#1 Reason To Believe...

Originally posted by Connected

Originally posted by lizziex3
...have you looked at the passenger lists?

oh, and you have less proof for your theories than I have for mine so stop making that argument.

Yes I have looked at the passenger list. You know what? It was changed many many times. Don't you recall the media saying how the original list didn't have the hijackers? Also, where did you get your list from? Please explain?

No, sorry I have more proof of my theorys than you.. dont kid yourself.

Really? I'd like to see some of your "proof" that can't easily be debunked. I don't remember where I saw the passenger list but I will try to find that link. Oh and in those pictures you posted a couple posts up, where do you see the thermite?

Originally posted by Connected
....

6: why are some of the hijackers alive?!?!?!

they aren't alive. you see, there are people in the world who have the same names. I bet even in America you can find one or two other people who have the exact same name as you! It's amazing isn't it?

oh and sulfer is found in other things besides thermite. Drywall often contains it..

[edit on 16-3-2007 by lizziex3]

never mind


[edit on 16-3-2007 by piacenza]

Originally posted by Damocles
see, this is a GREAT example of a conspiracy theory, or two even, that i could agree with. i cant claim i think the govt is totally innocent but as ultima said, it sure looks like they knew more than they let on and allowed it to happen.

only thing ultima and i may disagree on in this particular example, and im not trying to put words into ultimas mouth or anything, is that i believe its possible that the govt allowed it to happen through incompetance rather than knowing the details of when where and how and allowing it to take place anyway...even though i cant rule that out either.

Why is it a conspiracy theory, thier is evidence that the government knew about Pearl Harbor 3 days before it happened.

As for 911 thier were warnings about planes being used as weapons as far back as the 90s and even different intell agencies warning our government that it was going to happen here.

If the government agencies involved were so incompetant why was no one punished or fired ?

Why is it a conspiracy theory, thier is evidence that the government knew about Pearl Harbor 3 days before it happened.

Okay, lets clear this up right now. In Dec 1941, the US government was pretty sure that Japan was going to initate hostilities. However, the conventional wisdom was the Japs were going to attack the Phillipines or another US territory in that area. NO ONE thought Pearl Harbor was in danger. They assumed that there was no way that the Jap fleet was going to sail all that way and NOT get noticed. Human arrogance is a surefire way to get your ass burned everytime.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Okay, lets clear this up right now. In Dec 1941, the US government was pretty sure that Japan was going to initate hostilities. However, the conventional wisdom was the Japs were going to attack the Phillipines or another US territory in that area. NO ONE thought Pearl Harbor was in danger. They assumed that there was no way that the Jap fleet was going to sail all that way and NOT get noticed. Human arrogance is a surefire way to get your ass burned everytime.

Well i guess you do not know about or have never been to the National Cryptologic Museum, they have the decoded messages. We had been intercepting thier messages for some time.

Please save the NSA hoohah for another day. I'm WELL aware of that museum AND the messages that we were intercepting and decoding.

Originally posted by GwionX

Originally posted by Connected



I have read the NIST report 100's of times, Ive used it against you debunkers many times...

Plain and Simple.. YOU ARE LYING.

If you had read the NIST report "your minimum" of ONE hundered times, you would have to have read 1,000,000 pages. I will be very generous and say it only took you TWO minutes a page that is 2,000,000 minutes.

THis would have you reading the NIST report ALL DAY, ALL NIGHT, EVERYDAY since 2003. Without taking time out to sleep, eat, piss, post lies, or bathe.

Since the final NIST report wasn't released until Sept of 2005 ..YOU ARE LYING.

You do know that in the NIST report they say all of their writings were created from "pictures and videos" right? Also that they had no access to any of the material at ground zero right? They also say its all an estimation nothing solid, right??

Not true at all.

You have lost the micron of credibility you might have had.

Out of all the things I have said on this thread, you pick a damn "figure of speach" to debunk.. WOW you don't get out much do you.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Please save the NSA hoohah for another day. I'm WELL aware of that museum AND the messages that we were intercepting and decoding.

If you know about the messages why are you debating them ?

NO you are wrong, its the official story that needs evidence, THEY HAVE ZERO.

No evidence? Airline maintenance net radio calls identifying the hijackers. Gate security video....Ticket Agent testimony....Martyr videos made by the hijackers....Live coverage of one airliner hitting, eyewitnesses, DNA....how much more evidence do you want?

If you know about the messages why are you debating them ?

I'm not, im pointing out the facts about where the US government thought the Japs were going to strike.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

how much more evidence do you want?

I want evidence that wasn't spoon fed to the sheep.


So yeah lets get back on topic and discuss exactly why the believers think its easyer for 21 guys to execute 911, than it is for the US Government.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by Connected]

[edit on 16-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
No evidence? Airline maintenance net radio calls identifying the hijackers. Gate security video....Ticket Agent testimony....Martyr videos made by the hijackers....Live coverage of one airliner hitting, eyewitnesses, DNA....how much more evidence do you want?


