#1 Reason To Believe...

whiterabbit wrote
It's just so highly, HIGHLY improbably and unrealistic that the only place it could actually happen is a movie.

The collapse of not one, not two, but three steel framed buildings due to fire, all occurring on the same day, when one wasn't even badly damaged compared to surrounding buildings, is EXTREMELY improbable, yet anyone who believes the official story believes that????

Remember: it is the first and only time a steel framed building has collapsed due to fire. Ever. The ONLY place that could happen is in a movie.

This is playing like a broken record now:

WTC7 owner said on the record
We made a decision to pull the building.

The BBC reported 23 minutes too early
We're getting reports that the Soloman Brothers Building has collapsed

Add to that, the sudden disappearance of the BBC live archives, and a blog entry from the archive manager (IIRC) saying they are not part of any conspiracy, is frankly, extremely odd, considering all that occurred within 12 hours of the first mention of the fact. Anyone that was here on ATS would have seen how quickly videos were disappearing from archives. No sooner were they posted elsewhere, were they pulled again.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by Essedarius

Okay sure. That’s why I would invade Venezuela, whose estimated oil reserves DWARF Iraq. They are also closer and come complete with an evil dictatorial leader that I could overthrow to the joy of all.

Yeah but Venezuela isn't as easy of a target as Iraq now is it.

Originally posted by Essedarius
Sure. Why is murdering 3,000 civilians a precursor to that? I’d just get up and give a great speech along the lines of “There’s another Hitler on the loose and I won’t sit idly by and blah blah blah…”

You still don't know? Tell me, how do you turn anit-war Americans, into pro-war Americans? Let me tell you... Murder 1000's of Americans, and then point the finger and say "they did it". Make sure you don't directly point the finger, but use your whole hand and arm, so when some asks "who exactly?", you are just pointing into a crowed of people, and still not giving a clear answer. That way, you can pretty much make anyone you need a valid target.

Originally posted by Essedarius
The NWO. God bless it. It’s like the fortress of solitude for conspiracy dorks.
.

Conspiracy dorks?? Thanks for the insult.. Oh yeah, try to tell that to Bush senior, he will have you killed.

Originally posted by Essedarius
The bottom line is that if 9/11 was to be used in any way to establish the NWO then Bush would have made a greater attempt to do so in October of 2001. Hell, he could have instigated marshal law in the U.S. with probably very little resistance during that time. But he didn’t…
.

Patriot Act anyone? Its there.... Also, I'm sure Bush doesn't want mass riots.

Originally posted by Essedarius
Are you telling me that it makes MORE sense that he would wait until the environment was FAR LESS fertile for change, then make his move?
.

The elections were fixed, just so Bush can be president. (thanks to Bush's bro in florida). Another coincidence? They made their move, right after they positioned their game pieces in the right spot, 911 was a check, Iraq's oil was a checkmate. They didn't care about any enironment, thats obvious.

Originally posted by Essedarius

But if there was a way to achieve your motives without sticking your neck out and indirectly partaking in a mass murder, I think you'd choose the easy way.
.

There is no "easy way" to make anti-war Americans into pro-war Americans.

Originally posted by Essedarius
What’s insane is implying that a president who has NEVER CARED about popular opinion would suddenly decide that he needs the greatest act of presidential treachery in history to justify his actions.

That’s idiocy.
.

You are exactly right about "never cared about popular opinion". Thats why Bush was chosen to carry out this master plan. They knew a LOT of people would dislike him.. Its actually idiocy to use the term "greatest act of presidential treachery in history" while trying to disprove the motive I describe as being just that.

Originally posted by Essedarius
21 men with a united vision and goal versus 1,000 government employees with diversified payoffs and understandings of a complex and secretive operation.
Odds are on the 21 men, however unlikely that may seem.

You put your odds on 21 men with box cutters. Against 1000? Why 1000? government employees with unlimited resources. Unlimited knowledge of security, intelligence, unlimited access to remotly controlled jets, explosives, and missiles. Unlimited access to roadways, telephones, powersources, and internet.. Wow, you are hanging off the side of a cliff, and the only thing keeping you up is a thin hair.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

The collapse of not one, not two, but three steel framed buildings due to fire, all occurring on the same day, when one wasn't even badly damaged compared to surrounding buildings, is EXTREMELY improbable, yet anyone who believes the official story believes that???? The ONLY place that could happen is in a movie.

