Real Talk about White Privilege

Originally posted by grover
There's nothing more pathetic than a white man in America whining about his lot in life.

Oh grover .. I was with you until that.

There are poor white people in America just as there are poor _______ (fill in the blank) people. There are white people who are treated as trash just as there are ______ (fill in the blank) people treated as trash.

There are 300 million Americans of every color, size, shape, background, religion, etc etc ... and no one group corners the market on having had a hard life or having been mistreated. There is enough misery to go around.

Originally posted by truthseeka
I specifically said that I MOVED to give the lady space.

So... If you move away from a white person, it's out of respect or "to give them space", but if a white person moves away from you, they're a "racist tart"... Hmmm... Interesting.

Why did you move away from her in the first place? Is it because you assume that she's racist because she's white? Do you assume that because she's a white woman, she's going to be uncomfortable having you stand a normal, natural distance away from her in line? Do you realize the judgments you're making against this white person because of their skin color?

Did it ever occur to you that YOUR move away from her is what triggered her to be suspicious of you? And NOT the fact that you're black? Why do you not just go about your business in the world and NOT worry about what other people think of your "blackness"? If you had stayed in your natural place in line, perhaps this "encounter" wouldn't have played out the way it did.

If someone stepped back from me in line, I might think they were "sizing me up" or maybe they thought I was gross... smelled bad, perhaps? Or maybe, just maybe, she thought YOU were the racist one! Maybe she thought, since you made an unnatural move in line that YOU hated white people! Maybe that's why she in return gave you your space!

Maybe YOU made the whole thing happen because of your preconceived ideas about white women. Maybe you prejudged her!

Or maybe she was just a "racist tart". :shk:

Privilege has nothing to do with wealth in this context Flyer. You are probably too young to remember All in the Family but there is a famous scene when Lineal asks Michael to go jogging with him. Archie asks Lineal why does he need Michael to go with him. To which Lineal replies if Archie would want to be black running down the street at dawn in this neighborhood? Archie conceded the point.

The point being is that as a white male you have certain unwritten freedoms such as the freedom to go jogging in a neighborhood at dawn without being stopped or reported. Or for that matter, the freedom not to be stopped by the police simply because you are driving black. There are so many little things like that even though Jim crow is no longer in place, still apply. Better service at your bank is another. Better loan rates (though they are not supposed to do that it happens all the time). Hell just not being a suspect simply because you are black is a big one.

Originally posted by grover


The point being is that as a white male you have certain unwritten freedoms such as the freedom to go jogging in a neighborhood at dawn without being stopped or reported. Or for that matter, the freedom not to be stopped by the police simply because you are driving black.

Well, I'll just have to tell my buddy Reggie that he can't go jogging anymore. Or that we can't go out at night in his Escalade because he might get stopped. And that he'd better forget about moving out of the neighborhood into that $600K home that his wife picked out, because he just has to return the mortgage guarantee that he got.

I really feel bad for the guy; he is so disadvantaged.

Edit: Fix BB code

[edit on 7-3-2007 by jsobecky]

You know damned good and well what I mean josbecky so can the sarcasm. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and thankfully things have changed dramatically since I was growing up in the south. Doesn't change the fact one iota that if you are white and male in this country you have advantages over both women and minorities.

Reggie is a good guy, but he's no exception, grover. He's the rule for those who asssume responsibility for their lot in life.

Originally posted by shooterbrody
Unless your a mind-reader(in which case I would recommend a thread at ATS) you don't know what thoughts are going through peoples minds when they make these "offensive" gestures. Have you ever asked any of these alledeged raceists why they moved away from you or looked at you sideways?

Oh, PLEASE.

I've experienced these things ENOUGH times from members of a certain demographic to know what she was thinking. I wouldn't expect you to understand, though...

Truth just what are the actions of a racist tart before being "jacked". Do you know these actions from personal experience? Were you the "jacker" or just a passerby? Surely you wouldn't have assumed what those actions would be, would you?

See previous statement.

Truth, please allow me as a "white" person, to offer you a hug. Not all "white" people hate you, some just mildly dislike you.
Like I asked you pages ago....Why do you care what anyone else thinks about you?

