Vatican Official Declares Extraterrestrial Contact Is Real

Originally posted by Ram

You can ask yourself now.
Why is Astology demonic in the name of the church?
Bitches burnes on the stake of fire. Why?

I think you mean "witches". and the church hasn't done that in a very long time, and it was the protestant church that burned witches, not the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by sanctum
Lets discuss the subject minus the sarcasm and personal snipes.

Thank you.

Nice of you to pipe up now after i have said something..
I get personally attacked most of the way through the thread and you do nothing...
Again... cheers for your timely intervention.
The only thing i deplore is ignorance..
The sarcasm has come in to effect because ignorant people dont read or understand properly.

Ive put massive work and research in to this thread..
Even the smart hardened Skeptics have agreed.
It is only the low IQ argumentative no brainers that are squabbling.
Their arguments would be highly appreciated and taken on board and argued against if they were worth while.
But writing a 100 lines based on something that somebody didnt say is a waste of my time...



[edit on 24-4-2007 by Shadoww]

Ok for several pages too many in fact Shadoww has contended that Corrado Balducci, is a member of the vatican staff in good standing no less (cough)

Now early on shadow alleged he made phone calls to confirm this fact and later on came back stating he was unable to do so.

Well If he is in fact a member of the vatican staff in good standing as shadow claims why is he not listed in Vaticans directory???


Vatican Website

Insert his last name and you will get zilch, zip, nadda which can only mean one thing he is not on their staff at this time.

They were even nice enough to breask their search down by offices

Argentinian father Josè Gabriel Funes, from August 19, 2006
new director of Vatican Astronomical Observatory (Specola Vaticana),
in an interview with the ANSA itlalian journalist Franca Giansoldati.
Interview translated in english by Bruno Moretti IK2WQA
Read original integral interview in italian

father Josè Gabriel Funes:
I believe that life can be developed in other planetary systems.
We think that the universe is composed from billions of galaxies and that every galaxy counts billions of stats. It is possible therefore that there are stars similar to our Sun and planets similar to our Earth. There is evidence for the existence of alien forms of life.If there are extraterrestrial, for catholic theology it would not be a problem, also the ET are creatures of God. If ET existed, ET would be our brother.
If Saint Francis (Saint Francesco of Assisi) talked to "brother wolf", we am not able not to talk to brother ET.
Franca Giansoldati: Is the universe to evangelize?
father Josè Gabriel Funes: In a certain sense yes, the job seems not to miss.

Another Jesuit priest becomes chief astronomer and speaks out on E.T.s

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Shadoww]

I have seen a UFO in 1969 and my Dad and Brother were there seeing the same thing. They exist, they are real.

If they were here to take over, it would be a done deal. They are in part, responsible for us being here and they do not want to see us destroy our selves.

We are going into an area of the Galaxy where our behaviour will not be tolerated, much like disciplining a child. We are like toddelers and we are about to grow up a bit.

It doesn't matter if you chose not to believe ET exists. You, much like a baby, will be cared for and brought to maturity soon enough.

The only reason people are negative, wanting more proof, then refusing to accept or trust anyone, is because we are not able to have any confidence in what anyone says. We have screwed ourselves over so many times, that we reject anything we can't see, touch, smell and inspect in person.

It wasn't till I had a stroke in 05, suffering a blood clot in my left brain, which caused me to use the right side of my brain, that my mind was willing to accept the fact ET's exist and are here to help us.

Two years ago, I was a skeptic. Now I am doing what I can for disclosure. If you want to deny their existence, you have the right to remain in your shelter.

This is a Universal law, that no being will be forced to do anything that they do not want to do.

This is the reason why ET is letting us figure it out on our own.

Are you afraid of dieing?

I have tasted death, and it is more like freedom than non existence.

People who have died, been killed and suffered in the past have done so at our own hands. Once fear of death looses its grip on you, you are set free. Dieing is not the end of your conciousness, it only sets you free from slavery.

What will come to an end is slavery. Make no mistake, we are all slaves to the present economy and wealth.

Ok, I wasn't going to keep responding to this thread, but it's just to irresistable.

