Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by johnlear
Now on the garbage can wedding cake: if thats the garbage can lid, then there must be a garbage can in the garage without a lid. Where is that garbage can? I mean wouldn't they have taken a picture of the garbage can with the missing lid just to prove that that was the garbage can lid that was used for the wedding cake? Or did I miss this?

Folks, please take note of the attempted misdirection here. How would the absence of a photo showing a lid-less bin discredit the apparently clear notion that a lid from a bin was used in the construction of a model?

No John, it isn't necessarily a must be to have a can without a lid in the garage. Obviously the set is broken now; and everyone hates a broke up set. The lid-less can may have been given to a neighbor, thrown away, buried somewhere, or any number of things could have happened to it.

I, and I think a bunch of other posters here, pretty clearly can see that a lid from a grain or garbage bin was used to construct a model for some of these photos.

John Lear:
I know you are busy and have a lot of threads to deal with, but can you answer
my post a couple pages back in this very thread?
page 29 of this thread we are in right now
thank you.

Originally posted by johnlear
Now on the garbage can wedding cake: if thats the garbage can lid, then there must be a garbage can in the garage without a lid. Where is that garbage can? I mean wouldn't they have taken a picture of the garbage can with the missing lid just to prove that that was the garbage can lid that was used for the wedding cake? Or did I miss this?

That is false logic, johnlear.

Perhaps the barrel/garbage can was broken, meaning it was useless and was thrown away. With a spare lid being left over, it would be easy for Meier to look at it and decide that it could be a base for a model UFO.

I throw away broken containers, as they don't CONTAIN anything as well as they used to. I often keep spare lids in case I break a lid that matches a similar container.

Originally posted by Michael12
If I was the one claiming that Meier hoaxed his photos with a model UFO and a miniature tree and I was a photographer, model maker and I cultivated miniature trees, I would be ethically and duty bound to do one of two things.
1. Take photos of such a set up to prove my accusations.
2. Retract and apologize for those accusations.

Another piece of false logic.

Disproving a picture does not require that someone else needs to reconstruct the circumstances of the picture.

All that is required to disprove a picture, is to show, with evidence, that the picture is false.

Indeed,
Here is a comparison for you all.
Examine that the bottom of the "wedding cake ufo" is EXACT in it's dimentions and construct as the garbage can lid. Before you say "oh! how do you know/how can you tell?!" For goodness sake I have eyes. Since all we have to go on are photographs, this is all we can work with. Examine this comparison I have made and prove it is NOT the exact same thing. The bottom of this "ufo" IS a garbage can lid. A very earthly, common, everyday garbage can lid.


Everything from the amount of ridges, to the little handle thing poking out, to the lower lip is exactly the same.


[edit on 7-5-2007 by WhiteWash]

Just a quick question to the MOD's, i have seen a few members get banned for posting hoaxes here on ATS over time. Why is Mr horn any different ?.

Originally posted by helium3
Why is Mr horn any different ?.

Look at the length of this thread. This stuff has some pull man.

Originally posted by helium3
Just a quick question to the MOD's, i have seen a few members get banned for posting hoaxes here on ATS over time. Why is Mr horn any different ?.

I can answer that one helium3. Its because the Billy Meier case is not a hoax. There are certainly some unanswered questions. But Michael is doing the best he can under the circumstances.

If I had the time I would jump in and defend Billy myself but I'm busy with a breathable atmosphere and gravity on the moon.

I am sure the government would like to see this thread go away because they can't stand clear pictures of flying saucers.

But the thread will not go away anytime soon.

So helium3, let me respectfully suggest that if it bothers you so much try another thread. Thanks.

It has pull, plus I'm not certain the exact methodology for bannings, but since Gazrok started the thread, and Horn is just posting in it......
I would hazard a guess that if we could conclusively prove that any part of this is a hoax he would get banned again. I believe we have, but..i'm not staff so what do I know.

@johnlear

I really don't know what to say John, i have a tonne of respect for you and by far my favorite C2C was your "Lear Briefing". BUT how can you look at the WCUFO and deny the base is really just a mundane garbage lid as seen in the photos above ^^^^^?.

