I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

Whatever, becky.

Nygdan and I are lying about how important slavery was to the American economy. Sure, whatever. But, your comment about keeping FREE labor truly sickens me. (as an aside, it's strange that blacks are stereotyped as lazy when they worked for FREE for so long )

BH, why do you feel so important that black ATS members are blaming YOU for anything? If you're talking about you and Ceci's debate over guilt, I ain't got nothing to do with that. If you're talking about something else, whatever.

And if you don't care about issues pertaining to blacks anymore, bully for you. Again, no one asked you to. If you've lost interest in being a crusader for the down-trodden, too bad; I could care less.

FACT: In my lifetime I have heard more racist remarks come out of white peoples mouths than any other.

This is my own personal experience.

I do not say it is restricted to white people as that would be ignorant, just the majority.

Why would that be?

Originally posted by Koka
FACT: In my lifetime I have heard more racist remarks come out of white peoples mouths than any other.

This is my own personal experience.

I do not say it is restricted to white people as that would be ignorant, just the majority.

Why would that be?

Uh-oh, Koka...

You JUST called Intrepid a racist. Since you said you've heard the most racist comments from whites, and Intrepid is white, you have CLEARLY called him a racist.



P.S. If you are white, you have also just called YOURSELF a racist!

This thread wasn't about Black issues, why does it ALWAYS get back to those, do OUR issues NOT matter?

There are PLENTY of threads here for Black issues, why jack this one?

BTW, waiting on ceci for answers to my questions.

Originally posted by intrepid
This thread wasn't about Black issues, why does it ALWAYS get back to those, do OUR issues NOT matter?

There are PLENTY of threads here for Black issues, why jack this one?

BTW, waiting on ceci for answers to my questions.

What's the deal with threads, anyway?

Why do they call them threads? Why not fibers? Is it because of the 2 syllables?

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by intrepid
This thread wasn't about Black issues, why does it ALWAYS get back to those, do OUR issues NOT matter?

There are PLENTY of threads here for Black issues, why jack this one?

BTW, waiting on ceci for answers to my questions.

What's the deal with threads, anyway?

Why do they call them threads? Why not fibers? Is it because of the 2 syllables?

Thank you for that contribution.

Can we get back on topic and an answer from ceci?

Originally posted by intrepid
This thread wasn't about Black issues, why does it ALWAYS get back to those, do OUR issues NOT matter?

There are PLENTY of threads here for Black issues, why jack this one?

BTW, waiting on ceci for answers to my questions.

You want answers and they are not going to be black and white.

You new this topic was going to stray, it has to, there a too many variables for there to be any simple answers.

I believe a majority of the posts have been on topic and point toward explaining the bigger picture, a picture, it seems, none of us can see very clearly.

[edit on 10-2-2007 by Koka]

Well, Intrepid...

It's obvious that Ceci isn't on the site right now, or she doesn't feel like answering you now if she is on the site.

Ah, what the hell. Keep twiddling your thumbs; I'm off to play tiddlywinks.

Don't waste your time waiting...

There are never going to be any answer that are

1. On Topic
2. Contain Context
3. Are Direct
or
4. Subtract from a Victim mentality

At least it has not so far. Any attempts at the lifting of this conversation to some level of adult intellectual conversation, complete without throwing words around that are apparently mildly beyond the use of the communicator, has failed miserably as expected.

So the usual suspects delve on, full of rhetoric and grandiloquence with little substance or answers.

Still the fascination is there. Exactly the same reasons we stop and watch what happens on hearing the screech of tires. The reason we all slow at the train wreck. We want to watch the mayhem, we desire the havoc in our otherwise simple and uneventful lives.

Oh we are full of opinion, magniloquence and stylish postulations, sadly what is missing is the substance. Much the same way the questions that are routinely asked here are missing answers. Just lots and lots of nebulous inferences that have been covered and discussed without merit.

Still we carry on in the dark misunderstanding that we are so very comfortable with.

