Stop Iran now

Originally posted by avro
they have no right to detain my fellow country men who happened to be carrying out a legal stop and search in Iraqi waters, the kind of patrol which goes on all the time, helping to bring about stability to the region. The Iranians knew this was a routine patrol there could be no doubt, unlike 2004n which was right iside a narrow waterway

They have every right to do what there doing...

1. How do you know they were carrying out a legal stop and search in Iraqi waters?

2. How do you know the stability in the region is being helped?

...and please don't say "because BBC says so!".

If the sailors and marines were in Iranian waters and spying (i would like to know what they could have spied on) why would the navy allow a BBC film crew be onboard Hms Cornwall and who had filmed the kidnapped sailors the day before. This is no way the MOD would allow the filming of troops if they are SF/intel troops when you consider how secretive the MOD on these type of troops and operations

hahaha For crying out loud for what? for being the sand dwellers they are, for enriching uranium. to trade, sell, deliver to terrorist to use against everyone
USA and Isreal to name top two. illegal to go into iraq? why because you didnt find the A-bomb? we know they had weapons of mass destruction because we the cia and others gave it to them meaning Iraq. when they invaded Iran all because of the treaty Saddam didnt obey... the water boundries with Iran, the same one in question. boo hooo leave poor ol Iran alone
no touchie, touchie..TURN THE WHOLE PLACE INTO GLASS! be done with em. same goes for Syria, and Iraq, leval and start over, meaning leave
after you have a nice smooth piece of Obsidian covering all of the middle east . hahaha for what? so funny

Some way has to be found to halt Iran's Nuclear program and curtail Russia influence in the region. One wonders if the government of Iran is using political games knowing that there isnt enough domestic political and public support for wide scale military action against Iran.

As for the British sailors that were captured if it is proven that they were taken in Iraq's waters the SAS should be used to extract them. This way Iran couldn't use for them for the purpose of political games.

you are right, and if im not mistaken, Russia seems to be getting tired of Irans games, and hords of engineers have fled with family in tow. the Kremlin released some statement of displeasure towards Irans actions as of late. so really the only thread left is China... and umm well China is China. what can i say?

China is a rising economic power who is using Iran much like the Russians are to gain influence in the Middle East and to use Iran as a counter weight against the US.
So the question becomes how to counter the moves made by Russia and China ?
Some form military action shouldn't be ruled out. People were just getting over Vietnam syndrome (the fear of another Vietnam type war ) and then Iraq happened.

because they detained foreign military who impeded on their foereign state

If you are refferring to the British Servicemen/women who were taken illegaly, then I would ask you where is your proof that these Servicemen/women impeded on theie soveriegh state? Those servicem,en/women were in international waters or even better still they were in Iraqi waters. So you assumption is wrong.

1. How do you know they were carrying out a legal stop and search in Iraqi waters?

2. How do you know the stability in the region is being helped?

...and please don't say "because BBC says so!".

Have you even been watching the rerports? Interviews with the ships commander? Even he says they were carrying out legal stop and search duites under the UNITED NATIONS charter. They were not there illegally.....

Check out the reports first before assumming they are wrong....

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

If you are refferring to the British Servicemen/women who were taken illegaly, then I would ask you where is your proof that these Servicemen/women impeded on theie soveriegh state? Those servicem,en/women were in international waters or even better still they were in Iraqi waters. So you assumption is wrong.

Ok, so becuase I dont have proof, my opinions is wrong.
but your opinion is correct, even though you dont have proof either.

The captured brits have admitted they were in Iran waters... that to me has more weight than the british saying they wernt.
The coalition have already admitted previously that they enter Iran on occasion.. so this isnt out of the realm of possibility.
And I still cant see why Iran would run such a risk, by entering Iraqi waters, under the guise of the coalition navy, snatch british soliders... then publically admit to it.

I think, the iranians put that merchant ship so close to the border.. that it was hard to distinguish WHERE it was.
but they made sure it WAS on their side, knowing full well from previous experiences that the coalition searches such ships.

they placed the bait, the fish took it.. and they caught their prize.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The captured brits have admitted they were in Iran waters... that to me has more weight than the british saying they wernt.

