Why Time Does NOT Exist!

TIME = MEASURE + ENTROPY (i.e. dissipative energy use)


AAC

Time is the measure of change. Time is also a local measurement as for days/ months/ etc. If you're not on a planet then you would be measuring time based on other motions such as planetary or stellar.

As I stated many pages ago, time does and does not exist in the larger picture. We live and die because we are energy and energy is statically changing. There was no beginning and there was no ending in a larger scope, but as stated, we do live and we do die. So we finitely experience eternity while being of eternity; interesting, contradictive, undeniable.

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
I don't think our language is yet capable to express time. Is not time a human measurement? I don't believe in time travel because I don't believe time to be a place. There is only the "now" that we experience[although most of us spend time daydreaming in fantasies or past, future events]. But things undoubtedly are born, decay, and die. So why exactly can't time exist? And if time does not exist, then there are contradictions in your post.

Cause like everything else around us, nothing can survive forever, that really has nothing to do with time. Humans, animals, plants, Planets, even our own Sun sooner or later will die out. We just use time as a means to measure when we're expected to die. Tell me this, if Humans didn't exist, would time still exist if there's no one to record it?

Time was created to make our every day life a little more convenient so we can better understand certain events in our history, present and future. Someone said we need time to know when we go to work or when we should leave from work. We also use measuring tape to determine the amount of materials needed to build a house. Do we need it? No, but it makes life a lot easier.


Time is by no means concrete, since Mars, Venus and every other planet in our solar system rotates to a different clock.


And to the guy who said he doesn't believe in time travel, do you believe in dimensions? Cause its very plausible a year ago exists now, and ten years from now existed yesterday in very different circumstances. If you understand where im coming from.

The truth is we consider ourselves very sophisticated and intelligent, but we're just getting our foot in the door in terms of scientific discoveries. Actually we only started evolving a fraction of our potential when we learned to fly, look how far we've come in 100 years. Give us 200 more and then we'll talk about time, past, present and future.

Time is Flawed, however it does exist since we use it in our every day lives, but its by no means a universal theory, its centered around our needs.

Originally posted by PlayeR87
the way i look at things there is the WAS, the NOW, and the WILL BE

I agree in a way, and disagree in another. What most people here don't seem to realize is, there isn't so much a past and future, but there is history, present, and what may be. I say "may be" because I believe that what will happen in my life tomorrow is my decision. I could go to school and see my school's play, and go to class, or I could stay home and lurk ATS all day. And you can't just deny history. I remember yesterday, but maybe that was only called yesterday because that is the title it was given, but it was still in my history and I can still remember it. Or like how the holocaust happened, even though the UK schools don't want to admit it, it DID happen. What we know of time is the now, and the history. While I'm writing this, it is in my present sense of time, but by the time anyone reads it, it will be in my history.

And that is my view.

I've always found it extremely interesting that Einstein revolutionary concept that time is relative and varies depending on the viewer is not so revolutionary after all.

Sometime around 460 BCE King David wrote:

“You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: ‘Go back, you sons of men.’ For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night.”—Psalm 90:3, 4.

Clearly, King David was indicating that the passage of time is relative.

I would proffer that anyone who uses time to describe motion is using a flawed concept. We use the factor of time for the approximation of the motion of objects from our earthbound surface frame of reference.

Time is an invented entity used to model and predict motion of objects as we see them from our frame of reference. Time doesn't exist. Going one step further, forget about time travel. Anyone who believes there is a past or a future to which they can mysteriously travel is exercising self-delusion.

The sooner our students are freed from thinking about motion using speed and time, the sooner they will discover what really makes things move and ultimately provide a mechanism which will result in “free” energy.

I can imagine how frustrating it would have been to see scholars trying to construct a working Ptolemaic solar system. Kept science and discovery in a stranglehold for 1,000 years. How long will be shackled by using time in our models? When will we stop being deceived by the illusions we “see” regarding distances?

I am not an apologist for God. He exists before all eternity. Look at the universe. It is orderly and efficient. Order needs a creator, it does not create itself. The Big Bang Theory and Black hole theory cannot coexist. If all matter was in one place at the same time, it would have been the biggest black hole ever. The gravity in this black hole would have crushed everything within itdul How may I ask, Did it explode? Where did the matter come from and who lit the eternal match?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


There was no and is no creation of eternity and order, it always has been and always will be.

You sit here and say it needs a creator, then who/what created God? Don't be so illogical.

reply to post by Mysteri


of course time exists, but only for humans, and only as a measurement tool. if humans had not created time, thousands of years of human interaction, would have been thrown into chaos. what i think your trying to say, is that time does not exist for any other type of known molecular entity, outside of human consiousness. but maybe i misunderstood you.

[edit on 4-6-2008 by jimmyx]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
TIME = MEASURE + ENTROPY (i.e. dissipative energy use)


AAC

Let me tell you a secret. Time doesn't exist. Its only usefull as a tool for measurement on a graph. Much like an inch, centimeter, or liter - it is a imaginary concept used as a useful measurement tool. It is a man-made concept and nothing more. Time travel doesn't exist because the only difference between "the past" or "the present" is simply states of mattter.

Every subatomic particle that exists today existed in "the past" and will continue in "the future" to exist, although not exactly in the same location. In that mannor of speaking we are concurrently in "the past," "the present," and "the future" simultaniously. No "time travel" is possible.

I know some of you would reply that time is proven to exist by astronauts and such. The phenomenon they experience IS real however the conclusion reached as to what has happened is quite flawed. Their "time" isn't moving at a different rate than our down here on earth, but rather their matter does not move at quite the same rate. Why? Consider that in space they do not have exactly the same amount of forces (both weak and strong) acting upon their own subatomic particles.

