Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

the red nozel is from a gas can. The long metal part seems to be sawed off from a children's bicycle.
If Billy is telling the truth, I feel bad for him because one CANNOT take him seriously, his fault or not.



[edit on 3-5-2007 by jetflock]

Why is there no photo with a landed craft Michael? I asked you before but you only linked to photo's where the base was still not in full shot.. Is it for the reason that the crafts can't land at all? I find it hard to believe that in all that time Mr. Meier never ever had a picture made with a landed and parked aircraft. And why are trees so important to him? They gave him a tree or? He seems to like the trees as much as the UFO because they somehow are in 95% of the photo's he took or are they there to make some optical illusion?.

I don't know why there aren't better shots of a landed craft.

As for the trees, let me try this again:

Big tree = big object.

Logic inescapable.

Simple but true.

So, why indeed are people angry? Might as well yell at forestry experts for telling you what you don't want to hear.

And yes, the info in the Contact Notes and the spiritual teachings are the core of the case.

However, it is also said, many times in the Contact Notes that it will be about, oh, 700+ years before earth people are ready for contact with really far more advanced beings.

Reason?

Arrogant and ignorant know it alls who, instead of solving the "puzzle", condemn it because they don't "like" it. So, tantrums instead of understanding.

Originally posted by schuyler

It's quite obvious that Horn, a true believer, will never admit to the hoax. It's been proven over and over and over again, and all he can say is, "Too bad you guys can't prove it." People have found Meier's pictures of aliens in the Sears Catalog and on the Dean Martin Show and Horn says, "You haven't proven a thing." People have found Meier's flying dinosaur is part of a painting and Horn says nothing is proven. People have found the garbage can lid used to make the wedding cake model and Horn says nothing is proven. Say what??? Earth to Michael. There is a real disconnect here that shows he's not on the same channel as the rest of the world. There's a reason he's in the UFO Hall of Shame. Therefore, he can be dismissed.

But the issue can't.

Wise words. Trying argue sane points with nutjobs is a fools errand. Michael isnt getting anything more of duplications until he can address the issues the FIRST set brought up. He's never done that. Ever. And he wont.

I posted comparible shots of Meier and mine many times, side by side. He claims he's "studied the case". Well thats all well and good. But here's the funny part: He doesnt have knowledge in ANY specialty field with regard to the analysis he so vehemently touts. Of course, this means he really cant know anything but what he's told. And who tells him?

LOL...right.

Shove off Horn, no one here gives a rats you know what about this silliness.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by jritzmann
But here's the funny part: He doesnt have knowledge in ANY specialty field with regard to the analysis he so vehemently touts.

Great point jritzmann, unless Horn is indeed an expert in the field photo analysis ?.

Originally posted by Michael12
However, it is also said, many times in the Contact Notes that it will be about, oh, 700+ years before earth people are ready for contact with really far more advanced beings.

Right, ok. So why did they reveal themselves to Billy Meier decades ago instead of in 700 years time? Billy Meier is an Earth person, right? What makes him more special than other Earth people? I really want to know.

Why did they also show him the ray gun and fire it through a tree now, instead of in 700 years time, if people here could not handle it? Why was Billy allowed to take these pictures to distribute them to Earth people, if they knew that we could not handle it now?

Why would they also let Billy take pictures of their WeddingCakeUFO now, instead of in 700 years time? Are they giving us a 700 year grace period to ask why the WCUFO base looks like the lid from a barrel complete with matching groove on the edge?

Reason for contact with Meier: To plant the seeds that will take a LONG time to mature...like people here on earth. To make available to younger generations, so as to begin to stimulate thinking, etc. that will still need much cultivation.

Sound like another "excuse"? Read your forum and see just how much nonsense people believe, how many phantoms they chase, looking for excitement and escape. With several thousand years of religious pollution contributing to world wide wars and destruction, those unlucky enough to just survive might be more hungry for truth than the current crop of overly entertained, "we're number one!" screamers who equate conspicuous consumption with living.