They were held at gun point, you seriosly take this as valid evidence?

I think, the iranians put that merchant ship so close to the border.. that it was hard to distinguish WHERE it was.
but they made sure it WAS on their side, knowing full well from previous experiences that the coalition searches such ships.

they placed the bait, the fish took it.. and they caught their prize.

Yeah that tends to be called an act of war, dont think the EU or the UN would too pleased about that. Do you?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The captured brits have admitted they were in Iran waters... that to me has more weight than the british saying they wernt.

They were held at gun point, you seriosly take this as valid evidence?

I think, the iranians put that merchant ship so close to the border.. that it was hard to distinguish WHERE it was.
but they made sure it WAS on their side, knowing full well from previous experiences that the coalition searches such ships.

they placed the bait, the fish took it.. and they caught their prize.

Yeah that tends to be called an act of war, dont think the EU or the UN would too pleased about that. Do you?

Your right, why is it ok for the US to use admissions under duress, but when the iranians do it, its horse manure?

And if the ship was in iranian waters... there's nothing wrong with it.
the british shouldnt of entered there territory.

More Anti-west chatter from agit8ed! Show me the actual testimony from the sailors that admit they were "Spying"! What we currently have is PROPAGANDA from the Iranians. Show me that they were operqating inside Iranian territory. What we have are witnesses to state exactly the contrary.

What is it with you, man!? You are so quick to take the side of anyone other than the West. Everything from you is along the lines of - Ah, what do you expect the West is full of evil liars trying to kill anyone non-western. Get a freaking grip, dude! Stop being so biased and try, at least just fro once, to EVALUATE the FACTS before you start spouting all of your BS anti rhetoric! It makes me sick!

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

I think, the iranians put that merchant ship so close to the border.. that it was hard to distinguish WHERE it was.
but they made sure it WAS on their side, knowing full well from previous experiences that the coalition searches such ships.

they placed the bait, the fish took it.. and they caught their prize.

I think you're dead right. One report said the boat was anchored in 'Iraqi waters'. An Iranian ship anchored in Iraqi waters..? When Iranian waters are just a few miles away at any time in the narrow gulf??? Obviously it was a setup and they'll have some kind of proof that it was within Iranian waters and being illegally detained by the British.

Originally posted by kozmo
More Anti-west chatter from agit8ed!

Show me the actual testimony from the sailors that admit they were "Spying"! What we currently have is PROPAGANDA from the Iranians. Show me that they were operqating inside Iranian territory. What we have are witnesses to state exactly the contrary.

What is it with you, man!? You are so quick to take the side of anyone other than the West. Everything from you is along the lines of - Ah, what do you expect the West is full of evil liars trying to kill anyone non-western. Get a freaking grip, dude! Stop being so biased and try, at least just fro once, to EVALUATE the FACTS before you start spouting all of your BS anti rhetoric! It makes me sick!

I never said they admitted to spying, i said they admitted they were in Iranian waters. Read the post before you jump/.
And as soon as the WEST does something worthy of praise I will notify..
but atm im yet to see something that says they are for PEACE, rather than corporate greed.
Dont put words in my mouth, I love the US, and its people for the most part.
Its your administration giving you such a BAD name in the world.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The captured brits have admitted they were in Iran waters... that to me has more weight than the british saying they wernt.

Is there any proof of this ?
Its not like that Iran would claim other wise.

And I still cant see why Iran would run such a risk, by entering Iraqi waters, under the guise of the coalition navy, snatch british soliders... then publically admit to it.

They wouldn't admit to it instead they will try to force the British to admit that it was there mistake in order to score points in a political game.

they placed the bait, the fish took it.. and they caught their prize.

Given that the border is disputed that is very possible either way the UK should show no tolerance and if the sailors aren't released ASAP then its time to call the SAS.




[edit on 25-3-2007 by xpert11]

Originally posted by xpert11
Is there any proof of this ?
Its not like that Iran would claim other wise.

