Forest on Mars !?!?

I like Armap because he is from Portugal (i like that nation for some reason)

What's not to like...good food, good drink, good people and great fishing.

Looking at alluvial Xanthe Terra - these tracks are very distinctive.

And again, I am referring to rock that sit on the beginning of curve - uphill. Where are the tracks of that rock - if it came from somewhere?

Originally posted by Orion437
Thanks.

Just found this on that image:

Is there a "boulder" in the left point of that "track"?

It seems that the "boulder" make a right-to-left movement...

The "track" is more "faint / washed / diffused" (sorry language issue") in the "right part/section" of the "track". And the "track" is stronger in the "left part/section" of the "track". That is saying us that the movement started from right to left...but the problem is that, acording to that image, a right to left movement would be uphill ...

Armap what do you think of this?

He did these track

Alien Head - Chryse Planitia ( near Viking1 lander site)
MSSS

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
A pretty good guy, overall (i presume Armap to be male).

Thanks, bigfatfurrytexan.

And yes, I am male.

________________________________________

Originally posted by Orion437

Armap what do you think of this?

I think that the rock came from the right to the left. When it reached the slope, because it not reached the slope at a perfect 90º angle to the place where the slope starts, it started a left turn. Not having its own power, the curve made was a parabola.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, as usual...

No ArMaP you are clear enough for me... the one I was referring to was the one on the moon

Originally posted by zorgon
No ArMaP you are clear enough for me... the one I was referring to was the one on the moon

Oh, that rock.

I still think that that rock did not went up-hill.

PS:
I noticed now that when I say that the rock did not rolled up-hill I mean to say that the rock did not start an up-hill roll. A rock that has enough energy after rolling down from another slope, for example, can climb up-hill for some time, until it uses all of its kinetic energy.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Restraints? What restraints? Do you consider that I am imposing a restraint in my ability to learn because I forgot the reason I considered your post a little offensive?

Your general inability to consider anything contrary to your views seems to mainly as result of self imposed restraints.

I see what you mean, but what I find strange is, if that is water at the South pole, if it was Summer at the time then why didn't that water froze when the Winter came? If it was Winter at the time why wasn't the water frozen?

Because NASA and others are simply lying about the atmospheric data? We have caught them lying about so many others issues so why are you so surprised?

I said it was only with unimportant things...

You do seem perfectly able to remember everything that relates to the conventional view of any given subject.

Do as you like, I do not see knowledge as being an immutable thing,

Neither do i and it's why i spend so much time disproving the 'immutable facts' as defended by the science institutions.

and I do not know if I will be around a few more months, much less a few more years.

How melodramatic. Do you intend to chance your mind about anything while your still grace us with your presence here?

I am able to arrive at conclusions, but that does not mean that my conclusions are the truth,

Any person can arrive at conclusions and the true test of intelligence is whether it is his own or the BBC's/CCN's/Pravdas or , god forbid, his local religious leaders.

that is why I always say, when based only in my conclusions, that I do not really know if something is true or false.

So for all the time you have spent interrupting and objection you do not really know if something is true or false? It's one thing to be uncertain but this does seem a bit cowardly when looking at your actions on this thread.

My opinions correspond with my observations.

Your opinions does not correspond to what you have observed on this thread and i really do not care for opinions that does not even correspond with where the main stream scientist are slowly heading.

I do not like or dislike any conclusion, and what I think I do know does not depend of other people's definition of knowledge but of my definition.

It is quite clear to me that you do favour some conclusions over others , just as i do, and even clearer how much you will deny to arrive at them.

I may have strong enough evidences pointing to a conclusion to make me consider it the most probable explanation to something,

Which is why you seem to consider the main stream view the best chance for being 'right' or at least part of the system?

but I do not consider that I know that the explanation is the real explanation, then I say that I do not know the real explanation.

So it's good enough to just agree with the majority whatever the truth may be?

Do you feel harassed by my posts?
Sorry, my intention is not to harass or bother anyone.

I can not really claim that it's so bad as you are at least attempting to defend generally accepted views and not completely fallacious one's.

I do have opinions but I do not have many convictions, much less of what happens in other planets.

So you do not trust the science data and if that is the case why are you even here?

Maybe because of the effects of my asthma crisis since I was 5 years old I trained myself not to get too excited about anything, that could represent another day at the hospital breathing oxygen through a tube in the nose. That may have made my life a less exciting life, but at least it kept alive (but I am not sure if it was the best option).

That's as good a excuse as i have ever heard. While i am not sure how a excited mind leads to breathing problems i am not going to play at bashing the invalid.

