Stop Iran now

Originally posted by avro
Iranian Islamo-Nazi party

Statements like that will do nothing but dent your credability.
But I agree, I msure they could of done unbelieveable things to these people to make them say it.

Your saying we shouldnt listen to this 'forced' confession yeah?

gotta ask, what side are on being the alqaeda guy admitted to everything under the sun?

which one's should we be discarding, being its us and them?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by avro
Iranian Islamo-Nazi party

Statements like that will do nothing but dent your credibility.

if we're talking credibility stakes here I think yours is off the scale with all the anti West stuff that you come out with, but you won't stop me posting my thoughts, especially when British hostages lives are being threatened. Deep down you know the Iranians were in the wrong and you also know that the British commanders bend over backwards to observe the rules in these situations





[edit: fixed quote tags]

[edit on 26-3-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

sigh, your right.
again.. i mean how dare anyone criticise the USA?
wheres my logic.

No one knows yet who's in the wrong.
No one has released PROOF yet, so you cannot accurately say WHO's in the wrong.
Im so sick of you *snip*

Seriously, for Christ sakes...

its like its god damn illegal to speak ill of the USA.

Jesus, what more do you need to say, if your administration hadn’t of made the ILLEGIAL decision to invade and occupy another country simply for GOD DAMN CORPORATE GREED


NONE, ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE DAMN THING that is happening RIGHT now would be occurring.

Its like youve been fed drugs and simply cannot comprehend the POSSIBILTY that YOUR GOVERNMENT Manipulated this WHOLE DAMN last 6yrs.....

What more PROOF do you need, until you stop labelling people SHOWING the illegality of this ANTI WESTERN?

I am WESTERN FOR GODSAKE.
I LOVE THE WEST< I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND I LOVE THE USA and ITS PEOPLE.

YOUR ADMINISTRATION ARE THE ONES RUINING THIS PLANET AND MAKING A VERY VERY BAD IMAGE FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR YOU

STOP telling me, im ANTI WESTERN BECASE FRANKLY, THERES no other way to VIEW your administration right now.

Screw its, thats it *snip*
If you guys cant have a debate about YOUR country hell with ya

this anti-west
anti-us
anti-bush


this immature label people throw around here SIMPLY because someone doesnt appreciate the lies and murder the US commits, ruins this site.
everything this site comes for.

Im done.. go murder the whole dman ME if you think its worthy.. its not like im a part of this world is it.

If you cant see the FARKEN truth thats staring in your god damn face by now..
then frankly you desere to die on this oil soaked, corporateley FUNDED battlefield which your obviosuly quite happy to go fight on.


What ever happened to HUMAN DECENY< LOVE ?

ITs like your all creaming in your pants WAITING for the first volley yo get shot?

Thanks ATS youve been great, but unfortunately this anti-western label just ruins everything everyone workds for.

It seems if i have a voice against this evil agender.. then im in the wrong.



[edit on 26-3-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Mod Note: Do Not Evade the Automatic Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Agit8, these war mongers are not representative of all Americans.
They have been brainwashed into fearing brown skinned men in foreign lands half a world away.
I dont know exactly how we went from the "Home of the brave" to a scared nation of yellow bellied sissies that want to bomb the other nations for the slightest offense, but it happened.
I dont know why more Americans dont see through the fear-mongering propaganda designed to manipulate the masses, but they dont.

I just keep reminding them how un-american it is to be so scared all the time.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
I dont know exactly how we went from the "Home of the brave" to a scared nation of yellow bellied sissies that want to bomb the other nations for the slightest offense.

What nations are you refering to?

Afghanistan? The one's who harbored Al-Queda? Or Iraq? Saddam had to, no matter how you look at it. I don't agree with the way the invasion was executed but the milk has been spilled.

I think your comments are a bit off center.

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by 11Bravo
I dont know exactly how we went from the "Home of the brave" to a scared nation of yellow bellied sissies that want to bomb the other nations for the slightest offense.

What nations are you refering to?

Afghanistan? The one's who harbored Al-Queda?

