Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by Michael12
The complete text is in Wendelle Stevens' book, MESSAGE FROM THE PLEIADES, Vol. 2, page 353. If you can't find the book online (they're now collector's items) we do have it on a CD at www.theyfly.com.

Good stuff Thanks Michael. My friend has tons of UFO books (online and off) and I hope I can find this one amongst his possessions.

Could you clarify on how Mr. Meier assures his readers/followers that his predictions were made before the fact? For example, Mr. Wendelle only received the predictions in March of the following year, so the Jonestown prediction, despite its incredible precision could have been added after. I’m sure Mr. Meier has a system so that his predictions can be validated. (like a deposit at the Library of Congress, or its swiss equivalent)

It may also interest you to know that in Switzerland they have volumes of Meier's Contact Notes in books - with clippings from newspapers of the predicted events inserted, it's mind-boggling.

It does. And indeed, it must be quite mind-boggling.

...When I look at the photo of a raygun, I see "a piece of crap"
wrapped in aluminum foil...And It really bothers me that someone wants
me to believe that it's real !

Heck, if someone can get people to believe that...Well then., all kind of
Disinfo should really be no problem at all...

And, ya know... "I [really] want to believe."

[edit on 24-4-2007 by cosmokatt7]

Those pics are real...
















pictures of my toys. And do you know how many candy bars I had to eat to get that much gold foil!

The TJ (Talmud Jmmanuel) is quite amazing and also has some stunning prophetic information, including several specific things that didn't occur until years after it was published. It was originally discovered in 1963 and the first German translation came out in 1978.

Meier started to publish the Contact Notes in 1975, disseminating them to people close to him and to others in Europe. A woman named Lou Zinnstag started getting them around that time and soon after sent some on to Wendelle Stevens, around 1977. Generally, after Meier types them out they're read and witnessed by one of the group members. But one of the safeguards for authenticity was incorporated from the start, i.e. the numbering of the sentences allegedly spoken by the ETs.

Meier asked why he had to go to the trouble to do this and was told that, in the future, people would accuse him of being a fraud and going back and inserting the information that would prove to be prophetically accurate. To establish the authenticity, Meier would number each sentence, spoken by each of them, in each contact. In this way, he was told, every copy of the Contact Notes - in every language - would have the same information in the same sentences, etc. And the fact that they would be widely disseminated would also help.

Of course, they also were reproduced in Wendelle Stevens' books and in other books.

Regarding the Jonestown information, this is true but most of the other predictions hadn't occurred when Wendelle first had the notes. That's also why he got two other trusted professional acquaintances to read and sign off on them.

The Jupiter information is among the most specific and detailed info in that particular contact. One skeptic spent several days in a library and online trying to prove that Meier and Stevens MUST have conspired to hoax it - but was unable to.

Just had nott to do much else so I translated some interesting text parts out of this long german page:

fischinger.alien.de...

Als "schwer-erziehbarer Junge" kam
er sogar nach Albisbrunn in eine Erziehungsanstalt, aus der er aber
mehrfach floh. Später entwickelte er sich weiter und wurde von der Polizei
wegen Fälschung und Gaunerei verhaftet, ..

As dificult to educate boy he was delivered to Albisburnn into an 'education center' but he escaped from there a number of times.
Later he developed further and was arrested for fakeing and trickering..

Dafür erfahren wir aber, daß die
Mitglieder des Semjase Silver Star Center angehalten werden, 10 Prozent
oder mehr ihres Einkommens an Billy Meier abzuführen bzw zu spenden, wie
Meier-Fan Simone den beiden Amerikanern steckte.

..but we got told that the members of the Semjase Silver Star Center was 'laying close' to spend 10 precent of their income
to Billy Meier how a Meier-Fan Simone told the two americans.

Doch Kal und Linda
hatten ja am 19.August 1991 mit Zeugin Claudia Jacob reden können und sie
erinnerte sich an jenen besonderen Tag im April 1975: "Wir standen
stundenlang da draußen herum und warteten. Wir sahen kein Schiff kommen,
nichts geschah. Und dann kam Billy ein paar Tage später mit seinem Film und
zeigte uns die Bilder, wonach das Semjase-Raumschiff über uns geflogen sein
soll und nur von ihm gesehen wurde! Dies ließ ernsthafte Zweifel bei meinem
Vater über Billy Meier und das was er erzählt aufkommen. Ich weiß: Wir
standen da, ich stand da - und da war kein Schiff."
Eine methodische Untersuchung der ganzen Sequenz zeigt auf, daß es sich
hierbei um gewollte Doppelbelichtungen handelte und sie nicht dem Zufall
entspringen.

