Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by Michael12
Too harsh? Hey, if you can't stand the heat...don't start trying to bake cakes.

Mr Horn maybe you should practice what you preach and stop dodging my questions ?. I was listening to the Randolph Winters tape "Jesus Christ and the concept of God" and i think it was the seconded tape side one when Mr Winters went on to state that there was an evil race of aliens living under one of the pyramids in Egypt. These evil aliens planeted a bomb of some description under San Francisco, but the Pleiadeans cannot intervene so they tell Billy where the bomb is located and he recovers it. Then the evil aliens are Pi$$ed so they shoot up Billy house while there is some ceremony taking place, lucky no ones home. This then changes the rules of engagement, Billy and the Pleiadeans take the evil aliens from underneath the pyramids and banish them to some other planet. After all you did co-produce the tapes so you have to know what im talking about ?

[edit on 2-5-2007 by helium3]

Originally posted by Michael12

BTW, I actually LOVE these softball challenges because the new people who pop in then get directed to the info that easily rebuts the nonsense. But I must say, whatever motivates the skeptics, payroll, vendetta (for what?), ignorance, etc. they serve the purpose long foretold, i.e. that they would unwittingly help promote the Meier case - and ultimately the huge UFO cover-up.

We are not all skeptics. Many believe but are tired of these easily identifiable hoaxes destroying any chance at credibility. Any reasonably intelegent person can spot many of the fakes. It makes them think the whole issue is a bunch of tripe. Not to mention those who are producing the fake evidence don't even believe in it themselves.

Post the P&L sheets from over the years? Now that would be interesting.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

We are not all skeptics. Many believe but are tired of these easily identifiable hoaxes destroying any chance at credibility. Any reasonably intelegent person can spot many of the fakes. It makes them think the whole issue is a bunch of tripe. Not to mention those who are producing the fake evidence don't even believe in it themselves.

No kidding. Just found a great site that shows the wedding cake UFO is made from a garbage can lid! Even the lid's handle is duplicated on the wedding cake. Sure is appropriate. Thought I bookmarked it. I'll find it and post. Here it is!

Gotta admit Horn is a good bulldog for Meier. It's just that he doesn't seem to recognize that he is a laughingstock.

[edit on 2-5-2007 by schuyler]

Originally posted by Blaine91555


We are not all skeptics. Many believe but are tired of these easily identifiable hoaxes destroying any chance at credibility. Any reasonably intelegent person can spot many of the fakes. It makes them think the whole issue is a bunch of tripe. Not to mention those who are producing the fake evidence don't even believe in it themselves.

I dont know about yourself but UFO's are just a life long hobbie for me, so if decide to back the latest Ufology story on ATS and if turns out to be bunk i still have a day job. Sadly Mr horn does not have that luxury cause he makes a living from pushing the Meier story, so for Horn to admit the story a hoax he is committing careerer suicide. You only have to look at theyfly.com product section to realize that Micheal would be making a nice crust from the sales, he even has a musical release for sale:

You haven't heard his songs before. And now you'll remember them forever. Those who have heard them are already describing Michael's songs as brilliant, heartfelt, heroic, romantic, poetic, passionate, witty and filled with insight and wisdom. They're saying that he's a man with something to say who actually knows how to say it, a songwriter worth quoting; his exotic images draw you in, his meaningful words evoke a myriad of deep feelings, his songs compel you to listen again and again.

Sounds like one of those cheesy K-tel ads from the 70's......But wait theres more, buy now and you get Mr Horns latest smash hit "Damn that Ray gun photograph ruined my hustle".

[edit on 2-5-2007 by helium3]

Originally posted by Michael12
As a friend of mine (and UFO SKEPTIC) with 50 years in the film, special effects industry said, "Meier's photo is actually a TRIPLE exposure, most likely in camera. If the critic (Biedney) claims otherwise, he should duplicate it." End of Biedney.

No. End of Horn. That particular picture was claimed to be a real UFO for decades, yet not a word from you on that. Clearly you're deceiving by not going into the mechanics of the whole story but whatelse is new.