Uh huh.... six years, billions of dollars and over 3000 of my brethren dead, and wheres Osama again?
You must not know or understand that Al-Queda is a CIA operation created to fight the Russians in the 80s.

Or Iraq? Saddam had to, no matter how you look at it. I don't agree with the way the invasion was executed but the milk has been spilled.

Had to? WHy? For WMD that didnt exist?
Had to? Why? Because he wasnt killing his people fast enough?
As far as your 'milk' comment.
This isnt 'crying over spilt milk', this is attempting to refrain from spilling any more milk.
And once the milk has been spilt, dont you think somebody should clean it up?

I think your comments are a bit off center.

You are free to think whatever you want, no matter how ill-informed your view may be, but I would recommend that you educate yourself about WAR, and reasons for WAR, and find out about the first casualty of war.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Uh huh.... six years, billions of dollars and over 3000 of my brethren dead, and wheres Osama again?

Osma Bin Laden does not equal an end to the war. We are not fighting a country, or even a man - but an ideology, something which cannot be defeated, only defended against.

You must not know or understand that Al-Queda is a CIA operation created to fight the Russians in the 80s.

I am very aware of the history involved there. After Iraq invaded Kuwait, Osama offered his "army" to the leaders of the Kingdom to repel the invaders. Saudi Arabi rebuked him in favor of America - at which point he became a threat to our country.

Had to? WHy? For WMD that didnt exist?
Had to? Why? Because he wasnt killing his people fast enough?
As far as your 'milk' comment.
This isnt 'crying over spilt milk', this is attempting to refrain from spilling any more milk.
And once the milk has been spilt, dont you think somebody should clean it up?

How long would we have had to contain Saddam? How much would that cost? Can you effectively execute a campaign in the theater while policing his regime at the same time? What level of threat would have existed?

Can you answer those?

You are free to think whatever you want, no matter how ill-informed your view may be, but I would recommend that you educate yourself about WAR, and reasons for WAR, and find out about the first casualty of war.

I was in Saudi Arabi at the time the Khobar towers were bombed, I was stationed there. I remember shortly after the incident, during the evacuation an NCO and myself had to take the commander's Z-34 to the Post Office and secure it.

When were arrived the doors were wide open, the place was ransacked. We had to back the truck to the entrance and run the winch over the hood and into the facility. We then attached it to a safe that was unsecure; containing pre-addressed envelopes (addressed to some pretty important, as well as some secret locations) along with other very important documents. Not something you want to leave behind for anyone to get a hold of.

The truck was a P.O.V., and I hadn't the time to put on my BDU jacket. As the safe was winched out it crushed the roof of the truck and cracked the windshield. Once the safe was secure we headed back to the shop to get two Airmen who were on duty. They followed us in a smaller pick up as we prepared to exit the installation.

When we got to the gates it was pretty hectic, security was handled by Suadi forces and they were letting everyone in. It was getting off-site that was the problem. As we neared the gate I was pulled from the passenger seat (we were a sight to see, beat up Chevy, me out of uniform) and thrown to the ground and a gun was put to my head. I remember seeing out of the corner of my eye the NCO tapping his shoulder with his fore and middle fingers indicating I was a captain. I was then let up, but there was still the issue with the language barrier. There was still a box of Dunken Doughnuts that were left over from breakfast on the dash. The guard was eying them so I slipped a $20 bill in the box and gave it to him. We were then allowed to exit the facility.

At this point we started to haul ass to Dharahn. We hit the major highway and basically put the "Pedal to the Metal". We missed our exit and had to turn around, which meant we had to go through sand. We made it across fine but the Airmen in the smaller truck got stuck.

We removed the winch from the safe and ran it under our vehicle and attached it to the stuck truck. This took some time and a crowd was starting to gather, safety becoming a concern. We put the gear in 4-Lo and punched it, jerking the truck free as well as bending it's frame.

We made the rest of the journey without the incident, just the smaller truck was all over the road and the occupants were scared as hell.

Indeed.



EDIT: Spelling / Structure





[edit on 26-3-2007 by crisko]

And your safe securing story has exactly what to do with anything?