Shadoww...Shots and others (including myself) are just asking you some very basic questions that should be answered to prove your point. No one on this thread has been disrespectful except for yourself. Your sarcasm does not come out of anger for all us "low IQ Argumentative no-brainers", but out of frustration from not being able to offer one shread of verifiable proof that Balducci is speaking on behalf of the Vatican. If you are getting frustrated with us for questioning you...well...welcome to reality. In order to convince people of your opinion in the real world people will require PROOF in the form of documentation from reliable sources. Just go to any college in the nation and try to use the sources you have in a research paper and see how far it will get you.

Shots provided a link for you to the Vatican website, and Balducci is not listed on it. I, myself, provided a link to the same website in Italian and all I could find on Balducci was a small excerpt from 1954 mentioning his name, and nothing more.

So we have quagmire here of sorts...You have offered no RELIABLE proof Balducci speaks on behalf of the Vatican. We have questioned you repeatedly to come up with evidence for your Hypothesis, and you cannot.

Now, lets all revert to the scientific method steps we all learned in Grade School. First, here are the steps:

1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments

Link to Scientific Method

Now, lets apply it to this thread...

1. Shadoww, you have made the observation that Balducci works for the Vatican.

2. You have formulated a Hypothesis that he speaks from the mouth of the Vatican based on your observation.

3. You have taken the Hypothesis, and have done little else with this step in gaining support to make a theory.

4. Your test results are not good here. You have offered little verifiable proof of your Hypothesis in its formulation into a theory. The scientific method is used to negate the results of a biased observer (in this case you, Shadoww). Your Hypothesis does not hold up to scrutiny when you are asked some very basic questions. Others have found gaps in your Hypothesis that require further explanation, and upon the observations of others your Hypothesis does not hold up.

So, if you believe in things like "science" and "scrutiny" then you would clearly see that your Hypothesis about Balducci does not add up. Anyone else agree with this?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Jazzerman]

Originally posted by Stormrider
I think you mean "witches".

and the church hasn't done that in a very long time, and it was the protestant church that burned witches, not the Catholic Church.

your right..
im so wrong.. on both the bitch, witch, and the protestant.

Jesuit astronomers, experts both in Church teachings and in natural philosophy, were at first skeptical and hostile to the new ideas. Within a year or two, however, availability of good telescopes enabled them to repeat the new observations. In 1611 Galileo visited the Collegium Romanum in Rome, where the Jesuit astronomers by that time had repeated his observations and treated him with respect.

it's just the whole idea - im interrested in - Im not into those details - sorry.

seems like jesuit astronomers are pretty open to things though.
plz continue - im off.

Shadoww: you seem to be taking this personally for some reason.
Up to you to nominate 'why'. My posts are not addressed to you. You do not hold a monopoly on Balducci or aliens/ufos.

Balducci initially made his claims several years ago as many would be aware.

No, I'm not 'American'. Why would it matter if I were?

If you wish to place Balducci on a pedestal it's your prerogative. Ex-US-President J. Carter claimed to have witnessed a ufo. I deem Carter to possess credibility at least equal to that of Balducci.

Many people claim to have experience of both 'aliens' and 'ufos' and the vast majority of these would --- under other circumstances -- be deemed credible witnesses.

I don't rate the Vatican as the final, authoritative voice with regards to aliens or ufos. I found it interesting when I first read of Balducci's claims, several years ago. The article was at pains to detail his 'Vatican pedigree'. Yet I haven't heard the Pope issue a pronouncement regarding the validity of aliens or ufos.

I can remember the days when the Vatican insisted 'Limbo' was a very real and necessary dimension. Then it changed its mind.

Can also remember when St.Christopher was touted by the Vatican as a 'real' saint: the patron saint of travellers amongst other things. Then the Vatican changed its mind about that too. And that was OFFICIAL Vatican stance in all instances.

Balducci has for years been claiming that 'aliens/ufos' are real and have always been so.

Balducci has NOT claimed that 'aliens/ufos' are a 'NEW' discovery: a 'recent' addition within theology or the cosmos or the lives of everyday folk.