But there are many more reasons and to know them one would have to...do their homework instead of relying on someone else's answers.

As for the ever popular, name calling, friendly farmer and model maker - baaaaaad boy! You know that you have absolutely refused to place ONE photo of your cute little model UFO next to a tree side by side with Meier's (abundant) images of same.

As Andy Rooney might whine, "Now why is that?"

That's rhetorical, since the answer is obvious and cannot be escaped or denied:

Cause ya can't. And that's important cause ya said ya could. But ya couldn't.

I probably understand about as much about photo analysis as most people here, probably less than some. But I can read, I can observe and I can think. When I watched the photo analysis, and they were going over the pixels, the edge enhancement, the contours (and absence of comparable results with model photos) I understood the comparison, I saw the information being...unpeeled and, likewise, when they showed the sound analysis and how the sounds showed on a scope, the unique, very complex IRREPRODUCIBLE with synthesizers patterns, I got that picture as well.

Even further, when one of the sound experts - who hadn't seen the WCUFO photos - was analyzing the sounds from that craft, to illustrate the kind of sound source that would generate it, he drew a top view of what looked like...the WCUFO.

When Marcel Vogel's spectral analysis of the metal sample revealed thulium, other rare elements and gases, and other features (including the absence of any ash, etc.) his conclusion was that it was done with a cold fusion process, one that not only didn't he have access to but no one else on the planet...then or now...not even Swiss farmers.

So the abject ignorance and defiance that characterize the attacks are not only self-incriminating of their authors, they are like a biopsy of the sad mind set that has allowed this country, for one, to be "led" by the least qualified, least wise, most power hungry, belligerent little bully boy to ever waddle through the Oval Office. He is the ultimate reflection of the brutishness (over 200 unprovoked attacks against other countries in 60 years) that is the worst of what once was a far better country.

Almost gone is the curiosity and wonder of discovery, the getting one's hands dirty in the learning process that used to be a thing of pride. And what does it have to do with this UFO case? Well, read the Henoch Prophecies - carefully - and see if you can detect just what we're bringing down upon ourselves...in this country, by doing what we've been doing to so many others - instead of minding our own business and getting about educating ourselves.

And then look at the aggression, defensiveness, bullying and other clear indicators of personal weakness, impotence and impoverished minds that clearly characterize the repetitively taunting and ignorant "challenges" - not the genuine ones, far and few between as they are.

BTW, my previous banning here had something to do with my having the bad taste to uncover the identity of a poster here, who is/was the attorney for ATS, and contributing to his apparent, shall we say reassignment from his (former) law firm. And no, I don't know if he was demoted to mail room, that may have only been a rumor.

Originally posted by Michael12
BTW, my previous banning here had something to do with my having the bad taste to uncover the identity of a poster here, who is/was the attorney for ATS, and contributing to his apparent, shall we say reassignment from his (former) law firm. And no, I don't know if he was demoted to mail room, that may have only been a rumor.

Your "taste" hasn't improved. You are about the most ill-tempered and poorly mannered "representative" for any organization I could imagine.

The vitriol you spew is disgusting and not the type of contribution I expect at ATS. I doubt your current reinstatement lasts much longer.

Originally posted by Michael12BTW, my previous banning here had something to do with my having the bad taste to uncover the identity of a poster here, who is/was the attorney for ATS, and contributing to his apparent, shall we say reassignment from his (former) law firm. And no, I don't know if he was demoted to mail room, that may have only been a rumor.

Your previous account termination had everything to do with your unproductive and anti-collaborative attitude, which happened to include the posting of personal information of a member. At the time, he did not represent us (and did so only briefly) and your despicable actions would have resulted in your banning no matter who you targeted.

Our tolerance for your return will be exceptionally limited. We certainly encourage people to learn from their mistakes and become collaborative participants in ATS, and we enjoy seeing it when it happens. I hope to see this in you.

Originally posted by schuyler
It's quite obvious that Horn, a true believer, will never admit to the hoax. It's been proven over and over and over again, and all he can say is, "Too bad you guys can't prove it."