Wasn't the pic claimed to be spacecraft of some sort?

Oh yeah, it's a double exposure! No! It's a triple exposure, Biedney must lying and is not credible!

THE PIC IS FALSE, PERIOD.

And that's what Biedney pointed out but you rather focus on other things than Meier claimed this to be a real UFO picture. You're such a conman Horn.

My, my. If I hadn't used the word apoplectic here before I'd be slinging it all over the place. In no particular odor, or is it order:

Mr. Helium, what questions exactly am I dodging? And why are you saying that I co-produced tapes with Randy Winters that I didn't? If you would please clarify and organize your thoughts, and then give me a question that I can work with, I'll do my best.

To the Johnny-come-latelys who've posted links to pages re the WCUFO - HELLO!!! - I posted the links already and anyone not using a seeing eye dog should be able to discern, reason, figure out, etc. that the WCUFO is a FULL-SIZED OBJECT...as the forestry experts have indirectly confirmed through identifying the trees as mature, full-grown ones.

Really, as amusing as it is to see that there are still rather careless folks thinking they've discovered the "household items" used to hoax the WCUFO photos (63) and the VIDEO, please pay attention.

Regarding the REALLY sloppy comments regarding Biedney and the famous "light" ship UFO, yes, it IS claimed that the object in question is a UFO. Yes, it IS claimed that there are TWO clear (and a couple of less clear) photos of it, YES, the photo in question (the one that the genius Photo Shop expert couldn't duplicate) IS a triple exposure OF THE OBJECT and YES, investigators Lee & Brit Elders, the (former) SKEPTICS, also saw a similar object while invsetigating the case.

Sooooo, as is usual for our VERY excitable, consistently (reliably so) INACCURATE skeptic here, Biedney was not only wrong but unable to duplicate what he said was SIMPLY a light photographed against a dark curtain, etc. Gosh, what will they think of next?

And I'm supposed to get all excited here? About what? A variation on the Keystone Cops tripping all over themselves and each other?

Now I know that the way it works here is that I (or whoever the target would be) presents the reasonable, established, proven, factual answers and they are simply ignored and, within a short time, the EXACT same numbskull "challenges" are hurled out, as if for the first time, as if never answered before. And one would think that this is supposed to irritate, goad and gall me.

But wait, there's more! That's right, the same thoughtless, disingenuous and careless ploy to pretend like no answer was given, to pretend that decades of irreproducible evidence is equivalent to no evidence, allows for my openly admitted agenda to go almost unnoticed. Quite simply, ATS (and this forum in particular) are effectively in my employ (charitably free, thanks) to drive traffic to my site. Yes indeed. And what people find there is a wealth of, look out, here comes the dirty word - FREE - information (and links to more of it) generously provided by yours truly.

Of course, the complainers want to point to my Products page, which I gratefully allow them to do since I actually do no advertising for my site and its products to speak of. The funny thing is that if the complainers would actually READ EVERYTHING on my site, they'd KNOW to their own satisfaction if the case is authentic or not. But no, they want to complain and, in so doing, make other people curious about my site and, heaven forbid, effectively promote the products for sale there!

And while all sorts of imaginary versions of who I am, how I make my living, what I've achieved, etc. are declared as truth (by people who don't even know me) I am still thrilled that you are giving me that PR...normally an expensive proposition, as you may know.

So, if there really are any questions for which you've just been unable to find answers, or if you just want to pretend that you're a broken record...be my guest. I am gonna show up and contribute here so as to entertain and inform. I will also, as a courtesy to my many fans here, shortly provide an authorized biography...just to set the facts straight.

Oh yeah, I'm supposed to be on revision3.com... Thursady night - with a skeptic.

Okay, I'm back, sorry I took so long. Now below you'll find some of my bio/resume and for those of you who've, foolishly, tried to assail me for whatever you try to assail me for (especially financial opportunism) please note that I am not unfamiliar with jealousy, envy and the all too human tendency to try to whittle someone else down to one's own small stature in life.