Originally posted by WhiteWash

John,
Can you please tell me Why you still think the object in the photo where something has dropped off ie the pin/bolt is real? In your opinion?

My opinion is that it is real. Why does it look real? Because I know enough about this crazy stuff to give an educated guess. My educated guess is that it is real. If you had heard the stories I have heard over the 20 years, talked to the people I have talked to; seen the stuff I have seen; heard about the stuff I had heard; then you to would probbly say, yeah, the wedding cake is probably real.

I would just like to understand why you think it is real.

Actually, nothing is real. It is all an illusion.

Let us examine something. If you have a craft that is built to travel in space, and also in atmospheres like the earth or any planetary body with pressures and atmospheres, what would happen if said craft had any type of hull breach or missing part? If this object was a real craft that is capable of interstellar travel, and it was created and flown by any beings of advanced technology and society, I find it hard to believe they would fly around in something that looks like mamma's pie plates, perhaps they could only afford a used "junker" at some intergalactic junkyard. Seriously, why does this object look like a trashcan lid with some sort of pots and pans welded to it with metal globes all over it? It looks like something someone made in their toolshed, and badly done at that. In addition the photos of the luminescent objects look exactly like a hanging halogen lamp reflection that was photographed through a color filter. This is rediculous.

I don't know if there was a question hidden in there or not. But the fact is I don't have the slightest idea of what a craft looks like that travels to interstellar space, and respectfully, neither do you. Maybe it doesn't look like that at all. Maybe that is a holograph surrounding the real craft. But, truthfully, for you to argue what can and what cannot travel to the stars is flat out ridiculous. You need to grab a bit of reality by the short hairs and admit we know nothing about nothing. We can speculate, but we are speculating from a knowledge based on speculation.

Not to mention Helium3 has just as much right to post in here as you or jritzman
etc, etc. Please examine your staff status John. Oh...that's right...you aren't staff...although you play one in here often enough. That's the umpteenth time I've seen you do that type of thing....



[edit on 7-5-2007 by WhiteWash]

Originally posted by johnlear

Well lets take a look here. Let me give you some examples of what else the outside world considers hopeless bunk:

That the U.S. in mining the moon
That U.S. astronauts have been going to Mars since 1966.
That U.S. astronauts have already explored Europa.
That the Pentagon Boeing 757 was a holograph.
That the moon has over half the gravity that earth does.
That the moon has a breathable atmosphere.
That there are cities on the moon.
That there was a fourth astronaut in Apollo 1.
That Osama bin Ladin didn't plan 911.
That the neocons did.

See what I mean here?

You gotta love it. You forgot some, though. Well, left some out, maybe:

Reptilian aliens are eating humans in underground bases.
There was a secret exchange program on Zeta Reticuli.
The moon has a giant tower that serves as a soul catcher between incarnations.
You saw Bob Lazar's MIT degree.
Venus has an atmosphere much like ours with a highly developed civilization.
Saturn and Jupiter aren't gas bags, but are normal planets like earth that support civilizations.
George Adamski was right.

See what I mean here?

Now theres an interesting sentence. "This thread is not advancing the state of the art." What art would that be Schuyler?

My take on this is hoaxes such as the Meier hoax serve to distract energy and attention away from the main issue. They also tend to make a laughingstock of the entire UFO issue, especially as far as the public is concerned. The more outrageous, the better. Every time someone or something is nailed as a hoax: Lazar, serpo, Burisch, Reed, the credibility of the issue is challenged. "Advancing the state of the art" means advancing the state of knowledge about the UFO phenomenon, including the government's role in covering it up, hopefully eventually to a point that we know what's going on, really. So I don't think advancing the state of the art is such a hard concept.

Actually, nothing is real. It is all an illusion

Now THAT I believe! :-)


[edit on 7-5-2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by WhiteWash

That's the umpteenth time I've seen you do that type of thing....