This thread is about 'stopping Iran', and I just dont see how your Kohbar Towers incident has any bearing whatsoever. It sounds like it was very exciting for you though.

Iran is no more of a threat to America than Afghanistan or Iraq or any other middle eastern country.
You cant 'defend your way of life' by occupying foreign lands.
Empires collapse from overextension, and by advocating a wider war in the M.E. you are pushing for an extended, bloody, win-less war that will ultimatly bring the United States to economic ruin.

Originally posted by 11Bravo
And your safe securing story has exactly what to do with anything?

The point was I have been to war before.

Iran is no more of a threat to America than Afghanistan or Iraq or any other middle eastern country.

Iran is in fact a much larger threat than you perceive it to be.

That's all I can say.

Invading Iran might be the single worst decision anyone has made in the history of mankind. First of all, many have tried to invade Iran in the past and many have failed. The country is extremely mountainous and their military is substantially better equiped than Iraq or any other foe we have faced in the recent history. It looks like we are on a one way road to destruction and going into Iran further solidifies that feeling.. Let's not.

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by 11Bravo
And your safe securing story has exactly what to do with anything?

The point was I have been to war.

Well if you say so.
For an officer of whatever MOS to claim that he has 'been to war' and supports it with a harrowing story of securing a safe, bribing a guard with donuts and a 20$, missing an exit and getting a truckload of flyboys unstuck, all while driving a POV in civies, is amusing to say the least.

Iran is in fact a much larger threat than you perceive it to be.

That's all I can say.

Sure they are....
And you keep telling yourself that you are a combat veteran my friend.

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by 11Bravo
And your safe securing story has exactly what to do with anything?

The point was I have been to war.

Well if you say so.
For an officer of whatever MOS to claim that he has 'been to war' and supports it with a harrowing story of securing a safe, bribing a guard with donuts and a 20$, missing an exit and getting a truckload of flyboys unstuck, all while driving a POV in civies, is amusing to say the least.

I thought it was a good story. The point is - well it doesn't matter.

And you keep telling yourself that you are a combat veteran my friend.

So now we are down to insults? You are closed minded. You come here to argue, not debate or discuss.

Done here.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by crisko]

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by crisko

Originally posted by 11Bravo
And your safe securing story has exactly what to do with anything?

The point was I have been to war.

Well if you say so.
For an officer of whatever MOS to claim that he has 'been to war' and supports it with a harrowing story of securing a safe, bribing a guard with donuts and a 20$, missing an exit and getting a truckload of flyboys unstuck, all while driving a POV in civies, is amusing to say the least.

I thought it was a good story. The point is - well it doesn't matter.

And you keep telling yourself that you are a combat veteran my friend.

So now we are down to insults? You are closed minded. You come here to argue, not debate or discuss.

Done here.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by crisko]

Well well.. looking at your form of "argumentation" I'd say you are the one who's close-minded here.

At least your discussion-opponents have got an idea of what is really going on.

Just because you've been to war doesn't mean you know anything at all. Actually it means that you are probably more brainwashed and perceptive to common propaganda.

And as a self-proclaimed war-veteran this list might be interesting to you. It isnt a complete list, but maybe you might get a grasp of what we are actually talking about:

US-Wars 1950-1999

Wake up Darling. It's time for your first Breakfast in the real world.

From Previous Comment

May I add that this is a British topic not an american, find it rather annoying other members trying to hijack this thread an attacking the US.

If you want to do the above start another thread, an stop trying to stray off topic.....


Sooo all these little snips at the US, is just wasting up space on this thread....

Are you kidding me....first off, you can't choose sides that quickly, maybe they were in Iran waters who knows....You can't go to war over it, how about all the people being illegally held in Guantanamo Bay...yea thats right illegally, bet many more then 15, try hundreds, but no one seems to care about that....it's only wrong if they do it...I understand.

May I add many in the UK oppose Guantanamo Bay., Am alot have voiced their concern over it.

"Illegal war", "Proof", "Illigitimate Administration" Some of you guys throw these words around like you have some absolutely divined knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I'd like to know exactly what your security clearances are? Beyond that you are presenting your OPINIONS as grounded fact.