Kal and Linda talked to Claudia Jacob in 19.August 1991 and were told about that special day in april 1975:
We were standing there for hours and waited. We saw no ship comming and nothing happened. Few days later Billy showed us pictures wherein
the Semjase-Spaceship was flying over our heads and was only seen by him! (Meier). This raised serious doubts in my father over Billy Meier
and what he was talking. I know: We stand there , I stand there - and there was no ship!
A methodical analysis of the whole sequence showed, that there were double exposed and not by random..

Am 9.Juli 1975 wurde die Fotoreihe in Fuchsbüel am Hofhalden geknipst -
jene Sequenz ist besonders eindrucksvoll, da die 7-Meter-Semjase-FU einen
Baum sehr nahe umkreist und damit weltweit überhaupt das "beste
UFO-Fotomaterial" aufgrund dieses Umstandes präsentiert!.

In 9.juli 1975 the phot serie in Fuchsbuehl in Hofhalden was shot. This sequence is especially impressive, because the 7 meter Semjase-FU
was cycling a tree very close and becasue of this circumstances was the 'best UFO-Photo material' presented.

...Acht Bilder in vier Minuten also, im Schnitt damit alle 30
Sekunden ein Foto.... Die Wetteramt-Daten
weisen für den angegebenen Zeitpunkt eine Windgeschwindigkeit von gerade
einmal 10 km/h auf. Doch die auf den Meier-Aufnahmen zu sehenden
Wolkenbilder verändern sich absolut drastisch in dieser Zeitspanne und auch
noch während der einzelnen Aufnahmen...

..8 pictures in 4 minutes. In average every 30 seconds one photo... The weather data for that date timepoint showed wind of just 10km/h.
But the cloud formation in the Meier-photos changed very drastical in that timeperiode and also within the single shots..

Will Billy seine Position in Bezug zum Baum
verändert haben, um die Hofhalden-Hügel in den Bildhintergrund zu bekommen,
dann müßte er eine andere Seitenperspektive des Baums erwischt haben,
wodurch sich der Gesamteindruck deutlich verändern würde, was er aber nicht
tut. Die Fotologik stimmt hier schlichtweg nicht mit physikalischen Gegebenheiten überein..

If Billy had changed his position in relation to the tree to have the Hofhalden-Hills in the background then he had to shot a different
side perspective of the tree that changed the overall impression, but that did not happen. The photo -logic doesn't fit with the physical
facts.

Hans Jacob hatte
unmittelbar nach den Fuchsbüel-Aufnahmen den Ort besucht und schon damals
den fraglichen Baum nicht auffinden gekonnt, weshalb er Meier danach fragte
und erklärt bekam, daß der Baum radioaktiv verstrahlt gewesen sei und
deshalb in der Zeit zurückversetzt wurde. ..

Hans Jacob visited the place right after the Fuchsbuel-photos were shot and even back then he could not find that tree. So he asked Meier and Meier explained to him,
that the tree was radioactive and therefore was set back in time! (by the plejaren which is clear when reading the full article)

Die
Aufnahmen entstanden auf dem Grundstück von Herrmann Wyss, der mit seiner
Frau das Land schon seit Jahrzehnten bestellte. Die Familien Wyss und
Jacobs waren bereits seit 24 Jahren miteinander befreundet, als die
weltberühmte und beweislastige UFO-Fotoserie zustandekam. So begleitete
Margrit Jacob Tina und Kal zu den Wysses, damit ihnen die entsprechende
Billy-Fotoserie vorgelegt werden konnte: Hermann Wyss grinste über alle
Backen und schüttelte seinen Kopf - "Nein, diesen Baum gab es niemals."
..

The photos were taken on the ground of Herrmann Wyss, that is farming the land with his wife since years. The family Wyss and Jacobs were friends
since 24 years already when the famous UFO-photo-serie happend. So Margrit Jacob Tina and Kal went to the Wysses to show them the photos.
Hermann Wyss put up a big bright smile and was shaeking his head. "No this tree never existed!"

there is a lot more written and if you read the whole article you have to wonder at the end how anyone can still believe Meier. There is so much wrong and even Billy confesses toward the end:

Am 14.Mai 1998 ging Meier in die Offensive und behauptete nun, daß viele
seiner Bilder von den "Men In Black" gefälscht und ihm untergeschoben
worden sind, was ihm bereits früher von dem Plejadier "Ptaah" angedeutet
worden war, Billy aber schlicht "vergessen" hatte.

