and affluent and milk them for all they can.

NO, and when any such accusations are made against me I will complain to the staff.

Has it occured to you that Greer's supporters defend him simply because they feel he has accomplished a lot and contributed a lot of solid evidence and information, and they hate to see him constantly ridiculed and condemned like this?

As far as I can tell, none of you who ridicule him have actually talked to CSETI about these issues. None of you have met the man, none of you have been out to a training. No one has conducted a proper investigation of his claims, no one has gone out to see if CSETI teams really do have close encounters with ETs.

It's much easier to just sit back and pass judgment.....

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I just think it would be great if ONE person, just ONE, in the spirit of diplomacy and seeking the Truth/denying Ignorance, would volunteer to go and check them out, see firsthand if there is any validity to their claims of face-to-face Contact (which would be the biggest story EVER).

The truth has been sought and ignorance has been denied - Cult Greer is a hoax.

NO, you have NOT sought the truth, nor has anyone from here. Except tock/Richard, who got crucified by ATS members as soon as he tried to stand up for Greer.

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I don't think they were intended to be final proof of their Contact activities at all, they were just "interesting images".
It's you that keeps framing them as if they were specifically aimed at people like us and ATS, intended as proof of their vectoring claims.

Of course they were intended as 'proof' of their bogus abilities to contact extraterrestrials. What other purpose did they serve? And if the context in which they were displayed to the public wasn't fraudulent, why were they quickly hidden when their true nature was exposed?

Well, my impressions, from actually having communicated with the CSETI coordinator, are a) they are actually swamped with inquiries and work, because you're lucky to get a terse one-sentence reply from her in most cases, and b) they are well aware that they are ridiculed and condemned constantly on sites like this one, and they don't care about their critics either way.

So again, I don't think those pictures were intended to impress us here at ATS or "$generate leads$" at all. I think someone asked her to post some pictures, she complied, and then when it was pointed out to her that a lot of people were ridiculing them, she took them down again.

I don't think she really cares about ATS or the opinions of the members here, ask her yourself if you don't want to believe me.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
I highly doubt those pictures were posted for our benefit or intended to satiate our demand for proof....

Well, you may not have noticed, but at the start of this thread the OP posted a link to the images without comment. Further, he/she made zero contribution to the discussion/debate that followed.

Type the OP's name into Google followed by 'Greer' and you will see that it wasn't only ATS that was provided with the link to CSETI at that time. In fact, you will tire of counting the number other forums which nbgoku targetted.

Are we looking at hard-working innocent enthusiam or a viral marketing campaign? Only nbgoku, can answer that.

Well if you're suggesting that "nbgoku" was actually paid by CSETI to go around to internet sites and link to the pictures.... I just find that laughable! A person being paid to link to pictures of moths/light beings, "rods", orbs and strange lights? Come on!

Again.... if you actually bother to talk to the CSETI coordinator about these things, you will find pretty quickly that she doesn't really care about sites like ATS. It isn't about impressing us AT ALL, that's just the egocentrism of ATS members at work.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by c3hamby
An image that resembles a clear, lighted silhouette of a moth(no bluriness please)

c3hamby, why should Torsion take a clear picture of a moth, without bluriness, when Cult Greer's moth was blurred?

I really don't understand what you are asking? Cult Greer showed a moth that was blurred, as obviously, the photographer was incompetent.

I'm sure that Torsion, being the intelligent and capable person that he is, could go out and take a picture of a moth that isn't blurred and also one that is blurred.

The pictures were moths and you want them so desperately to be something that they're not.




Torsion, what flavours does Kool-Aid come in? I think that I might buy shares in the company that makes it. They'll never go out of business at this rate.

You would not be able to see the legs of a moth on a blurry picture. What I am asking is not difficult to do. In fact I went out this weekend and I will post the bug pictures I took this week myself.

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by c3hamby
Ok Torsion, but I'm going to ask you to do the same thing. I'm asking you to go out at night, and take pictures and I'm asking you to reproduce similar pictures to what Dr Greer has published.

I'm looking for:

An image that resembles a clear, lighted silhouette of a moth(no bluriness please)

Clear pictures of the same spiralling rod bugs that you say are everywhere.

Not any of that speck stuff either.