Remember: it is the first and only time a steel framed building has collapsed due to fire. Ever.

Where ANYWHERE in the Media, NIST, FEMA, 911 commision, ASCE, etc ..etc does it say these buildings collapsed from fire?? YOU are saying that...as do others. We all remember there were a couple airplanes involved that day going VERY fast.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by CameronFox]

Originally posted by whiterabbit
So then why do you believe in thermite, even though no evidence of thermite was ever found? You can't prove it, but you seem to 100% believe in it.

This is why I believe it:



Wow, photo evidence. Want video evidence? I'm sure you can find it on YouTube. Oh and, Dr. Steven Jones found evidence of a thermite reaction on a piece of steel.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You see, I have more supporting evidence of thermite, than you do that thermite wasn't used.

Where is your evidence that thermite WASN'T used???

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
The collapse of not one, not two, but three steel framed buildings due to fire, all occurring on the same day, when one wasn't even badly damaged compared to surrounding buildings, is EXTREMELY improbable

There's nothing improbable about it. Just because someone doesn't understand how it happens, doesn't mean it didn't happen that way. And from what I can see, the majority of Truthers disbelieve in the official story because they don't personally see how the building could have fallen.

There's tons of scientific evidence for why it happened. But I know, I know, the all the guys at Popular Mechanics and NIST are either incompetent or on the government payroll.

Remember: it is the first and only time a steel framed building has collapsed due to fire. Ever.

First time a building had support columns sheared by a jet and had its fireproofing knocked off by a jet going 500 mph.

Ever.

Originally posted by lizziex3
...have you looked at the passenger lists?

oh, and you have less proof for your theories than I have for mine so stop making that argument.

Yes I have looked at the passenger list. You know what? It was changed many many times. Don't you recall the media saying how the original list didn't have the hijackers? Also, where did you get your list from? Please explain?

No, sorry I have more proof of my theorys than you.. dont kid yourself.

Nice to see the 911 Cult still alive, I like a good laugh

After all this time if there were really any real evidence outside of the minds of the paranoid 911 Cultists it would have surfaced and brought an end to the bickering. But no, there is no evidence to back the Cultists theory / hypothesis / delusion.

IMHO, The world seems to have. for the most part, accepted the official line. The reason that people like me cannot be persuaded to join the 911 Cult is that we need evidence. Not speculation. Not dodgy video. Not grainy photos. Not misquoted or poorly interpreted statements. But evidence. Evidence that will stand up to legal scrutiny. Evidence that will not stand up to legal scrutiny is not evidence worth a measure. If the 911 Cult had evidence of their fantasy I am sure that they would have produced it by now.

911 Cult you have made the allegations, it is for you to produce the burden of proof positive of your claims. PROOF!! Not the usual guff and opinion we see here on these boards and out on the 911 Cult sites.

Where are the successful legal actions against the official line. I hear you now "The judiciary are in on it too!"

All I see are some converted followers / fanatics and some people making a bit of fame and dosh out of it all.

Perhaps the 911 Conspiracy Cult board needs to go in the Paranormal Forum. I understand that there, they believe belief and positive thought can make things happen. So 911 Cultists make friends with the Spoonbenders and maybe their Pyschic powers can make your dreams come true

Connected...do oyu know how much thermite it would have taken to have a reaction to steel like that? Seriously do you? I believe I do... this was also investigated and was said to be aluminum from the plane that slammed in there.

Originally posted by Connected
This is why I believe it:

Wow, photo evidence.

That's not molten steel. That's freaking melted aluminum with lots of contaminants.

Oh and, Dr. Steven Jones found evidence of a thermite reaction on a piece of steel.

Wrong.

He found sulfidation--sulfur. Sulfur was all over that building. It could've come from anywhere. It was even in the drywall.

Jones just ASSUMED it was from thermite.

You see, I have more supporting evidence of thermite, than you do that thermite wasn't used.

How in the world could I have evidence of something NOT being there? How does that even make sense?

There is no evidence that thermite was there. If there had been, there would be evidence.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by whiterabbit]

Originally posted by CameronFox
Connected...do oyu know how much thermite it would have taken to have a reaction to steel like that? Seriously do you? I believe I do... this was also investigated and was said to be aluminum from the plane that slammed in there.