Semper

I stepped away from the thread today because I knew exactly what was going to happen. Be rest assured, intrepid and everyone else who asked me a question will get their answers. However, I find it sad that my questions remain unaddressed all the while (with two mods watching) there are some posters attacking my character once again.

But hell. I've endured quite a lot here. I've had three threads unceremoniously closed before I could defend myself. I had to withstand 75 pages of attacks on my character. I even was derided via my family life, education, personality and my posting style. I've quietly endured comments about my people, especially from others who openly said they hated them.

But I haven't asked anyone to pity me. And I have never complained. I have always asked how I could make things better in order to solve things peacefully.

It is very notable that I still have compassion and caring for others. Just because of the acts of a few today, does not make me hate white people. I love all people and I will always do so. I am not racist despite the personal attacks and insults.

But you can't expect me to retreat into the smiling, "Aw shucks" stereotype of a happy Black laughing it off as people say the most heinous remarks.

Feel sorry for BH if you must. Even I am saddened for her. And I forgive her, despite my best judgement. She wanted talk and experiences instead of sources, constructive discussion and solutions. I even told her that I didn't want to talk anymore and instead, I wanted to post sources. But that was even complained about.

So, here I am to suffer indignity because another poster could not or would not willingly engage my observances except to use it as a way to get others to feel sorry for her as a cover for her inadequacies. I used to try to capitulate to her whims. Well, no more. She has to realize that discussions about race are not tea parties. There are real issues involved. And she has to handle addressing strong and articulate Black people who have ideas, intellect, thoughts and emotions.

It shows the strength of character from myself, HH, truthseeka and ilandrah that we didn't break after all the remarks shared in this thread. We didn't swoon. We didn't cry. We didn't try to solicit anyone's approval. We didn't beg for anyone's pity. We just talked and shared our thoughts. And to our credit, we didn't blame or tell anyone that they had guilt. We never said that anyone was racist.

And we did this all the while other posters spoke for us, verbally harassed us and dehumanized our people. Consider that.

Oh yes, I will address intrepid's remarks. Repeatedly, if I have to. But in the end, I wonder what it will truly solve because people only want to talk "at" the issue of the racism instead of engage it head on with solutions.



[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by jsobecky
Stop right there. You are combining slavery and racism as if they were one and the same. They are not.

How do you figure? American slavery wasnt' like, say, roman slavery, where prisoner of war was made into a slave. American Slavery was a racist insitution, it only applied to one race, and it was justified on the basis that blacks were animals, subhumans.

You can have racism without slavery. Or slavery without racism. They can and do occur simultaneously, but one does not depend on the other.

The fact that the federal gov't. stepped in is proof that it was not condoned by most of America.

How do you figure? The federal government doesn't allways do what the majority wants.

Of course they don't. Would that they did. The important thing is, they did in this case.

This country was not built upon the backs of black slaves, at least not exclusively or significantly

Exclusively, no. Significantly? Of course. The southern economy was dependant on slave labour. Its the whole reason why they were willing to go to war over it, they wanted a balance of slave and free states in congress in order to protect slavery, because the slave economy was vital for them.

I will agree that slavery was key to the southern economy. But not to the American economy in total.

Slavery was the reason the Civil War was fought. The reasons were economic, moral, and political, esp. states rights and secession. It was not simply one or the other.

Once again, please do not exaggerate the circumstances.

No blacks, no america. Thats not an exaggeration. It'd be a radically different country without the southern slave economy.

I agree with you on this point. It would have been much different. But maybe it would have been much better.

Worst case is that cotton prices would have been higher.

Or, Mr. Sobecky, the southern agricultural economy wouldn't've existed.

Possible, but I doubt that it would not have existed without slavery. Look at the agricultural industry of the breadbasket, the dairy states, or what built the Chicago stockyards. They did not rely on slave labor, and their value to the American economy was many times as lucrative.

Slavery was legal in the north for a long time too, and there were black slaves there also. But it didn't become the industry that it was in the south, because the local economies were different and didn't make slavery profitable. If you couldnt' use slave labour for intensive farming, then you'd have to pay higher wages. That, on its own, would've changed the south completely, by affecting the distribution of wealth, encouraging smaller plantations and thus more capital investiment, and not having society organized along the plantation system.

Except that that is not what happened. Industrialization changed the face of the economy, not additional labor. And increased capital investment tends to favor the larger player at the expense of the smaller one, if only for the fact that the small guy can't afford to stay competitive.

And thats IF it was even economically viable to have staple crops like cotton. It might very well have turned out that it wasn't a viable alternative, and the south might've become more industrialized, like the north. Or more focused on commerce. It might've, as a region, pushed for more control over the nearby spanish and british territories. We might have spanish speaking neighbhors in idaho, and an american state in Cuba, Jamaica, etc. If the south could go to war (at least partly) over slavery, why wouldnt' it also go to war over trading rights in the west indies or central america or the mississippi valley?

There is no question that the face of the nation would have changed. Mexico and Central America may very well have been English-speaking today. We can only speculate. But to say that the south would have withered and died is unlikely.

Slavery as an economic factor was doomed to a very short life before it even started.

It wasnt' doomed or certain to go away. It lasted until a violent war abolished it nearly a hundred years after the federal government formed, let alone since it had been an important economic factor. If there was no civil war, we might still have it today. Heck, we only had a civil rights movement occur in the 60s, so its not too far a stretch of the imagination.
The fact is that slavery didnt' die off on its own, it had to be killed, and even after that, people in the south tried to reinforce the old social system of keeping blacks as secondary citizens. And the effects of that are pretty clearly still with us today, with blacks in the rural poor south or concentrated into decayed and ignored urban centers.

Well, we could argue that one all night long, as well as whether the existence of slavery for less than 200 years was long enough to make it an "institution". I am sure that it would have died a natural death by the beginning of the 20th century, but there is no way to prove it.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Whatever, becky.

Nygdan and I are lying about how important slavery was to the American economy. Sure, whatever. But, your comment about keeping FREE labor truly sickens me.

(as an aside, it's strange that blacks are stereotyped as lazy when they worked for FREE for so long

)

Nygdan is trying to make a logical argument. You, on the other hand, want to believe that black affected the economy more than they did because it makes you feel important.

And my comment about blacks working for FREE sickens you? Good. Maybe it will make you expel some of the bile and hatred you have been spouting. It will be healthier for you to rid yourself of those poisons.

The fact is, black slaves had no choice but to work for free (discounting room and board, etc.). That's why we call them slaves.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Nygdan is trying to make a logical argument. You, on the other hand, want to believe that black affected the economy more than they did because it makes you feel important.

Right.

I was watching the History Channel the other day, and the program noted that slavery was more economically valuable to the ENTIRE country than a number of other industries COMBINED. I can't recall which ones exactly, but I know oil was one of them.

So spare me your BS about how the South didn't need slavery. But, keep comments like how the US might have been better without black people coming. THAT'S showing the real becky; no need to hide it anymore...

Originally posted by truthseeka

Originally posted by jsobecky

Nygdan is trying to make a logical argument. You, on the other hand, want to believe that black affected the economy more than they did because it makes you feel important.

Right.

I was watching the History Channel the other day, and the program noted that slavery was more economically valuable to the ENTIRE country than a number of other industries COMBINED. I can't recall which ones exactly, but I know oil was one of them.

At the time, maybe. But certainly not for very long. Just until they were rendered obsolete by the advent of machinery.

So spare me your BS about how the South didn't need slavery. But, keep comments like how the US might have been better without black people coming. THAT'S showing the real becky; no need to hide it anymore...

It's not BS, truthseeka. It's fact. But you don't like it because it takes away some of those blanks you've been shooting. You spout out sound-bites that you've heard and swallowed without seeking out whether they are true. And you call yourself "truthseeka"?

And I don't hide who I am. That's what pisses you off. You know that I can see right through your "angry young black man" act, and expose you for what you really are. A hater.

Edit typo.