What's the point in me doing it again? I know they are insects as other rational thinkers do. It's only you, Et, and 'MrdD' who need educating as to the true nature of these things - and as I've said, self-education is best. As you and your chums clearly won't listen to anyone other than Greer there's little point in me making further effort to provide you with more evidence. None of you want to know the truth when it proves that Greer is a dishonest charlatan.

If I did post a picture I'd taken myself you would argue that it might be very similar to Greer's 'anchor' but it is not identical so therefore it's an insect while Greer's remains an 'alien anchor'- exactly like your chum Tock did when I presented him with an 'orb' that resembled the dust mote in front of Greer's T shirt (remember, the one that CSETI tried to pass off as paranormal).

Still waiting for ET's critical analysis that suggests this thing is an alien energy communication anchor and not an insect! In fact, as you have jumped in to respond for ET, C3Hamb, why don't you explain why it is an alien anchor and not an insect?

You haven't explained that it is an insect.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Originally posted by intrepid
MrdDstrbr, I'm starting to get the distinct feeling that your participation here is merely as a billboard for CSETI.

intrepid,

as stated, one of my purposes here is simply to encourage a little diplomacy and actually talk to CSETI about these issues. while there are people like torsion in his post above, blasting away, calling Mr. Greer a charlatan, deciever, and on and on.

It's called "Denying Ignorance".

Torsion and company have stated from the beginning that they feel it is wrong and deceitful to have participants sign a non disclosure agreement when disclosure is what Greer is trying to do.

Someone has finally done the smart thing and clarified that.

What is wrong with contacting Greer and finding out if that's a true statement? Does that go against ATS board policies?



[edit on 18-6-2007 by c3hamby]

Originally posted by duke44
Cult greer has been exposed as a charlatan and a fraud time and again, only to be ignored by his blind faithful.

When has someone exposed Greer as a cult and a fraud? I must have missed this.

If someone can show me some real proof that these things are true, I'll be happy to reconsider my opinons, rather than just some drone going on and on again as you have just done.

I'd be looking for, but not limiting evidence to:

1. A reformed Greer cult member.
2. A dissatisifed CSETI event attendee.
3. A Greer spiritual teaching.

Originally posted by c3hamby

Originally posted by torsion

Still waiting for ET's critical analysis that suggests this thing is an alien energy communication anchor and not an insect! In fact, as you have jumped in to respond for ET, C3Hamb, why don't you explain why it is an alien anchor and not an insect?

You haven't explained that it is an insect.

You know, since CSETI has admitted that they have more footage and evidence in their possession, I really think we should concentrate our efforts on convincing them to post some of it, rather than continuing to argue about the moths and rods pics, which is getting us nowhere fast.....

If cseti is well aware of being ridiculed on sites "like this", why did they take the photos off ?

The press conference took place in 2001, where is at least the slightest bit of evidence ? Just ONE undisputable piece of paper/tape/photo/video/whatever ?

2003 Greer had a machine, not much larger as his hand, that produced "zero point" energy - again, where ? Attacking the goverment for not releasing their advanced alien technology and then keeping the same revolutinary technology for himself ? 1) wtf ? 2) why ?

He had not days, weeks or months to come up with anything remotely believable - he had YEARS, more then a decade now.

It's the same (successful) method on which cults or religions work.
1. Invent a story
2. Find gullible people and just keep the "evidence" one second away
3. PROFIT !!

I just wonder, why i'm too stupid/lazy to do the same; seems to be pretty easy

Phil

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


You know, since CSETI has admitted that they have more footage and evidence in their possession, I really think we should concentrate our efforts on convincing them to post some of it, rather than continuing to argue about the moths and rods pics, which is getting us nowhere fast.....

Seems like you have your mission then. Go and try to convince them.

It doesn't look like there is much interest from others so it's up to you.

Originally posted by c3hamby
You haven't explained that it is an insect.

Of course I have, on numerous occasions. The corkscrew effect is created when an insect passes close to the camera. The illusion is particularly noted when the video is freeze-framed.

There I've explained it yet again! Go back and look at the links that show other examples.


Now, c3hamby, you explain why it is an 'energy communication anchor'. And please, "because Dr Greer said it is" is not an acceptable response!

Looking forward to your bug pics, too!

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by c3hamby
You haven't explained that it is an insect.