Do you think that the way I post my opinions prevents discussion?

It does not prevent discussion but it does slow it down for no good reason i can see.

Maybe I do not know how to present them, I was never good at writing, much less in a foreign language, but my intentions were never to stop or prevent discussion, and if you really knew me you would know that.

I really would rather have everyone keep posting and learning but some people seem just well enough versed in the English language to defend their point of view and ignore those of others. This on occasion upsets me and i should probably get over it and learn to ignore what they say as efficiently as they ignore what i say.

Do you want me to stop answering your posts? OK, just say so and I will stop and let you free to discuss anything you want.

I would like you to at least address the majority of the questions i ask you and with some lucky to help you change your mind on a few things. Ideally i want everyone to post as much as they can but frankly i don't have all the time in the world and i can't correct all the nonsense i want to. If some of the more ignorant fools on the forum would just shut up i would probably not lose my temper with stubborn, but civilized and educated, people such as yourself. You will have to excuse my occasional outbursts and i will do my best not to read too much into your refusal to acknowledge the volumes of information i have presented...

PS:
My intention, when I joined ATS almost 3 years ago, was to discuss with other people different points of view about many subjects, and in some cases to show other people what people in a different country think about the same or other subjects, and at the same time as a way of trying to improve my English writing skills (I wrote almost nothing in English before I joined ATS, just some posts on newsgroups and some e-mails).

To anyone:
If I am bothering, harassing and/or getting in the way of the spirit of ATS then just say it and I am out of here.

Argh!@#$#% The drama! Don't leave, please?

Stellar

Originally posted by ArMaP
I noticed now that when I say that the rock did not rolled up-hill I mean to say that the rock did not start an up-hill roll. A rock that has enough energy after rolling down from another slope, for example, can climb up-hill for some time, until it uses all of its kinetic energy.

Ah HA!!! So you can change your tune... now we have you half way there

At least you can see ONE way it could be moving uphill...

Originally posted by zorgon
Ah HA!!! So you can change your tune... now we have you half way there

At least you can see ONE way it could be moving uphill...

It's not a change of tune, I thought that this way of moving up-hill its so obvious that you must be talking about any other way.

Originally posted by blue bird

Looking at alluvial Xanthe Terra - these tracks are very distinctive.

And again, I am referring to rock that sit on the beginning of curve - uphill. Where are the tracks of that rock - if it came from somewhere?

Where is the largest image, or highest res image, of this scene you have? I do not think i am working off as good a picture as you guys.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
A pretty good guy, overall (i presume Armap to be male).

Thanks, bigfatfurrytexan.

And yes, I am male.

________________________________________

Originally posted by Orion437

Armap what do you think of this?

I think that the rock came from the right to the left. When it reached the slope, because it not reached the slope at a perfect 90º angle to the place where the slope starts, it started a left turn. Not having its own power, the curve made was a parabola.

That explanation doesnt fit too well, i don´t know.

Originally posted by StellarX
Your general inability to consider anything contrary to your views seems to mainly as result of self imposed restraints.

I am not aware of any self imposed restraint, and the fact that I have accepted things contrary to my views in other occasions during my life makes me think that I do not have any restraint of that type.

Because NASA and others are simply lying about the atmospheric data? We have caught them lying about so many others issues so why are you so surprised?

I am not basing my doubts on NASA data, I just find it strange that, if it was Winter, there could be liquid water surrounded by a large ice area without freezing, and if it was Summer when the "water" was in its liquid state then why should it disappear in the Winter.

You do seem perfectly able to remember everything that relates to the conventional view of any given subject.

As I said, if I find it important enough I most probably will remember it.

Neither do i and it's why i spend so much time disproving the 'immutable facts' as defended by the science institutions.

Good, something in which we agree.

How melodramatic. Do you intend to chance your mind about anything while your still grace us with your presence here?

It's not a case of melodrama, I really do not know how long I will be here, but you can be sure that it's possible that I will change my mind about anything, although it's not my intention to change my mind about any subject, I do not see any problem in such a change.

Any person can arrive at conclusions and the true test of intelligence is whether it is his own or the BBC's/CCN's/Pravdas or , god forbid, his local religious leaders.

No problem there, I use the media just as a way to see what the other people see, I do not consider their opinions any better than any other person's opinion.

And religion was one of the things about which I changed my mind during my life, in the last 30 years I have been an atheist.

So for all the time you have spent interrupting and objection you do not really know if something is true or false? It's one thing to be uncertain but this does seem a bit cowardly when looking at your actions on this thread.

