Bob Lazar and Element 115

reply to post by Byrd


I don't recall him saying the element itself had anti-gravity properties. He said it was fuel for an anti-gravity device.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Autowrench:


I too am a big fan of Bob's, John Lear has shared a few stories about him, and I believe what he said he did, back engineer ET craft. I also think there are a lot more elements than we know about. Several have alluded to that in the past. I also happen to think, and wish, that Bob had kept quiet for awhile longer, and found out a few more things.....

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by metricmaker

 

Ah but who's to say the useful 115 that supposedly was used was not created in a lab? Hypothetically if Bob Lazar is telling the truth then it was used for interstellar travel. Would it have to be a natural element or one stumbled upon (we also stumbled upon it). Then conditions where tweaked (aka density core temperature etc.) to make 115 stable enough for the long haul. We know many ways of manipulating atoms perhaps a method was discovered by those to whom the craft was made for slowing the decay process. This is all speculation of course for the sake of argument but it shouldn't be ruled out. Do not be so quick to dismiss that which requires more study on our part. It is either a big dud or the greatest discovery in the history of mankind. Even though it may be a dud we should at least check first. Perhaps one day this dud will become more useful with future technologies.

Oh and never say you are "Higher Educated" that makes you sound arrogant. English was not Einstein's best subject after all. Keep your pineal gland in check please.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by DaMod]

I agree with you to an extent that anybody can speculate about anything, and maybe we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss it or rule it out, and the word "impossible" should be used sparingly.

But speculating about things we know little about with little or no evidence has limited value, unless you plan to conduct some experiments to try to confirm or reject the speculation/hypothesis.

And even if we can't use the word "impossible" since we don't always know what is impossible, we can make judgments on what is likely based on the best knowledge we have.

Personally I might have found Lazar credible if he had just left out the part about this element 115, which is highly improbable. Only about 30 atoms made (besides the 500 pounds claimed but not proven) and the most stable isotope has a half life of 1 minute. Even if made in a lab, it would be hard to get it from the lab to the ship before it decayed away. I know these half-lives are all mumbo-jumbo numbers to people that haven't studied nuclear physics. So let's look at the opinion of somebody who has, nuclear physicist Stanton Friedman:

www.v-j-enterprises.com...

Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years.....

Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 -- matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. He came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims.

It is all BUNK.

As for education, I'd rather discuss nuclear physics with Stanton Friedman than someone with an 8th grade education, not that there's anything wrong with being less educated. You can discuss a wide range of topics intelligently without a lot of education, but I don't think nuclear physics is one of those subjects. It's a lot easier for people who just don't know any better due to their LACK of education to believe wild statements about element 115.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by Arbitrageur someone with an 8th grade education,

It's a lot easier for people who just don't know any better due to their LACK of education to believe wild statements about element 115.

So your claiming now that Bob only has an 8th grade education?

Ever chat with him? You know that power system is very easy to understand... you don't need a degree in nuclear physics to understand it

Maybe one day I will write my version... but in the meantime... no one gonna pick up the Bismuth angle?

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by metricmaker

 

Ah but who's to say the useful 115 that supposedly was used was not created in a lab? Hypothetically if Bob Lazar is telling the truth then it was used for interstellar travel. Would it have to be a natural element or one stumbled upon (we also stumbled upon it). Then conditions where tweaked (aka density core temperature etc.) to make 115 stable enough for the long haul. We know many ways of manipulating atoms perhaps a method was discovered by those to whom the craft was made for slowing the decay process. This is all speculation of course for the sake of argument but it shouldn't be ruled out. Do not be so quick to dismiss that which requires more study on our part. It is either a big dud or the greatest discovery in the history of mankind. Even though it may be a dud we should at least check first. Perhaps one day this dud will become more useful with future technologies.


[edit on 13-8-2009 by DaMod]

Thank you for your answer. First my apologies and a kind request not to understand me false. I am trying figure out if there is anything to the story.
What do you mean: Slowing down time of element 115 would be dependent on the mass of the element 115 or would it have this property anyway?

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by metricmaker

 

As I am higher educated, I never heard anything to confirm that massive bulks of fast-decaying elements show a difference in decay properties. I believe I could also show a more detailed proof why it has to be impossible for heavier elements to ever be among the primordinal elements of a solar system. If anybody is interested we could also go in that direction...

I agree with the decay properties part.

