Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

"Vestri"...

I would suggest you look into how Peter Jackson shot the "Gandalf/Frodo" scenes in the wagon at the beginning of "Fellowship Of The Ring" (the first movie in the Lord Of The Rings" Trilogy).

It's called "forced perspective" you put that which you want appear small behind and at an angle to that which you wish to appear large.

If you have your camera at the proper angle (simple trigonometry) they will appear to be sitting/standing or moving right next to each other thanks to the 2-D structure of flat images.

Nothing to it really, they pulled it off in "Lord Of The Rings" perfectly and they show EXACTLY how they did it in the "special features DVD that comes with the set.

Springer...

[edit on 5-11-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by vestri
How about you try again, but this time, explain how that person standing there at start of that WCUFO clip is irrelevant, if raised, in the answer you just gave there which you claim supports your theory/claim of that WCUFO ship in that particular clip being a toy model, and was done by using the camera's zooming in feature to trick it into appearing the size of a real ufo ship/tree?

How about YOU try again and focus on the obvious -- the atmospheric haze. It proves the tree/WCUFO are small and close to the camera.

I responded to your here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
with this:

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by johnlear
Those of us who know its a true story are only mildly amuzed (amazed?) at your continued frantic efforts. Christmas ornaments, luggage clasps? Nice try, but....no cigar.

I think you might be alone in that category so perhaps you can explain how you know this is true. I'm of the assumption that even Horn doesn't believe this b.s. He's merely defending it for the coin.

You have no vested interest and you know it's true. I'd love to hear your reasoning.

John has no vested interest in Meier's case? It does to me, From my point of view, he is an disinformation agent working for the government.

Like what springer said, if the meier case was a government plan to discredit the UFO community, and judging from the comments and posts made by John, they make him look like a agent of disinformation to me.

Or he maybe purposely decieved by the government and set up as a unwitting agent of disinformation, maybe based on a government file which may show him to be highly gullible..... , may also expain his condescending tone and sarcasm. (Joke, Not fact.)

Which in my view, makes him seem less credibilty on all the information that he may have provided, and that of the "soul collector".

My personal opinions/views and theory based on reading his posts so far, No facts....

[edit on 11-5-2007 by ixiy]

vestri posted on 11-5-2007 @ 03:28 PM (ID:3184507, Post Number: 3,084,617

"explain how that person standing there at start of that WCUFO clip is irrelevant"

That is exactly where your first problem starts. before making an assumption pay attention to the link you posted.

Meier was not "standing" , he was on his knees and you noticed this when he is backing up and out of the frame. "false perspective"

Originally posted by ixiy

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by johnlear
Those of us who know its a true story are only mildly amuzed (amazed?) at your continued frantic efforts. Christmas ornaments, luggage clasps? Nice try, but....no cigar.

I think you might be alone in that category so perhaps you can explain how you know this is true. I'm of the assumption that even Horn doesn't believe this b.s. He's merely defending it for the coin.

You have no vested interest and you know it's true. I'd love to hear your reasoning.

John has no vested interest in Meier's case? It does to me, From my point of view, he is an disinformation agent working for the government.

Like what springer said, if the meier case was a government plan to discredit the UFO community, and judging from the comments and posts made by John, they make him look like a agent of disinformation to me.

Or he maybe purposely decieved by the government and set up as a unwitting agent of disinformation, maybe based on a government file which may show him to be highly gullible..... , may also expain his condescending tone and sarcasm.

(Joke, Not fact.)

Which in my view, makes him seem less credibilty on all the information that he may have provided, and that of the "soul collector".

My personal opinions/views and theory based on reading his posts so far, No facts....

[edit on 11-5-2007 by ixiy]

Actually we are not here to judge John Lear himself, but we have to seperate a couple of things.