I'm not going to single anyone out anymore, but it's time to start being OBJECTIVE in our presentation of SUBJECTIVE matter! If your opinion is that the war in Iraq is illegal make that clear. The war is, in fact, legal under UN Resolution 1472 and Chapter VII of UN Code despite your displeasure or disagreement with it!

If you have proof that Bush lied or manipulated intelligence PRESENT IT!!! For Pete's sake - this is a conspiracy forum - we would LOVE to see concrete evidence that the US or the UK entered into this war under false/manipulated pretenses. All I have ever seen is speculation, biased articles, Op/ed pieces etc... that are presented as "proof" - they're not!

There are far too many people with an anti-war agenda crying foul over everything when it is obvious that they actually "know" nothing - just simple emotions, feelings or opinions. Whereas, I respect your opinions, present them as such - not as FACTS! Honestly, this is just getting tiring.

Back to the thread...

The Brits were doing EXACTLY what they are authorized to do under UN Charter and Resolutions in either INTERNATIONAL or IRAQI waters. So far there is ZERO proof that they were operating in Iranian waters, except claims made by the Iranians (What would you expect them to say:@@.

Whereas I agree that this is an undeniable escalation in tensions, I remain hopeful for a peaceful resolution to this whole debacle, nuclear programme included! However, the Iranians are defying international law and UN Resolutions by continuing their nuclear programme - period! This is FACT, not conjecture. Look it up! Their detention of UK troops may well be illegal, but that is UNKNOWN at this time. I am never for "war" but I am for enforcing the rules where necessary. The time may be approaching where this will have to be doen through force. Let us hope and pray that it can be avoided!

Iran should give the GPS and navigational equipment to an independent country to decide.
If they were in Iranian waters they accept their punishment. If they weren't forget it!

The US and UK have been in and out of Iran for years now and Iran know. Iran could have reacted before now. Maybe it has just gotten fed up of being watched. As individuals we would get pretty pissed off if we had a peeping tom.

It also makes me think that Iran have nothing to hide or so much they aren't afraid. They would have reacted far more aggressively before now.
The next time time the Brits or the US decide to visit Iran maybe they should use Thomas Cook or face the consequences.

How would you react if you had Iranian sailors/marines in your terroritorial waters? It isn't a law for one and a law for another.

Originally posted by kozmo

"Illegal war", "Proof", "Illigitimate Administration"

Some of you guys throw these words around like you have some absolutely divined knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I'd like to know exactly what your security clearances are? Beyond that you are presenting your OPINIONS as grounded fact.

I'm not going to single anyone out anymore, but it's time to start being OBJECTIVE in our presentation of SUBJECTIVE matter! If your opinion is that the war in Iraq is illegal make that clear. The war is, in fact, legal under UN Resolution 1472 and Chapter VII of UN Code despite your displeasure or disagreement with it!

If you have proof that Bush lied or manipulated intelligence PRESENT IT!!! For Pete's sake - this is a conspiracy forum - we would LOVE to see concrete evidence that the US or the UK entered into this war under false/manipulated pretenses. All I have ever seen is speculation, biased articles, Op/ed pieces etc... that are presented as "proof" - they're not!

There are far too many people with an anti-war agenda crying foul over everything when it is obvious that they actually "know" nothing - just simple emotions, feelings or opinions. Whereas, I respect your opinions, present them as such - not as FACTS! Honestly, this is just getting tiring.

Back to the thread...

The Brits were doing EXACTLY what they are authorized to do under UN Charter and Resolutions in either INTERNATIONAL or IRAQI waters. So far there is ZERO proof that they were operating in Iranian waters, except claims made by the Iranians (What would you expect them to say:@@

.

Whereas I agree that this is an undeniable escalation in tensions, I remain hopeful for a peaceful resolution to this whole debacle, nuclear programme included! However, the Iranians are defying international law and UN Resolutions by continuing their nuclear programme - period! This is FACT, not conjecture. Look it up! Their detention of UK troops may well be illegal, but that is UNKNOWN at this time. I am never for "war" but I am for enforcing the rules where necessary. The time may be approaching where this will have to be doen through force. Let us hope and pray that it can be avoided!

