Why Time Does NOT Exist!

Originally posted by blue bird

Originally posted by Mysteri
...................its just a form of measurement we have been using for so long now it has become misconstrued as an actual elemnt of nature.

But what are we MEASURING than !?

We measure mass also....


Maybe anti-realism is a lot of fun....theories on the side - but how we can ignore our experience of time passing...irrevocable!!?

Time measures interaction. We measure occurence in relation to our bodily functions, the cycles of the cosmo etc. Cycle, the coming and going, the expanding and contracting, created time for man.

within ten minutes... I'll be hungry, have to leave for work and it will stop raining. All of those things, are groupings of interaction. It rains because it wasn't raining, water amassed, fell etc.

There is only interaction. In order for man to progress, hold history, he must be able to record, to describe an interaction between forces that has once happened. Every single thing operates in cycles. The span of these cycles differs, man observed this, and implemented a language to measure occurence.

I came up with a time map called wheel within wheel. circles within circles rotate at different speeds. On these circles lie nodes of oppurtunity and chance, when these nodes align due to rotation, an event occures. I was baked and an image appeared in my minds eye, and it made a couple cups of sense to me at least.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by depth om]

I gotta here some more ideas about time! Someone out there has something to say I know it.

Time is nothing, it holds gravity in here only because of our friction with life.The denser we are the more in tune we become with it, the less in tune the more we accel through it.The less we gauge its classification, the less we promote its growth.True science is being One with everything.Being ONE is only the 'direct moment'.

All life is but a 'simulatneous moment'.

Time is a ratio of thought.It only exists because we say it does, the less you deal with time the more you deal with the moment and will be outside of it, the more you will be able to manipulate it.Because now you are 'true being' of imagination/creation.

And in imagination lies the key of freedom, what we create a concrete thought of we become in tune with.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by menguard]

Well as it stands, this thread has come to the conclusion that time does not exist.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by depth om]

Originally posted by Mysteri
i think you are starting to get it but forget the "everything happens at the same time" thing time is simply an illusion we cast over ouselves for accuracy in day to day activities,

You have been repeating that for some weeks now but still you offer no reason why i should share this view. Why should i question the apparently fundamental reality of the passage of time?

its just a form of measurement we have been using for so long now it has become misconstrued as an actual elemnt of nature.

Form of measurement? Why do you refuse to stop confusing the means of measurement with what is being measured. Why are you pretending that seconds, minutes and hours are not measuring at least something? Does the sun not regularly set at predictably times and predictable places?

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by Mysteri
i think you are starting to get it but forget the "everything happens at the same time" thing time is simply an illusion we cast over ouselves for accuracy in day to day activities,

You have been repeating that for some weeks now but still you offer no reason why i should share this view. Why should i question the apparently fundamental reality of the passage of time?

its just a form of measurement we have been using for so long now it has become misconstrued as an actual elemnt of nature.

Form of measurement? Why do you refuse to stop confusing the means of measurement with what is being measured. Why are you pretending that seconds, minutes and hours are not measuring at least something? Does the sun not regularly set at predictably times and predictable places?

Stellar

Again, all time measures, is the rate of change of an object or a grouping of objects.

Form denotes timing.

Originally posted by menguard


All life is but a 'simulatneous moment'.

Time is a ratio of thought.It only exists because we say it does, the less you deal with time the more you deal with the moment and will be outside of it, the more you will be able to manipulate it.Because now you are 'true being' of imagination/creation.

And in imagination lies the key of freedom, what we create a concrete thought of we become in tune with.

[edit on 23-8-2007 by menguard]

This is nice for poetry - but nothing to do with science.

How one 'manipulate the time'?

What is a 'true being' ? Do you know that we humans have overwhelmingly bacterial genome? Try 'imagination' and make them go away - and then try to process your food!

And please, if you can be so kind, 'manipulate' and 'create' a little bit more nicer world.

Well, despite the fact that I haven't read the entire thread being that this is my first time coming across it, I've got a pretty good idea of the direction it is going.

I'll go ahead and throw in my thoughts.

Time is no more non-existant than spoken or written language. Both are man-made, and both were developed to help us understand the world and each other. Just because they are man-made does not mean they do not exist. What we did not create is the fact that we can make noises to speak our languages, nor did we invent the way in which we percieve our world, in a linear progression from new to old.

For example, perhaps all of "time" is just one instance, however the only way in which we can percieve eternity is in a linear fashion. The idea that matter can have new and old qualities simulataniously doesn't seem to make sense in our world, at least in our minds, such attributes can only be observed separeately, thus we were new and become old. Time, like on a clock or a wrist-watch, became a standardized (and synchronized) method of predicting what will be observed and explaining what has been observed.

Also, in a thread such as this, two different ideas may be confused when using the term time. You have to be able to distinguish between the two meanings. One may be refering to time, as in the time on a clock, and another might be refering to the effect of time, what we observe as the natural shift from order to chaos.

Hopefully this makes sense.

[edit on 2007/8/28 by evilod]

^ You my friend, have gotten MANY points from me. As what you said is the most sensible.

Let me give my two cents. I believe, the time that we think exists only exists because we made it so. So...in general...time does not exist. No time! I will tell you what exists though....change. Change is all it is. Not time, but change. Time as we know it is a measurement of that change. We measuer change in distance with a ruler, calling it distance, using units such as the centimetre & metre. Time is the same thing; it is a measurement of a change felt...a distance that has passed between what happened then & what is happening now. We use numbers...more so, seconds, nanoseconds, hours, years, decades to express this time.

These numbers were based upon our revolutions itself...and our revolutions around our sun. We created time to measure and mark moments in history...to organize our actions. If one was to go with a watch to another planet, maybe even another solar system & that watch works...we will still count seconds and hours, due to the mechanics of the watch. Seeing that it is a standard to set the second, hour & minute hand to move a certain amount of degrees...after a certain perfiod has passed, to sum up entirely 24 hours, because it takes roughly that for the Earth to spin around once. Although, some scientist believe in the Earth's ealiest life, it made an entire revolution in just 6 hrs.

Time as we know it does not exist. it is just calculation. If the Big Bang never occured, does that mean there is no time? If something does not move, or does not even exist, that does not mean there is no time. That means that their is nothing changing to calculate. If there was nothing...no universe...just space...nothing would be changing. However, time would still be present. Yes, there is no change, but if you placed a watch in that emptiness, you'd see that moments have still passed. The moments still change, but because there is nothing there for those moments to capture...nothing there to act upon itself, nothing to deteriorate, nothing to depreciate...the man made time would seem to not be there. It's like saying, if there was an immortal man(who does not age, does not change or deteriorate), who lived through the years, and is still alive even after the entire universe has vanished, leaving just emptiness...then time has surely stopped. Time has stopped, but change has not. The visible change that we see is no longer there, but change is still taking place. If this man were to be wearing a watch of some kind...the change would clearly be seen as the numbers tick away. Now, picture this watch vanishing(due to whatever reason)...has time stopped? The time that we know has...but change has not.

Time cannot be stopped and it never started from something. It was always there. Change is the only thing that remains constant. Maybe that is what God is...change. They say he never changes...LOL. Change also never changes, even when there is nothing tangible to see and feel, it is stil there.

There is the future, you can always get to the future, any change, whether forward or backward is forward change. There is a past. The things you remembered yesterday is past. There is no getting back to it, because yesterday has past. It is not a check point in some large time holding mechanism. After you read what I typed...there is no going back to that point. If there is a way to go back to something that no longer exists, then the common man's idea of what time is truly does exist.

G-d has control over what we call time and can change anything on a dime. If your reading a book and see a passage that says, "The hollow log has gold". You could blink and it would change to, "the hollow log has a mouse". G-d can switch the parallel universes at will and we would never know it. When your growing up you make choices and haven't we all thought about what we could have done or coming across that fork in the road? These choices we make create parallel universes. If I decide to eat steak tonight and then change my mind to eat a pizza. My alternate person in the parallel universe actually chose the steak.

reply to post by sdrawkcab


The fact remains that things do change, radioactive isotopes decay, our planet does revolve arooud the sun....all of these facts demand that time exists. The way it is measured may change depending on the observer.

As long as someone is there to observe or are affected by these events, time continues to matter. If the universe were deviod of life, intelligent or not, then time would still exist, it just wouldn't matter.

Unless of course you take into consideration the existence of spirit creatures that inhabit not a physcal plane, but a spiritual one. If these creatures, though not confined to our physical universe, are still able to observe changes taking place in it, then time would continue to exist & matter.



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Sparky63]

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Sparky63]

Well since everybody else is giving their two cents, i'll throw some out.

"Objects move, therefore there is 'rate', therefore there is such a thing as 'time' in the sense of somthing coming and going, past and present. This denotes the idea of finitism, of quanitity, of a given amount. And somthing that has a given quantity is impossible to exist also as an infinite, or an absolutely unlimited quantity. There is no evidence to challenge this conclussion. And since it is impossible for somthing to exist before it exists, a begining to the quantity of all that is must have been. Thus giving evidence to an absolute begining. But since somthing cannot come from nothing, a power beyond or greater than the realm in which we exist must have brought all that is into existence. And i see no reason to call this power anything but God."

That is somthing i wrote awhile ago, and while not specifically themed to this threads discussion, i feel it's at least somewhat pertenant.

It's true that 'time' as most people percieve doesnt physically 'exist', but i see no reason to bark about a system that has been an integral part in the social and economic development of our kind.