I'm not, im pointing out the facts about where the US government thought the Japs were going to strike.

1. If the hijackers were using fake IDs how did the FBi come up with a list of terrorist so fast ?

2. We have gate security video but no video of them getting on the planes.

3. If the fires were hot enough to destroy the planes it would have also destroyed the bodies and DNA evidence. NIST DNA experts had to come up with new DNA testing just for 911, and they were not ready untill 2002.

4. Out of 4 planes not 1 got of an emergency call or signal, even though flight 93 had been warned to secure the cockpit door and was told about the other hijackings.

As for the Rearl Harbor documents, the Japanese were asking about the ship types and placment in Pearl Harbor.

1. If the hijackers were using fake IDs how did the FBi come up with a list of terrorist so fast ?

Lots of computer work, after they got the transcripts of the maintenance/airline radio net messages received from the flight attendants.

2. We have gate security video but no video of them getting on the planes.

No, but we do have the above radio calls from the attendants and the testimony of the gate agents.

3. If the fires were hot enough to destroy the planes it would have also destroyed the bodies and DNA evidence. NIST DNA experts had to come up with new DNA testing just for 911, and they were not ready untill 2002.

Umm not quite, but not really worth going into right now.

As for the Rearl Harbor documents, the Japanese were asking about the ship types and placment in Pearl Harbor.

And in Dutch Harbor, Manila, Midway, and even one request for San Francisco.......once again Human Arrogance rears its ugly head....

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


2. We have gate security video but no video of them getting on the planes.

Yeah Ive seen the video, you can't even clearly identify the hijacker. It could be anybody really.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999


Lots of computer work, after they got the transcripts of the maintenance/airline radio net messages received from the flight attendants.

Can you please show us these transcripts?

Originally posted by Connected

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


2. We have gate security video but no video of them getting on the planes.

Yeah Ive seen the video, you can't even clearly identify the hijacker. It could be anybody really.

LMFAO...yeah... your so right... but it wasnt me. Was it you swamp?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999


Umm not quite, but not really worth going into right now.

Well you might want to do more research on the DNA experts from NIST and when they came out with the new testing.

As far as Pearl Harbor.

Tokyo to Consul General, Honolulu, September 24, 1941 (#83):


"HENCEFORTH, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU MAKE REPORTS CONCERNING VESSELS ALONG THE FOLLOWING LINES IN SO FAR AS POSSIBLE:

"1. THE WATERS OF PEARL HARBOR ARE TO BE DIVIDED ROUGHLY INTO FIVE SUB-AREAS. WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO YOUR ABBREVIATING AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE.

"AREA A. WATERS BETWEEN FORD ISLAND ANT) THE ARSENAL.

"AREA B. WATERS ADJACENT TO THE ISLAND SOUTH AND WEST OF FORD ISLAND. THIS AREA IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ISLAND FROM AREA A.

"AREA C. EAST LOCH.

"AREA D. MIDDLE LOCH.

"AREA E. WEST LOCH AND THE COMMUNICATING WATER ROUTES.

"2. WITH REGARD TO WARSHIPS AND AIRCRAFT CARRIERS WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU REPORT ON THOSE AT ANCHOR, (THESE ARE NOT SO IMPORTANT) TIED UP AT WHARVES, BUOYS, AND IN DOCK. DESIGNATE TYPES AND CLASSES BRIEFLY. IF POSSIBLE, WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU MAKE MENTION OF THE FACT WHEN THERE ARE TWO OR MORE VESSELS ALONGSIDE THE SAME WHARF."

(Decoded in the War Department, October 9, 1941)
Consul General, Honolulu to Tokyo, September 29, 1941 (#178):


This message was in answer to Tokyo dispatch #83, and set up a two-letter code designation for each of the five prescribed Pearl Harbor areas.

(Decoded in the Navy Department, October 10, 1941)
Tokyo to Consul General, Honolulu, November 15, 1941 (#111):


"AS RELATIONS BETWEEN JAPAN AND THE UNITED STATES ARE MOST CRITICAL, MAKE YOUR 'SHIP IN HARBOR REPORT' IRREGULAR, BUT AT A BATE OF TWICE A WEEK. ALTHOUGH YOU ALREADY ARE NO DOUBT AWARE, PLEASE TAKE EXTRA CARE TO MAINTAIN SECRECY."

(Decoded in the Navy Department, December 3, 1941)
Consul General, Honolulu to Tokyo, November 18, 1941 (#222):


This was a lengthy report of U.S. vessels in the different Pearl Harbor areas.

(Decoded in the War Department, December 6, 1941)

Read the whole post Ultima

I'm sorry can we keep Pearl Harbor out of this topic? Please.

I dont have a problem keeping Pearl Harbor out of here.