And there are a myriad 'proofs' (IF they're genuine) that 'aliens/ufos' have been around for a VERY, very long time.

But that doesn't mean 'aliens/ufos' are a positive influence.

For example: if the thousands of reports are true, 'aliens' possess the power to yank folk from their beds without their consent. The aliens subject their victims to a reported variety of procedures, many of them painful and traumatic. Aliens reportedly tell lies: they 'predict' events which never happen which causes the reporters to be considered insane, 'possessed' and to be locked up or medicated, ostracised, ridiculed. Aliens reportedly slay animals after subjecting them to painful and odd procedures.

These 'aliens' would be regarded as deranged psychopaths, were they human.

They show no respect for the rights of humans.

Yet, despite their seemingly superior technology and knowledge, they have not intefered for the benefit of mankind. Clearly, if they possess the capability of entering and departing our dimension with ease, they must also possess the power to intervene when, for example, one group of humans plans to inflict unimaginable carnage upon another group of humans.

The 'aliens' reportedly possess the ability to stop vehicles completely, to 'beam' humans up into ufos. They reportedly have the ability to vastly outmaneuvre human-controlled planes and even to intervene in human space exploration. Yet these same 'aliens' chose NOT to intervene when humans were flying towards another nation in order to drop atomic bombs on it.

The excuses offered for this include: ' Oh, the aliens aren't allowed to interfere. They have to let humans evolve at their own pace'. That's a weak excuse and fails the test of simple decency. It's the same as claiming you were unable to prevent a pedophile from raping and murdering a child because you had to allow the pedophile to evolve at his own pace --- whilst at the same time, you were kidnapping children from their beds in order you could drag them off to insert painful probes and chips and scar them mentally for life.

A sane, reasonable person could not -- no matter how desperate for a hero --- regard the 'aliens' as anything but a negative unknown-factor.

There's a strong possibility the 'aliens' are a paranormal phenomenon in the same way as poltergeists, 'demons' and other unknowns.

For Balducci to claim 'aliens are real' is highly irresponsible. And using his Vatican connections makes it doubly so --- unless Balducci is able and prepared to detail precisely what aliens are -- where they originate -- what their intentions are and how and where they belong in Scripture and when they entered into Roman Catholic belief. Most of all, if Balducci wishes to utilize his Vatican connections in relations to his opinions re: aliens ------------ he needs to detail and demonstrate WHAT 'aliens' relationship to God is and HOW God rates these alleged 'aliens'.

Has Balducci done this ?

Why not? He's had plenty of time since he first flung himself on the world stage with his 'alien' claims.

1 word ... Incredible.
Have you watched Balducci's interview?
What about Consolmagno?
What about Coyne?
I need no more proof..
It isnt my job to prove anything to you.
There is more than enough proof in the thread.
51 flags in several days.
Maybe everyone who flagged it is wrong , Moderators included for giving me applause??
And you are right?
I dont think so..
I have no more to say to you.
As for shots he is on ignore.. so his continuous posting is worthless..
I have said many times.
This thread does not rely on one source, But Balducci is a sound source..
If what is written isnt enough for you i suggest you ring the Vatican yourself like i did..
Watch the interview, where he is asked questions in a specific context taken from the Vaticans point of view..
Notice you didnt mention the Catholics news source i gave you when you were trying to diss my links i gave you lol.. no wonder.
I have nothing to prove..
It is all here, i will continue to investigate the Vatican and other Vatican Padres including Balducci, but i will not be offering any more evidence for his credibility.
There is more than enough.
To be honest it seems you have not read the thread properly and are just being argumentative in an uneducated way...
I see no depth, real argument or point to your posts, so unless you come up with a real argument or actually bother to read the thread you will be joining your mate on ignore..

Originally posted by Jazzerman
So we have quagmire here of sorts...You have offered no RELIABLE proof Balducci speaks on behalf of the Vatican. We have questioned you repeatedly to come up with evidence for your Hypothesis, and you cannot.

Jazzerman I do not think it is a uagmire, what it is is game check and match.

