Why Don't you Beleive in God?

"And if some say that god does in fact dwell inside us, I sure hope he likes enchiladas and beer, because that's what he's getting!"

Why would you assume that God does not like such things? Anyway, your sould does not need such nourishment. However, your mind and body does. The soul at times shakes its head at what the mind and body do to each.

Namaste

You've gotta be a southern baptist. I can't say I've seen anyone as religious as you who wasn't. That would be my guess, anyway, since you're in TN.

Keep going back into the past and tell me where that basketball that created the big bang came from. Something had to put it there.

Why?

Just because something cannot be explained with current scientific knowledge does not mean that by default the answer is god. I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that there are things that we simply do not understand yet - the operative word being 'yet'. The Egyptians didn't understand the concept of the sun around which our planet revolves. To them the god Ra was born each morning and began his journey across the sky in his Boat of a Million Years.

If asked what triggered the Big Bang or where the stuff of the universe came from, I do not have an answer. I agree that to say 'it just is' is not a satisfactory answer, but though that may be the best answer science can offer at the moment does not mean it will never be able to offer a better one. It is not a satisfactory answer but then neither is 'some supreme being had to put it there.'

The suff of the universe can be seen, it can be touched, it can be quantified. I can pick up a rock and hold it in my hand. Because I cannot fully explain the rock's ultimate origin proves that it was created by god? Well, then who created god and where did he come from? ..... He just is?

Saying 'it just is' is not good enough for something I can hold in my hand, yet is a sufficient explaination for an omniscient, omnipotent being I can't see, hear or touch? I'm sorry, but to me this just doesn't make sense. I disagree that everyone must believe in a supreme being just because we don't have all of the answers yet. Believe in that being if it gives you comfort, you are certainly entitled to, but it is not the only way.

I beleive that the God spoke of in the Bible put it there but everyone here should agree that some supreme being started it all.

Why must everyone believe as you do?

This god of the bible created the earth and all of the poeple on it, then selected a small group of favorites to be his 'chosen people'? Why play favorites? Why, for instance, let his message of love and forgiveness be carried to the natives of South America by the Conquistodors and the Inquisition?

Why did this god let every man and woman from creation until the death of Jesus die with the taint of Adam and Eve's original sin on their souls?

Why is this god content to let televangelists bilk people of their savings in his name?

Why does this god let his priests molest children?

Because he just is?

[Edited on 26-12-2003 by Donner]

I believe in GOD because I have experienced GOD.

whats ure secret then? ure obviouslly special to have experienced something none of us have. common, tell us.

I believe in GOD because I have experienced GOD.

No, you have experienced what you think is God. How do you know it is God you experienced? How do you know it isn't Satan? How do you distinguish between God and Satan, or God and Odin, for that matter? Or God and Mary Poppins? How do you what you are calling God isn't really Zeus, and you just can't tell the difference?

For that matter, you believe in the Bible yes? You stated so, so I will assume you meant it. Look at it this way:
Between Jehovah and Satan, who has the general reputation for being evil? Satan, correct? Who do you think would need a Bible written to gain converts, if Jehovah is more powerful? It should be obvious that the Bible is a work of Satan - throughout the Bible, Satan does very little. He tempts a follower now and then - whereas Jehovah smites, destroys, orders the death of, and sometimes himself kills unbelievers, blasphemers, witches, infants and pregnant women (the latter is found in Hosea 13:16).

If Jehovah and Satan even exist (of which I am doubtful), I've concluded that the Bible is really a book of Satan, used to confuse followers into thinking that they are really worshipping Jehovah, when they really ain't.

In no particular order:

1. tornados
2. tidal waves
3. earthquakes
4. AIDS
5. Deserts
6. Guinnea worms
7. John Wayne Gacy
8. fungus
9. kidney stones
10. flatulence
--Kris

are you sure you're just not a little too arrogant as a christian or whatever you are to not believe in a word I say is fact? just what 'errors' do I have? I consider myself a scholarly person who's wellfounded in a bunch of subjects and I have researched them quite a bit, so I wouldn't go on saying that my ideas aren't backed up. It is proven through an array of books and historical societies and documents and whatever else that jesus is just an allegorical and astrological sun god myth. There's about 23 other sun gods or even more that are so similar to him and predate him by 100s to thousands of years.

