Poll: Your vote Yes Or No: Was Thermite used in Twin towers

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by lizziex3
Heck no. It's ridiculous that anyone would think that you could use thermite to bring down a giant building and not have it clearly noticed by everyone.

I guess NO one clearly noticed the hot spots and molten steel in the basements that existed right after the collapses and STAYED melted for quite some time... conveniently under 1,2 and 7 I might add.


Right now I believe that Thermite/Mate was used but that was not exclusively.
It's the only thing that answers many questions.

How long do you figure themite burns? Quite some time? Or Not really that long at all?

GwionX
How long do you figure themite burns? Quite some time? Or Not really that long at all?

The thermite itself doesn't have to burn all that long when you consider how hot it gets now does it? 2500++ degrees C. I'm sure that was hot enough to keep the OTHER stuff around it burning for -quite- some time.


I don't have the link in front of me but didn't they use thermocool to help put out the fires? I will not hold your hand right now but what -convenient- property does thermocool posess?


[edit on 18-3-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]

Thermite is mostly used for welding, not cutting. I've seen it used to weld railroad track together on bridges where they don't want to put expansion joints. It only burns for 2 - 3 minutes and basically forms a weld by melting the iron in the mixture and the surrounding iron within a mold, so they combine together and fill the gap. If you were going to use it to cut through a girder, you would need to encase the girder in a cast iron mold (thermite is a dry powder and would just fall off otherwise) which would probably weigh several hundred pounds. So I vote "no".

possible though improbable.

it just makes more sense to me than would conventional explosives. so if i HAD to choose between the two im more likely to be convinced it was thermite.

though in honesty i dont think it was any of the above...just saying that thermites more possible than HE. to me anyway

It makes you think when you see things like this.

www.valis.cjb.cc...

Dear Mr. Gould and Mr. Boyd

Re: Were oil company bombs, cutters used to 'pull' WTC #7?

I invite the board of directors of both of your companies to investigate the possible use of oil company remote-controlled bomb and cutter technologies by as-yet unidentified organizations which decided to ‘pull’ – industry jargon for demolish – WTC building #7.

WTC#7 became the first steel-frame building in history to collapse through fire. The collapse generated pools of molten steel in the debris piles at the site, consistent with the ignition of chemical (thermite) cutters pre-positioned by wireline inside its structural box columns and the remote-controlled detonation of atomized aluminum powder or ‘rocket fuel’ bombs in segregated column sections.

Schlumberger’s “Casing and Tubing Cutters” document has, “Cutters used to sever tubing or casing .. Jet cutters cut casing in a flat plane perpendicular to the casing wall. Chemical cutters burn the casing .. Applications: .. Burr- and flare-free cutting with chemical cutters; Bomb for heavy drillpipe or casing [base of box columns 4” thick]”.

[edit on 18-3-2007 by ULTIMA1]

appears to be an email sent to those guys...

who sent it?
did they respond?

curiosity gettnig the best of me on that one. id love to know the outcome of that email, but more to the point, who sent it. (i think we've discussed that one before in another thread but as im not feeling well today im hoping you'll make it easy on me ultima and just provide a link for me?)

thanks

Originally posted by Damocles
appears to be an email sent to those guys...

who sent it?
did they respond?

curiosity gettnig the best of me on that one. id love to know the outcome of that email, but more to the point, who sent it. (i think we've discussed that one before in another thread but as im not feeling well today im hoping you'll make it easy on me ultima and just provide a link for me?)

thanks

www.valis.cjb.cc...

Open letter and e-mails for the attention of:

Andrew Gould, Chairman and chief executive officer of Schlumberger Ltd.
Care of the Schlumberger Limited Secretary, Schlumberger Limited
153 East 53rd Street, New York, NY 100222

James R. Boyd, Chairman of the Board, Halliburton Company
C/o Director of Business Conduct, Halliburton Company
5 Houston Center, 1401 McKinney, Suite 2400, Houston, TX 77010
[email protected]

And their companies’ respective boards of directors and shareholders

From: David Hawkins [email protected] Forensic Economist at Hawks' CAFE,
Foundation Scholar, Cambridge University, Co-host Black Hawk Investigations,
British Columbia, Canada Tel: 604-542-0891

Copy:
U.S. Vice-President Richard Cheney,
Former Chairman & CEO of Halliburton Company (1996 – 2000)

Steven Jones, Jim Fetzer, Co-chairs Scholars for 9/11 Truth www.st911.org/

E-mailed: Wednesday, May 31, 2006

www.slb.com...

Hello Pharaoh!

I cast a big fat yes — that thermate (instead of thermite) was used to assist in the demolition of the twin towers. Specifically on the outer perimeter columns.