I don't have "time" to explain further but hopefully you get the idea.

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Well Man



I really dig conversations like this.

If you released a little red ball deep in outer space, it would head towards the nearest watering hole, and mix with the inhabitants, and if you froze an astronaut for a million years and brought him out of suspended animation a million years later, that ball would be long gone.

Time exists, and to prove it try this experiment.

Stand in a well groomed field and place a flat square object at your feet. Pick up a nice stout piece of wood and place it on your shoulder. Then have your friend stand about fifty feet away, and throw a leather bound ball of twine at you as fast as he can over the flat square lying at your feet.

Now, if your mind does not command your body to swing that lumber into the path of the on coming ball of leather and twine at the right place in time, even if you succeed in swinging that lumber through the space that the ball passed through, or will pass through, you will still miss that ball, and it will fly on past you, rather than you knocking it off into the yonder.

That is how you know time exists.

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You could just as easily say that space is an illusion of time. You roll a little ball across the floor, as time passes the ball appears to move further away from you, but maybe the ball has not moved at all, only the focus of the vibrations reflecting off of the ball have changed, so that in your perception, the ball now appears smaller, or further away.

If the focused force of the lumber does not synchronize with the focused force of the ball, the two do not interact. The lumber and the ball continue on their way uninterupted.

Someone holds a piece of paper with the 11.5 X 8 side facing towards you and it is easy to perceive, but turn it side ways so that only the 11.5 by .001 side is toward you and it disappears completely from your view if it is far enough away.

If it wasn't for the forces that hold the particles of your body together, and the forces that hold the wall togehter, you could walk through that wall, and odds are that not one particle of your body would touch one particle of that wall. You do not see the particles of the wall, they are spaced way to far apart, you see the force that holds the wall together. It is the force holding the particles of the wall together that reflects the waves of light rolling towards you within a narrow evenly spaced frequency that you eyes are able to interpret as color. The particles of the wall might not even exist. You both may be just a synchronization of forces coming together at the right time.

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You could just as easily say that space is an illusion of time. You roll a little ball across the floor, as time passes the ball appears to move further away from you, but maybe the ball has not moved at all, only the focus of the vibrations reflecting off of the ball have changed, so that in your perception, the ball now appears smaller, or further away.

If the focused force of the lumber does not synchronize with the focused force of the ball, the two do not interact. The lumber and the ball continue on their way uninterupted.

Someone holds a piece of paper with the 11.5 X 8 side facing towards you and it is easy to perceive, but turn it side ways so that only the 11.5 by .001 side is toward you and it disappears completely from your view if it is far enough away.

If it wasn't for the forces that hold the particles of your body together, and the forces that hold the wall togehter, you could walk through that wall, and odds are that not one particle of your body would touch one particle of that wall. You do not see the particles of the wall, they are spaced way to far apart, you see the force that holds the wall together. It is the force holding the particles of the wall together that reflects the waves of light rolling towards you within a narrow evenly spaced frequency that you eyes are able to interpret as color. The particles of the wall might not even exist. You both may be just a synchronization of forces coming together at the right time.

Originally posted by poet1b

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Well Man



I really dig conversations like this.

If you released a little red ball deep in outer space, it would head towards the nearest watering hole, and mix with the inhabitants, and if you froze an astronaut for a million years and brought him out of suspended animation a million years later, that ball would be long gone.

Time exists, and to prove it try this experiment.

Stand in a well groomed field and place a flat square object at your feet. Pick up a nice stout piece of wood and place it on your shoulder. Then have your friend stand about fifty feet away, and throw a leather bound ball of twine at you as fast as he can over the flat square lying at your feet.

Now, if your mind does not command your body to swing that lumber into the path of the on coming ball of leather and twine at the right place in time, even if you succeed in swinging that lumber through the space that the ball passed through, or will pass through, you will still miss that ball, and it will fly on past you, rather than you knocking it off into the yonder.

That is how you know time exists.

what?

reply to post by JOINTHERESISTANCE


Timing is everything, and that proves that time exists. You have to be at the right time and the right place to make anything happen.

Time DEFINITELY exist, well from our perspective anyway

Hi,
All of the science part of it is irrelevant to me as I dop not understand it.
But I would like to add my own thoughts.

How long was there before you was born?
How long will there be after you are born?

The answer is infinite no. of years. This is because the world has been and will be around for an infinite number of years.
So without a start point we cannot measure time, just like without a start point we cannot measure distance.
It is without this start point, which no matter how much scientists try to find there has been no start point of the Universe, that we cannot say time exists.

This is a great thread – another ATS treasure.

During the course of this day, I've actually gone through all 19 pages, passing out quite a few stars along the way (but everything was good, even those posts that weren't starred.) It has been a real mixture of science, philosophy, poetry.

#

I'm confounded by most of the opinions expressed in this thread. It is clear to me the first correct answer was supplied by zeeon on page 3: Time exists, and our perception of time is modified by our frame of reference in our current space/time position, as explained in Einstein's Theories of Relativity (in my opinion.)

Having plowed through this entire thread, I thought I would have more to say than that. But at this point, I am drawing a blank.

Great job everyone.

reply to post by Buck Division


There's many ways to explain what time is and I think went over almost all of them in this thread... although this was some time ago and I'm sure my views have since changed and my logic has grown stronger.

Time really is only energy (us, an objective, yet relative and referencial viewer)) measuring the interaction of energy that ultimately brings about change.

Time is the measure/experience of all things interacting.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by JOINTHERESISTANCE

 

Timing is everything, and that proves that time exists. You have to be at the right time and the right place to make anything happen.

lol you have got to be the biggest idiot iv ever come across.