True, but why would the british admit to this?
And second, Why would Iran lie about this, being the soliders will one day be given back, unless its war.

They wouldn't admit to it instead they will try to force the British to admit that it was there mistake in order to score points in a political game.

True.... but dont the british/coalition have advanced guidance, thus would be able to prove EXACTLY where it was ?

I agree though, if they arent released, and it continues as is, send in the SAS.

Unfortunately, I think we all know where that will lead to!

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I never said they admitted to spying, i said they admitted they were in Iranian waters. Read the post before you jump/.
And as soon as the WEST does something worthy of praise I will notify..
but atm im yet to see something that says they are for PEACE, rather than corporate greed.
Dont put words in my mouth, I love the US, and its people for the most part.
Its your administration giving you such a BAD name in the world.

The headline reads "Brits to be tried for Espionage" that is spying. The Iranian slippery slope would have you believe that they a.) Were operating in Iranian waters b.) they were doing so to spy. Wrong and wrong. Witnesses place them in Iraqi waters at the time the conflict occured and then were escorted, at gunpoint, into Iranian waters. Secondly, they were NOT spying, they were carrying out UN sanctioned search and seizure oprations for illegal contraband defined under a UN Resolution.

Finally, the war in Iraq is NOT illegal, it was carried out under another UN resolution! Just because there were no weapons found, doesn't mean that they weren't there. Nearly everyone concurred with their own nation's intelligence that they had and were manufacturing illegal weapons - the US intelligence simply backed that fact up. In fact, a truly objective evaluation of FACTS would likely demonstrate that the bulk of those weapons were moved into Syria in the weeks and days prior to the war. Sadly though, I hardly expect an unbiased evaluation of FACTS from you Agit8ed.

Furthermore, as far as the West doing anything worthy of praise... hmmm. I simply don't have time to address this superior level of ignorance. One war that you don't agree with hardly erases the millions of the things that the West has done to benefit the world. Look into it sometime and I can bet you'll be floored!

Also, your BS attempt to assuage my feeling with your "I love the people of the US" crap is a load of bullocks at best! I have read your posts and I know how you really feel about the US, it's government and it's people! Nice try though.

Just out of curiosity - why not go ahead and move to the Middle East? As far as I can see, your opinion would have you believe that the Middle East can do no wrong while the rest of the world can do no right. Put your money where your mouth is - pack it up and head to Iran.

So let me get this straight... All you people in agreement with the US administration, you actually believe Al Qaeda was behind September 11? Right?
...Otherwise I'm sure we wouldn't be debating...

Because if thats the case, I think it's obvious we're definately wasting our time debating this issue. Pointless arguing against pure ignorance.

And before you start calling us "anti American", might want to tell that to the majority of your own country. I'm sure you've seen the polls about what American's think of their administration.

Agit8dChop there is no incentive for either side to admit wrong doing but the burden of proof lies with Iran since they seized the sailors. As soon as Iran hands the sailors back they don't have there pawns any more.
So what incentive is there for Iran to give up the sailors ?

The British would have had something like GPS you would think but it wouldn't have done them much good since the borders are disrupted. A rescue mission by the SAS wont lead to war unless wider operations are conducted.

I'm leaning towards this being a political stunt by Iran at this stage.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Your right, why is it ok for the US to use admissions under duress, but when the iranians do it, its horse manure?

Because the last time I checked the british were not the americans and therefore not my concern, people kidnapping UK citizens ARE my concern.

And if the ship was in iranian waters... there's nothing wrong with it.
the british shouldnt of entered there territory.

But the ship wasnt, it was on a mechant ship. If's will be the end of the world.

Originally posted by devilwasp
But the ship wasnt, it was on a mechant ship. If's will be the end of the world.

No one can prove right now where it was...

And the British are part of the coalition... You dont become seperate entities just because you dont approve of the US tactics in interogation.
Im sure there are British personnel in AbuG anyways, again you cannot prove that the British are NOT performing torture, likewise neither can I.....

I dont think Iran will torture them... ( wow who woulda thought, Here we are arguing the fact that the US tortures people and wether Iran will or wont )