I don't need a hug from you. What I DO need is for you to stop stretching my statements and read what I post. I ALREADY said this was some white people, NOT every single white I meet. Nice try, though.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF CRAP ... I HAVE EVER HEARD ... I am a White Male ... and I can't even get financing .. PERIOD ... I have held down a job for more than 3 years ... and have 2k in the bank as a downpayment ... ... Would have 5k but just bought an engagment ring ...

Originally posted by grover
Privilege has nothing to do with wealth in this context Flyer. You are probably too young to remember All in the Family but there is a famous scene when Lineal asks Michael to go jogging with him. Archie asks Lineal why does he need Michael to go with him. To which Lineal replies if Archie would want to be black running down the street at dawn in this neighborhood? Archie conceded the point.

The point being is that as a white male you have certain unwritten freedoms such as the freedom to go jogging in a neighborhood at dawn without being stopped or reported. Or for that matter, the freedom not to be stopped by the police simply because you are driving black. There are so many little things like that even though Jim crow is no longer in place, still apply. Better service at your bank is another. Better loan rates (though they are not supposed to do that it happens all the time). Hell just not being a suspect simply because you are black is a big one.

Originally posted by chissler
So black men say hi to you, because you are black? And whites walk by you, or give some fake, tight-lipped smile, in a gratuitous fashion, because you are black? A lot of emphasis on your skin color here. Maybe whites walk by you, as they do plenty of other whites, because they are busy. Are you trying to say that blacks do not walk by you without acknowledging you at all? Or is it that you only focus, or emphasize, on the whites. Because if a white person does it, they are most certainly a bigot.

Hey, this society is why non-whites focus on their skin color. See, that goes along with white privilege; whites are not burdened with the task of thinking about their race every day. As for your question about blacks doing this, read a little further down.

Have you ever heard of perception? You are a bright person, so certainly you have. You seem to focus on the color of your skin, so maybe you are perceiving these events in a light that is undeserved. When I go in an elevator, I go to the corner. Even if there are only "Whities" in the elevator with me. When I walk down the street, I give others who are walking in the other direction, plenty of room as we pass. If I do this to a white person, it is fine, but if I do it to a black person, I am a bigot?

OK...

Do you move to the corner with fear in your eyes? As for the sidewalk issue, you also need to read what I said. I wasn't referencing walking past someone; common sense is you give the person plenty of room. What I AM referencing is some whites who, the MINUTE they see you coming, move OFF of the sidewalk towards the street, or just cross the street immediately. Big difference there.

Do you not see how much you are playing this "black" card. Why do you think they walked passed you because you are black? Maybe they are busy, in a hurry, talking on a cell phone, etc. Does every person you meet on the side walk greet you?

No, I don't.

First off, this was a response to shooter, who asked if some black people did the things I mentioned some white people do. This is why you are misunderstanding me here.

You have tried hard over the last few weeks to indicate some "inner demon" of the white population. What I have seen, is you acknowledging the inner demon that exists with you . You assume people ignore you because you are black, and they are white, that is racism.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by chissler]

If you say so. IME, plenty of white people do a fine job of this themselves.

Originally posted by truthseeka


I don't need a hug from you. What I DO need is for you to stop stretching my statements and read what I post. I ALREADY said this was some white people, NOT every single white I meet.

Nice try, though.

Well I think this thread is over now TRUTH .... Thanks for finally saying exactly what you meant ... But categorizing all white people in those few that are still racists.

The 5% of them that are out there do tend to stay to themselves and would never go out of thier way to put you out. Although if you live your life liek you OBVIOUSLY are saying ALLLLLL White people have more priveledge you are STEREOTYPING .... Who knows maybe you would be a good MOVIE CRITIC.

GO PUT YOUR STEREOTYPING SKILLS TO USE

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So... If you move away from a white person, it's out of respect or "to give them space", but if a white person moves away from you, they're a "racist tart"... Hmmm... Interesting.

Typical word-twisting BH.

COMMON SENSE would tell you I was giving the woman space, as I didn't know her. COMMON SENSE would tell you that there's a difference between moving to maintain social space and moving as soon as you go for your money because you think someone's going to rob you.