In 14.mai 1998 Meier went in the offensive and now claimed that a lot of his pictures where faked
by the MIB's and foist to him, what have him told earlier already by the Plejaren Ptaah but he simple forgot.

I don't have time to read this whole thread carefully right now, but has anybody else heard or mentioned an explanation that it was govt agents who took these pictures? And that they encouraged Meier to pose "just as an illustration" then used them to make him incredible?

True alien contactees who become any kind of known are always at risk of defame, misrepresentation, threats and seduction by the powers who want them silent or silly. It's "very" easy to defame anybody in our societies.

It is my personal experience to know that certain humans can project out of body to meet with others and hold conversations via telepathy, just as the alien people do with their human contacts. Humans with this ability who are working for govt can visit a known alien contactee to pose as his alien contacts in order to try to confuse and discredit the person's own knowledge and information, even to himself.

If one does not recognize his own alien contacts out of body physically well, an unsuspecting contactee could be tricked. Anybody new (alien) trying to make contact with a human is always accompanied by his already-known alien contacts. They all work together, and nobody new shows up out of the blue.

It is my understanding from my own alien contacts, all of them, that Meier was at one time true and honest, at least to his own naturally limited perception, but that he was converged upon early, and tricked, and his information and reputation ruined.

The alien races are not silly. It's just the humans who think of them and present them that way because of how we think of them.







[edit on 4/25/2007 by EarthSister]

Did I miss a reply or rebuttal to this post?

He always seems to forget to answer about the dino picture.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Michael12
That's also why he got two other trusted professional acquaintances to read and sign off on them.

Do you know what date the professionals signed off on them? and who they were? Forgive my persistence, but the precision of the Jonestown prophecy was simply incredible and I'm anxious to learn more. Unfortunately, I can't see how numbering the text proves the date of it's writing. It's handy for reference though.

EDIT: Just found this nugget...

It should be noted that Genesis III published much of the material in volumes 1–4 of Message from the Pleiades, with the earliest copyright being 1979.

www.nexusmagazine.com...

That would mean that the copyright office in whatever country the copyright was filed would most likely have a copy of the Contact Notes!

[edit on 25/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by sandman658
Did I miss a reply or rebuttal to this post?
He always seems to forget to answer about the dino picture.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Don't expect a straight answer. He'll never comment negatively about any aspect of the Meier case nor highlight dubious aspects from the past. He's a snake-oil salesman.

He did give a response to the dino pic a few pages back. He said that it isn't a picture Meier took (which was the original claim I think). Rather, the picture Meier clearly lifted from another source is actually an image the was very similar to what Meier saw.

In other words, to quote George Bush "um, well, um, we ah, um uh, hmmm"

Yes, Maj. Rudolph Pelozzi (USAF) and O. Richard Norton, former director Flandreau Planetarium in Tucson, Arizona. They signed off on them before the end of March 1979, which was long before most of the predictions were fulfilled.

To be accurate about the Genesis III publication, much of the Meier material, from 1975 to 1978, was in their possession in 1978 and certainly 1979. This was when the translations were first being made from the original German. So ALL of the info in those three years worth of information (prophecies and predictions included) was in the possession of Stevens, Lee and Brit Elders.

They included some of the info, quotes from the ETs, in the Contact from the Pleiades coffee table picture book, which was published in 1979. Understanding book publishing, especially in those days, it means that they indeed had to have been putting the book together sometime in 1978, when they were also beginning to translate the information. Wendelle Stevens' four book set was in process at that time as well but took a little longer to get published for several reasons. One, if you look at the books you can see that all the pages were typed out, rather than the more expensive type set process used in the more expensive, glossy (I think it's called offset) printing of the Genesis III books.

Now, the first English translations (apart from Stevens' books) of the (1,800) pages were disseminated in mimeographed form around 1980 and I got them in 1986 from someone who'd already had them for a couple of years. It's important to also remember that each contact was indeed dated and the numbered sentence system WAS/IS a good means for authenticating the documents, especially since they were being disseminated in German BEFORE English and the other languages.