WhiteWash, please outline exactly what I am doing that is "that type of thing." Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
My educated guess is that it is real... if you had... seen the stuff I have seen; then you to would probbly say, yeah, the wedding cake is probably real.

johnlear
Actually, nothing is real. It is all an illusion.

johnlear
But the fact is I don't have the slightest idea of what a craft looks like that travels to interstellar space, and respectfully, neither do you. Maybe it doesn't look like that at all. Maybe that is a holograph surrounding the real craft.

johnlear, I am trying to understand what you typed.

You claim to have seen 'stuff' over a long period of time, that perhaps many people don't know about. Have you seen a UFO? Have you seen an alien space ship?

Then you claim that nothing we see is real, that everything is illusionary.

Then finally, you claim that you don't have the slightest idea what an interstellar craft looks like. Again, have you seen one before or not? Have you thought you have seen one, even if you think that it was an illusion?

I can't put those three quotes of your's together for them to make coherent, logical sense to me.

Do you also believe that the lid of the barrel is an illusion as well? Do you believe that it could be real?

You must have seen some fairly impressive things to guess that something looking like the lid of a barrel could be the base for an alien space ship. Perhaps, with more time, I'll try and read your biography to help me understand what you have seen - and then to determine if it was reality or illusionary?

Those three quotes of your's are very confusing.

Originally posted by Michael12
3. As for there clearly being "a horizontal object, protruding from the tree...holding up" the WCUFO, sorry, too silly, illogical and unsubstantiated to waste time on. Yes, feel free to take that anyway you wish. Same with the irrelevant to me concerns with the "mysterious thing" at the bottom of a photo of the WCUFO. As the overused saying goes, "And your point is?"

The horizontal object, protruding from the tree and under the WCUFO is visible in the video that was posted.

Originally posted by johnlear
WhiteWash, please outline exactly what I am doing that is "that type of thing." Thanks.

Sure John, not a problem:
example
example2
example3
example4

I suppose what I am referring to is instances where you "suggest" people leave the thread because you either do not like the "attitude" of their post, or what they are saying is something you disagree with. I just wonder why it is you believe yourself in some position to dictate such things?
At any rate,
When you answered above my previous post of a few pages back, you say that I have no basis to found my statement in which I talked about a spacecraft and it's ability to travel in space and what would happen if it had a hull breach/or missing part like the "wedding cake ufo" seems to have(even though it IS a trashcan lid with pots n pans and xmas ornaments all over it). Well, I have it on good authority the means these craft(or some of them) travel, IE the entire hull has an electromagnetic field flowing through and around it, as well as in the special suits the pilots wear. (See "The Day After Roswell" by Col. Philip J. Corso(Ret.)) In addition, I have my own experiences with strange craft, that I have seen fly(although true not IN outer space). In addition I am aware of how in Quantum Physics/etc the universe/reality we say is "real" is only real while we are observing it, and that my reality may differ from your reality...However, Since we all seem to be experiencing at least SOME of the same prime material plane of existence here, I think we can do away with the "matrix" silliness during discussions.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
The horizontal object, protruding from the tree and under the WCUFO is visible in the video that was posted.

Yup, thats the only way she stays aloft. It's also visible in another set of shots. But dont bring up such pesky stuff as that, because you'll get no answer. Thats too much like accountability for Mr. Horn and the Meier case.

Originally posted by johnlear
But the fact is I don't have the slightest idea of what a craft looks like that travels to interstellar space

Either do i , BUT id say its safe to assume if a race of beings that is THAT advanced and have mastered interstellar space travel there not using garbage lids, Christmas tree decorations and thumb tacks to construct there craft.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by WhiteWash

John,
Can you please tell me Why you still think the object in the photo where something has dropped off ie the pin/bolt is real? In your opinion?

My opinion is that it is real. Why does it look real? Because I know enough about this crazy stuff to give an educated guess. My educated guess is that it is real. If you had heard the stories I have heard over the 20 years, talked to the people I have talked to; seen the stuff I have seen; heard about the stuff I had heard; then you to would probbly say, yeah, the wedding cake is probably real.

If the WCUFO is "probably" real, what is under the base covering the ornament? You say you know alot of this crazy stuff, and this is very crazy no?
WCUFO 6

WCUFO 7