Exactly.

People have found Meier's pictures of aliens in the Sears Catalog and on the Dean Martin Show and Horn says, "You haven't proven a thing." People have found Meier's flying dinosaur is part of a painting and Horn says nothing is proven. People have found the garbage can lid used to make the wedding cake model and Horn says nothing is proven. Say what??? Earth to Michael. There is a real disconnect here that shows he's not on the same channel as the rest of the world. There's a reason he's in the UFO Hall of Shame. Therefore, he can be dismissed. But the issue can't.

I was thinking about putting up a list but you saved me the trouble. However there are much more irregularities and indications of (possible) fraud within the Meier case. Horn would do the excuse cut&paste routine on these as well.
The trees Horn keeps talking about are..............not there anymore. So much for 'duplicating' stuff on the scene in Switzerland. That's mighty weird. Meier took a lot of pics with alleged UFOs close to the trees (real big trees according to Horn) but you can't look them up in the Swiss country. The 'aliens' took them away, in another instance the UFO bumped into the tree and the top fell on the ground. Again making it highly unusual since we know other pics belonging to Meier are questionable and UFOs close to trees seem no exception. The missing trees can lead to the notion that deception is involved here but that's one notion Michael Horn is not going to entertain. The deception consisting of a model and smaller tree being used as props. Take a good look at the tree in some shots and the position of the camera. (Hint: close to the ground - creating false perspective.)
Yet there's so much more Horn would rather steer away from. Meier wasn't always the prophet delivering highly evolded messages to us dumb and ignorant Earthlings. It turns out Meier spend some 4,5 years in prisons and mental institutions. Once even he busted out of a mental institution and fled to France where he joined another 'fine' society named the French Foreign Legion. This may come as no suprise but Meier deserted from the latter and spend many years in the Middle East and even became a 'Sheik'. I rubbed this under Horn's nose a couple of times and got replies purely intended on exonorating Meier from any wrongdoing. That solidified my opinion that Horn, to put it very diplomaticly, can not be trusted on the Meier material. He'll talk a psychosis on you before he admits defeat. Bottom of the barrel, period.

Meier also claimed he found the 'original bible' in Israel. Don't get to excited, you'll find no clear cut evidence, just more theoretical nonsense aimed at creating myth.

And that is what this is all about.

originally posted by Michael12 And then look at the aggression, defensiveness, bullying and other clear indicators of personal weakness, impotence and impoverished minds that clearly characterize the repetitively taunting and ignorant "challenges" - not the genuine ones, far and few between as they are.

is YOU Michael Horn!

Dude get a CLUE!

I understand you have spent time, and maybe some money on this, but it's NOT our fault or anyone interacting with you here's you haven't seen a return! Or if you have, one that would make you happy which you OBVIOUSLY are not.

LOOK at what you are presenting and more importantly at how LACKING your "pitch skills" and social graces are! You may find a solution then, then again maybe you won't.

In any event you need to "get past the BULLSHYTE" or you will be gone from the one site that actually has the traffic to help you.

Springer...

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Springer]

Fellas, now be nice...and let everyone in on the whole deal with Mr. Centrist, who started a thread about an interview of me done by David Burd of WTOP. Curiously, wihtin a short time, Mr. Centrist actually accused me of not having been interviewed! It was a strange business.

As a matter of fact he wrote to Burd trying to get him to say that it hadn't happened! But Burd told him that not only did he interview me but it was the MOST popular interview he'd done. Burd, at his own initiative, sent me a copy of the email from Mr. C and his own repsonse to it. Unfortunately, Mr. C posted his law firm's info along with his real name.

Now, I could care less if anyone believes this but I (who freely uses his real name and face, etc.) simply didn't know that it was not nice to post the actual identity of someone, especially some coward who was slandering me. However, I make no apologies for it. I have nothing to hide and, well, he did, obviously.