Yeah I do, a large tank of thermite in a large jet liner would do the job right?

Originally posted by CameronFox
#1 Reason why we believe in the Official Story....

They have proof. You do not.

Problem is your missing the main proof. You do not have the FBI and NTSB reports from any of the crash scenes. Until you have them thier is no real proof of what happened on 911.

Originally posted by whiterabbit

That's not molten steel. That's freaking melted aluminum with lots of contaminants.

Were is your evidence?

Originally posted by whiterabbit
Wrong.

He found sulfidation--sulfur. Sulfur was all over that building.

Where is your evidence? I still dont see any.

Originally posted by Connected
Yeah I do, a large tank of thermite in a large jet liner would do the job right?

That's the best one yet.

The government pulled off the biggest covert operation in our history, but they put the incendiary device in the plane where it could've gone sailing out the back of the building or something?

Not a chance.

Originally posted by Connected




Yes I have looked at the passenger list. You know what? It was changed many many times. Don't you recall the media saying how the original list didn't have the hijackers? Also, where did you get your list from? Please explain?

No, sorry I have more proof of my theorys than you.. dont kid yourself.

No the passneger list has NEVER changed.... well... the orignal manifest has never changed. The list that was supplied to the media left the highjackers off the list out of respect for the victims families...as far as the manifest goes...the Boston Globe got access to it and published it several years ago.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by CameronFox]

Originally posted by T Trubballshoota
911 Cult you have made the allegations, it is for you to produce the burden of proof positive of your claims. PROOF!!

Where is your proof?

NIST? FEMA? ASCE? HAHAHAHAH They don't even have proof. They have estimated guesses...

Please show us your proof..

Originally posted by CameronFox
No the passneger list has NEVER changed.... well... the orignal manifest has never changed. The list that was supplied to the media left the highjackers off the list out of respect for the victims families...as far as the manifest goes...the Boston Globe got access to it and published it several years ago.

Evidence where is your evidence? Man I can play this card all day.

Do you have evidence that the list was not tampered with? You just told me yourself that they "left the highjackers off the list", and in the same sentence you claim that the passanger list never changed... WOW you have reached rock bottom.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by Connected

Originally posted by T Trubballshoota
911 Cult you have made the allegations, it is for you to produce the burden of proof positive of your claims. PROOF!!

Where is your proof?

NIST? FEMA? ASCE? HAHAHAHAH They don't even have proof. They have estimated guesses...

Please show us your proof..

"They couldnt figure it out...NIST...ASCE...well you know what that means... THAT BASTARD BUSH BLEW IT UP!!"

Connected...read the NIST report...stay off of Alex Jones site...he caters to the kids that went to school on the little bus licking the windows.

Originally posted by Connected
Were is your evidence?

Dude, you're the one challenging the official story. You're the one that needs to provide evidence. Show me how you conclude that is melted steel from thermite.

Because the conventional wisdom is that it's melted aluminum. That's what Popular Mechanics determined, and I believe the NIST as well.

Where is your evidence? I still dont see any.

The evidence on the sulfur is in the link YOU posted! It's talking about how Jones found evidence of certain things on the steel he received--sulfur, iron, etc.

As people have pointed out, to Jones and many other people, time and time again, those substances could have come from ANYWHERE. They don't in any way shape or form prove thermite.

Originally posted by CameronFox

Connected...read the NIST report...stay off of Alex Jones site...he caters to the kids that went to school on the little bus licking the windows.

I have read the NIST report 100's of times, Ive used it against you debunkers many times...

You do know that in the NIST report they say all of their writings were created from "pictures and videos" right? Also that they had no access to any of the material at ground zero right? They also say its all an estimation nothing solid, right??

I hope you didn't miss that fact when you read the NIST report.

Originally posted by Connected
Man I can play this card all day.

You can keep saying it, but it doesn't really work when you're trying to DISPROVE something.

If you're challenging what the majority of the scientific community says about something, the burden of proof is on YOU to show that isn't true.

Screaming for everyone else to show proof for the accepted claim doesn't cut it.

You want to prove it's not true, YOU need to show evidence. And if your theory about thermite was correct, there WOULD be evidence. There would be evidence EVERYWHERE.