Stevens had received copies in 1976 or 1977, which contained the info up to that time. So the point is that there is a system that, quite simply but cleverly, establishes dates and times of publication.

Let's for a moment go back to the picture of Meier, in the first pages of this thread, where he's hold ing the ray gun. Other photos from this time period - as well as a film we have of Meier's ex-wife and young children - show the same rather barren and modest environment and run down farm house undergoing renovation.

When one gets just what the real conditions Meier and his family were living under, and of which they and others have spoken, including the demands of his raising a family on his disability pension, going on contacts at all times and in all weather conditions, etc. and then starts to intelligently and logically consider the ray gun, the gold foil suit and, more importantly, the growing body of the still irreproducible physical evidence AND the information in the Contact Notes, a reasonable person will not only wonder how a man would be capable of assembling and publishing such a large body of evidence that was completely outside his areas of expertise, technical or financial ability...but why - if he was somehow capable of hoaxing ALL of this - he would be the target of 21 attempts on his life and why he would CONTINUE for the past 30 years to do so despite the attempts.

Despite all cynicism and know-it-all conjecture, there have been NO accomplices or financial or technological assistance ever found or revealed and no great financial gain for Meier, his family or group. He is not an attention seeker, missionary or cult leader and members are not sought out. There is one rather delusional person who wrote me complaining that he wouldn't "join" FIGU because he wouldn't pay them whatever money he thought they would demand of him and that he'd get into an argument in "five minutes" with Meier. This poor fellow is rather unclear on the concept, especially since it's kind of clear that no one would even invite such a person to join a group towards which he was so hostile - and uninformed - in the first place.



[edit on 25-4-2007 by Michael12]

Also, one can find records of the copyrights for Genesis III in the Library of Congress records.


[edit on 25-4-2007 by Michael12]

Originally posted by Michael12
records of the copyrights

For clarity, an official copyright can have any date placed on it.

Originally posted by Michael12
the growing body of the still irreproducible physical evidence

Michael, care to comment on the information at this link? It appears the only existent physical evidence is photos. So what do these comparisons mean in the context of your above quote?

Regarding the copyrights, please understand that books published - and available on the market -- in 1979 clearly were NOT first published in 1989, 1999, 2003, etc. The material in them, in English, obviously had to be translated before the books were published. So, if one thinks about it logically, there is no "conspiracy" here, just simple, easily verifiable information.


As for the IIG photos, easily explained. If anyone had troubled themselves to read the FREE photo analysis document they would understand that small objects (IIG models) photographed close to the camera photograph differently than large objects (Meier's UFOs) a distance from the camera. The parameters and standards for testing these photos are contained in that document and in the Preliminary and Supplementary Investigative Reports by Wendelle Stevens. In addition, the early film "Contact" actually shows some of the photo analysis being done, with focusing on contours, edge enhancement, the number of pixels in the Meier UFOs, etc.

This is why none of the photographers of models, such as IIG, Jeff Ritzmann, etc, will submit their photos for the same testing; the obvious differences between the authentic photos and Meier's will be instantly apparent.

Also, notice the kind of thin tree top that IIG photographed their model against and then see the tree photos at www.theyfly.com... ...including the shot with the UFO next to the barren-branched tree. Also note that six forestry experts identified the trees as full-sized of a specific species. Quite a difference.

So what the IIG photos mean in the context of my quote is...nothing. Nice try but no cigar.

And please note that still existing (and irreproducible) physical evidence is available - FREE - from my site in the form of the sound recordings. You might want to read the sound analysis too before assuming that they're something simple like, say, feedback from a guitar amp.

One man, one-hand, 43 years of still irreproducible evidence, still making people scratch their heads.

Also, I jjust got a copy of an email from Wendelle Stevens to someone asking about the gun (maybe someone who posts here) so I will copy it, clean up a few typos and post it here.

[edit on 25-4-2007 by Michael12]

Originally posted by Michael12
This is why none of the photographers of models, such as IIG, Jeff Ritzmann, etc, will submit their photos for the same testing; the obvious differences between the authentic photos and Meier's will be instantly apparent.

and what is the reasoning behind your not providing negatives and/or the metal that you claim to have?

IIG has, on their site, stated that they asked for these things and you refused. If the metal is real, if the negatives are of what you say they are, why not submit them to the test?