Relatively soon, the world will know a lot more about Meier too, his early years, in the French Foreign Legion when he was about 16 (is Tx at all familiar with a term we have here, "conscientious objector"?), the "incarceration", etc. so there's no need for me to let the cat out of the bag about that, or any of the other gems contained therein.

I will say that the disinfo promoted Mr. Tx and others will be both transparent and a thing of the past, so they might as well vent their spleens while they can.

And really, what's all this wimpy stuff warning me about being banned and being less than polite to people? I know that there may be a couple of females who do occasionally post here but for the guys, please, stop being wimps. If you want to ban me, ban away, I could give a lesser care. I exercise my skills at repartee and I'm met with some really clunky, thin-skinned stuff not worthy of - men. If I'm kryptonite here, oh well.

I'm used to having intelligent discussions about the Meier case with people, pro and con, who actually understand evidence, reasoning, etc. It's almost non-existent here, which makes it mildly useful to me, i.e. to get the worst, most illogical, unsubstantiated, UNINFORMED comments and play with them. Now, since I'm already getting bookings for international appearances, with more to come after the film is out, why shouldn't I hone my skills, and perfect my patience?

But as I said, if you're throwing in the white towel of surrender, so be it. Can you imagine for even one minute what would happen if any of these debunkers had a bullet whiz by their heads, as has happened to Meier on so many occasions? Not only a career change but a change of underwear.

Talking tough and nasty is no substitute for strength of character and complaining about having your shortcomings pointed out is, again, wimpy. So rail away, tell tale tales, deny the facts, heck, party on down. But stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat, isn't that how the saying goes?

Originally posted by Michael12
I know that there may be a couple of females who do occasionally post here

Just a COUPLE ? and ONLY occasionally ?, this has to be your most ignorant and naive statement to date. Id think for someone who describes there music as

brilliant, heartfelt, heroic, romantic, poetic, passionate, witty and filled with insight and wisdom

Would be WAY ABOVE sexism


www.theyfly.com...

Michael, can you explain what the item is marked inside the yellow marking? And why it is blocking the tree that is behind the other picture? To me it look suspicously like a hand with a glove, i could be very wrong ofcourse.

I simply cannot believe that people are still trying to push these ridiculous photos as REAL! If the supposed occupants of this object are meant to be 3" tall, then hairy muff, fair enough. But if they were meant to have taken Billy up in one of those... Well, someone should take a hubcap, and an SLR camera, with a 35mm lens on a darkish day, as above, and see what aperture they are shooting with. My guess, f4. Minimum.

Now you will see the DEPTH OF FIELD that you get. It will be around 2ft. Max. Hence the garden Wall, to the right of the image is out of focus, while the foreground, the object, is sharp. As the sharpness obviously decreases beyond the wall, this can ONLY mean one thing. The "saucer" is between the camera and that garden wall. Which means it is roughly 18 inches across.

There is no way Billy can distort the laws of physics.

The only thing that should get these images reproduced is an article entitled "How Did People Create UFO Hoaxes Before Photoshop?"

Hi Cygnific,

I'm not exactly clear on what you mean. The object is in front of the house. There may be some things growing there, I'll take a look at another picture. Please clarify if you can.

BTW, to those complaining about the size of the craft, there were THREE different sized WCUFOs. One was said to be a remote with the other two indeed large enough for someone to pilot it.

As for size estimates of the one in the photos above, see:

www.theyfly.com...

...and note the size (height and width) of the man and the box in the photos I took.

As for the "sexist" comments, you've lost me there completely.

Read and research...or just snarl if you prefer and wait for feeding time.

This is TOP SECRET

I get my ray guns from here:

www.bergintoys.com...

you can too, then we can all play.

Michael, why no response to the pictures of the "ufo" with the tack that fell off?

I'm sure the garbage can lid similarities you'll wave off as a coincidence but you must admit, it is somewhat strange that the aliens that visit your boss have the knowledge and technology to build a craft that can travel vast distances and they can take him back in time but they can't seem to come up with a design for their ships that doesn't look exactly like a garbage can lid.