I don't believe in God b/c I've found the truth and I didn't need "blind faith" to find the truth b/c I would've never escaped prison religion if I had 'blind faith'. Blind faith is just that: BLIND. the idea of blind faith is ridiculous and even some supposed 'christian' church fathers such as one who I think was Origen or someone close to him said that blind faith is foolishness. read The Christ Conspiracy, The Authorship of the New Testament, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions, Christianity Before Christ, etc. You'll find all the truth behind Christ.

St. Athanasius said it was blasphemous to take the bible literally. The Hebrew biblical texts and knowledge is well-rounded in gods and goddesses and tales taken from pre-dating civilizations and texts that prove that the bible is not original or historical at most. Some figures might be argued to be related to ancient Egypt and misinterpreted as part of Israel but that's it. Israel itself comes from Issa (moon), Ra (sun), and El (stars). All of the major characters in the bible are mostly gods taken from other peoples. the hebrews used the suffix/prefix El to denote gods. hence the names Beth-El, Gabri-El, Micha-El, El-ohim, El Shaddai, and much more.

religion was a curse on the world since it first became widespread and religions like christianity and islam came. they only brought torment and destruction and plagued the earth with thousands of years of bloodshed and misery. anyone remember how bad the Spanish and other European Inquisitions were? Pope Leo X himself said "what profit has this myth of christ not brought us?" There's plenty of info to show what's really behind the bible and what the church doesn't want you to know. You just hafta search harder than mainstream news/media/books sources.

Blind faith and believing god exists b/c he's "in your heart" and you "feel Him" is absurd and unfounded by ignorance. this board is all about denying ignorance. why believe God if you have no proof? I used to be christian b/c of blind faith but then I realized no proof for Jehovah or Allah or Christ or even Mohammed exists so why believe it? some of this new age stuff probably has more truth to it than the bible ever did. Sai Baba I hardly would believe is christ on earth just b/c he's an Indian guy who can perform miracles and make things manifest. anyone can do that if they figured out how and try hard enough.

The Cabal is just hiding the info tells you how to do that Sai Baba has stuff which may show he is part of the Cabal. If i had the chance to not convert to christianity a year ago I would've done it all over and stayed atheist. Religion only brought me pain. As I searched for proof of God it just crumbled and the more I searched the less proof I found. there's no historical jesus.

Originally posted by GeniusSage

I believe in GOD because I have experienced GOD.

whats ure secret then? ure obviouslly special to have experienced something none of us have. common, tell us.

There is no secret.
I stated it right in my last post.... You have to make the choice to open yourself to GOD. Remove judgment. Remove right/wrong and allow yourself to be forgiven for your wrongs and blessed for your rights. Meditate: sit quietly under a tree in the forest or a park, close your eyes and still your mind. Listen for the voice. GOD is speaking to us all the time. It's just that most of the time we are too busy talking to hear Him.

Don't expect everything to change instantly like changing channels on a television. Transformation and change is a slow process with periodic growth spirts (epiphanies). That is why we live many lives and experience many sides of life.

Also, remove the fear through love. Loving others is accepting them as they are, but also being truthful with them. I tell you the truth this day that you create your own destiny. You WILL reap what you sow. It's not a hard lesson to understand. But you have to listen. Then you have to make the choice to follow one of two paths... the path of the self, or the path of the whole. Many of you have chosen the path of the self, in fact most of humanity has. I have chosen the path of Unity. The path to oneness and completeness. I have experienced dispair, loneliness, hate, anger, confusion. It's not fun and I'm am moving away from that. I'm telling you this so that you can think about it. Unity may not be your path and I'm fine with that, just so long as you are.

Peace and a Happy New Year to you ALL!

+Jammer

Originally posted by AlexJones
are you sure you're just not a little too arrogant as a christian or whatever you are to not believe in a word I say is fact? just what 'errors' do I have? I consider myself a scholarly person who's wellfounded in a bunch of subjects and I have researched them quite a bit, so I wouldn't go on saying that my ideas aren't backed up. It is proven through an array of books and historical societies and documents and whatever else that jesus is just an allegorical and astrological sun god myth. There's about 23 other sun gods or even more that are so similar to him and predate him by 100s to thousands of years.