[edit on 11-2-2007 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by intrepid

These questions STILL remain unanswered. Why?

I'm sorry that you still felt I haven't addressed your issues. I will try to do so once again.

I don't see this as "ticky tack". It's important imo.

It is "ticky tack" because you spent more time accusing me of things instead of getting to the heart of the issue.

Why are you sidestepping?

Why are you? I'm about to answer on your questions for the fourth time. I've displayed a considerable amount of patience on my part to do so. But, in essence, I will do so for the thread.

Yes, you've said your peace but you've said and answered NOTHING.

In your opinion. But I will try again because these issues are very important.

Remember? "Conscience", "paternalism" and "responsibility"?

Yes, that was my themes for the day.

And NO, it's up to YOU to stand up for your words.

I have.

I've been BBQ'd for mine here and I stand behind them

You should be so proud.

will YOU?

Truthfully, I am underwhelmed by your challenge. But yes, I do stand by my words and I will try for the latest time to answer your question:

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by ceci2006
I said that in response to your apathy of having a conscience and not understanding what happens as a result of institutional racism. It had nothing about telling anyone, let alone yourself, about feeling guilt.

Could you break this down in a few sentences as THIS may be the core of what I'm talking about.

I have never blamed or told anyone that they have guilt as a result of discussing my experiences. However, when acts of racism (i.e. institutional racism) are discussed (especially by people of color), these issues get glossed over. In fact, some willfully ignore it or make fun of it. In that way, the persons who do so are not displaying empathy or a conscience. They are not even displaying compassion.

The bottom line is that these events were never meant to place guilt on anyone. These events were only used to get people to understand that racism occurs so they can remember, discuss and work with solving them. Furthermore, it is hoped that by remembrance these events would not happen again.


[edit on 11-2-2007 by ceci2006]

Hi shots.

African Americans are known for that and also label all cops/police as racist the minute they see them. I can only assume that is the way they are raised but I am not sure.

I am pretty sure it's learnt behaviour, from being stopped on the street for no reason, more than other groups, and harassed by cops, it's learnt. I doubt very few families teach their kids this, it's something they learn. Let me know if you want to see links to what I am referring to.


Hi djohnsto77.

Even if you were watching this guy because he was black, I still think it's entirely appropriate.

That's the attitude right there, that get's to people and that has nothing to do with ancestors this or that. It's the day in day out, being treated differently because of the color of your skin.

It's like the white male who came on Oprah who decided to be black for a week, I think after 48 hrs, he had to go back to being white, cause he could not take the harassment. Just think about what that says.


Hi Benevolent Heretic.

You see, it's because I don't feel guilty and take responsibility for what other people of my skin color did many years ago. It's because I don't support special treatment of blacks. It's because I don't find racism against blacks in every commercial I see on TV... Because I don't always agree with Malcolm X and Spike Lee that I am called a racist.

I am going to challenge that assumption and say that I doubt that very much, unless you can provide specific examples. Some black people do play the race card, and hold others responsible for past crimes. Others hold people responsible for their current attitudes.

If you really believe the above is why you are getting called a racist in most cases, then I suggest that you really challenge it when these cases arise, but if you are getting called a racist and frequently, then maybe look for other reasons.

I was treating him like eany other guy in the world. I thought that's what I was supposed to do... But I've learned since then that many black people I've met want to be treated specially. And I don't do that

I guess maybe the ones you have met, or maybe it's your perception. Also just because you are at a party with your black man, does not mean you can't be a racist. It's like when people say, but I have black friends, and so?

The same goes for black people, they can have white friends and still be racist.



Hi shizzle5150.

And for those of you who think having a gun pointed at you head is not a reasonable reason to cast judgment in the ways stated. Try it sometime, it will give you a different outlook to say the least. Maybe it was my fault for not knowing better than to walk to the store after dark. True story and my two cents

Ok I don't care what color you are, someone does that to you and tramatised you and yes, the next time you are going to have a knee jerk reaction, and no one can blame you for it. Unfortunately the next time someone in a car who is black who really needs help is not helped by you and they say it's cause they are black, they will be right, but not for the reasons they think.

The only thing I would like to add to this however is that, day in day out if people do things to you on a smaller scale, all those little events add up to the same knee jerk reaction and that is where some black people get their knee jerk reactions from.


Hi Rockpuck.

Its the "black experience" where you grow up in the "ghetto" and your "gangsta" and all the white folk keepin ya down, every one hates you for your color.. Because your great great great grand daddies daddy was a slave, it some how embedded it's self into your genes that you can never overcome being raised in poverty. Please. The racism that comes from the black community disgust me sometimes.

This seems to generalise.

You will never surpass your past, untill you can get over your self in the present to make a better future for tomorow.

Good opinion, but just don't stereotype everyone which is kinda what you did, or how it came across.


Hi geek101.

I said thats rubbish, no-one else seems to get as much "help" as me.
With that, i just told her i wouldnt be shopping here anymore, and left the basket on the counter.

See you feel it after a while and you notice it, but imagine if you got the same attention in almost 70% of stores that you went to, and you could not stop shopping there?


Hi FlyersFan.

Those people have become what they claim to hate .. they are now idiot racists themselves (as well as freak'n morons).

Are we generalising a little too much here about those people?


Hi JohnDoe43.

You can't honestly expect anyone to just sit tight while they are discriminated against for no fualt of their own.

So very true.


Response to threads 1-4.

These would be considered "Uncle Toms". The

black community also hates them. Black people don't

like it when other black people "make it". It shows

that there really isn't as much racism (intitutional)

as many would have you believe. I'm not saying it

doesn't happen.

Extremely generalised statement and I think it's wrong.

I think some people do envy others when they make it,

but you get that with every group. I think you get that

with black culture, because in those cases people might

give the appearance of trying to appear to be something

they are not, wither it's true or not.

You would get the same reaction if you had the reverse

happen.



Hi ubermunche.

Good post overall.


Hi Deus_Brandon

It makes sense to me that if you check all the

black people ... then you will catch all the black

people ... If you check on the Muslims .. than guess

what the percentage is ... More muslims .. doing things

they shouldn't ... this is just what I see as true ...

Good point, it's a mathematical thing. Also then you

have other factors involved, like false arrests, and

charges, but that's another issue.


Hi Griff.

Also, why are people like Condeleeza Rice and

Colon Powle considered "Uncle Toms"?

I don't know about America, but in Canada we have a

governor general and I don't think Michaëlle Jean is

viewed that way at all. It's just how you carry

yourself.


I think people look up to her and admire her. I could

be wrong, but that is the perception I get, and I have

heard nothing about her being a sell out.


Hi nextguyinline.

I guess I need an example of a succesfull black

person, who in the black community is considered

culturally embeded.

Michelle Jean, but she is Canadian.



Arcane Demesne.

If your father robbed banks for a living, should

we keep you and your continued off-spring in jail

because of it?! No? Its not fair?

Well it's not fair to judge people by what their

ancestors did either.

See this is a good point. I believe in judging people

for their own current actions.


Hi Koka.

Depends, are the kids still living off the proceeds of that bank job?

Oh also a good point. I have never thought of things that way before, but I still think you should judge people for their own individual actions.



Hi Rockpunk.

There are more poor whites in America then poor blacks... does this mean that there is institutional racism for poor whites to?

Do you have states on that?

Perhaps if blacks stopped blaming every one but them selves, there would be far fewer problems.

Over generalising. I think you have to quit lumping everyone together, everyone is different to a degree.


Hi intrepid.

Are you saying that those that didn't commit a crime should be incarcerated, ie:held guilty?

I think what they were saying is that even though they did not commit the crime directly, they are knowingly living off of ill gotten gains, and that does carry with it some responsibility. Eg. In the bank case, the right thing to do would be to give back the money.

In the case of racism, I have no idea how this would work, but i again think people should be held responsible for their own actions.

The bank scenario presents an interesting quagmire.


Hi chissler.

Are you implying that the children have committed a crime, and should be held accountable?

See I have never thought of this perspective before. The children have committed no crime, but how do you justify living off of stolen money? That's what the poster is trying to say, and though not culpable as in committing the crime, it's living off of the ill gotten gains of others. Eg. (I think the poster is saying that people benefited from slavery and institutional racism, and thus their children are doing better because of the structure or structures that were in place, and thus the next generation have benefited from this, like the bank robbery scenario.) I don't know how that works, because I have never thought of it as such before.

Again though I think people should only be judged for their own actions, but this helps me understand the perspective of where the past comes into play.

Reply to posts 4-8

Hi Benevolent Heretic.

Am I still living off the "proceeds" of

slavery?

I doubt you are directly. What I think the poster is

saying is that in the bank senario the children are

allowed to use the ill gotten money to buy a house,

live comfortably, while the people that were robbed,

maybe lost their homes, and their ability to take care

of themselves, which has repercussions down the line.

Even if all the money from the bank robbery runs out at

some point, it still allowed the bank robbers family to

live well for maybe generations, and have advantages

that others did not, ie. The people that were robbed.

I don't think I ever fully understood this before. So

that has to be where this benifited down the line thing

is coming from and the you might try to feel guilty

that your great grand daddy was a bank robber. From the

perspective, I can understand the reasoning, but I

still don't necessarily think it's right, but I think I

get it now.

As far as I know, I have never benefited from

institutional racism. That is, I have never knowingly

been hired over an equally qualified person of color,

been seated in a restaurant before someone of color who

arrived before me, been paid more than a person of

color with equal job duties, been given a loan when a

person of color with the same credit was denied, gotten

better grades in school because of my race or benefited

in any way over a person of color because of my race.

Maybe the opperative word is having never knowingly.

That does not mean it has not happened, it just means

that you might not have been cognizant of it. Also does

not mean that it did happen, but that's the difference

in the wording.


Hi truthseeka.

I didn't call this guy a racist, yet he wants to

use my words from another context to say why he's tired

of being called racist because he's white.

The first post, did give the impression that the hurt

was something recent and that it was something carried

over from another post and not from the incident 12

years ago. So yes I do think I now see your point.

I think we can safely agree that you did not call him a

racist specifically which unfortunatly is the

impression that the opening thread seemed to state.

Although you were left annoymous, I also assumed the

quote was from someone who might have called him a

racist.


Hi Arcane Demesne

All groups ethnicities, races, sexes, and religious preferences have been countlessly murdered and abused since the beginning of time. Those who belong to one of those 'groups' (you can't choose where you're born) that did the perpetrating CAN (they don't have to, and shouldn't be required to) feel empathy, but they should not feel guilt (unless they themselves are still doing the wrong).

Again a good point was made overall.



Hi Griff.

When I was done, a young black man was next. I had way more qualifications and experience than him. Who got the job? You guessed it, the black kid.

How do you know he got the job? I mean we know you didn't, but if it's a goverenment job, I would think there would be more than 2 candidates, and did you talk to him? How did you know what his qualifications were?

Just wondering.



Hi Nygdan.

Wow that was enlightening and well worth the read.


Hi ceci2006.

Good. You've taken responsibility.

Racism has to be the responsibility of each of us, for our own individual actions. That's the best we can hope for, I guess.


Hi whatukno

Does anyone ever care that this eggshell walking might be offensive to me? No nobody cares because dang nabit im a white dude. So if I stand up for my rights as a human and not care what others think then I have to get labled a racist.

Who asked you to walk on eggshells? You should just tell them no. Again who told you, that you could not stand up for your rights? Again just say no.

I don't know the types of people you are meeting, but they sound like bad influences.


Hi jsobecky.

What exactly do blacks want from whites?

Why do you think they want anything?

But I think that some here want white people to live their lives wearing sackcloth and ashes, and to constantly and repeatedly acknowledge that slavery existed. They want it to be the focus of everybody's lives.