While - amazingly - there are still "garbage can lid" theorists out there, they get absolutely no points for repitition of their obviously and observably incorrect nonsense. Did anyone else notice that it's FIGU people themselves who posed with and explained the garbage can lid? Wow, some way to try to fool people, brilliant.

So here's info regarding why we really don't have a garbage can lid floating way up in the tree tops:

"Wedding-cake craft partially eclipsed by large fir tree. Only after the English version of Meier's Fotobuch came out did I become aware of his photo #850 as published in Through Space and Time: A Photo Journal of "Billy" Eduard Albert Meier (Tulsa, OK: Steelmark LLC, 2004), p. 114. See Fig. 10. This was in the hills in the general vicinity of the villages/towns of Auenberg, Egg, Girenbad and Hinwil, some 15 miles ESE of Zurich. Meier shot it around 2:30 pm, April 3, 1981 while standing on the top of his van, according to his 1999 Verzeichnis. One can see 5 or 6 separate main branches of the tree eclipsing most of the right-hand side of the craft, with more of its branches extending out to the tree's left side above the craft on up to the tree's top. According to Dr. Edward C. Jensen, Associate Dean for Academic Affairs, Elizabeth P. Ritchie Distinguished Professor, Forest Ecology and Natural Resources Education, Oregon State University:

"The portion of the tree above the potential UFO appears to me to be in the range of 6-10 feet. Although it's pretty fuzzy, there appear to be 5 or 6 whorls of branches with an average growth (and this is just an educated guess) of 1-2 feet between whorls." (March, 2006)

This 6-10 ft estimate of the height of the portion of the tree above the craft then translates to a height for the craft of 4 to 7 feet, and a diameter of 8.8-15.4 ft, or from 2.7 to 4.7 meters. This suggests that it was the same 3.5m craft as shown in Figs. 5 and 6 above, and hovering very close behind the tree.

Another opinion on the tree in question comes from Professor Emeritus Doug Brodie of the College of Forestry, Oregon State University.

"The tree is one of the European true firs -- Abies species. The picture has only a portion of the top of the crown 10 to 15 feet. There could be anywhere from 10 to 50 feet of tree bole below the picture." (March, 2006)"

About there being three different sized craft, of course I'm sure that everyone knew that and was just testing me to see if I can deal, first thing in the morning, with such "serious" challenges to the case:

"At this time Meier was away from home, near the main street of Rotenthurm, a town some 15 km southeast of Zug, Switzerland. Meier was informed that this was a 14m diameter craft, although it appears to be virtually identical to the 7m and/or 3.5m diameter craft we have already viewed. If 14 m in diameter, the camera equation indicates it was 50m (165 ft) distant. The auto, which seems not to have been moving though on the main street and containing a driver, is estimated to have been nearly 30 m distant (97 ft) if it was 17 ft long. A nearer tree in leaf eclipses a portion of both the wedding-cake craft and the car (its trunk). If this tree's width extended 8 ft, it was then some 60 ft distant."

Actually, considering that there are/will be other parties who read this thread, the people who keep up with their uneducated theories should be ashamed of themselves - except that anonymous screen names will, for the most part, prevent others from knowing who the authors of such foolishness are.

The absence of both intellect, reasoniing AND courage produces a strange product.

Originally posted by Michael12
As for size estimates of the one in the photos above, see:

www.theyfly.com...

...and note the size (height and width) of the man and the box in the photos I took.

Are you, like, snorting and giggling when you post this stuff? I certainly get a chuckle out of it.

It doesn't require any type of "explanation" or "analysis".....its a frickin' model. It isn't even a good optical illusion. Maybe its the way some people percieve depth of field, but to me, its plainly a small object, close to the camera. Root around in the vast library of images and find one that depicts the grain bin lid flying around behind the house or barn.

I noticed your reference to a "one-armed man" on the page....again.....I watched a one-armed man golf this past weekend. Please stop insulting one arm people.