This discussion can be directly related to the debates of universal finitism or infintism. Both ideas have some points and valid arguments, albeit from different perspectives and thought processes. and though some argue that time doesnt exist, i havent read of any true evidence that disproves the fact that there is finitism, and movement within that finitism. Just because you cant see the end doesnt mean it doesnt exist anymore than the center of the earth, which is equally unseen and mysterious. I feel that comparing 'time' to the movements around us is completly reasonable and acceptable.
i do happen to consider myself a realist, which means i believe in things seen and understood to be true, without the incurssions of personal bias or perspectives. it is my firm belief that there is such a thing as absolute truth. and while it doesnt seem to be such a big issue in the modern realms of 'science', ones beliefs and supernatural convictions have just as much influence to ones ideas as the hard evidence witnessed. so, for my point on that last ramble, be mindful of your perspectives and convictions, for as they serve you credit, they also tell your secrets.

Peto Veritas
ioogy.blogspot.com

Time does exist,though you can't perceive it directly.Whereas, it would be "seen" through other phenomena,such as movement and vibration.

The tern "Time" is a concept and a tool used to describe/measure these changes of everthing,however, time itself exists .

[edit on 29-9-2007 by nanoha]

Originally posted by cloakndagger
G-d has control over what we call time and can change anything on a dime. If your reading a book and see a passage that says, "The hollow log has gold". You could blink and it would change to, "the hollow log has a mouse". G-d can switch the parallel universes at will and we would never know it. When your growing up you make choices and haven't we all thought about what we could have done or coming across that fork in the road? These choices we make create parallel universes. If I decide to eat steak tonight and then change my mind to eat a pizza. My alternate person in the parallel universe actually chose the steak.

That is merely all your own supposition.

How do you know your 'other self' would carry on into another dimensional universe and choose steak?

I believe that this whole theory of multiple universes is a grand scheme thought up to take people's view away from God, just like evolution and the big bang.....providing alternatives, if you like, to God's unique claim upon mankind.

Got no idea why anyone should accept the idea of god in relation to time, period. Bible? Why should I accept that at all? Seems the discussion has bogged down somewhat in relation to the concepts of time as quantitative, and qualitative. Till you get there, aint no discussion atall. Personally, time definately exists, but I wouldnt trust any clock to tell me what it is. The qualitative understanding of time is largely ignored, less/t it be understood. The answer is time, as a message, as through a noctilucent cloud darkly. It can be nigh infinitely defined and discussed, but, throughout is the experience, like multi=coloured threads shot through our life. Dont get it? You will someday.

Time measures interaction. We measure occurence in relation to our bodily functions, the cycles of the cosmo etc. Cycle, the coming and going, the expanding and contracting, created time for man.

I came up with a time map called wheel within wheel. circles within circles rotate at different speeds. On these circles lie nodes of oppurtunity and chance, when these nodes align due to rotation, an event occures.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by depth om]

I don't know (yet) about the image or the paradigm itself (the wheel), but the definition of our "time" being measuring interaction is simply brilliant. (The emphasis being on both words.)

I know you're probably aware of it.
I just wanted to chime in to let you know that I am aware of it, too.





[edit on 14-11-2007 by Vanitas]

Time is basically measured in tandem with the motion of the Earth, the moon and the sun. If there was no motion, what time will it be and how do we measure time?

Time does not exist for several reasons.

The first is that it cannot be measured. Some scientific types will disagree and try to prove it. But they cannot.

A few points. Time could only really be divided if it had a beginning AND ending. So you can go ahead and measure it when it stops. Oh, wait. How will you be able to perform your calculations when you no longer exist? Oops can't measure time that way.

The laws of man define things in terms of time. 1 + 1 =2. OK, so what. Say you are counting apples that have fallen from a tree. After completing your count another apple falls. You are measuring and defining in terms of NOW. The current now will always be changing.

Can you tell me what a car is? Can you tell me where each atom from that car came from? Can you tell me using science what that car will be in 100 zillion years? No. Science is mans attempt at defining the present and future in terms of the past.

A true understanding of time can only be personally experienced. Once you have had the experience it is undeniable.

Time is the biggest conspiracy ever. The greatest tool ever devised to control the human mind.

lol... of course there is past present and future!! and of course its impossible to define present, simply because when you say that you are in the present that moment already belongs to the past... but his is pretty obvious to anyone.

Lol at the people who say time doesn't exist. Some of you have some serious issues.

Lets see...

I want to know how you "deniers" of time can explain Age, Growth, and Sequence. You see, those are the main indicators of time. As humans we put measurements on time, you can deny the measurements but don't deny the actual existence of time. Time is measured by Secs, Mins, Hours, Days, etc.

Time does infact exist. Without time, there wouldn't be any motion. Everything would Begin and end instantaneously.
Heres an example for you...

Speed = Distance/Time
If distance = 50km, time = 1 hour. Speed is 50km/ph
Now if Time = 0..
Speed = 50/0 = Uncalculable.
In other words, without time, no motion.

Again for you deniers, I want you guys to explain Age, Growth, and Sequence. And try not to respond to my post in sequence (Impossible) because that would prove the existence of time.

Good luck, with that.