Please. I am thinking exactly the same. Repeating over and over again to people. But it isnt possible to prechew all of true history to everyone, No?

You guys have to find it out for yourselves. Make your own picture of history etc. After all that's what we are here for. If you are not able to open up for possibilities of what other people are saying.

Then you are in the wrong place. Find out for yourself. Go and check if there is truth behind the way people like me, amongst others, write of some "facts" as if they were divine. As you call it. There's nothing divine about it. It may take quite a bit more time than a night and a day, but it's certainly worth it.

For instance; The "Vote" to allow the privatisation of the Federal Moneybank was pushed through with a mean, cowardous little trick:

The vote was passed by maybe 2-3 people in the parliament (or whatever you call it) while ALL the other members where having their official holidays.

The US, and other constitutions is being constantly RAPED.

And you are coming here with an argumentation of UN-Act Nr. 1234511 which has been passed "legally"? Whether we like it or not? Seriously? Well that's nothing new, to be honest.

Legal/Illegal is certainly not a good indicator for a proper analysis. The Elite walks over the juridic net like fairys, and the regular people are stuck in it spasming around like pathetics.

Maybe your missing knowledge of certain historical facts is the reason why our form of "Meta-Language" seems to be about some divine, hidden.. or "unrealiable" information.

Wow-what vile language you spit AGIT8ED. You should calm down a little bro and look at your own country and the support they give out. Study at home before you study abroad son. Some folks on here are a little too opinionated and a little too loud about it without thinking before they speak.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by princeofpeace]

Originally posted by kozmo

"Illegal war", "Proof", "Illigitimate Administration"

Some of you guys throw these words around like you have some absolutely divined knowledge that the rest of us don't have. I'd like to know exactly what your security clearances are? Beyond that you are presenting your OPINIONS as grounded fact.

I'm not going to single anyone out anymore, but it's time to start being OBJECTIVE in our presentation of SUBJECTIVE matter! If your opinion is that the war in Iraq is illegal make that clear. The war is, in fact, legal under UN Resolution 1472 and Chapter VII of UN Code despite your displeasure or disagreement with it!

If you have proof that Bush lied or manipulated intelligence PRESENT IT!!! For Pete's sake - this is a conspiracy forum - we would LOVE to see concrete evidence that the US or the UK entered into this war under false/manipulated pretenses. All I have ever seen is speculation, biased articles, Op/ed pieces etc... that are presented as "proof" - they're not!

There are far too many people with an anti-war agenda crying foul over everything when it is obvious that they actually "know" nothing - just simple emotions, feelings or opinions. Whereas, I respect your opinions, present them as such - not as FACTS! Honestly, this is just getting tiring.

Back to the thread...

The Brits were doing EXACTLY what they are authorized to do under UN Charter and Resolutions in either INTERNATIONAL or IRAQI waters. So far there is ZERO proof that they were operating in Iranian waters, except claims made by the Iranians (What would you expect them to say:@@

.

Whereas I agree that this is an undeniable escalation in tensions, I remain hopeful for a peaceful resolution to this whole debacle, nuclear programme included! However, the Iranians are defying international law and UN Resolutions by continuing their nuclear programme - period! This is FACT, not conjecture. Look it up! Their detention of UK troops may well be illegal, but that is UNKNOWN at this time. I am never for "war" but I am for enforcing the rules where necessary. The time may be approaching where this will have to be doen through force. Let us hope and pray that it can be avoided!

How is enriching uranium defying international law? Your US government does the exact same thing, but worse, they actually build nukes! Arent they defying international law?

Isnt falsifying facts to coerce the people into going to war against international law?

Well if you support the war, go and fight it then, and let the thousands of troops who have smartened up, and see this war for what it really is, let them come home like they want to but the military wont let them okay!

Since when is the killing of another person, including AT LEAST 300,000 innocent civilians by the way, independant count, since when is that not a CRIME?? YOU FOOL!