For pages and pages shadoww has argued that the individual was a member of the vatican staff in good standing many many times. Now we have the directory and like you I came up empty when looking for information that confirms he is in fact on thier staff. Most certainly if he was he would be in the phone directory.

He is not , therefore Shadoww is wrong beyond any doubt, hell he even just posted another post (without a link) where he claims someone else was appointed to the postition in 2006. DUH he shot himself in the foot with that post alone.



[edit on 4/24/2007 by shots]

Dock, i thought you said you have read the thread???
Balducci clearly states aliens role in scripture.
He states it is a sin not to believe in other life, that aliens are not Demons and that they have a soul.
Nothing personal, but constantly having to reitterate the same points for people time and time again..
Look at the size of your post, how much of it is relevant to the thread?
what is worthwhile content in it?
If you had read the thread like you said you have there would be no need for the last post, because you would already have the answer.
Also the thread is not about Jimmy Carter, the thread is about the existence of E.Ts and the Vaticans change in direction and doctrine to cope with disclosure.
Therefore Balducci is much more relevant in this thread than Carter.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Shadoww]

Originally posted by Shadoww
As for shots he is on ignore.. so his continuous posting is worthless..

As if you putting me on ignore bothers me in the least. What is the matter aren't you man/boy enough to admit when you have been proven wrong? Sure you may or may not see this but others will. I would just like to point out it is only the weak and meek who put others on ignroe.

Now would someone be nice enough to quote me

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Shadoww
As for shots he is on ignore.. so his continuous posting is worthless..

As if you putting me on ignore bothers me in the least. What is the matter aren't you man/boy enough to admit when you have been proven wrong? Sure you may or may not see this but others will. I would just like to point out it is only the weak and meek who put others on ignroe.

Now would someone be nice enough to quote me

Consider it done.

Always happy to help.

Originally posted by Shadoww
I need no more proof..
It isnt my job to prove anything to you.

I think this really says it all, doesn't it? You just continue to live in your own world of delusion and denial and I will continue to offer my scrutiny to anyone who does not provide this wonderous thing called PROOF.

You put Shots on ignore because he was questioning the validity of your statements! I would never put someone on this forum on ignore just because they disagree with me. You call anyone who disagrees with you "no brained" and "low IQ"!

Again, SCIENTIFIC METHOD. PROOF. RELIABLE SOURCES. Mean anything?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Jazzerman]

Here is a website that is showing the Vatican and the inside...


link
www.denfert.com...#

check the pictures out, guess whos there?
Mgr. Corrado Balducci is one of the world's leading experts on exorcism and demonology. In his hands the book of the ritual of exorcism written in latin.

interesting that Balducci was also instrumental in the disclosure of the third secret of Fatima...


On October 16, 1978, the newspaper L’Osservatore della Domenica ran an article by a Vatican prelate, Msgr. Corrado Balducci, a clerk in the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. He wrote that a text reportedly containing the Third Secret “was reprinted by Neues Europa, which published it at Stuttgart on October 15, 1963.” Msgr. Balducci then went on to quote from the Neues Europa Third Secret at length (see The Whole Truth of Fatima, Vol. III, Brother Michael of the Holy Trinity, pp. 657-659). Why would a Vatican prelate give such great credence to the Neues Europa Third Secret, unless he knew that at least part of this Neues Europa Third Secret was genuine?

We will now reprint a pertinent part of the Neues Europa “Third Secret”, and compare it to Our Lady of the Roses message. The bolded part of the text below are lines that we believe are authentic lines from the REAL Third Secret of Fatima. Bracketed numbers represent how many times similar lines are repeated in Our Lady of the Roses message:

link
www.tldm.org...

More info about Balducci on Fatima
We have as evidence of this the testimony of Msgr. Corrado Balducci, a Vatican insider for more than forty years, who related that when Cardinal Ottaviani was asked whether the Neues Europa account should be published, the Cardinal, who had read the Third Secret – and who had a dry personality and was basically indifferent to most apparitions – exclaimed very emphatically: "Publish 10,000 copies! Publish 20,000 copies! Publish 30,000 copies!"

www.fatima.org...