However, I am forgiving, to a point, and as long as such inaccurate thoughtlessness is not repeated once they've been informed, they can expect me to not draw any further attention to being vastly more accomplished and resourceful than my attackers. I should add that there is occasionally the irresistible urge on the part of some people to try to pick apart a specific accomplishment, while not knowing that the laundry listing (for resume purposes) does not at all give the in depth picure, if you get my drift.

So, without further ado, and quite modestly, voila:

Michael Horn is the Authorized American Media Representative for the Billy Meier Contacts (www.theyfly.com), which he has researched since 1979 (and proved to be absolutely authentic) and is the writer, producer and narrator of the new DVD "The Meier Contacts - The Key To Our Future Survival". His very eclectic background includes: film producer, prize-winning painter, designer/creator of the still popular fashion fad "fingernail art" (featured in Harper's Bazaar magazine), award-winning songwriter, one of the first creators of digital online book publishing (ebooks), music and video producer, science researcher, national and international lecturer, frequent media guest, published writer, credentialed teacher, humorist, pioneer in commercial water purification applications (Starbucks), set designer, health care professional, creator of the Future Self interactive therapeutic video technique, volunteer work with children and seniors, creator of the Standing In Spirit regenerative movement/stress relief program (which Michael was invited to teach to corporate and government leaders in Europe,such as BASF, Eurochemie, Rabobank, KLM, Cyco Software, ING Bank, Meta Visie, by a consultant to Princess Diana), creator/teacher of the Sit & Get Fit videotapes and program for seniors (www.sitandgetfit.com), as well as for personnel at U.S. corporations like Xerox and Candle. Michael has been featured in two issues of the international martial arts magazine INSIDE KUNG FU demonstrating advanced strength and flexibility Chi Gong exercises and has articles published in Nexus, Mystic Pop and UFO magazines. Additionally, “More Than Just Survival", Michael Horn's new song CD of all original songs, has been released featuring the single "Forgive Yourself".

P.S. And kids, remember that I represent the Meier case voluntarily, as in FREE, gratis, nichts, nada, niente, etc.

BTW, it's not necessary to call me Mr. Horn, Michael is just fine.

[edit on 2-5-2007 by Michael12]

Originally posted by Michael12

P.S. And kids, remember that I represent the Meier case voluntarily, as in FREE, gratis, nichts, nada, niente, etc.


[edit on 2-5-2007 by Michael12]

So i assume all profits from the following items:

The Meier Contacts - The Key To Our Future Survival
Meier Case Update - 2006 - new four-hour, double-DVD
The Meier Contacts - VHS

Goes towards kids with polio ?.

Ah, another incorrect assumption! And you're really quite naughty for making me repeat myself (okay, I know I said that I'd do it to play the game here).

So let's follow along:

I do ALL my research, investigation, travel, correspondence, interviews, production of DVDs (and the new film), writing, promotion, advertising, and sometimes personal appearances...AT MY OWN EXPENSE, VOLUNTARILY, AS IN ALSO FOR FREE, GRATIS, NICHTS, NADA, NIENTE, ETC. AND ETC.

I actually keep a percentage of the sales of the products since I have a little retail business which, rather than being a dishonorable, outrageous, beastly thing to do, is still (to the best of my knowledge) an ADMIRABLE, CHERISHED part of the free enterprise system upon which this world still turns.

Since being self-responsible, resourceful and enterprising are indeed qualities worthy of respect and emulation, I'm sure that, rather than wanting to portray my risk-taking, entrepreneurial spirit as anythingl less than inspiring, you're actually inquiring in order to motivate yourself, and possibly others, to regain the ballsy, courageous mark of real manhood (personhood works too) that's sadly lacking in so many of the couch potato generation, nicht wahr?

Originally posted by Michael12
AT MY OWN EXPENSE, VOLUNTARILY, AS IN ALSO FOR FREE, GRATIS, NICHTS, NADA, NIENTE, ETC. AND ETC.