Why did you move away from her in the first place? Is it because you assume that she's racist because she's white? Do you assume that because she's a white woman, she's going to be uncomfortable having you stand a normal, natural distance away from her in line? Do you realize the judgments you're making against this white person because of their skin color?

Nah, but I do realize the contortion you're doing with my words here.

Did it ever occur to you that YOUR move away from her is what triggered her to be suspicious of you? And NOT the fact that you're black? Why do you not just go about your business in the world and NOT worry about what other people think of your "blackness"? If you had stayed in your natural place in line, perhaps this "encounter" wouldn't have played out the way it did.

Please. IME, black people can't just go about their business without some white people acting like racist pricks. Besides, you're not making sense. If someone moves AWAY from you, why do you think that person's going to take your money? Wouldn't you be MORE suspicious of a person moving TOWARDS you?

If someone stepped back from me in line, I might think they were "sizing me up" or maybe they thought I was gross... smelled bad, perhaps? Or maybe, just maybe, she thought YOU were the racist one! Maybe she thought, since you made an unnatural move in line that YOU hated white people!

Maybe that's why she in return gave you your space!

Yeah, yeah, yeah (yawn).

Maybe YOU made the whole thing happen because of your preconceived ideas about white women. Maybe you prejudged her!

Or maybe she was just a "racist tart". :shk:

Of course, as there's NO WAY this woman did this because she thinks black males are all criminals. Probably me, ok.

So far, you, shooter, becky, and FF have said the same thing, i.e. it was me and not the woman. Don't think I'm surprised about this or that I didn't expect this...

Enough about my RL experience, which y'all have PLENTY to say about. I'd like to see if y'all have as much to say about this. This is a previous post, but don't worry, I'll be back with more examples such as this.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Face it. Whites have been historically privileged in America. A look at the books can verify this.

Chinese Exclusion Act

An example of a blatantly racist law that lasted for a long time. I mean, the very NAME shows the racism. A comparison with the next law shows white privilege.

Naturalization act of 1790

Excerpt from the act:

..any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for a term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof.

Another blatantly racist law. Citizenship to the US (ironically in a country inhabited by non-Europeans at the SAME TIME) was restricted to whites. Even free blacks were excluded. So, we can see that white immigrants could become citizens in the US by virtue of their skin color. The white privilege is too obvious here.

The infamous Dred Scott decision of 1856 is one of a number of the Supreme Court's disgustingly racist rulings. From the ruling:

A free Negro of the African race, whose ancestors were brought to this country and sold as slaves, is not a 'citizen' within the meaning of the Constitution of the United States...Consequently, the special rights and immunities guarantied to citizens do not apply to them.

The white privilege could not be clearer from this ruling. Black people, free or slaves, were NOT citizens of the US. So, the special rights and immunities (PRIVILEGES) were NOT granted to people of African descent. Interesting.

Another nasty contribution from the Supreme Court was the Plessy v. Ferguson decision of 1896. The infamous "separate but equal" crap comes from this ruling. Jim Crow and segregation CLEARLY shows white privilege; the separate life, basically, for whites was QUITE privileged, compared to life under Jim Crow for blacks.

It's amazing that most of the white responders to this thread say white privilege doesn't exist when the US was FOUNDED, in large part, on the principles of white supremacy and white privilege.:shk:

[edit on 6-3-2007 by truthseeka]

[edit on 6-3-2007 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by grover
I am white and I am male and I have never in my 51 years felt discriminated against because of either.

I also grew up in the south in the 60's and I have seen discrimination first hand and it is not pretty and it is not right.

That is why I tell deus to grow up and stop whining. He has no clue what he is talking about.

There's nothing more pathetic than a white man in America whining about his lot in life.

Give me a bloody break.
[edit on 7-3-2007 by grover]

Thanks for that contribution, grover. As for Deus...well, I don't know what to say about that cat.

You don't know what to say about me ... Because I am from a new generation and I am sorry that you saw what it was like in the 60's before you even had a TV. Then they came out with BLACK AND WHITE TV'S .... Really wanted to say .... You know whats funny ... I want to say _ _ _ _ _ _ and _ _ _ _ _ _ TV .... But someone may get to offended ... If you were around me ... and you heard me say it you would laugh ... Yet , on here you would just get a hatred for me ... Because you would just think Racism.