When I state my opinion about anything it's just that, my opinion, and when I object about something stating my opinion it's not with the idea of proving the other people wrong, my idea is to show to those people that there may be some other possibilities that they are not considering.

When I am participating in a thread, if I do not make any comment about something that is posted it's usually because I do not see any flaw with the information posted.

Your opinions does not correspond to what you have observed on this thread and i really do not care for opinions that does not even correspond with where the main stream scientist are slowly heading.

To me they correspond, my way of interpreting the data presented may be different from your's.

It is quite clear to me that you do favour some conclusions over others , just as i do, and even clearer how much you will deny to arrive at them.

Yes, I do favour some conclusions, but that does not mean that I like those conclusions better than the others, just more likely to be the explanation to something.

I may have strong enough evidences pointing to a conclusion to make me consider it the most probable explanation to something,

Which is why you seem to consider the main stream view the best chance for being 'right' or at least part of the system?

I do not consider the main stream view the best chance for being 'right', I consider the main stream view the best way of explaining the facts, regardless of who is right or wrong, probably because they have more data accumulated in its favour.

but I do not consider that I know that the explanation is the real explanation, then I say that I do not know the real explanation.

So it's good enough to just agree with the majority whatever the truth may be?

No, that has nothing to do with what I meant to say. What I mean is, if I see some explanation that is well supported with data and in which nobody else from the people that study that subject finds any flaws, I may consider that explanation as being the most probable but I do not really consider that I know the real explanation, I see that explanation as being the closest to the true explanation as we can get at the time.

So you do not trust the science data and if that is the case why are you even here?

I trust the data from the people that are studying a subject, but that does not mean that I have any conviction about that data or about the subject of the data, I only have convictions about things I really know, and those are limited to things with which I live and use every day.

That's as good a excuse as i have ever heard. While i am not sure how a excited mind leads to breathing problems i am not going to play at bashing the invalid.

Good for you, one of the symptoms of an asthma crisis is the feeling that we are going to die in a few minutes.

I would like you to at least address the majority of the questions i ask you and with some lucky to help you change your mind on a few things. Ideally i want everyone to post as much as they can but frankly i don't have all the time in the world and i can't correct all the nonsense i want to. If some of the more ignorant fools on the forum would just shut up i would probably not lose my temper with stubborn, but civilized and educated, people such as yourself. You will have to excuse my occasional outbursts and i will do my best not to read too much into your refusal to acknowledge the volumes of information i have presented...

Just to be clear, I am not refusing to acknowledge the information, I just do not agree with the interpretation of the information.

Argh!@#$#% The drama! Don't leave, please?

As I said before, sorry, I sometimes over-react and feel attacked with minor things.

I will try to improve my behaviour.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Where is the largest image, or highest res image, of this scene you have? I do not think i am working off as good a picture as you guys.

Here.

It's a 261MB JPEG2000 file, but it's worth it.

I think Photoshop can open jp2 files.

This image of Xanthe Terra from HIRSE - beside obvious water shaped landscape, is interesting regarding those “rock“ tracks. Is's big area of 170 miles - a sea of smaller rocks - but these few, that we are discussing are quite distinguishable. Deep and clear tracks.

Looking through Sol images - this one is interesting, at least, in the center - there is funny looking “rock“ - sharp edges, with flat bigger “layer“ that look like it is protruding from soil ( like the rest of that “object“ is somewhere under the ground.

* original image

[edit on 4-6-2007 by blue bird]

There is something fishy in this artificially looking “rocks“. Like the famous one ( IMO absolutely the strangest thing on Mars for now).

This detail from MOC large strip of southeast floor - West Candor Chasma, released by MSSS in 2000 ( spacecraft altitude: 1074 km), has been debated over and over over   various sites.

What to say - picture is worth a million words!


* original MSSS strip

“structure“


up right of the “structur“ - there is some kind of “conduit“ or open tube, that is attached on the rock wall : with LIQUED SEEPING on the lower level - where the “structure“ is sitted

Ain't that “structure“ remind you of the same image took by Mariner9 in 1972 - which was titled “The Airport Terminal“... by Isenberg











here

For me this MSSS strip with strange “structure“ and a water flowing is simply mind blowing. there is a lot going in here:


* open tube with water, from bird view...and there is some arch triangle structure below

* vegetation and river...with oval rim, like some kind of river bank

* strange shape - vegetation !?

Here is this image.

I think that you can see, clearly, water.

marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov...