Real Talk about White Privilege

This is called Excuses ... and they are like assholes everyone's got one and they all stink. But that is coming from a Kid that is alittle slow ... By all means pick apark this posts ... LOL ...

Originally posted by grover
I can't speak for the older members here, nor for the younger ones either but I can speak about what I have observed.

I just spent 3 years studying graphic arts at a local community college as a second career and I saw a lot, and I do mean a lot of self absorbed children there just like deus for whom, if something didn't immediately affect them, then it wasn't real and if something did affect them, especially adversely, generally they reacted with indignant outrage. If they weren't interested in a subject they could talk while the teacher tried to teach around them or if THEY weren't (or their art) subject of conservation, then they were bored and barely tolerated it until the subject of conservation turned to them. Half the time I felt like they should have all been given through spankings and sent to their rooms, but to be fair there were a lot of good kids too but per usual, the brats stuck out.

I am speaking not about white privilege per say but in general. I was in a class with one specific kid though, who should have known better, he had been around, in the Marines etc but he was completely blind to the fact of how well he had it made, and since he was struggling, it was all someone else's fault, affirmative action, grade preference for minority students etc. when in reality the only thing holding him back was he was simply a dumb f, and not smart enough to know it. I know, I tutored him in English and later psychology and he had a hard time comprehending basic principles much less any thing complicated. AND since he disliked studying he blamed racial preference on the fact that the little Hindi girl who could barely speak English was getting A's and he was getting D's at best. She studied hard, he didn't.

Generally speaking I think that some men (white and also black) see minority's coming over her and busting their asses to get ahead, and blame it on preferences. Sometimes its true and sometimes it isn't. Each case is different. We have become soft and expect a lot more than our parents did, and when we see someone achieving, blame some other factor than hard work for helping them get ahead and fail to accept that often it is just plain stupidity (or bad credit or none or any other factor) holding us back.

I have lived in a black household and I have seen discrimination first hand and I grew up white in the south and remember jim crow... somethings have changed and some haven't. I do know this though, if you and I walk into an upscale shop, dressed identically, I will be waited on first. I would put money down on it and win because I have seen it time and again. You, a black man might be totally above board, and I might be a shoplifter, but the guards will follow you around while I make off with the store. THAT is white privilege.



[edit on 7-3-2007 by grover]

[edit on 7-3-2007 by grover]

Ah, grover, now I understand.

Deus reminds you of the younger people you deal with in your classes, so that's why you are pointing out his ignorance (self-proclaimed and proud of it). OK, do as you wish in this case. But, thanks for your last post. And, I'm not dumb enough to bet against you on that wager you mentioned; I'd bet WITH you first!

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well, I shouldnt of put it that way. But you are right. Employers will probably set such a resume to the side.

It is a really #ty deal though. I mean, sometime you dont feel like you have a home here in the USA and you cant really go back to africa either. I have seen the way they treat black americans over there, its like they blame them for their ancestors being captured and brought over here. Or maybe they are envious, hell I dont know. But I think that blacks use names like this to try to preserve some shred of their culture.

No, I'm GLAD you put it that way.

See, this trend goes along with non-whites being expected to comform to white society in America. God damn, you can't even name your kid a non-white ethnic name if you want them to have a decent chance at success in America. JUST like your house won't make you as much money if you sell it with non-white ethnic decor in it.

But, this indeed speaks to white privilege. A person with a white-sounding name is assumed to be smart and a good potential employee. A person with a non-white sounding name is assumed to be stupid, lazy, and not worth being employed.

Funny...on the 1st page, you spoke of WP as if it were a fantasy. Now, you acknowledge WP, at least in this context...

This is TOTAL BS, if you were dressed the same this would not happen. BUT, if I came in the store dressed THUGGED OUT and you came in in a suit and tie ... I WOULD BE THE ONE HANDLED FIRST ... Primarily because they want to get me IN AND OUT. Second of all that would not happen. As look around I see people all day long of different race. And the black people that come in if they are not dressed nice. (Dress, Slacks, or just getting off work in Work Clothes) they are dressed with sagging pants or Clothes that are 3 times to big for them that are falling off. The white people that come in that are not in dresses, Slacks, or just got off work and in working clothes are in HOLY Shirts that they have been handed down from someone else or possibly they found in the trash alot of the times wearing high waters or clothes that do not FIT as they are too small. NEVER NOT ONCE have I EVER seen a black person wear such things ??? Why is this ? Hmmm ... APIPHANY ... lol

Originally posted by grover

I have lived in a black household and I have seen discrimination first hand and I grew up white in the south and remember jim crow... somethings have changed and some haven't. I do know this though, if you and I walk into an upscale shop, dressed identically, I will be waited on first. I would put money down on it and win because I have seen it time and again. You, a black man might be totally above board, and I might be a shoplifter, but the guards will follow you around while I make off with the store. THAT is white privilege.



[edit on 7-3-2007 by grover]

[edit on 7-3-2007 by grover]

And if anyone should try to get any word BANNED here in AMERICA it should be that word below ... as it is worse than NIGGER could ever be because NIGGER has nothing to do with my GOD. And when you go into damning my GOD. You not only offend me .............

Originally posted by truthseeka


See, this trend goes along with non-whites being expected to comform to white society in America. God damn, you can't even name your kid a non-white ethnic name if you want them to have a decent chance at success in America. JUST like your house won't make you as much money if you sell it with non-white ethnic decor in it.

And you must not mean like Mohamed Ali ... or Cassius Clay ... or Oprah Winfrey ... Or Martin Lawrence , or Any of the rap singers that are out there ... or any of the other singers such as Mariah Carey ... or what about PAUL WALL .. oh wait he is not black ... OR ... Moses Malone. OR MANY MANY OTHERS .. Should I go on ?!!? OH yeah there is Will Smith I bet he was named that just so he could become famous ... Or What about ... Apple ... LOL ... Coldplay's lead singers daughter I am sure she will get held back in life because of that particular situation .

[edit on 8-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

Ah, Deus...

So much to say, yet so little substance. At least your boorish, abrasive voice is easy to hear in here.

There ya go ... attack the poster. LOL .... VOTING THIS ONE WAY ABOVE TOP SECRET .

Originally posted by truthseeka
Ah, Deus...

So much to say, yet so little substance. At least your boorish, abrasive voice is easy to hear in here.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
There ya go ... attack the poster. LOL .... VOTING THIS ONE WAY ABOVE TOP SECRET .

Originally posted by truthseeka
Ah, Deus...

So much to say, yet so little substance. At least your boorish, abrasive voice is easy to hear in here.

Nah. Just telling the truth.

Deus... you are a loud mouthed ignorant boor and that is being polite. What is pathetic is that you are proud of your ignorance. No wonder you are not getting anywhere in life fast so why don't you grow up and stop blaming others because for it.

The fact that you posted a thread about how you thought that humans might have mated with apes at one point proves if anything your lack of cognitive abilities.

To date you have not posted a single rational or realistic argument on this thread or any others with your name attached so that being said I am done wasting my time with you.

I am not so rude as to put you on ignore, but I am going to ignore you from here on out. You probably don't know the difference do you?

I know I will get warnings for this but so be it, I can only suffer fools for so long.

Are all thoughts not rational ?

Do we not live in a irrational world ?


Was Columbus's thoughts Rational enough for you. I am not here for rationality; I am here to learn; the only thing that I have learned in this thread is that

1. My ability to get what I mean to say on this web site is below poor.

2. If you want to understand where I am coming from and what I am saying you can. (but in doing so you would have to lose some of your OPINIONS, which obviously you are not capable of ?)


So my question is to you why are you here on this site ?

Other than teach everyone you are right and what you believe is what is FACT and not OPINION ???



BTW, Keep attacking me and I might throw some things out there that get me barred from this and every other thread on here. As where I am from you don't say things like you have said here. Although I am such a BOOR and I obviously have no cognitive ability to even be posting here ... ... ...

[edit on 8-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

Originally posted by truthseeka
See, this trend goes along with non-whites being expected to comform to white society in America. God damn, you can't even name your kid a non-white ethnic name if you want them to have a decent chance at success in America. JUST like your house won't make you as much money if you sell it with non-white ethnic decor in it.

My sister named her daughter Nesta after Bob Nesta Marley. I wonder if she will endure what you've been talking about?

They just talk about what they hear thye never see these things .... And if they do it is because they bring it upon themselves .. Can't wait to see the next post that they post ... Saying I am hated by my co-workers or something along those lines ... WELL DO YOUR WORK THEN !!!!!!

Let's keep this rolling, shall we?

Raci al Preference and Suburban Employment Opportunities Report

In an effort to understand the role of race in hiring more clearly, we conducted matched-pair testing of employment opportunities for Blacks in entry-level managerial positions in retail firms in the Chicago suburbs. Our Black and White job-seekers all had the appropriate qualifications and experi-
ence for the positions they sought, and none of them faced any transportation obstacles. Thus, our study made race, and not skills or space, the salient difference between Black and White job-seekers.

...our study demonstrated that employers show preferences for White job-seekers, even when spatial and skills mismatches are eliminated. When we sent resumes of qualified Black and White job applicants...employers contacted nearly one-third of the White applicants for interviews, but only about one-fourth of the Black applicants – giving Whites a 21% higher chance of being contacted for an interview. When we sent matched pairs of Black and White women to apply for jobs in person, Whites received job offers 81% of the time, while Blacks received offers 70% of the time – giving Whites a 16% higher chance of getting a job offer. Moreover, when job offers specified the number of hours an employee would be needed, Whites were offered an average of 36 hours of work a week, while Blacks were offered only 28 hours. At the average wage paid by the employers we tested ($8.86/hour), that translates into a pay difference of almost $4,000 a year.

[edit on 8-3-2007 by truthseeka]


(Mod edit: Fixed URL tag/long URL. -- Majic)

[edit on 3/8/2007 by Majic]

Don't forget this though, truthseeka... From your source:

On the brighter side, we also found that, in more than half of the firms where our Black and White job-seekers applied in person, both the Black and the White applicant were offered jobs, and the offers were similar in terms of the level of the position and the rate of pay.

And there are other factors that contribute to whether a person gets hired or not. Attitude plays an important part. While I agree that the playing field isn't leveled, mean old hiring people aren't always to blame for blacks not getting as many jobs. If you came to an interview with me, I most likely would not like your attitude. I may not like the answers you give to certain questions. You may have a "give-a-crap", angry, victim attitude that I have no use for, and so, no, I'm not going to hire you.

What About Black Skin Privilege?

Today, everywhere from the Justice Department to the Ivy League Universities, the bureaucrats and professors justify discrimination against whites on the basis of the notion of "white skin privilege." According to this concept, legal palliation for America's "past cruelty toward blacks" must come at the expense of all whites, however poor or disadvantaged, based on the fiction that prior to the "Civil Rights" era, all whites had a supreme legal and social position by the very fact of the color of their skin.

It's clear to me that many black of people today are more angry at and hate white people much more than their actual slave ancestors.

The former South Carolina black slave Waters McIntosh recalled, "When I was a boy we used to sing, 'Rather be a 'n-word' than a poor white man."

Black slaves viewed themselves as better than poor whites because their masters did too. According to Eugene Genovese, "Rosa Starke who had been owned by a big planter in South Carolina reported that poor whites had to use the kitchen door when they went up to the Big House. Her mistress 'had a grand manner; no patience with poor white folks."

The negro slave Ella Kelly stated, "You know boss, dese days dere is three kind of people. Lowest down is a layer of white folks, then in de middle is a layer of colored folks, and on top is de cream, a layer of good white folks..."

The hierarchy described by Kelly remains in effect to this day. In the 1930s, when the Dust Bowl forced penniless Oklahoma immigrants west, no "white skin privilege" protected these Okies from being driven from California, beaten and reviled as "maggots."

Black Privilege?

One doesn’t have to be a superhero to take on responsibility. One doesn’t have to swing through skyscrapers to assume the mantle of civic duty. One simply has to be a man or a woman. But political correctness discourages manhood and womanhood amongst blacks and women, for it romanticizes victimhood. It idealizes the victim. It renders otherwise legitimate disciplines such as Black studies and Women’s studies mere Victim studies.
...
But black studies, as a pseudodiscipline, isn’t interested in dialogue. It’s about the monologue of the victim. No dialectics here. It’s the black bourgeois monolith of victimology. Hence, this pseudodiscipline neutralizes the Garveyite passion for self-reliance and equity. It neutralizes black agency. It encourages the DuBoisian passions of resentment and envy. It entrenches black victimhood. DuBois is its God. Rev. Dr. King is its patron saint. “Somebodiness” is its holy grail.

Victimology and identity politics (read “victim politics”) are the theory and practice of the black bourgeoisie, respectively. The house Negro thereof sees only from the perspective of the victim. Thus, he is the extreme of self-righteousness, which is OK, for, as we all know, the victim is always right. But is he really a victim? Um, no. Come to my neighborhood in Anacostia, Southeast D.C. — I’ll show you some victims. Come hop on the number 109 for a 20-minute bus ride into Chester — I’ll show you some victims. Victims aren’t privy to $38,000-a-year college educations. Blacks here are just as privileged as their white counterparts.

I don't deny that white privilege exists. But black privilege ALSO exists. They each have their specialties, but they're both alive and well in America today, just as racism is. Racism against all races.

But if a black person cannot acknowledge black privilege, he's no better than a white person who denies white privilege, truthseeka.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Today, everywhere from the Justice Department to the Ivy League Universities, the bureaucrats and professors justify discrimination against whites on the basis of the notion of "white skin privilege." According to this concept, legal palliation for America's "past cruelty toward blacks" must come at the expense of all whites, however poor or disadvantaged, based on the fiction that prior to the "Civil Rights" era, all whites had a supreme legal and social position by the very fact of the color of their skin.

Oh, PLEASE!

This is clearly a shot at AA. I'm SURE you know that race is only ONE factor used in college admissions, for example. And, I'm SURE you are opposed to LEGACY as well as AA...oh wait, probably NOT.

And, like I've said tons of times in here, AA is NOT equal to non-white privilege, because WHITE WOMEN benefit from AA; in fact, they're the group that's benefitted the MOST from AA. Even IF AA were equal to white privilege, it does NOTHING to account for five centuries of white privilege, as it's only been in practice for LESS THAN FORTY YEARS.

It's clear to me that many black of people today are more angry at and hate white people much more than their actual slave ancestors.

The former South Carolina black slave Waters McIntosh recalled, "When I was a boy we used to sing, 'Rather be a 'n-word' than a poor white man."

Black slaves viewed themselves as better than poor whites because their masters did too. According to Eugene Genovese, "Rosa Starke who had been owned by a big planter in South Carolina reported that poor whites had to use the kitchen door when they went up to the Big House. Her mistress 'had a grand manner; no patience with poor white folks."

The negro slave Ella Kelly stated, "You know boss, dese days dere is three kind of people. Lowest down is a layer of white folks, then in de middle is a layer of colored folks, and on top is de cream, a layer of good white folks..."

BH, I didn't think it was possible, but you have sunk to a new low.:shk: You have the NERVE to suggest that blacks living under slavery were more happy about it than their free descendants?:shk::shk::shk:

Is that why slaves revolted from the MINUTE they were brought to this land?

Is that why so many slaves ran away from bondage that Congress passed the Fugitive Slave Act?

Is that why slaves would go to such extremes as killing their masters, or even their own CHILDREN, to prevent them from living the life they lived, ruled over by hostile white people?

There is no other way to describe your use of 3 slaves' sentiments to characterize ALL black slaves than PATHETIC. I can't BELIEVE you feel that our slave ancestors would have wanted us to live as they did, under the barbaric boot of slavery.

One doesn’t have to be a superhero to take on responsibility. One doesn’t have to swing through skyscrapers to assume the mantle of civic duty. One simply has to be a man or a woman. But political correctness discourages manhood and womanhood amongst blacks and women, for it romanticizes victimhood. It idealizes the victim. It renders otherwise legitimate disciplines such as Black studies and Women’s studies mere Victim studies.
...
But black studies, as a pseudodiscipline, isn’t interested in dialogue. It’s about the monologue of the victim. No dialectics here. It’s the black bourgeois monolith of victimology. Hence, this pseudodiscipline neutralizes the Garveyite passion for self-reliance and equity. It neutralizes black agency. It encourages the DuBoisian passions of resentment and envy. It entrenches black victimhood. DuBois is its God. Rev. Dr. King is its patron saint. “Somebodiness” is its holy grail.

Oh, please. More garbage.

This sounds like something Juan Williams would say. People such as Langston Hughes and Zora Neale Hurston, examples of people you learn about in black studies, STRESSED that black American history is NOT merely one series of oppressions after another.

The Harlem Renaissance was NOT about victimization.

Black Wall Street was NOT about victimization (until whites burned it to the ground, that is).

The first Reconstruction Period was NOT about victimization (until whites entrenched Jim Crow and segregation into American society, that is).

I don't deny that white privilege exists. But black privilege ALSO exists. They each have their specialties, but they're both alive and well in America today, just as racism is. Racism against all races.

But if a black person cannot acknowledge black privilege, he's no better than a white person who denies white privilege, truthseeka.

PU-LEEEZE!!!

You have NO idea how ridiculous you sound saying that there's such a thing as black privilege. I've already pointed out how AA is NOT equal to black privilege. A comparison between housing, employment, the criminal justice system, wealth, and income, to name a few, will show who TRULY is privileged in America.

This latest deflection of yours to avoid talking directly about white privilege is truly pathetic. Funny how you FINALLY decided to comment on my sources with this latest one; I see you have NOTHING to say about the laws establishing WP that I mentioned.

Don't worry; I know it's because you don't have a damn thing to counter WP on the books with. No wonder you resort to lame tactics such as this.



[edit on 8-3-2007 by truthseeka]

[edit on 8-3-2007 by truthseeka]

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
BTW, Keep attacking me and I might throw some things out there that get me barred from this and every other thread on here. As where I am from you don't say things like you have said here. Although I am such a BOOR and I obviously have no cognitive ability to even be posting here ... ... ...

[edit on 8-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

Deus,

Just a word of advice: don't fall into the trap of responding to personal attacks upon you. That will only get you banned. It's the mod's job to stop those type of attacks.

Remember: when people cannot attack your argument, they try to attack your character. So, stick to the issues and stay away from any attempts to bait you into losing your temper. Stay cool.

Damn Good Advice

Originally posted by jsobecky
Just a word of advice: don't fall into the trap of responding to personal attacks upon you. That will only get you banned. It's the mod's job to stop those type of attacks.

Remember: when people cannot attack your argument, they try to attack your character. So, stick to the issues and stay away from any attempts to bait you into losing your temper. Stay cool.

Well said, and quoted For Great Justice.

I'll throw in that we're a bit short-handed at the moment, so please don't assume we'll catch everything, because we can't. However, being a persistent medium, the posts are there if there are problems and we need to review them later.

I know it's very hard to discuss racism without getting personal about it. Almost impossible, it seems, because all of us find ourselves racially categorized whether we like it or not, and all of us are personally affected by it every day of our lives, whether we realize it or not.

The truth is that we are all both victims and perpetrators of racism to some degree or another, every last one of us, because racism comes naturally to humans.

Talking about it and trying to do something about it is the exception, not the rule.

Doing Something About It

Racism is, at its heart, based on behavior. Our behavior can be influenced by others, but ultimately the decision to change it rests with each of us as individuals.

Here we have a chance to talk about racism -- the concept of white privilege in particular -- and while it's rare to see anyone change their mind about something like this based solely on discussion in an Internet forum, it does happen.

But it only happens when our eyes, ears and minds are open, and that can't happen if we're hunched down trying to ward off attacks.

There has been some real heat flying back and forth in this thread, and I don't personally have the time to moderate it myself, but I check in now and then to see what's up.

Just when I'm tempted to close it, someone posts something that gives me hope. Hope that maybe something good can come of this.

I think it can.

Slow And Steady

I know this isn't easy to talk about without getting worked up. This is something people face every day, and if allowed to, it can crush your soul.

When talking about it here, however, please remember that no matter what racial category we might get lumped into, we're all unique human beings and we are all brothers and sisters.

So let's act like it.

Call it like you see it on racism, and when you disagree with what a fellow member has to say, don't be shy about saying so and telling them why.

But please try not to be judgmental and give in to personal attacks, because everyone has their own story to tell, and everyone has their reasons for thinking the way they do.

If we can bear that in mind and respect each other as members regardless of our opinions, we win, and maybe even some apathy can be denied.

It's worth trying. Please do your best.

I promise you won't regret it.





P.S. And if someone lays a personal attack on you, please don't make things worse by coming back with more of the same. Submit a Complaint/Suggestion and let us know. We do care, try our best to be fair and love it when members help us out.




[edit on 3/9/2007 by Majic]

I'm only not even 100% white and I can tell you that white dominated nations are actually the best in this world. We have so many rights here and so many opportunities in them. Most of us are pretty well off regardless of color. I understand that as a civilization it is important to regard everyone equally, but when I look at 3rd world nations dominated by non-whites...it's difficult for me to come to that conclusion. And perhaps it's not color so much as it is culture. In the end I don't think AffAction is neccessary. People need to stop thinking in terms of race.

Here ya go truth


White girl denied access to public school because she was white.....
www.adversity.net...

In 1998 Rochester elementary student Jessica Haak, who is white, was denied a transfer to a "better" suburban school due to her skin color.

Another white girl denied access to public education
www.adversity.net...

13 year old Julia McLaughlin, who is not a minority, was denied admission to Boston Latin because of her race. Over 100 minority students with scores lower than Julia’s were admitted to the school while Julia was denied entry! In August 1995 her father, an attorney, filed suit

How about a white woman denied promotion
www.adversity.net...

In spite of Sandy Atkins credentials and her extensive teaching experience, the Benton Harbor Area School district has denied her a promotion on at least 10 occasions mostly, as her suit alleges, because she is white. She filed suit in U.S. District Court in Lansing, Michigan on January 6, 2000.

So much for your theory that AA protects white women eh Truth?

Ok...

1st, your titles for the school girls are misleading. They were allegedly denied entry to CERTAIN public schools, NOT denied public education, as you falsely claim.

2nd, these are 3 instances where it is ALLEGED that they have been discriminated against. It has not been determined by the courts yet if this is true.

3rd, if true, these are examples of MINORITIES being discriminated against. (You DO know that women are minorities, right? )

4th, these are THREE examples, even if true. In the studies I cited (which you conveniently ignored), the sample sizes used were WAY bigger than 3. Accordingly, the principles of statistics can be applied to establish evidence of a pattern of discrimination.

5th, within this minority (women), white women make a LOT more money, on average, than black and Latino women. This is FACT , btw. As jobs are a main area where AA is used, this provides evidence that white women have benefitted quite a bit from AA.