Your administration LIED to the people about the reasons to go to war. Your government covered this up, and destroyed the careers of people who exposed it, your government ILLEGALLY taps your phones, your government ILLEGALLY ships in the drugs, your government ILLEGALLY disregards the constitution when it comes to executive powers, and conveniantly uses the constitution whenever they need to save their ass, your government has admitted to giving black men sypholus for 50 years, your government admits to killing thousands of soldiers in nuclear tests, your government admits to experimenting on children without their consent, your government admits that they let 4000 american civilians die in the Philippines during WW2.

And your government does not want you to know any of this, they want you to just believe whatever you are spoonfed, as you wave your damn flag made by slaves in China.

Wake up and smell the fascism, how can you look at what your government is doing, and not say that is fundamental FASCISM? LOOK UP THE DEFINITION! Its when the State and Corporations work together to centralize power OUT OF YOUR HANDS! THATS WHAT IS HAPPENING, AND YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND STOP CRITICIZING PEOPLE WHO ARE RIGHTLY AGAINST WAR!

Im sorry, its just I cant believe some people, who just are so blind, they can not even see the evils that exist around them, everyone is wrong but the US! Does being American means you never have to take responsibility for actions? 300,000 AT LEAST civilians killed in Iraq, is it justified? Even with Saddam gone, is it justified? Of course its not.

Your government even uses cluster bombs that are actually BANNED by the United Nations, yet they never get in trouble. Why??

What about depleted uranium, which is causing complete devastation to the newest generation of Iraqis? Is an American life more valuable than an Iraqi life? No its not.

But you people wont care, your government says its good, so it must be. Your government puts out memos that say torture is good, yes so what? Your government purposely falsifies the information they give to the press, and they do it all the time people dont even notice anymore, but who cares?
Yea so what your government was caught, through a corporation called Dyncorp, buying and selling little girls, Congresswoman Cynthia Mckinney is an outspoken vocalist about this atrocity, have you ever heard of Cynthia Mckinney? 3000 children in Florida alone, kidnapped thru dyncorp, many of them were found overseas, or DEAD, but so what??

When are you people gonna wake up?

But you dont know of any of this, because you get your news from Bill O'reilly and FOX, and you wont go look up facts for yourself, you expect everyone else to show you proof, ok now we are getting somewhere...

Ok show me some proof the government tells the truth. Good luck



[edit on 27-3-2007 by LightWorker13]

Thx alot for elaborating my/our view of this sick # going on, Lightworker.

It is just so annoying to repeat the same things over and over again.
The topics and crimes like MK-Ultra Mind-Control experiments, Child-Abuse.. or whatever sadistic rituals they are doing for instance.

They are so widespread and so overwhelming. If you talk about them so often it feels as if you were "derailing" from the topic. But those things have to be said over and over again. For the ignorant people who are too lazy to think for themselves. Maybe they happen to ask themselves: "Why are some people so convinced, with those sick and incredible 'theories'? Might it really be true?"

But one phenomena I have noticed in real life is; When you get the courage to talk about those problems in a bar. With people you dont know, and when the atmosphere and communication between old/young people is good.

You are having a discussion. And as soon as you actually come to the point of showing the facts, where you actually convince people.
THEY will change topic subconsciously, or aren't even able to listen at all.
Many of them are even waking up from the big smokescreen, but as there are so many distractions and supposedly "severe" main problems.

Many of those who wake up actually drift into the wrong line. They suddenly have a fascist ideology. Because they are critical, notice something wrong. Their guesses sometimes are pretty close, but too sick or lazy to investigate thoroughly. And then they end up taking too early and wrong conclusions of the true causes for our problems.

Or as i said, they simply change topic subconsciously, or aren't fascist at all.. but still critical and guessing quite well.

Those are the very few for now. Sadly Fascism is a pretty popular ideology and takes away those people who are waking up from the "good side". From the proper path and truth.

People reacting with changing topic or numbness to facts remind me of people who are suffering from "SHIZOFRENIA". In that point Michael Tsarion is definately right. The people who want to go on with Social life without thinking about the truth, simply edit out the rest of the world.

No wonder practically everyone is mentally sick. Supressing so much of reality all the time.