Here's the email from Wendelle:

Dear Scott:
I never saw the "raygun" myself, only the 20 some color photographs
of it.

To me it looked rather hokey, like a compostion toy gun, so we undertook a search to find a copy of it for our own interest. We visited all the toy stores in Meier's part of Switzerland, with the pictures, and inquired of where we might purchase a copy. Nobody ever recognized it, or could give us any leads. We never found anything even resembling it.

When I asked Billy to take me to the place here he stunned a rabbit in mid-jump, he also pointed out a path through the brush where he fired a fine stream or concentration of energy, and it left a seared path, arrow straight through all the bushes to the impact point in the ground of a rise.

Then he pointed up to a tree branch, some 30 feet above, to a point where a 1" branch was cleanly served and said that was another shot. Now this was in a part of the woods where the trees grew so thick and close together that it would have been impossible to get a ten foot ladder through, much less a 30 foot one, and where would one find a 30 foot ladder. If he had one there would have been no place to prop it against to reach that severed branch.

The severed section was still laying on the ground there. What I found interesting is that the charred area was only about 1/8th of an inch in depth. What could burn that cleanly and not char the wood about an inch or more on each side? (I took a piece of it) home with me, intending to get some kind of analysis to determine just how much heat it would have taken to make that kind of a burn.

On the day Nera came to pick up the gun, I came home from the store to find Billy kneeling by his prize plum tree in the front yard. He said I had just missed Neera who came for the gun. He was examining a smoking hole, a little over an inch in diameter, burned into the 11 inch diameter plum tree trunk. the tree sap was still bubbling and smoking form that burn cleanly through the whole diameter of that trunk. The charred depth again was under 1/4 inch deep, and it cleanly penetrated the whole trunk. When it cooled a little, I stuck my finger in that opening and found that the hole was oval in cross section.

Regards,

Wendelle

Please read the last paragraph carefully because Wendelle is describing what he PERSONALLY observed. He has been investigating UFOs since 1947. Perhaps this will satisfy the people who are curious about the ray gun?

Originally posted by Michael12
Please read the last paragraph carefully because Wendelle is describing what he PERSONALLY observed. He has been investigating UFOs since 1947. Perhaps this will satisfy the people who are curious about the ray gun?

Not this one. He never saw the "weapon". Never saw it fired.

He allegedly observed a smoking, slightly oval hole in a tree. Its dramatic to have a situation where "oh, you just missed it!", but to this skeptic....it's far too convenient.

[edit on 25-4-2007 by MrPenny]

Well, sometimes life just isn't fair. After all, when the man says, "...a smoking hole, a little over an inch in diameter, burned into the 11 inch diameter plum tree trunk. the tree sap was still bubbling and smoking form that burn cleanly through the whole diameter of that trunk." he's describing something that he's personally seeing - like the 30' high damage, etc.

But that's why being a skeptic is the same as coming to something with one's mind already made up. Stevens is a trained military observer, something that you may not be. I also know the man and he is straight and honest. Our military trusted him to research the topic starting back in 1947.

BTW, someone her please help me out. Although I consider myself a fairly good researcher - I've been unable to find where I said that I possessed the metal and negatives. Maybe the guy who said I did would show me where I said that?

For those who are observing this thread, please notice the difference between those who, for whatever reasons, want to keep the "controversy" going (and it might be just perfectly understandable in terms of driving traffic to, and keeping it going) on this thread, and those who can reason their way through the information given.

Originally posted by Michael12
BTW, someone her please help me out. Although I consider myself a fairly good researcher - I've been unable to find where I said that I possessed the metal and negatives. Maybe the guy who said I did would show me where I said that?

midway down the page

On Friday, February 27, 2004, the IIG and CFI-West challenged Michael Horn to provide ONE original camera roll of negatives, out of the approximately 1,200 supposed UFO photos taken by Billy Meier, and a small piece of the metal he claims to have come from an extraterrestrial spacecraft as physical evidence for examination.

www.iigwest.com...

I think you misunderstood. Please show me where I (as in little ol' me) said that I possessed them. Not where someone else and/or you said that I said that I did.

After all, if we're going to criticize the work of investigators, researchers, scientists, various exxperts...doncha think that some basic accuracy on the part of the skeptics is in order?

Not too much to ask, is it? Just show me where...I said that.

Thanks.

The Management

[edit on 25-4-2007 by Michael12]