Please can you lay of the disillusions of grandeur its not like you are risking your life in Ethiopia to give medial aid to dying children. Maybe its just me but when i hear "voluntarily work" i don't associate the follow statement:

Originally posted by Michael12
I actually keep a percentage of the sales of the products

Deep down you have to know its a hoax.

Originally posted by Michael12
"has anyone met Meier?", yes, I have spent time with him and the group in Switzerland over the past seven years. I've even tried, four times in three years, to trip him up with a "trick" question."

Bingo!!!!! not even you really believe in his "BS"

that is why you keep trying to trick him. Shame on you MH trying to trick the prophet "Emmanuel" aka prophet billy meiers. isn't that a sin?

Bottom line is you really showed us with that comment that you still don't believe him and that is why you keep trying to see if he makes a mistake, otherwise why would someone test a person credibility? Humans do that when they have doubts about that person. It will be really entertaining to see how you are going to get out of this one. Pss MIB were controlling my thoughts when I wrote that excuse, will not be accepted.

Not matter what you will write (not even a long post) is going to change the fact that you still doubt billy meiers yourself. sleep on that!!! if you can.

[edit on 3-5-2007 by MANNYP4]

Ahem, the director of the new film on the Meier case, a skeptic himself, has expressed it perfectly when he said, "It's really too bad that you don't have credible opponents to debate this with."

I guess unless I leave the country to do my volunteer work (with children and the elderly) as my astute friend here will surely assure us that HE does, volunteer work doesn't count. What? And what does volunteer work have to do with...making a living? Voluntarily representing the case was already explained, for those who are capable of...paying attention (it's that ol' ADD thing I keep muttering about).

As far as believing Meier goes, well, I'm glad you brought that up. And so, for the thinkers among you (and I know you're there) the following:

I don't need to "beleive" Meier. "Belief" is for cults, religions, sects and the superstitious. Do you "believe" in gravity...or do you KNOW that it's an observable, verifiable fact of life?

Right.

I've taken the time and trouble to actually research and investigate everything I could in the Meier case. That which I could check out against the facts has verified, corroborated and authenticated Meier...EVERY time. Therefore, I KNOW that Meier has been correct and truthful.

What I don't know and can't PROVE is that EVERYTHING he's published is true. How could I? So much of it deals with the far distant past, or future, or that which is outside of my ability to determine at the moment.

Therefore, I do what any credible, OBJECTIVE researcher would do...I look for any holes, inconsistencies or possible other explanations. I haven't found any and so, trying to "trick" Meier is fair game and in service to finding the truth, a concept that some people should become more a lot more familiar with.

Now, it should also be made quite clear that those who cry "cult" can't have it both ways. If I'm demonstrably not a "true beleiver", and only go on the facts, and if there is absolutely no resistance to this approach from Meier or FIGU, well, so much for that line of thinking...though I'm almost willing to bet that the misdirection will be raised at least once again by some genius.

Horn manages to sidestep the real issues here by attacking people directly. The really amazing thing is that Horn doesn't understand that he's beaten. The Meier case is absolutely riddled with ridiculous assertions and absolutely laughable fake pictures. We should probably just start over, but these are just a few of the issues off the top.

1. The Ray Gun Pictures. Enough said.

2. The wedding cake pictures. The bottom layer is a garbage can lid, complete with handle (reference above). Perspective analysis shows the model can't be over 2-3 feet in size. (same ref)

3. The dinosaur picture--lifted from a book.

4. Picture of alien--screen shot from Dean Martin show.

5. UFO pics--complete with strings when enhanced (ref above).

6. The 'triple exposure' nailed by Biedny here (mp3) and Horn doesn't even know he was nailed. Go listen and see if YOU think Horn 'won' the debate. It wasn't even close.