I am sorry that you don't knwo what to think about this cat. And I am sorry that since I was not even born untill 1983 that I don't know and PRIMARILY don't give a FLYIN _ _ _ _ about anything that that went on before I was borned into this world. As I heard enough about it whenever I was yound and had to STUDY it is SOCIAL STUDIES ... Growing up ... MAYBE I WAS BRAIN WASHED into thinking that there was no difference in between me and a black , green, Hairy, stinky, or GROSS person. Besides the fact that whenever they are Stinky or Hairy it might be alittle NON-APETIZING to be around.

The world is a different place then it was back in 1960's 70's 80's 90's ... We are in a new MILLENIA .... WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So... If you move away from a white person, it's out of respect or "to give them space", but if a white person moves away from you, they're a "racist tart"... Hmmm... Interesting.

Simplification at it's best.

Originally posted by grover
You are probably too young to remember All in the Family ...

grover .. you just made my day!

Originally posted by truthseeka
... have said the same thing, i.e. it was me and not the woman.

considering that you admit to getting your kicks this way -

Originally posted by truthseeka
I jump at whites who show fear in their eyes. You should see them fall all over themselves when I do this.

I move towards whites who start going the other way, as well as those who move away in the elevator or move to count their money. ...

OF COURSE we are going to say it's you.

That and the fact that you have shown that you don't understand the concept of personal space. EVERYONE moves away from people in an elevator. EVERYONE wants privacy when they pay at a store, or go out to eat, or at an ATM.

truthseeka .. you are funny. Really. You have completely defined yourself as the victimized and hated black man devoid of any personal responsibility for his own situation. Any attempt to make you see reality will fail because it would mean that you would have to totally redefine your 'self' .... and that would be too difficult for you to acknowlege and do at this point.

So further discussion of your 'perception' at this time is useless and a waste of time.

I'm done here ....

It's amazing that most of the white responders to this thread say white privilege doesn't exist when the US was FOUNDED, in large part, on the principles of white supremacy and white privilege.

WHITE PRIVLEDGES MAY HAVE EXISTED BEFORE I WAS BORN OR EVEN POSSIBLY WHENEVER I WAS TO YOUNG TO SEE SUCH PREJUDICE .

But NOW ... I see not prejudice accept for in black neighborhoods where I am the only white person I see around. Cept for possibly one crack head that I have seen that was a white 30 year old guy that lives on the streets. Now this is in DIBOLL, TX .... Where my Brother-n-law is from ... anyways ... You outta see me out there playing basketball some people will simple LEAVE the park whenever I get there. It is because they are PREJUDICE ... and I DARE come to thier PARK ... Yes they think that they OWN IT .... it is crazy ... My brother-n-law takes up for me ... Because if they ask me to leave I would just leave .. But he says "HELL NAH" ... he is staying ... It has only been crazy like that twice outta the many numerous times I have been down there. Anyways ... I guess prejudice is not PRIVLEDGE. But if I was so privledged you would think I would be able to go anywhere and have all these privledges. OH YEAH ... Also there are a couple other place here in Lufkin ... I would not dare venture to ... Such as a park down off of MLK BLVD. And also I used to live in Houston and down there white do not go to 3rd WARD .... Because there is the possibility you would be killed one way or another. For sure you would be Harrased ... I know this from first hand experience ... And it doesn't even matter if you are with some black people if you are white you WILL BE TREATED DIFFERENT not EQUAL .... ODDD ... We have all the privledges ... hAHAHAHA ... Should I GO ON ... I can go to Atlanta and name a few places there as well ... Especially in Georgia ... Near Athens ...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Typical word-twisting BH.

You always accuse me of twisting your words, when I use YOUR EXACT WORDS!

Please. IME, black people can't just go about their business without some white people acting like racist pricks.

And white people can't just go about their business without some black people acting like racist jerks. This is Life 101. This is not a one-sided deal. Some people are racist. All you can control is whether or not YOU are. And by what you have said, you're not doing that great of a job, IMO.

Besides, you're not making sense. If someone moves AWAY from you, why do you think that person's going to take your money?

I said. They might be sizing me up.

Wouldn't you be MORE suspicious of a person moving TOWARDS you?