People on ATS? In America? On planet earth? Again what sort of people are you hanging out with? Just say no. Sackcloth and ashes is a really bad look for people of all cultures. Just so you know.


Hi Benevolent Heretic.

But there's no justification for this phenomenon, so the topic has been avoided, changed, made light of, denied, commandeered, invalidated, laughed at and glossed over... by the black participants, instead of directly addressed.

I think several members of all races have tried to take this thread in many different directions, yet you specifically focus in on "the black participants", and then if you get called on this, you immediatly go into the fact that you see all people as equal, yadda, yadda, yadda. Interesting.

It would ruin the whole paradigm of "black victim of racism" to have white people being the victim of black people, wouldn't it? So, yeah, as I see it, it's safer for black participants here to change the subject time and time again instead of address it.

Again interesting where your focus goes.

You see, I love to study human behavior.

Maybe examining your own human behavior, before examining others would not be a bad idea.

Just a thought.


Hi intrepid.

This thread wasn't about Black issues, why does it ALWAYS get back to those, do OUR issues NOT matter? There are PLENTY of threads here for Black issues, why jack this one?

The thread was not about black issues, but it was about you, and I think it's fair to say others feeling tired of having to feel guilty about things you never did, because you felt that some black people were trying to make you feel guilty, thus it sort of opened the door to some of the responses you have seen here.

Just a thought.


Threads 8-12

Hi Harassment101
Very interesting and thougtful posts. Thanks for your input.

Originally posted by Harassment101
So that has to be where this benifited down the line thing
is coming from and the you might try to feel guilty
that your great grand daddy was a bank robber.

There is no indication that my great grandfather robbed a bank. There is no indication that he knew anything about a bank robbery. In fact, I have searched my heritage and have found NO bank robberies there.

I agree with you that it is each of our responsibility to deal with racism today. We either fight it or feed it or ignore it. It's our responsibility to respond when we encounter it.

But neither my family nor I are responsible or guilty for slavery. And I won't be held responsible or guilty for it simply because of the color of my skin.

Originally posted by Harassment101
If you really believe the above is why you are getting called a racist in most cases, then I suggest that you really challenge it when these cases arise,

I do challenge it. Here in the race threads on ATS is where I have been "called racist" and I have challenged it with vigor.

but if you are getting called a racist and frequently, then maybe look for other reasons.

I am not by any means "called racist" frequently in real life. It hasn't happened for many years. I have a few real life experiences throughout my life where I was "called racist", but only here on ATS by a couple people have I been labelled. And they are wrong.

And I say "called racist" because many times it's implied instead of spoken outright.

Originally posted by Harassment101
I think several members of all races have tried to take this thread in many different directions, yet you specifically focus in on "the black participants"

From my perspective (and admittedly, I didn't read all 10 pages over again before I wrote that - and I don't even know who all is black or white), the people who have steered away from this thread topic - white people being falsely accused of being racist - who have laughed, made light, and appeared to steer the discussion toward black issues - are black. I didn't say that all black people tried to do that. I know for a fact that they didn't.

Again interesting where your focus goes.

When I'm talking about oranges, I don't focus on fruit. I focus on oranges. What's wrong with focusing on the observed behavior of a few people who are of the same race who are exhibiting the same behavior?

If they were known Republicans or conservatives I would have pointed that out... And I have in other threads.

Edited to add first section as it was obliterated by aliens before I posted....

[edit on 11-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Harassment101
Hi jsobecky.


quote: What exactly do blacks want from whites?


Why do you think they want anything?

This is the problem when you skim over and cherry-pick snags of a thread, Harassment101. You don't get the whole picture.

quote: But I think that some here want white people to live their lives wearing sackcloth and ashes, and to constantly and repeatedly acknowledge that slavery existed. They want it to be the focus of everybody's lives.


People on ATS? In America? On planet earth? Again what sort of people are you hanging out with? Just say no. Sackcloth and ashes is a really bad look for people of all cultures. Just so you know.

I specifically said some here, didn't I? Once again, a result of skimming over instead of reading with comprehension.