7. Model in garage. "My kids were playing with it." Yeah, right.

8. The wife says they were models. "She's not reliable." WHO's not reliable?

This stuff is ludicrous. The Meier case has been exposed over and over again from many different angles. Horn can respond with as many words as he wants, but the fact remains that this stuff is ludicrous. The really sad part of this, and why it is actually important, is that when you take someone from outside the field, someone who is not particularly interested, and show them something like the ray gun, they've got to break out in giggles. The ray gun is hysterical. And, of course, the reaction is that this is 'so typical of the gullible UFO nuts.' Consequently, things like Disclosure fail to gain traction. The hoaxers make a lot of noise, and that detracts from the issue. Meanwhile, the keepers of the secrets just lean back and smile. People like Horn keep them safe.

Originally posted by helium3

Deep down you have to know its a hoax.

Helium3, usually you are fairly well informed. In this case I find the opposite.

Originally posted by schuyler
The Meier case is absolutely riddled with ridiculous assertions and absolutely laughable fake pictures.

I disagree. I think most if not all of the pictures are real. I think the Billy Meier case is real. I believe Billy Meier was telling the truth about his experiences.

It doesn't make any difference to me whether or not Horn is making a buck off of the information. More power to him.

The same people that label Billy Meier as a hoax probably would do the same to George Adamski, Howard Menger and Truman Betherum.

Me? I think they all had real experiences and reported them accurately.

But thats just my 2 cents worth. What the heck would I know? I certainly haven't been to the moon.

How some of you people can look at the "wedding cake" ufo and the dino pics, and the other evidence that clearly shows this is a hoax and Still say you believe speaks volumes. Lear, you only seem to support the people in ufo history who are very questionable. (Other than Bob Lazar, who I tend to believe) such as the three you mentioned in your post above. "Space Brothers" indeed. I wish their stories were true. It would be nice if beings from another planet had only our best intentions in mind. However, from intel inside the U.S. Army and other agencies, These beings are willfully sabotaging our missle bases, our space programs/craft, etc. (Read The Day After Roswell, if you haven't already) I cannot think of a more credible source than Col. Corso.
That is not to say that there aren't some peaceful beings visiting us, I know.
I certainly hope there are peaceful entities visiting and trying to help us. Because if you read between the lines and know your history within the government and it's R&D programs even during WWI, you will know that we
have been putting defenses in place to deal exclusively with a threat from beyond this planet.


[edit on 3-5-2007 by WhiteWash]

I don't know about her toy gun but that outfit is just fierce! Anyone know where she got it?

Originally posted by WhiteWash
How some of you people can look at the "wedding cake" ufo and the dino pics, and the other evidence that clearly shows this is a hoax and Still say you believe speaks volumes.

I think what you are implicitly stating, which I tend to agree with, is that if you can satisfy yourself that one photo or other piece of evidence is hoaxed, then all of other of the person'sother photos and evidence should be viewed extremely suspect. Certainly in real life, if I caught someone making fake materials to substantiate a huge claim, I would not believe most anything the person says unless it was obviously a true statement.

Originally posted by WhiteWash

Because if you read between the lines and know your history within the government and it's R&D programs even during WWI, you will know that we have been putting defenses in place to deal exclusively with a threat from beyond this planet.

Which in our supreme and infinite capacity for arrogance we think will work.

Originally posted by johnlear

The same people that label Billy Meier as a hoax probably would do the same to George Adamski, Howard Menger and Truman Betherum.

I certainly agree with you there. these guys deserve a thread of their own. Adamski met a Venusian named Orthon. He also met people from Mars and Saturn. He took a trip to Venus and discovered this was where Mrs. Adamski had been reincarnated. Howard Menger also met Venusians and claimed the back side of the moon had many populated cities. He met a long-haired girl in a tranluscent ski suit in the woods by his home and was physically attracted to her. Betherum said he visited the planet Clarion, a highly populated planet in Earth's orbit, but exactly opposite the sun so we couldn't see it. The inhabitants were all Christians and spoke perfect English, albeit always in rhyme. The Captain of the UFO that took him to Clarion was a beautiful Latin-type woman who wore a short red dress, a blouse in black velvet and a beret with black velvet and red trim.

So, yes, I certainly would put these three wonderful examples of contactees in the same boat with Billy. Thanks for pointing them out.