Perhaps you could show us why the heavier elements are not among the promordial elements in a solar system. We have heavier elements on earth like lead and element 92 and others. Is there a level above which they stop occurring naturally?

Actually there seems to be no (real) pattern to precisly predict what elements will appear as primordinal elements. This happens by chance. But one thing seems quite obviously: That from a supercomputer-simulation point of view the isotopic ratios and most probably also distribution of the element is definitely different "each time".
The question of elements stopping occouring naturally seems also to compete with immedate decay.
But to make this reason pronouncable we need to argue that element 115 is alleged to be absolutely stable.

But an alleged reason for elemtent 115 to occour naturally is simply adjusting ratios of the dominant forces? EM-Force and Gravitation.
Can we buy this ?

HERE is another interesting link:
(805kb pdf)

A Physical Review of the alleged propulsion system...

by

E Halerewicz Jr.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by metricmaker]



[edit on 14-8-2009 by metricmaker]

Originally posted by zorgon
but in the meantime... no one gonna pick up the Bismuth angle?

Bismuth and Element 115 are in the same family on the periodic table.

Element 115 is also known as Eku-Bismuth.

Everyone knows that, just not 'round here.

Bismuth is also being used in various forms of 'shielding' - and we all know what that really means....

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Arbitrageur someone with an 8th grade education,

It's a lot easier for people who just don't know any better due to their LACK of education to believe wild statements about element 115.

So your claiming now that Bob only has an 8th grade education?

Ever chat with him? You know that power system is very easy to understand... you don't need a degree in nuclear physics to understand it

Maybe one day I will write my version... but in the meantime... no one gonna pick up the Bismuth angle?

Originally posted by metricmaker
But an alleged reason for elemtent 115 to occour naturally is simply adjusting ratios of the dominant forces? EM-Force and Gravitation.
Can we buy this ?

By saying "believe wild statements" I was obviously referring to people listening to Bob Lazar, and nobody specifically, although people who think it's bad to say you're "higher educated" regardless of what education level they have, should understand that a higher education can be valuable for understanding nuclear physics.

What you say may be true about the power system, however what a nuclear physicist would probably tell you is why it's unlikely that there is a stable isotope of element 115, and even if an isotope formed in another solar system, once it moved into our solar system, it would likely be subject to the laws of physics in our solar system (that is, unstable with a short half life). So while understanding the power system may not require higher education in nuclear physics, my point is that understanding whether element 115 can even exist in a stable isotope or not, and why, would be easier with a higher education in nuclear physics.

No I never chatted with him. But Friedman had this to say about Lazar:
www.v-j-enterprises.com...

He couldn't even answer scientific questions put to him.

OK I'll bite, what's the Bismuth angle?

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Bismuth is also being used in various forms of 'shielding' - and we all know what that really means....

The active ingredient in Pepto-Bismol is bismuth subsalicylate

www.pepto-bismol.com...

We all know what that means...ok just in case we don't, I'll spell it out for you. If you go to Mexico and drink the water, better take some peptol-bismol with you to "shield" your stomach with bismuth.

If that's not what you were referring to, then I guess not everyone knows what you mean, you may have to spell it out for those of us who don't.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

I note that Bob mentions the E115 is under bombardment even during storage.

Maybe that's a little clue that's been missed?

Originally posted by Clickfoot
I note that Bob mentions the E115 is under bombardment even during storage.

Maybe that's a little clue that's been missed?

Makes no sense. Bombardment from what?

Originally posted by metricmaker
Makes no sense. Bombardment from what?

Cosmic Rays... from space

reply to post by Arbitrageur


"Shielding" = "gravity shielding". The PTB don't use terms like "anti-gravity" any more.

I am sure that you are aware that there is more than 1 single use for just about every element, right?

I have read the last page or so, and it seems that you spend far more time trying to bash the Bob Lazar strawman and just about zero time providing any real information that would refute Lazar. If you would like to come back with information that would refute Bob (and not just troll), I am sure that folks around here can dig up any number of pieces of information that actually support his statements.

You see, the thing is, no one here really knows (and if they do they aren't talking....yet). What we DO know is that Bob gave us this crazy story that science minded folks wish to dismiss out of hand. We also know that if you research some of the information surrounding the details of his story you can find some inconsistencies that lend credence to him being truthful.

Of course, you can preconcieve your notions...but that isn't truth. In the land of Preconcieved Notions there be a mean dragon called Ignorance.

edit to add: Stanton Friedman is a very smart man, but he is also one of "them": the PTB, the folks who uphold the status quo. At one point Friedman was doing good stuff, but he sold out to whatever special interests write checks to him.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by metricmaker
Makes no sense. Bombardment from what?

Don't know, it's been a very long time since I read his stuff. But he seemed to be suggesting this was how they were able to store it for long periods. I didn't pay much attention because at the time pretty much everyone seemed to think it was total crap.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by metricmaker
Makes no sense. Bombardment from what?

Cosmic Rays... from space

Everything on the surface of the earth is under bombardment of cosmic rays from outer space, in fact that's one reason they put ECC (error correcting) memory in servers, so a stray cosmic ray won't crash the system due to a memory error. If you have 4 Gigs of RAM in your PC and don't have ECC memory (almost nobody does) then you probably get several crashes a year due to cosmic ray bombardment.

But still I don't see the relevance of any of that to element 115.

Saying element 115 is under that kind of bombardment is nothing special when so is everything else, (except for things deep in a bunker where the cosmic rays can be reduced) so what's the point in even mentioning that?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
If you would like to come back with information that would refute Bob (and not just troll), I am sure that folks around here can dig up any number of pieces of information that actually support his statements.

I thought I was providing information that refutes Bob by pointing out the extreme unlikelihood of a stable isotope of element 115 even existing on the earth's surface. Notice I didn't use the word "impossible", there could be a quirk in the periodic table of the elements or nuclear physics that the general public doesn't know about yet, or maybe no earthlings know about it, but aliens do.

Maybe some tiny shred of any evidence whatsoever that such a stable form of an isotope of element 115 even COULD exist would be nice, but I haven't found one.

I also refuted his explanation that it was made elsewhere (apparently maybe Bob also knows it's unstable here) by saying that even if that were so, once moved to the earth it would be subjected to earth physics.

I guess what I consider exposing the truth and refuting Bob, you consider trolling. If that's not what you meant by refuting Bob, perhaps you could be more clear about what you mean, as I thought that's exactly what I was doing.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


There are things that are not my place to discuss as they are fish that i did not catch. Does that make sense?


But, if i were to attempt to talk around it a little, let us suppose that you create an environment in which the laws of physics are distorted. Consider, if you were to have a wormhole (even on a small scale), you would have an environment within which the laws of physics are far different than they are externally.

So, we have a concept for a storage system (there are other concepts that might work because, as you should well know, the mysteries of the universe are not always known by all...many knock on the door but only a few are let in).

The arguement you present seems to be more about a lack of imagination and experience with what is likely happening behind the wizards curtain. I truly to not mean to sound rude, harsh, or mean. Please do not take me this way. I am just trying to speak honestly.

Bob Lazar may be a crank. Then again, he may not be. There is nothing he has said thus far that tells me for certain that he isn't, but there are lots of things he has said that i have been able to corroborate independantly to a degree that i do believe there is a 90% certainty that his story is true in its entirety.

You ARE aware of the ability of LANL to create black holes in the lab using lasers, correct? I mean, it is not that hard to imagine a manipulating with localized space areas creating a bubble of reality that has a different nature than its surrounding area. And it is very interesting to me that Bob is now working at LANL (or, the home of the "Predator", according to Zorgon's sources).

Just my personal opinion.....

Personally (from research and other sources) I find it somewhat unlikely that the US government (and others maybe) do not posses "anti-gravity" technology. If you look at the science available since the early 20th century and the apparent "public gap" in technology I feel that it would be no surprise if indeed there were some type of AG system. There is nothing in physics that prevent gravity manipulation--given the right apparatus. Now if it came from aliens or not is another story, personally I do not rule that out, but that is just me.

Just looking at the advanced physics principles being tested by the NAZIs and then furthered after Project Paperclip by the US and Soviets(had there own transfer program) I feel it is not that huge of a stretch to take just what we are allowed to know today and consider what trillions of dollars of research by the brightest minds could do within just a few decades, let alone over 6.

As far as element 115, or Ununpentium goes just because our current public sciences can not make it stable for any length of time does not make it impossible to do so. Keep in mind that it does fall within the theoretical Island of Stability of nuclear physics. It also shows some types of relativistic properties(public knowledge) so I can believe that indeed 115 could possibly be able to manipulate gravity waves as is claimed by Lazar. Just my two cents without recovering all of the things already covered.

This is a great thread, excellent discussions guys.