Of course I have, on numerous occasions. The corkscrew effect is created when an insect passes close to the camera. The illusion is particularly noted when the video is freeze-framed.

There I've explained it yet again! Go back and look at the links that show other examples.


Now, c3hamby, you explain why it is an 'energy communication anchor'. And please, "because Dr Greer said it is" is not an acceptable response!

Looking forward to your bug pics, too!

Thanks. Now, would you be so good to post the link to the picture so I may view it?

To respond to your post, I never heard, or don't recall Dr Greer claiming it was an energy comm anchor, unless it was from the posts that someone was posting on behalf of Debbie.

I don't know what those things are. I know I've never seen a energy com anchor. I've never seen the effect that you are describing, so I guess I will give you that as one of the possibilities. I attempted to reproduce the effect myself, but perhaps it takes a 35 mm camera to do it? I have an older digital camera that I used.

On the other hand, I've never seen the photographic effect that you are talking about. I've never seen a bug that looks like a cork screw. I've never seen a picture of a moth that was lit up like the one in Dr Greer's picture. I have seen that guy's website that has to do with rods, and he is also claiming that those are not bugs.

I did take pictures of light in front of a 2 million candle powered light, and in the pictures I post, you don't see the detail of the moth in Greer's picture. I'm not going to be posting these pictures as being representative of anything more than bugs.

I don't know what kind of camera was used, you seem to be more informed of this kind of thing that I am.

[edit on 18-6-2007 by c3hamby]

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry

The press conference took place in 2001, where is at least the slightest bit of evidence ? Just ONE undisputable piece of paper/tape/photo/video/whatever ?

Maybe they'll provide us some, if we keep asking them nicely.....

2003 Greer had a machine, not much larger as his hand, that produced "zero point" energy - again, where ? Attacking the goverment for not releasing their advanced alien technology and then keeping the same revolutinary technology for himself ? 1) wtf ? 2) why ?

That's not correct. He never claimed to possess the device himself, he said they met with an inventor who showed it to them. Allegedly the inventor was very seriously threatened and went into hiding.

If you do some research, this same sort of thing has happened to a long list of New Energy inventors....

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr


You know, since CSETI has admitted that they have more footage and evidence in their possession, I really think we should concentrate our efforts on convincing them to post some of it, rather than continuing to argue about the moths and rods pics, which is getting us nowhere fast.....

Seems like you have your mission then. Go and try to convince them.

It doesn't look like there is much interest from others so it's up to you.

That's just great, thanks everybody!

You know, I'd start lining up volunteers and cash to get a rep with a camera out on an actual training, but I have a sinking feeling I could get banned if I did that....

So I'm left shouting into the void for help.... lovely.

Originally posted by c3hamby
Thanks. Now, would you be so good to post the link to the picture so I may view it?

Greer and his accolytes hid it in shame, as you well know. But if you look at the first page of this thread you will see it clear as day - Greer's Big Rod - an insect flying by his Sony camcorder set to Super Night Vision.

A 35mm camera won't reproduce the same effect, nor will a digital still camera as far as I'm aware. Video certainly works. To get the true corkscrew effect the insect needs to be close to the lens - the wings are what cause the helix pattern. If they are too far away the wings aren't discernable and you will just get a pencil-like rod effect - that's what I have got on my Sony camcorder.

You don't have to film it yourself - recording off tv and pausing frames also works. Wait for a nature program that has lots of flying insects and give it a try.

[edit on 18-6-2007 by torsion]

Maybe they'll provide us some, if we keep asking them nicely.....

SIX years without the slightest bit of proof and we should ask nicely ?! I thought greer is a nice man with the intent to disclose ?

That's not correct. He never claimed to possess the device himself, he said they met with an inventor who showed it to them. Allegedly the inventor was very seriously threatened and went into hiding.

Sure, no need to research, got the interview right here But isn't that akin to the invisible elf in the garden ? Again, without the slightest bit of proof, it's just a story and i heard better. But i agree that Big Oil is indeed pretty close to being evil.


Just to sound not too offensive regarding greer, i actually think sending an ATS person to one of the meetings is a good idea, but i also think, they should do it for free in this case. Would be the best marketing for them, if greer could proof anything, don't you agree ?


[edit on 18-6-2007 by Phil J. Fry]