Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by Michael12
Contact #115, October 19, 1978

Semjase:
...

37. Due to murder and forced mass suicide, about 200 children and approximately 1,023 adults will find their death, while of all these, however, only a number of approximately 1,000 will still be found.
38. This drama will take place in Jonestown, a settlement in Guyana, named after the megalomania- and consciousness-damaged sectarian leader, Jim Jones, who emigrated to Guyana with a large portion of his fanatic and by hypnosis influenced followers, and established a settlement there, where he keeps his believers like slaves.

WOW!

Now this is extremely specific! (Mass suicide = November 18) I ask again, is there any way I can get my hands on the full text of contact 115? (free or not, English or German)

I really need to check it out for myself. Also, I recall reading something about it, but how does Meier assure his readers that his prophecies were made before the fact. (deposit at Library of Congress or something like that?)

In other words, how can we be sure that his prediction of October were not added after the event?

If this is real, I can see why you care little for debating laser guns and dinosaurs. How specific is he about the eruption of Mount St Helens 3 years later? Can you post that text?

BTW: How did you become Billy Meier’s rep? It seems like James Randi is wondering the same thing. However, his article about you is so full of libel/hatred that I care little in linking to it.


[edit on 23/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by x08

Mr. Lear > I find you a very interesting person. While I have not yet come to my own conclusion about your credibility, you do seem very knowledgable about a lot of the topics discussed here.

I will personally admit that I agree with a couple of your theories (cities on the dark side of the moon), while disagreeing with others (breathable atmosphere on the moon - how could it replenish the oxygen in the air without trees?)...

There is an abundance of vegetation on the far side which can be seen on numerous photos that have been posted in John Lears Moon Photos on ATS and thelivingmoon.com. NASA was very careful to limit the photos available in color to the public to avoid giving them the impression that this might be true. But careful examination of the pictures that we have posted will reveal the fact that there is vegetation.

The near side, the side that we see is barren of any vegetation for a specific reason and that reason is so that we will assume that the far side is the same as the near side and thus assume that there is no vegetation there either.

The far side of the moon is an amazing and beautiful place. I often wonder who made it, who brought it here and who else lives there.

The complete text is in Wendelle Stevens' book, MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES, Vol. 2, page 353. If you can't find the book online (they're now collector's items) we do have it on a CD at www.theyfly.com.

Here's a quote from Stevens about this contact:

"I have had the Contact Notes for 19 October 1978 (Meier’s 115th contact) in my possession since 9 March 1979, since before many of the items just mentioned had occurred. During this time I showed them to two trusted people, Major Rudolph Pestalozzi, USAF (Ret.) and Mr. O. Richard Norton, former director of the Flandreau Planetarium in Tucson, Arizona. This paper listed those events in their correct order and extends the predictions into our near future. We have promised to observe the ban on release of any information on future events until they happen. I should perhaps point out here that the Plejarans made these predictions on 19 October 1978. The 14th Moon of Jupiter (1979 J1) was discovered in October of 1979 from Voyager Mission photographs taken on 8 July 1979 by Voyager 2. The 15th Moon (1979 J2) discovered in May of 1980 was found on photographs taken by Voyager 1 on 5 March 1979. It can safely be stated that the Plejarans told Meier that there are in fact 17 Moons of Jupiter, but that it would be many months before we discover the next ones. They also observed that there are still 2 more planets in our solar system still to be discovered, both beyond Pluto and one well beyond."

He also has more commentary on the specific prophesies in the book, as well as a lot of info on the photo analysis, etc.

I'd have to look for the info Mt. St. Helens later. It may also interest you to know that in Switzerland they have volumes of Meier's Contact Notes in books - with clippings from newspapers of the predicted events inserted, it's mind-boggling.

I became the rep by...asking to do it. My terms were that I would present the info exactly as they wanted it, providing that I could also be free to disagree, present my own differing opinion, etc. - which I have on a couple of occasions. And that they wouldn't pay me, I would do it voluntarily, and that ultimately I would focus on getting the spiritual information out. So your comment about the ray gun and the dinosaur photos is right on the mark.