How much? Well, let’s do the math. There were 110 stories and 259 outer perimeter columns. If we blow up only every third floor that would equal 28,490/3=9,497 demolition charges. Of course there were probably some thermate packets placed on the interior core columns as well. So at a minimum there were 10,000 or more bomblets positioned at each WTC tower for a total of over 20,000 at WTC-1 and 2.

Just remember that the bulk of the destroying was done by something a little more powerful — fusion bombs.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

[edit on 3/18/2007 by Wizard_In_The_Woods]

um, this is NOT an attempt to derail the thread, but i just have to ask...


wizard, after reading your last post, the fusion bombs aside, i just have to wonder...given that thermite reactions are VERY bright, even in the daylight. how on EARTH did NO ONE see upwards of 20,000 thermite bombs going off?

i mean...seriously. unless the same projector that created the hologram is capable of hiding them by making us see the buildings just standing there smoking etc...you can see why one might just be a 'little' skeptical no?

im not going to say yer wrong....
im not even going to say yer crazy...
i wont imply you are intoxicated...
but i have to ask if yer serious or not?


edit to add: ultima, thanks for the links

[edit on 18-3-2007 by Damocles]

Originally posted by Damocles

edit to add: ultima, thanks for the links

[edit on 18-3-2007 by Damocles]

No problem, let me know if you need any other info.

Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods
Hello Pharaoh!

I cast a big fat yes — that thermate (instead of thermite) was used to assist in the demolition of the twin towers. Specifically on the outer perimeter columns.

How much? Well, let’s do the math. There were 110 stories and 259 outer perimeter columns. If we blow up only every third floor that would equal 28,490/3=9,497 demolition charges. Of course there were probably some thermate packets placed on the interior core columns as well. So at a minimum there were 10,000 or more bomblets positioned at each WTC tower for a total of over 20,000 at WTC-1 and 2.

Just remember that the bulk of the destroying was done by something a little more powerful — fusion bombs.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

[edit on 3/18/2007 by Wizard_In_The_Woods]

Well, if something more powerful was used for the bulk of the destruction, why did the plotters bother with thermite/thermate in the first place?

My personal view is that those of you who believe thermite was used are all guilty of following a red herring. Firstly, you think Prof Jones' discovery of thermite contamination in a sample of WTC slag he was sent is smoking gun evidence that it was used to destroy the towers. It proves no such thing. Debunkers can argue that clean-up crews at Ground Zero could have been using thermite to cut up steel girders and that is is what Jones detected. Indeed, here are photos that seems to show just that: Fig 14(a), (b) & (c) at
nomoregames.net...

Secondly, you rely on those videos of molten metal dripping down the sides of the WCT 2. Jones claimed it could not be aluminum because it does not glow yellow in the molten state. But lab experiments scholarsfor911truth.org... by Judy Wood and Michael Zebuhr in February, 2006 showed that aluminum does glow at high enough temperatures, although they don't explain how such temperatures could have been reached to make aluminum fittings in the offices melt to such an extent.

The evidence for thermite is therefore highly inconclusive, despite what Jones claims. But it is beside the point, because the upper part of the two towers were pulverised into a fine powder by many powerful explosives - a degree of destruction that thermite/thermate could never have achieved. That's why I say this issue amounts to a red herring.

Originally posted by micpsi
The evidence for thermite is therefore highly inconclusive, despite what Jones claims. But it is beside the point, because the upper part of the two towers were pulverised into a fine powder by many powerful explosives - a degree of destruction that thermite/thermate could never have achieved. That's why I say this issue amounts to a red herring.

I guess you can show us what caused all the molten steel in the basements of all the WTC builidngs.

And i am not going by others research i am going my own research on things like this.

www.valis.cjb.cc...



[edit on 18-3-2007 by ULTIMA1]

Dear Damocles:

We did see Thermate bombs going off. It’s just that no one seems to care.

Here’s a crop from a famous picture showing precisely what you want to see — a thermate charge going off. But perpetual doubters will still somehow try to explain it away.

The following needs to be kept in mind:

— The thermate devices were only augmentative. There purpose was to slice through the perimeter columns to prevent the outer shell (‘tube’) of the towers from remaining standing. Had those columns not been cut up they would have stayed upright sort of like a giant piece of chicken wire.

— Had the nukes been sized/set to do the entire demolition job these feathery pieces of 14” x 14” box columns — on average half inch thick steel — would have been sailing as projectiles across lower Manhatten much further than the few hundred feet they actually did. And of course there would have been massively more collateral radiation damage.

— Most of the incendiary reaction from the thermate went toward the inside of the buildings

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

I'm going with yes, I am going with the firemen saw and heard and the men and women working in the basement. THEY KNOW

I should make my answer very clear """""""YES"""""'

Originally posted by lizziex3
It's ridiculous that anyone would think that you could use thermite to bring down a giant building and not have it clearly noticed by everyone.