Speculating something like a "soul collector" on the moon is one thing. First of all it is a speculation; not proved and not disproved. If you are interested in conspiracy, and what this forum actually is, than this speculation has some value. Although I personally find a speculation something like "soul collector" funny, I consider it appropriate in its context.
Defending Meier pics is another thing.
I can not find any reasonable explanation to defend these pictures. If someone is not critical about these pictures, then I would judge this person as not credible. If John Lear is defending these pictures per se, I really can not understand his attitude.
Defending the Meier case is yet another thing. Someone can still find the Meier case interesting in itself, as a whole, and from some points of view defendable.
One issue is left for me. If these pictures are really fake, and that is what I believe, and if some people still make money with these pictures, than there is a problem for me.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by manastin]

[edit on 12-5-2007 by manastin]

Originally posted by Cygnific

Picture your own x-mas tree. Take off the lower branches and what do you get? The remaining branches start flopping down because they are no longer supported from beneath and because there's room to do so. The tree in this picture shows the exact same thing.
Spruces and firs grow from the ground up in nature if I'm not mistaken. I have one in my garden and it's more or less triangular when viewed from the side. Widest at the bottom, smallest at the top. Again the tree in the pic shows none of this. Clearly it has been modified.

Maybe Meier did have real contact with aliens in the beginning but due to his inability to work decided to make a living from it.

He then becomes a guru and makes a good living faking material where needed and being a go to guy on aliens and ufos.

So if true then at what point does truth become fantasy when looking at Meier's claims?

Who knows his motives for sure? He was probably just a lonely and very bored man who had a vivid imagination and a knack for altering photographs and stuff like that...

Originally posted by Diplomat

Who knows his motives for sure? He was probably just a lonely and very bored man who had a vivid imagination and a knack for altering photographs and stuff like that...

I disagree. I don't think Bill Meiers was lonely or bored. And I don't think he altered any photographs 'and stuff like that'.

I believe that the Billy Meier case was one of the single biggest problems for the U.S. Government.

I don't actively participate in Billy Meiers defense because I consider it that same as researching Roswell. An incredible waste of time.

Both stories are true. Both happened.

But was attempts made against Billy's life? And if so, what person or organized party could have attempted or had reason to attempt such?

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
But was attempts made against Billy's life? And if so, what person or organized party could have attempted or had reason to attempt such?

The Meier camp claims that there were around 21 attempts of Meier's life but I don't know the details of every (supposed) attempt. According to Wendelle Stevens somebody took a potshot at Meier with a .22.
Some have argued that if there really was a desire of an intelligence agency to have him dead they would have succeeded. Like I said I don't know all the details, one attempts was a shot from small calibre rifle, another was a knife thrown against Meier's back, according to Meier. I don't know about witnesses who can corroborate all of those 21 attempts.
If there were attempts on Meier life, and I don't think that's improbable, in my opinion those attempts would have originated from people offended by Meier's religious claims. (Meier claims he's the reincarnated spirit of whom we mistakenly call Jesus Christ, the prophet Mohammed and a host of other biblical prophets.) This nonsense alone probably would have infuriated some people.

I feel this is one of those situations where if somone say's it happened it happened. If Mr Stevens' said or wrote someone took a pot shot at Billy, then I'd be the first to believe. I mean we're talking about a MAn who's a Ret USAF Col. His integrity is right there. I read some stuff about CIA attempts on Billy, but I cannot recall who or if it seemed in anyway credible?

Dallas

I wonder if any of the attempts on his life were angry former cult members, looking for some retribution.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Dallas
I feel this is one of those situations where if somone say's it happened it happened. If Mr Stevens' said or wrote someone took a pot shot at Billy, then I'd be the first to believe. I mean we're talking about a MAn who's a Ret USAF Col. His integrity is right there. I read some stuff about CIA attempts on Billy, but I cannot recall who or if it seemed in anyway credible?

There will be people who will in fact question Stevens' integrity. I know Stevens has done a lot on ufological material and I'd give him credit for that. Others would simply point out he's a convicted fellon as well. Naturally, just as in the Meier case, rhetoric arises that the CIA framed parties involved. But I've seen nothing that would point to intelligence agencies involved in assassination attempts. Speculation? Sure.