I don't believe in God b/c I've found the truth and I didn't need "blind faith" to find the truth b/c I would've never escaped prison religion if I had 'blind faith'. Blind faith is just that: BLIND. the idea of blind faith is ridiculous and even some supposed 'christian' church fathers such as one who I think was Origen or someone close to him said that blind faith is foolishness. read The Christ Conspiracy, The Authorship of the New Testament, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions, Christianity Before Christ, etc. You'll find all the truth behind Christ.

St. Athanasius said it was blasphemous to take the bible literally. The Hebrew biblical texts and knowledge is well-rounded in gods and goddesses and tales taken from pre-dating civilizations and texts that prove that the bible is not original or historical at most. Some figures might be argued to be related to ancient Egypt and misinterpreted as part of Israel but that's it. Israel itself comes from Issa (moon), Ra (sun), and El (stars). All of the major characters in the bible are mostly gods taken from other peoples. the hebrews used the suffix/prefix El to denote gods. hence the names Beth-El, Gabri-El, Micha-El, El-ohim, El Shaddai, and much more.

religion was a curse on the world since it first became widespread and religions like christianity and islam came. they only brought torment and destruction and plagued the earth with thousands of years of bloodshed and misery. anyone remember how bad the Spanish and other European Inquisitions were? Pope Leo X himself said "what profit has this myth of christ not brought us?" There's plenty of info to show what's really behind the bible and what the church doesn't want you to know. You just hafta search harder than mainstream news/media/books sources.

Blind faith and believing god exists b/c he's "in your heart" and you "feel Him" is absurd and unfounded by ignorance. this board is all about denying ignorance. why believe God if you have no proof? I used to be christian b/c of blind faith but then I realized no proof for Jehovah or Allah or Christ or even Mohammed exists so why believe it? some of this new age stuff probably has more truth to it than the bible ever did. Sai Baba I hardly would believe is christ on earth just b/c he's an Indian guy who can perform miracles and make things manifest. anyone can do that if they figured out how and try hard enough.

The Cabal is just hiding the info tells you how to do that Sai Baba has stuff which may show he is part of the Cabal. If i had the chance to not convert to christianity a year ago I would've done it all over and stayed atheist. Religion only brought me pain. As I searched for proof of God it just crumbled and the more I searched the less proof I found. there's no historical jesus.

Alex,

Have you ever felt Love?
Have you ever been in Love? How did you know? How could you prove it?
Have you ever felt Pain? How do you know you're not just imagining it?
How do you know you're not in a dream?
How do you know that you're real?

This type of argument really goes nowhere.

Faith is fundamental to existence. It's a question of where we put our faith, in the Heavens or in the material world. Science is faith based as well. You cannot prove anything. That is why we use statistics and probabilities in science. To say that Darwinian evolution of man is the truth is a belief for there is no proof. To say that the world was created in seven days is belief as well, but is founded in (flawed in my opinion) fundamentalism and taking allegorical and parables as straight word for word fact.
Neither works for me so I develop my own beliefs. Is that wrong? Mayber for you, maybe not. The point is, sometimes we must step away from all that has been presented to us as fact and start fresh. Start in you heart and don't make your mind up so soon. There is still time. But seek. seek. seek. I truly hope that you find comfort in whatever you choose to believe.

Peace,

+Jammer

I believe in GOD because I have experienced GOD.

So? I experienced something that most would refer to as God. However the reasoning in my head, my viewpoints, did not turn it into god. You may have experienced 'something', but that does not mean that it is what your mind wants it to be.

Originally posted by Jonna

I believe in GOD because I have experienced GOD.

So? I experienced something that most would refer to as God. However the reasoning in my head, my viewpoints, did not turn it into god. You may have experienced 'something', but that does not mean that it is what your mind wants it to be.

Likewise Jonna, it does not mean that it is not either. It is a matter of Faith. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence. Is that not why we are all here on this message board conversing with each other? Should we all just try to placate each other and try not to disagree on anything? That just amounts to mental masterbation (as my friend puts it).
I respect your belief that you did NOT experience GOD (if that is in fact what you said).
I know that the experiences I have were of GOD and a result of my relationship with Him. Peace to you.