As far as Randi goes, I can, what did Clinton say..."feel his pain." After all, his affiliated organization CFI-West/IIG claimed that Meier's UFO photos and films were an easily duplicated hoax and accepted my challenge, in 2001, to duplicate just one of each. They failed. They claimed that their photos of a model UFO "duplicated the EFFECT" of Meier's, which means nothing. There are sci-fi movies that can "duplicate an effect". But having your photos subjected to the same testing as Meier's is something else, something they refused to do. And, of course, neither they nor anyone else has submitted a UFO film or video that competes with Meier's.

And shortly after the rep from CFI-West was thrown off of Art Bell's show for refusing to submit their photos for analysis, Randi withdrew his claim that the Meier case is a hoax.

It seems Randi's attempt to discredit Meier backfired and he unintentionally ended up endorsing his ufo evidence. After all, who should know better how to deceive people than a magician, so if Randi can't produce the kind of fake photos that can deceive expert analysts then that indicates that Meier's photos and videos are authentic. If photographic evidence cannot be shown to be false by those with expertise in photo analysis, it is tantamount to saying the photos are authentic.

I've always found Randi to be a detestable man. He seems as though he enjoys destroying or trying to destroy the good name of others. I think he tries to debunk evidence more to discredit people than to expose any presumed frauds or hoaxes. There's an evil aura about the man.

Of course, logically, simply because somebody can create a photo that looks like another photo means nothing.

This is a common logical fault among skeptics that if a photo or effect can be apparently duplicated in some way, that implies that the original photo or effect was indeed created that way.

That being said, as is often pointed out here, proving a negative is impossible, and simply because a photo is not proven to be hoaxed is by no means the same thing as saying that it's true or real or somehow "verified by experts." It just means that the possible method of hoaxing (if it exists) is still undiscovered.

After all, I can create a very nice little flying saucer balloon and float it into the sky, and a photo will show an actual, real flying saucer floating in the sky. No photo analysis would show it to be fake, because it wouldn't be fake. It would be a real photo of a real thing. Just because the photo analysts didn't know how I faked it doesn't mean that it wasn't faked. Get it?

As for the ray gun photos... It appears to be a real, physical object of some kind. No debate about that. What is it, though? The only way to prove any kind of authenticity about the claims that it is a ray gun that can shoot a hole through a tree is to have the actual ray gun examined by impartial investigators and available for study to see if it works as advertised. That's simple, positive proof.

However, if the gun is unavailable for some reason (the reason doesn't really matter), then you can either stick the whole story in the "unverified" file and forget about it, or you can choose to believe that it's real and would be proven so if the aliens hadn't taken it away.

In my opinion, however, if you do the latter, you're a sucker. There are huge churches built all around the world by people who choose to believe crazier things than that. Suckers all, as far as I'm concerned.

[edit on 23-4-2007 by SuicideVirus]

Originally posted by Michael12
Gazrok,



This will give some answers to the reasonable questions about the gun and the gold foil outfit. And for those who really like to think and reason, look at the 1977 picture of Meier with the gun (there's also a video of him with it) and get a sense of the relatively stark environment that existed on the property at the time. Does anyone think that the gold foil suit, with the silver-looking bracelet, was an affordable priority had it even been available to Meier?

And for those that really like to think back in 1977 those gold or silver foil outfits were so easy to get and sometimes FREE with a diet plan. You would wear them to sweat to lose weight. Billy's claims are a joke and so are the ones above. Yes Billy could afford free, and yes it was a worldwide fad.

I recognized that foil suit immediately as my mother, her sister, and my grandmother had one and I even played with them. So for that foil suits that is where they could have come from. In my opinion that is where they Did come from.

Originally posted by Michael12

I'd have to look for the info Mt. St. Helens later. It may also interest you to know that in Switzerland they have volumes of Meier's Contact Notes in books - with clippings from newspapers of the predicted events inserted, it's mind-boggling.

A whole time back (20 years), I remember to have read in a family magazie about the Meier case here in Switzerland. Was not that believable to me also then also when I very much liked the idea. The case poped up and wanished at least I didn't saw a lot of articles about the case with the passing years here, though I have to confess that I didnt read this or simular family magazines.

So if you have more specific information about where to find the volumes of information especially such to verify when the specifics predictions have been done and in it's original text I would welcome that.
So far I found nothing that would verify the date. The predictions I read on the net seems more specific up to the date today and lose ever specific point for the future. So I doubt that this were made when stated.
There is a lot and repetitive talk about evil religon and sekts/cults etc. All uninteresting and not well perusable.