Originally posted by Crakeur
I wonder if any of the attempts on his life were angry former cult members, looking for some retribution. Just a thought.

Could be. Former members did press charges against Meier but it's difficult to find any information on that. Supposedly a former member had to take Meier's spiritual teachings while laying naked on a bunk, under a copper pyramid, in Meier's basement. This person was also concerned about the weapons cache on the property. Next he and his brother reported this to the police and it went to court. I don't know the outcome but what is known is that the persons who notified the police received a letter full of threats. Some believe that Meier himself wrote that letter (although he denies this) since the writing itself is similar to his and it was full of praises directed at Meier's person. Weird stuff.

Dunno Crakeur?, strange how in the alps of swiss-cheeseville someone may be shot at. Just the same, as Mr Stevens' has apparently stated someone took a pot shot at Billy.

Then they possibly went after Mr Stevens with mumbo-jumbo to false convict, perhaps based on a security breach, I mean back in the seventies I understand USAF people were under the 10yr/Leavenworth rule -- keep your mouth shut about things in the air, unidentified?

Dallas

edit: He also told some testimonials of late WW2 stuff in the air, his crews captured foo-fighters on gun-footage film. Mr Stevens' said it happened once-twice a month for the year or so he was there. The footage had to be picked up by a special courier and flown to Washington. Paraphrasing there, but I have Mr Stevens on vid from appx /94.

[edit on 14-5-2007 by Dallas]

Originally posted by johnlear
I believe that the Billy Meier case was one of the single biggest problems for the U.S. Government.

Oh, nonsense, John! Any normal person, i.e.: Someone not interested in UFOs, looks at the pictures and laughs. And if you ARE interested and start looking at the photos in a critical manner, you laugh even more. The Ray Gun? Gimme a break! The pictures have noticeably deteriorated over the years as well. The first photos were a lot better than the garbage can pics. In any case, the pictures themselves have been thoroughly debunked. If you do pursue the matter and start reading the written stuff, it gets even stranger. Time travel, Bible chapters, etc. The written stuff, insofar as it is even coherent, is way, way out there.

The only thing the US Government needs to do is a collective rolling of eyes, then a gleeful chuckle that someone like Meier came along to discredit the entire field so thoroughly. The Meier case is the best thing ever to happen to the US Government vis-a-vis UFOs.

The "biggest problem for the US Government."?

I don't think so.

schuyler, not so fast please. I believe your right-on in talking about the Laser Guns as it is the OPs subject matter.
But as your aware Billy's case has always required not just speculation but research as well (in order to keep up with it).
When solid people, not me, but such as Mr Stevens' as well as John suggests it's real event seems to me it's worth a deeper look-see. How did arrive at your conclusions?

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
When solid people, not me, but such as Mr Stevens' as well as John suggests it's real event seems to me it's worth a deeper look-see. How did arrive at your conclusions?

Rather than ask someone who sees all the evidence, the debunking, the faults in the photos etc why they don't believe the story (it seems somewhat obvious why someone wouldn't believe), why not ask Mr. Lear why he is so sure this is real, even with the broken models, the dinosaur drawing, the catalogue model, the actresses from a tv show, the garbage can lid, the ufos parked in trees, the toy gun similarites etc, why he is so sure this is real?

quote: "Rather than ask someone who sees all the evidence, the debunking, the faults in the photos etc why they don't believe the story (it seems somewhat obvious why someone wouldn't believe), why not ask Mr. Lear why he is so sure this is real, even with the broken models, the dinosaur drawing, the catalogue model, the actresses from a tv show, the garbage can lid, the ufos parked in trees, the toy gun similarites etc, why he is so sure this is real?"
___________________

Sorry, just asked a question. As far as I'm concerned you have been arguing the very existence of this thread with experts and I find your questions above to be based on others thoughts, not your own. Am I wrong? Debunking's a term for people who don't believe and demand or expect others to follow. I'd find that hard to believe with a moderator coming on line to prove that. Hope I din't do something to anger you.