JOHN PAUL II PERFORMED AN EXORCISM IN THE VATICAN
Demonologist Warns: "If We Do Not Help Them, They Will Turn To Sects"

VATICAN CITY, JAN 29 (ZENIT).- In his book, 'My Six Popes', Cardinal Jacques Martin, former prefect of the papal household, revealed that in 1982 Pope John Paul II performed an exorcism on a woman who seemed possessed. In the book, written in the form of a journal, the Cardinal relates that on April 4, 1982, "Bishop Alberti of Spoleto (in central Italy), arrived for an audience with the Pope, with Francesca F, an 'obsessed' woman, who rolled on the floor screaming."

Cardinal Martin continues the narration: "from outside the papal study we could hear the woman's screams. The Pope began to pray, pronouncing the various exorcisms, but in vain. Yet, when he said to the woman, 'tomorrow I shall offer Mass for you,' Francesca immediately became normal." After the experience, John Paul II "remained very affected by the case, which he described as 'a veritable Biblical scene'." "A year later", Cardinal Martin writes, "the woman, who was perfectly normal, was received in audience with her husband by the Pope and told him she was expecting a baby."

This story comes to light precisely at the time of the publication of the new Catholic ritual for exorcisms. Because of the interest awakened, experts on the subject have been consulted. Father Corrado Balducci, an authority on the matter who defines himself in theology as a demonologist, and who has been much sought after by the media during the last few days, has commented on the enormous commotion the new ritual has triggered in the Italian press. "Although the old ritual, written in 1614, knew nothing about psychiatry or psychoanalysis, it was incredibly prescient. Above all it recommends prudence in judgement on the part of exorcists, because the cases of possession are not only rare but exceptional, very exceptional ..."

Father Balducci maintains that "the devil is always the same. It is men who are inconsistent: insecure, without faith, without morals, deprived of guidance, and without humility to allow themselves to be led by someone who could do so. So lost are some people that they believe themselves possessed and knock on the exorcist's door, when in reality they would do better to go to the doctor..."

But how can you explain the great demand for exorcists by an ever growing number of people? Father Balducci, who has been studying these phenomena for 40 years, believes that "when you live in a climate of total disillusion, without being rooted in the values of faith, without prayer, you latch on to anything and everything, even to the absurd churches of Satan, which adore the devil as the god of Evil. Think of the lunacy. In the theological conception of God, there is no place for even a minimal idea of evil. God is absolute Goodness. This does not mean the devil has decreased his activity. On the contrary, he has multiplied temptations. Moreover, as Saint Augustine said, the more distant we are from God, the more involved we are with the devil."

In this connection, Father Balducci has given some examples. "Let us look at the present and still growing crisis of the prevailing values of civil life: such decadence represents very fertile ground for the devil. The crisis is then followed by pessimism, uneasiness and in this state of fear, which is exacerbated by other causes such as growing violence and the lack of peace, the result is psychic disturbance. When have we ever had such an epidemic of depressions as we witness in our day? In the same way the fear of being victims of demonic disturbances has spread, but it is a big lie."

Regarding the work exorcists do, Father Balducci specified that "today the work of the exorcist is an ecclesial apostolate, a social service which consists in listening to people who think they are the victims of demonic presence. If the Church does not offer them the possibility of going to a priest who is assigned to practice exorcisms, they will turn to sects or wizards."
ZE99012807

link
www.zenit.org...

Originally posted by Shadoww


check the pictures out, guess whos there?
Mgr. Corrado Balducci is one of the world's leading experts on exorcism and demonology. In his hands the book of the ritual of exorcism written in latin.

No one ever doubted he was a member of the staff at one time nor that he was into exorcism .

Your claim was he is on the staff now and that is not true, nor is he head of their astrology dept now as you contended, why is it so hard to admit you made a mistake?

[edit on 4/24/2007 by shots]

Monsignor Corrado Balducci is a high Vatican official, a Catholic theologian with impressive credentials: A member of the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church, a Prelate of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples and the Propagation of the Faith, leading exorcist of the Archdiocese of Rome, a member of the Vatican's Beatification Committee, an expert on Demonology and the author of several books.

www.stpauls.com.au... 22e