For those that can read German I found an interesting and long article
about the Billy Meier history, according to this article very hoax, case:

fischinger.alien.de...

I couldn't read it all at the moment, but did a fast pre read, it is very interesting and telling!! So worth to read.
I am sorry that it is not written in english so you all can read it. :/
But I can not change that. It's too interesting to not post it.

Originally posted by MicheleLee

And for those that really like to think back in 1977 those gold or silver foil outfits were so easy to get and sometimes FREE with a diet plan. You would wear them to sweat to lose weight.

Thanks for the post MicheleLee, you sound very well informed. Regarding those gold and silver foil outfits did they all come with the diet plan? Or were they sold separate from the diet plan? You say "Sometimes" free with a diet plan, when were they free and when were they not free? And when they were not free how did one purchase or acquire them?

And could you please tell us the name of the diet plan? Also do you have any photos of your mother and her sister and grandmother in these foil suits? Tha would make a great photograph and even add a bit of credibility to your story.

Billy's claims are a joke and so are the ones above. Yes Billy could afford free, and yes it was a worldwide fad.

There are many people that would agree with your statements that Billys' claims were a joke but I am not one of them. I think he was for real. But as soon as I can get the name of the diet plan I can check out your story.

I recognized that foil suit immediately as my mother, her sister, and my grandmother had one and I even played with them. So for that foil suits that is where they could have come from. In my opinion that is where they Did come from.

You played with the foil suits? That is interesting.

Thanks again for the post.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
After all, I can create a very nice little flying saucer balloon and float it into the sky, and a photo will show an actual, real flying saucer floating in the sky. No photo analysis would show it to be fake, because it wouldn't be fake. It would be a real photo of a real thing. Just because the photo analysts didn't know how I faked it doesn't mean that it wasn't faked. Get it?

I don't think any professional photo-analyst is going to mistake a balloon of a saucer for an actual saucer. If you tried such a hoax it would fool nobody in that field. Of course the photo would be authentic, but it would be an authentic photo of a balloon.

Originally posted by johnlear
Tha would make a great photograph and even add a bit of credibility to your story.

I'm usually pretty productive when hitting the ol' Google. But wouldn't ya' know it? Here in the land of tinfoil hats....I can't find a single decent image of one them old weight loss suits.

Pointless effort anyway. I can't discount the posters recollections simply because of the lack of Internet documentation. The credibility of her story is not the focus of this thread.

The point of this thread being the credibility of that "ray gun" (specifically referred to as a "laser weapon" by Billy), and by association, the weight loss suit worn by the model in the photo.

About all I could find so far.
Lost in space cast member.
There are apparently some fire-resistant foil type suits out there, but not looking like the meier alien suits.

Originally posted by johnlear


Thanks for the post MicheleLee, you sound very well informed. Regarding those gold and silver foil outfits did they all come with the diet plan? Or were they sold separate from the diet plan? You say "Sometimes" free with a diet plan, when were they free and when were they not free? And when they were not free how did one purchase or acquire them?

Oh your so very welcome Mr. Lear I am glad I could raised your eyebrow as its an honor. I have no clue if ALL diet plans came with the suit, but it was a suit to wear while working out to help melt off the pounds. Example of these today are called "Sauna Suits" and the ones my family were using they looked like crushed Liquid gold lame' fabric. (crushed as if they were just rolled or pushed into a drawer and the result is major wrinkles) Here is an example:
Modern Silver Sauna Suit
Another Silver suit

And could you please tell us the name of the diet plan? Also do you have any photos of your mother and her sister and grandmother in these foil suits? Tha would make a great photograph and even add a bit of credibility to your story.

I was still only under ten yrs old and it was not very cool back that for a child under ten yrs old to diet or exercise for weight loss so I wouldn't know the author, diet name, or maker of the suit. I do however know it was a pretty cool suit at that age.

There are many people that would agree with your statements that Billys' claims were a joke but I am not one of them. I think he was for real. But as soon as I can get the name of the diet plan I can check out your story.

I do not think a sauna suit will ever prove any of Billy's claims as real to those that do believe him. Sorry, I am not the one that has the smoking gun on this. In my opinion that suite looks like a crushed sauna suit. I did try to see what I could come up with for you, and I did call my mother whom is still alive and she said to me "Michele what the heck are you asking me about something over 30 yrs ago. I can agree with her that her a diet plan and melting those pounds away just wasn't something worth remembering. I cannot provide that information for you, but my memory was fond indeed.