+Jammer

Just because something cannot be explained with current scientific knowledge does not mean that by default the answer is god. I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that there are things that we simply do not understand yet - the operative word being 'yet'. The Egyptians didn't understand the concept of the sun around which our planet revolves. To them the god Ra was born each morning and began his journey across the sky in his Boat of a Million Years.

Donner, that was a great post. Every word of it.

I'm not one for debating, so to simply answer the question that was asked, "Why Don't you Beleive in God?" - I have no desire, wish, want, or need to do so. I didn't not grow up in a very religious or church-going household, but I was always accepted the fact that the Christian god existed because everyone else around me did as well. One day I had what you might call a "reverse epiphany". Instead of finding a god, I found that she/he/it was, for me, a myth, like Zeus, or Thor. I feel that my well being has improved tenfold as a result of that discovery.

Then again, maybe what my mother says is true, and I'm just being contrary out of spite.

Originally posted by jammerman
There is no secret.
I stated it right in my last post.... You have to make the choice to open yourself to GOD. Remove judgment. Remove right/wrong and allow yourself to be forgiven for your wrongs and blessed for your rights. Meditate: sit quietly under a tree in the forest or a park, close your eyes and still your mind. Listen for the voice. GOD is speaking to us all the time. It's just that most of the time we are too busy talking to hear Him.

If you're hearing any voices in your head besides yours, you need psychiatric help. Ask any psychiatrist. They'll tell you the same.

Also, remove the fear through love.

What fear? I'm not one of those people that fear. I don't even fear death, and anything else (except pain) seems rather tame in comparison. Do you have to be in a constant state of fear first?

Easy answer to some of these:

A) A perfect being made an imperfect one because the perfect one chose to. Why? Because of sin. The Devil tricked the humans into sin. How you ask? How did the Devil, trick a perfect (at the time) human into this? Because the Devil was an angel, a more powerful entity than the human at the time. That is where the imperfect human came from, as a punishment from God.

B) How does something create a SUPREME and ALMIGHTY being? If it is SUPREME and ALMIGHTY, then it is created by nothing, but is the creator. How has God been there? God is infinite. True infinity humans cannot understand. It is impossible for humans to truly understand infinity because humans aren't infinite themselves. We have beginnings and endings.

C) Something had to have put the ball there, we just do not know what. This is what we call God, the supreme being that creates all. We cannot say what God is, a spirit, a physical creator, an object, because we have not seen him/her/it in person ourselves. It is not hard to expierence God, like some people on this board are skeptic of. The steps are simple enough for some, but for others, it isn't.
This is how I live my life as best I can, and expierence God in my heart.

a. Love unconditionally (sometimes it is hard, other times it isn't. Do this as best you can, and you are already 70% closer to being with God in heaven.

b. Be at peace with your fellow people. If they attack you, let them. Earth is but a temporary life anyways, and I, myself, would not mind passing peacefully. If they want to attack you, let them attack you, as long as your spirit is settled and in your heart and conscience you know that you are doing the right thing.

Are these too hard? This is what I get when I read the Commandments, and read the proverbs, and psalms, etc.

Sometimes people don't understand God. God is love, peace, beauty. Do you see these around you? The stars, to me, strongly represents God in my life. Why? Because I think the stars and magnificent. I can stare at the stars for an hour straight, and not get bored or tired. I believe that whatever you see as beauty, can be God. Some people, that have deranged thoughts or minds, might say murder is beautiful. Obviously not, why? Because, if you are sane person without any mental disorders, your conscience will tell you so. It is all belief and thought. Back to the topic at hand, I fully, 100% believe God or a God created the universe, something put the ball there, whether it was God or not. Whatever put the ball there, would be the more supreme being would it not?

Peace and love,

-wD



[Edited on 30-12-2003 by WeBDeviL]

Originally posted by jammerman
Faith is fundamental to existence. It's a question of where we put our faith, in the Heavens or in the material world. Science is faith based as well. You cannot prove anything.

I've already had this argument with someone else in another thread, but I must point out that you're wrong. Science and scientific theory are two entirely different things. Factual science deals with hypothesis that have been thoroughly tested and found to be 100% consistent. Gravity, for instance. Anything you drop will fall/accelerate at exactly the same speed/rate with no resistance. This is proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Other theories, which you may or may not grasp the complexity of, are based upon this one. They're all very closely related, since most scientific math is either directly or indirectly proportionate to well known and proven facts. Too many xians confuse theory and hypothesis to try to argue their views. It's a BS argument, based on their lack of understanding the difference between solid fact, theory, and hypothesis.