Not if we were standing in a line. It doesn't really matter what I or anyone would think. What matters is what SHE thought. And you have decided that for us all. You have decided her motives, her thought process without ever having spoken a word to her and you have made her a "racist tart". Case closed... Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah (yawn).

Good response. Way to take responsibility for your actions. Oh, sorry, I forgot. You don't do that. It's always the racist tart's or the racist prick's fault... Never yours... Got it.

Of course, as there's NO WAY this woman did this because she thinks black males are all criminals.

I didn't say that. I'm just asking you to entertain the possibility that your perception of the situation might be skewed. You have your mind made up that it's all about you being black and I'm just saying you really could be wrong. I'm just saying that maybe if you had stayed in line in a normal position and given her a genuine smile if she made eye contact with you, you might have had a very different experience.

If you didn't move around in this world with your blackness being the thing that's foremost in your mind and act in a way that brings that to the forefront, you might create a different experience for yourself.

I don't often use the word "should"... But you should be yourself! You should be the genuine person that you are. You shouldn't go about life with your preconceived idea of what people are thinking of you. Trust me, we don't think of your "blackness" nearly as much as you do. It's a much bigger deal for you than it is for us. (I know, I'm speaking for white people. Forgive me.)

So far, you, shooter, becky, and FF have said the same thing, i.e. it was me and not the woman.

I'm not saying it was you and not her. I'm saying it's possible. And the only way you could possibly know is if you would just be yourself and not "act" based on what you THINK other people THINK! That's whack! Just stand by the white lady as you would any other person! Smile at her if she looks at you. You might be really suprised at what you experience!

Edit:
I just saw this:

Originally posted by truthseeka
I jump at whites who show fear in their eyes. You should see them fall all over themselves when I do this.

I move towards whites who start going the other way, as well as those who move away in the elevator or move to count their money. ...

So, you treat white people like you're some sort of crazy black man and you wonder why they act the way they do??? You purposely try to scare people, then cry racism when they get scared??? Can you say Race Card???

You know what? You LIKE the way it is. You LOVE being the victim. You do things like this to perpetrate racism. It's clear you want white people to fear you or think you're going to rob them. Then you whine about it when they do! You feed racism! You thrive on it!

Shame on you, sir, for negating all the hard work your people have done to make relations between blacks and whites work. With your little game of "jumping at whites who show fear", you are reinforcing their fear and feeding racism. Congratulations. You will always be a "victim" of racism because that's exactly what you want.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

OR EVEN BETTER YET !!!! Find out if they are RACISTS ... Say something to them .... BTW .... Don't say ... "What it do?!" or "What it is?!" or "What's Popping" or "Whats Crackin, Pops!?"as I am white and I could say this to my Mom or Dad and they would look at me in a Racists way ... or What you would call a Racists WAY .. LOL .. yet they would be looking at thier SON ... HAHAHA ... Let me see people look at me Racists all the time if what you are saying is in FACT TRUE .... I AM RECOMENDING FOR THE WAY ABOvE TOP AWARD for Truthseeka ... Because he is really just there already he isn't here to learn or to Debate he is here to STATE THE FACTS that are Already instilled in him ... most likely by his mother and father .. Which by the way he acts wouldn't surprise me if they were HUNG or maybe burned at the stake ... Back in the 60's .... Almost like he has a vengence. I AM SORRY TRUTHSEEKA ... The Truth is right in front of you its not something that is hiding that you have to seek out ... THE TRUTH IS/HAS ALWAYS been there ... Even in the 60's when there was RACISM ... I wish we could FLASHBACK and have this Conversation then so you could really see what it is all about ....

OR EWWWW I HAVE A BETTER IDEA .. TRUTHSEEKA ... Let's go to a Church of Christ Christians (KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, Public Enemy # 1)Meeting and see what they have to say about our little rants ... I think we could actually see some racism and you might crap yourself ... LOL ... I might crap myself ... HAHAHAHAH

Truth, you are funny as hell acting like people get a free ride for being white. And I love how if a white person disagrees you say they are using white privilege. Hey some people have treated you badly cause your black, well that sucks but I get treated like that by black people sometimes too don't try to downplay my reality with your black privilege either.

[edit on 7-3-2007 by Scrub]