You played with the foil suits? That is interesting.

LOL, Yes Mr. Lear. I did just like most children would have played with their parents cool things when they were a young child.

Thanks again for the post.

Why your very welcome. I am glad I had this chance to chat with you

1971 ad for a sauna suit (bottom left)

www.prestoimage.com...

Edit: Price - $3.56 ?

[edit on 23-4-2007 by Dulcimer]

I have been paying close attention to this thread from the start and cannot believe just how immature some members are acting. Its simple if you don't believe in the Billy Meier case state your reasons why and so be it, there's absolutely no reason to be rude or childish about the matter. I was really surprised to hear Mr Lear's sexually discriminative comments, id honestly though you where above that Mr Lear .

If i could ask Mr Horn 2 questions that would be great.

1. Could you tell me more about the 40 odd people that where killed getting this Talmud Jmmanuel to billy ?

2. Also about this machine billy was given the plans to that could cure most health proplems thats discussed in the contact notes ?

The photos are 90% of this case, i can only suggest read the information out there.

Originally posted by helium3
Ir. I was really surprised to hear Mr Lear's sexually discriminative comments, id honestly though you where above that Mr Lear .

Then you were honestly wrong Helium3. In the middle 70's I was writing for Air Classics, a monthly magazine. I wrote about flying, street fighting in Beirut, the Bridge over the River Kwai, some of my adventures and one story called 4 Beige Stripes. It was about the first flight of a Boeing 707 with a woman in command. I don't think you would have liked it.

Hmm. Mr. Lear? Run your theories by Mr. Meier sometime and see what kind of treatment you'll receive. Be sure to make it comprehensive and backed up by your own research and opinions. My guess is that you'll be disappointed but by all means keep supporting the guy.
Ah, the Meier case. Glad I don't spend so much time on it these days.
*insert army solliciting quote*

Regarding the people killed getting the TJ to Billy, I don't know the actual number. Probably a lot if you consider the people killed in the raids by the Israelis on the refugee camp in Lebanon where Isa Rashid took refuge and hid the scrolls. Then Rashid and his family (I don't know how many people all together) were assassinated, allegedly by the Israelis, in Baghdad.

Regarding the machine, it was my understanding that Meier didn't want to get involved in it because of possible misuse, theft, etc. I could be incorrect in my recollection of the reasons but I may ask him again.

Regarding proving the ray gun is real, or proving the case is real because of the ray gun, etc. doesn't work. I think that one considers all of the evidence and decides for oneself if it "proves" something to them. As we know, the same evidence, witnesses, facts, etc. can, and often are, interpreted differently by different people, as one of our friends here referred to the jury system, which exemplifies the point.

I clearly state that while the specific, abundant, irreproducible physical and prophetic information has led me to conclude that the case is authentic, I cannot say that everything in it is true, since I have no way of proving that (even to myself). I divide the case into that which I consider factually true and that which I consider speculative. I certainly have seen more and more of Meier's information be proven true through discovery or occurrence - after he published the information.

And a more important question than is everything in the case true is, IF the case is true...what does it mean to you?

I propose that if there really is some 55+ years worth of specific, prophetically accurate information, we owe it - to ourselves and our descendants - to seriously consider that which pertains to the present and the future, as well as the specific suggestions as to how to avoid the worst of it.

Thanks Mr Horn for the answers, i just think its beneficial to look at the Meier case 100% before i make my mind up either way. I have a mate that is translating the TJ and other works relating the Billy Meier case into English from German, some of the things he has told me are mind blowing to say the least if true. After hearing some of whats in those contact notes...etc the Meier photo's become to a certain point irrelevant.

What is really funny, is that any alien smart enough to comprehend our culture could wear slightly corny outfits and never worry about being photographed. Perhaps the real method they use to shoot holes in trees is done by thought activation with tools that are not even visible, so they made a gun that humans would recognize as a gun. We have video cameras that look like a button. I bet they have blasters that look like a button

You can't believe Billy Mier, not even in THIS forum. Even if it is a true story, he has TOO MUCH going against him.
Sorry Mr.Lear.
So, C'mon Billy believers, attack my tired grammer at 2:55 am, I have had a long day.
If he is telling the truth, far out, though, if one wants some credibility, STEER CLEAR of him, he will make you look stupid to the common person.