You would need to create a diversion to draw people's attention away from an engineered demolition. Let's say, something innocent looking, like a plane crashing into the target first.

Who would ever question it?

I thought it was Semtex.

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 18-3-2007 by In nothing we trust]

wizard,
with regards to that photo. im not going to try to explain it away, though i will ask you this:

is it not the least bit odd that of the nearly 20,000 thermite charges you estimated, we only see one (maybe a few i havnt seen EVERY picture of the destruction) flash on film? the way you outlined your hypothesis, we should, even in taht photo, see a line of flashes that essentially circumnavigates the building in an even line with that one (in the photo) if they were all going off in sequence correct?

i understand you'd want to have them focused inwards, but what would focus them inwards without them burning through it ?(thermite tends to burn omnidirectionally much like a sparkler)

unless you had a material that could contain that sort of heat yet not be very large, we'd be able to see them from outside the building in any photo we had no?

and thats not even taking the burn time into consideration as we both know that thermite wont burn through steel of that thickness instantly all the way around the column (simple caloric theory), and it has to burn end to end if i understand it correctly, which ill admit i may not, thermites not my area. so they would have had to start the thermite burning several minutes before the collapse for the thermite to do its thing.

so based on that, im going to have to stay with no to thermite, but if ive messed up any part of that on any important fundamental level please let me know. i dont know thermite as well as i do more conventional explosives (which is to say i now conventional HE very well but thermite ive only seen demonstrated a couple times in Incendiary grenades so while i have an understnading of it from the chem classes i took in college my real world experience with it is lacking enough i wont even try to be an expert on thermite.)

regards

Absolutely not.

I don't believe it was a controlled demolition. However, IF IT WAS, they wouldn't have used thermite.

Explosives would've been easier to secretly install, easier to cover up afterwards, and would've had less chance of failure--bombs don't have different burn times, they just blow up or don't.

Thermite, on the other hand, would've been a sloppy mess with no 100% guarantee of working, with evidence left everywhere--including right before the building collapsed.

Dear Damocles:

The Wizard is getting “lazy”. So I’ll quote an ultimate sage on the subject of how the WTC’s were brought down — our anonymous finnish military expert:
"What was propably used was army-type demolition charges. They have thermite mixed with sulfur and nanoaluminium, possibly with other chemicals too. They build a very hot
cutting spray which is capable of cutting through steel beams quickly, 10...100 times
faster than the basic thermite (and this mix is often called thermate).”

The key message here is, a souped-up type of thermite was used — thermate. The 9-11 planners would have had access to the best of the best materials in our military arsenal. And you know Damocles, we got some really “good stuff.”

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

lol wizard, you are getting lazy

however, that still doesnt explain why in your photo we see only one random flash that could be anythign rather than an a line of flashes that encircles the towers.

thermate may burn 100x faster than thermite but its still not going to be instantaneous to where we wouldnt see it and simple caloric theory says you have to heat the steel to melt it. i dont care how hot something burns you have to transfer that heat to the steel. even a laser has a burn time.

so that still begs the question why other than a couple random flashes we dont see more visual evidence of the 20,000+ thermate charges you yourself claim would be required.

doesnt that strike you as the least bit odd?

adn im not trying to rattle your cage or anything, if you yourself are unsure of the answer then just say so and ill accept that. id rather you told me "hey, im speculating on this but to me it seems plausable" rather than give me a bs answer.

and yes, i know we have some "good shhhhhtuff" cuz other than the thermate cutters ive used most or all of what the army has for cool toys when it comes to blowing things up. thats why im at least willing to listen to reasonable answers concerning thermate. its where my experience is the lowest so im open to learn new things, but for me to accept them i have to have some pretty basic questions answered.

you can understand that right? im open minded but not gullable

Dear Damocles:

Happy to hear from you again — and pleased to see you in such good spirits. You’re friendlier than your avatar would lead to believe.

Anyways, sure there are explanations for all your sensible questions. First off, I made a boo-boo. There were only 240 outer perimeter columns and not 259 (as previously erroneously stated be me). Sorry about that.

1. Of the 20,000 or so thermate charges only 240 had to go off at a time.

2. Reviewing videos and pictures will show that these charges were set off right behind the main detonation of the buildings’ interior mass. They were timed in a way that their ‘flashes’ were covered up by the pyroclastic clouds of vaporized matter coming down from the top.

3. Again, had no thermate whatsoever been used, the all the concrete, glass, and steel inside the buildings would have been destroyed. But the perimeter columns would have remained standing like one giant piece of tightly-meshed steel fencing with the wind blowing through. How would the 9-11 orchestrators have explained that?

Whoever arranged the detonation of the WTC’s (let’s not forget WTC-6 and 7) knew what they were doing. They must have been in business for a very, very “long time”.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods