Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

ok, so where can I view the books? I'd like to take a look and see them before I sign up. Nonprofits here in the states must make documents available to the public. Not sure if swiss non-profits have the same rules but, if they do, please direct me to the location of the books and records.

It obviously doesn't work that way. As you say, they are a Swiss organiztion (which means abiding by VERY strict Swiss laws) and, since you're not a member, you'd have to go there to make your request to see the books anyway.

But I think that you're putting the cart way before the horse. First, the informaion about the case is abundant, with much of it freely available. If you want more info, before you get into a dues paying situation, etc. you can get a book or DVD, etc. and see if it adds to your knowledge and/or influences your desire to join a group of people studying the material.

You could also join or simply observe the online FIGU Forum, linked form my site, and read or participate in the communications with peole there. You should also know that while you get publications from FIGU with the membership, they are mostly in German, so you have to decide if that's an influencing factor.

Also, there are small study groups here and there that you may be near or could be in touch with. Being a Passive Member has certain obligations, as spelled out, and certainly isn't required to learn about the case. So pardon me if I seem to be in any way discouraging but I think people should be well informed and clarify their own goals to see if they fit with the details of group membership.

Lastly, just in case anyone is wondering, there are no secret handshakes, promises of free sex, Rolls Royces in the driveway or any such, as may be associated with different groups.

P.S. You can always contact FIGU diectly with more specific questions.

[edit on 26-4-2007 by Michael12]

Originally posted by Michael12
"I think you misunderstood. Please show me where I (as in little ol' me) said that I possessed them. Not where someone else and/or you said that I said that I did."

The reality is not if you said it or not but that you were challenged to provide the metal samples. Meier still kept saying he had metal samples in his possession.
"I asked him if I could see a metal sample, he agreed but I never got round to seeing it." Matthew Hurley April 2004

"On March 15, 2004, the IIG, CFI-West, and the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) challenged Michael Horn to produce some alleged extraterrestrial metal for scientific analysis. If it's found to be otherworldly, Billy Meier could be eligible to meet the IIG and JREF Paranormal Challenges -- with a combined prize total of over One Million Dollars! But, we still haven't seen the metal..."
www.iigwest.com...

So Meier had the metals in his possession in April and after a long time discussing with Randi in March 2004 this is what you are coming up with?

"Professional Skeptics Group Proves UFOs. Real! Organization expected to retract defamatory claims, facilitate $1,000,000 award to Swiss man. by. Michael Horn" ........... of course none of this is true and how does that prove is real again?

So why didn't you go to Meier? He had (and still has presently) the metal samples when you were challenged. Why you didn't get them tested and make a million bucks? Wouldn't that prove the Meier case is real? All of us here would like to know why you didn't and why you will never even try. It is simple to end the Meier myth, it's in your power to do it right now if you wanted to, but you don't. Are you afraid of the results? If they tested one of his metals in present time, do you not want to know what the consequences would be? of course you don't....

It does not matter how long your next post will be after this (we all know they don't really address any of the issue, but a long post look like it has answers right?), in no way possible are you going to get out of this one. You are still on time, go and get the metal (Meier still has it) and you will prove that all skeptics are wrong.

Can you?

I thought so!!! It wouldn’t be in your best interest, would it?


[edit on 26-4-2007 by MANNYP4]

How amusing, people who haven't read/seen the Vogel analysis of the metal (is this now the metal thread?) want to jump up and down, make demands that they think need to be taken seriously and pretend that even the same answers would satisfy them.

Let me run this by the thinkers here, let's say that several scientists tested the metals and came up with similar analyses to Vogel. Wow, that sure would be a slam dunk, wouldn't it?

No. Even if this presumed group came up with the same findings, to a person, the key question would be, "So, are you willing then to stake your reputation on saying that these metals were made by...extraterrestrials?"

Does anyone here know of any scientist today, who values their funding and reputation, who's going to say that? If you answered yes, then you know nothing about the depth of the Meier investigation and the major scientific institutions that, even when they offered cooperation in the testing process, had the investigators sign non-disclosure agreements so that they may NEVER disclose the participation of those parties.

Check the article at my site titled Scientific Experts' Comments regarding those few who did speak out and what they had to say.

And allow me to say that no matter how long or demanding YOUR response may be, neither Meier, nor anyone connected to the case, is interested in jumping through hoops to provide more "proof" for superficially interested parties.

The evidence and information in the case is well known now. Make up your own minds as to its validity and meaning in YOUR life.

It changes nothing in my life. Billy Meier/Nancy Leider. Two sides of the same coin. Neither one of them is going to save mankind or the planet.

[edit on 4-26-2007 by groingrinder]

P.S. Take it one step further. Suppose that the analysis came up the same and, whether the scientists would cop to the ET premise or not, you drew the same logical conclusion: not made by any technology (still/yet) available to people on earth.

Would that suddenly propel you to take the information in the case seriously, or would the next demand be made? Heck, why not just go and try to reproduce the freely available sound recordings that...no one here will be able to? Maybe it's too easy, i.e. it would shut the demanding skeptics up and maybe that's why, no matter how many times I offer it up, the offer is ignored or refused.

So, since some skeptics think that they are in the position to make demands regarding the metal, and everything else, how's about this? Go duplicate the sounds first. And you might just want to read the sound analysis document, and other info in the Investigative Reports, so you have a working idea of just what that means.

And getting back to the information, if something could conceivably encourage you to study the Meier material, why not go ahead and do it anyway? If NOTHING could encourage you to do so - and the information and teachings are at the core of the case - then why even bother discussing it...let alone making insincere demands?

that pic is utter bunk.

[edit on 4-27-2007 by Springer]

Instead of a long post you made 2 separate and made them look short and still they don't address the questions. typical!!!!

It was not a demand it was a "CHALLENGE" that was made to you from randi (we all thought you like challenge since you always make them too) and I was simple asking a question.

So why didn't you go to Meier? He had (and still has presently) the metal samples when you were challenged. Why you didn't get them tested and make a million bucks? Wouldn't that prove the Meier case is real?

2 posts and you didn't respond to anything instead you did your typical running around the bush. I expected it anyway!!!

"It does not matter how long your next post will be after this (we all know they don't really address any of the issue, but a long post look like it has answers right?), in no way possible are you going to get out of this one. You are still on time, go and get the metal (Meier still has it) and you will prove that all skeptics are wrong." Did I just predict something here and came true?

And for the record you did say recently (2007) in a radio interview that meier sill have metals sample but that "He doesn't want to bother with" Of all the lame excuses that has to be the worst.

Back to the topic , lets say that the ray gun is real. If someone duplicate the photo with a similar ray gun would that mean that is a fake? isn't that your analogy in this case, if you can't duplicate a photo then it's real?
Have you read your own posts and think about the things you write?
Can you duplicate Jritzmann photos? because if you can't using your own analogy then they must be real.

Ofr those who really are interested in the details of the case and the investigation into, I received this response from Wendelle about the lithogrpahs:

Dear Michael:

First of all, I made the lithographs.

All of Meier's original photographs were 35mm color slide transparencies, photograpahed on ASA 100 color positive slide transparency film. Billy had some color internegatives made and so did I. I selected 25 of the best of the best positive slide transparencies and Bernadette Brand drove me and took them to a professional developer who made the best professional copy negatives, made on about 3"x5", but in millimeter size, color film negatives. We waited for the studio to make the copies and then took the originals back to Billy. He also had copy negatives made of others in his files.

I brought those copy negatives back and had color prints made, which we studied in the various studios.

I also had 4 color positive to positive prints made in Switzerland, which were the four prints we tested exhaustively in all the studio facilities in the big companies we went to.

They all always wanted us to leave the prints with them to continue to study, but we needed them for the next tests and could not leave any, or there could be no more testing. We did allow them to rephotograph them for their own further research, and for those who were not so equipped we decided to give them good lithographs to keep. That is how we got into the lithographing, which ultimately lead to the remarkable coffee table picture book. We never intended to write any book, but this project just came together as the lithographs were being prepared by a printer and the book resulted.

I do not know of any 1200 photographs of the Beamships. When I was going there in 1977 and 1978, all of the Beamship photographs had been taken in 1975 and 1976. Billy actually snapped over 500 photographs during that time, but he never saw some 100 of them that were "lost" in processing or in the mail to or from the developer. More were lost in his household and were taken by friends when there was no control over the pictures as was the case when I first got there. Some had been stolen in a break-in into his home while all were away one day.

To Billy the pictures of the Beamships were incidental to the teachings by the Pleiadians, and were not to him the most important thing about what was happening. They were of more interest to me than the teachings, and so I tried to get them under control. I bought two plastic photo albums and after supper that day pulled them from under my seat and handing them to Billy said, "You have got to get those photographs under control. Here are some albums." He handed them to his 10 year old daughter and 8 year old son and said, "Go put the photos in the albums." The retrieved what they could find and put them in the slots in the pages just as they found them, in no particular order, and including everything like the tractor, the car, people, the dog and all.

Not knowing much about the color separation negatives and how they should have been handled (with lint free white cotton gloves on hands and breathing masks over the mouth) those four color separation negatives for each picture were easily contaminated by the printer, and resulted in flaws which Kal Korff pointed out as proof that the photos were faked, which they certainly were not.

I hope this is enough for now.

Regards,

Wendelle

[edit on 27-4-2007 by Michael12]

Originally posted by Michael12
I do not know of any 1200 photographs of the Beamships. When I was going there in 1977 and 1978, all of the Beamship photographs had been taken in 1975 and 1976. Billy actually snapped over 500 photographs during that time, but he never saw some 100 of them that were "lost" in processing or in the mail to or from the developer. More were lost in his household and were taken by friends when there was no control over the pictures as was the case when I first got there. Some had been stolen in a break-in into his home while all were away one day.

the dog didn't eat any of them? How odd.

Originally posted by Michael12
To Billy the pictures of the Beamships were incidental to the teachings by the Pleiadians, and were not to him the most important thing about what was happening.

Aliens are landing and taking me on trips to the era of dinosaurs, they're showing me things about our future that will astound you, they're here and they come often and they have a message. Screw the whole proof of them being here thing and listen to my message and then give me 7% of your monthly earnings.

Listen, when aliens come to you, and they have earth shattering messages to pass along, it might help to validate the source of the message so that people will have no choice but to listen.

Billy chose a route that sounds more like a cult than a conduit.

How did

C) Furthermore, in accordance with a resolution passed at the Passive Group General Conference on May 9th, 1992, a mandatory annual contribution of 7% of one (1) month?s salary must be made.

become

Originally posted by Crakeur
Screw the whole proof of them being here thing and listen to my message and then give me 7% of your monthly earnings.

?

You're twisting words around. In this case multiplying by 12 the cost of Passive Group Membership.

Dear ConspiracyNut23,

That's how disinformation and sowing dissension works. Obfuscation of the established facts, always raising the bar, "well, what about this", half-baked "challenges", etc.

Now imagine this, and much worse for 30+ years - including nearly two dozen attempts on the man's life - and you might get an idea of the level of threat to the status quo that the Meier case poses. And this level of consciousness, if one can call it that, is why the parties supplying the information in this case have said that earth people will have several hundred years, alot of it a hell of our own making, to get through until we become what they call "true human beings".

And contact with more evolved beings will only take place in the distant future when we've cured ourselves of the rabid, uncontrollably aggressive, homicidal and suicidal tendencies that are now at epidemic proportions on this planet.

I'm assuming the tithe is monthly, how else to maintain all the upkeep in a place that apparently needs a cleaning (per the link about one man's visit to the Meier home)?

If it is only one month, who picks the month? I make nothing in some months and plenty in other months. Can I automatically get in with my zero salary month? I'm guessing that would be a big no.

Your assumption is incorrect.

One obvious answer is that if you want to be in and help support a group...you average your yearly income.

Your question is insincere. And, since you have no intention of joining such a group, and your attitude is distrustful and conspiratorial, I suggest finding something more to your liking.

Originally posted by Michael12
Your question is insincere. And, since you have no intention of joining such a group, and your attitude is distrustful and conspiratorial, I suggest finding something more to your liking.

But your cult sounds so fun.

Besides, I want to see the metal alloy and the tinfoil suit

Originally posted by Michael12

No. Even if this presumed group came up with the same findings, to a person, the key question would be, "So, are you willing then to stake your reputation on saying that these metals were made by...extraterrestrials?"

Does anyone here know of any scientist today, who values their funding and reputation, who's going to say that?

I know more than one scientist who would LOVE to be able to announce to the world they have, in their hand, irrefutable PROOF of alien intelligence by way of a manipulated (manufactured) non terrestrial piece of metal!

Come on, if it's really extra terrestrial it's PROVABLE beyond a shadow of a doubt so where is the risk in that? Why would a scientist not want to be part of that? The reward is instant world wide recognition of the fact there is intelligent life "out there" and the verifier of that would be lauded as a hero.

We have pieces of asteroids that are extra terrestrial, nobody is shying away from those.

I would imagine IF any genuine research institutes looked at this stuff they required NDAs because of the images like the one in the original post of this thread.

Springer...

Hey Springer,
Just have them scientist buy that cd from his site.

I agree with ya all the way on this one Spring.

Originally posted by Springer

I know more than one scientist who would LOVE to be able to announce to the world they have, in their hand, irrefutable PROOF of alien intelligence by way of a manipulated (manufactured) non terrestrial piece of metal!


Springer...

Originally posted by WhiteWash

Is there anyone here that in reading the context of John's post saw any indication that it was meant as humor?

Some people just have bad timing on jokes whitewash. But yes I can see where he was joking. I just think you didnt expect it to be jokingly because Mr. Lear isnt the joking type usually, at least from the posts I have seen of his. Just my $0.02

Originally posted by Springer
I know more than one scientist who would LOVE to be able to announce to the world they have, in their hand, irrefutable PROOF of alien intelligence by way of a manipulated (manufactured) non terrestrial piece of metal!

I’d say such a scientist would instantly be labeled a quack and a fraud. His methods and experiments would be called unscientific. Let’s not forget the extensive cover-up.

And oh ya, the rocks would most likely disappear.


[edit on 27/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]