[Edited on 12-30-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by jammerman
There is no secret.
I stated it right in my last post.... You have to make the choice to open yourself to GOD. Remove judgment. Remove right/wrong and allow yourself to be forgiven for your wrongs and blessed for your rights. Meditate: sit quietly under a tree in the forest or a park, close your eyes and still your mind. Listen for the voice. GOD is speaking to us all the time. It's just that most of the time we are too busy talking to hear Him.

If you're hearing any voices in your head besides yours, you need psychiatric help. Ask any psychiatrist. They'll tell you the same.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I was referring to the intuition, a sense of inner knowing. Perhaps some really do "hear" GOD, but that was not the meaning I intended. I should have chosen my words a bit more carefully I suppose

I'm happy to hear that you have no fear except for pain. Are you afraid of the pain itself or of the idea of pain? What kind of pain? Physical, emotional, spiritual? What kinds of pain have you experienced? Please share if you care to.
Fear does have a purpose in this world, but in limited amounts and under specific instances. Many people are paralyzed by fear to experience this world as it was intended. Fear prevents experience, which prevents growth, which keeps us from moving towards the Source. But sometimes, it helps us to have respect for things which will harm us. Take fire, for instance... Should you fear being burned?

Peace,

+Jammer

What fear? I'm not one of those people that fear. I don't even fear death, and anything else (except pain) seems rather tame in comparison. Do you have to be in a constant state of fear first?

Hey, nice contradictory statement there! You say you are a person who does not fear, yet, you fear pain.

Nice,

-wD

Originally posted by WeBDeviL

What fear? I'm not one of those people that fear. I don't even fear death, and anything else (except pain) seems rather tame in comparison. Do you have to be in a constant state of fear first?

Wouldn't fearing pain put you in a constant state of fear? That is, since you said, I do not fear anything EXCEPT pain, but fearing pain would put you in a constant state of fear. That contradicts itself.

-wD

No, because I'm not in danger of being hurt constantly, IMO. Now, if I'm hanging above a huge bin of razor blades by a thread, then yes...I might be in a constant state of fear, until I'm removed from that situation. I don't fear what may never happen. That's anti-productive.

Nice edit, but I liked it better before you edited it. It gives me a chance to explain.

I like to drive fast. I know I can get severely injured, or even killed, driving fast, but it doesn't scare me in the least. Neither does riding a dirt bike through the trees at 90MPH. I have respect for the fact that I could be hurt, but I don't fear it. Everyone knows that pain is unpleasant, but I see no reason to continue fearing it while I'm not in danger.

[Edited on 12-30-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Originally posted by WeBDeviL

What fear? I'm not one of those people that fear. I don't even fear death, and anything else (except pain) seems rather tame in comparison. Do you have to be in a constant state of fear first?

Wouldn't fearing pain put you in a constant state of fear? That is, since you said, I do not fear anything EXCEPT pain, but fearing pain would put you in a constant state of fear. That contradicts itself.

-wD

No, because I'm not in danger of being hurt constantly, IMO. Now, if I'm hanging above a huge bin of razor blades by a thread, then yes...I might be in a constant state of fear, until I'm removed from that situation. I don't fear what may never happen. That's anti-productive.

Nice edit, but I liked it better before you edited it. It gives me a chance to explain.

I like to drive fast. I know I can get severely injured, or even killed, driving fast, but it doesn't scare me in the least. Neither does riding a dirt bike through the trees at 90MPH. I have respect for the fact that I could be hurt, but I don't fear it.

[Edited on 12-30-2003 by Satyr]

??? I'm confused with your last statement. What's the difference between hanging above a bunch of razor blades and driving really fast? Both are likely to kill you and both do not directly involve pain, only the threat of it. So, where's the difference? Please explain.

I have control over one situation, and the other I don't. Since I can't control the things I can't control, why should I worry about them happening? There's nothing I could do to stop them anyway, right?

The "hanging by a thread" scenario is assuming I didn't put myself in that situation.

[Edited on 12-30-2003 by Satyr]