Why Don't you Beleive in God?

Originally posted by Chud
Why do you need to use God and religion as an excuse to 'love thy neighbour' and such. I am a perfectly kind, generous and loving person, and I didn't need religion to tell me to be this way.

This post is not neccessarily about any god in any religion but more about do you beleive that a God created the universe or did the universe create itself?

I know, I ventured a little off the path
I suppose we'll never *know* what created the universe...
...I suppose the Big Bang theory is just as valid as your god theory, so tbh, this discussion is rather pointless as we'lll never get anywhere

Why God?

Why not Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy? Alien life, Superman, ghosts, telepathy?

People believe as they wish. Some need the exsistance of a higher power to justify their life and actions. What if aliens "seeded" this planet and then handed down some basic (10) rules for primative man to survive, and they became the foundation of religion? What if someone decided to become the primative "John Titor" and invented the whole thing? What if the the original NWO invented it for control?

Can I prove God does not exist? No. But you cannot prove any of my theories are false either.

In the end, people will believe what they want. Generally, people need to believe in some outside power. Primative man had a belief in a rain god, a snow god, a thunder god...all for what they did not understand. You could never argue with them (at that time with that knowledge), yet we know now...they are wrong.

Like I said, believe or not is personal choice. It when people try to force their choice on others that bothers me. I do find it interesting that when someone scores in the big game...they thank God. When they hit a tree with the car...God why? God please get me a job, etc, etc...

I guess it is much better than taking responsibility. Life is hard. My daughter has a medical condition. Did God give that to her? No. Will God heal her? No. It was not gremlins or alien dna modifications. It was not ghost/spirit intervention or a voodoo curse. It is just life. Hard or not...that is the way it is.

in a sense, you could say that GOD started it all, considering that he was all powerful and such, that would make sense in that circumstance. i could just as easily say that the easter bunny created the universe considering that i thought it had GODLY powers. but anyways, back to my reason.

firsty im fully open to the possibility of GOD being real. infact i could be wrong about everything here. it's just what feels right for ME, so thus it becomes right/correct for ME.

i guess i've just been really pissed off at the way he's portrayed in the bible. i mean, if i want to talk to someone who is liable to get extremely pissed off at times, then great at other times, i'd just aswell see my own father.

but i guess it all comes down to the point where where your supposed to always feel like some grateful piece of # in his presence/glory. i mean, how big a head does this guy have, what more does he want/need? it's GOD! if things were not the way he wanted them to be, then im sure he'd change/fix it to be otherwise.

so when i see christians talking in groups on how little they are and unworhty and sinful they are, that just pisses me off. if anything, i like to believe that most people are created out of love (two people joining together in a magnificant union of joy and happiness).

and lastly, the churches/clergy. i think this was a really bad idea on how to go about spreading the word.

over all, i choose to follow my heart thank you very much.

ps: everything i've said could be wrong, not everyone can admit that.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
Why God?

Why not Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy? Alien life, Superman, ghosts, telepathy?

ha! sorry there dude, just read that before i posted my 2cents.

DATE: ETERNITY

FROM: GOD

TO: MY CHILDREN ON EARTH

RE: IDIOTIC RELIGOUS RIVALRIES

My Dear Children (and believe me, that's all of you),

I consider myself a pretty patient Guy. I mean, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millons of years to get it right. And how about evolution? Boy, nothing is slower than designing that whole Daewinian thing to take place, cell by cell and gene by gene. I've even been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes, and the countless ways you take me for granted until you get yourselves in big trouble again and again.
But on this occasion of My Son's 2003rd birthday, I want to tell you about some things that are starting to tick me off.
First, all of your religous rivalries are driving Me up a wall. Enogh Already! Let's get one thing straight: These are your religons, not Mine. I'm the whole enchilada; I'm the Spirit behind them all. Every single one of your religons claims there's only one of Me--which, by the way, is absolutly true. But in the very next breath, each religon claims it's My favorite one. And each claims the bible was written personally by Me, and that all the other bibles are man-made. Oh, Me. How do I even begin to put an end to such nonsense?
OK, listen up now: I'm your father and Mother, and I don't play favorites among my Children. Also, I hate to break it to you, but I don't write. My longhand is awful, and I've always been more of a "doer" anyhow. So all your books, including the bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. I made sure of that, so that you could never trust a written word more than your own living heart. You see, one Human Being to Me-- even a bum on the street--is worth more than all the holy books of the world. That's the kind of Guy I am. My spirit is not an historical thing, It's alive right here, right now as fresh as your next breath. Holy books and religous rites are sacred and poiwerful, but not so than the least of You. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Me.
Which brings Me to My next point about Your nonsense: You act like I need You and your religions to stick up for Me or win souls for My Sake. Please, don't do me any favors. I can stand on My own, thank you. I need you to defend Me like Mike Tyson needs Peewee Herman as a bodyguard.
And another thing: I don't get all worked up over politics or money, so stop dragging My name into Your dramas. For example, I swear to Me that I never threatened Oral Roberts, I never told Rajneech I preferred Rolls Royces. I never told Pat Robinson to run for president, and I've never had a conversation with Jim Baker or Jerry Fallwell! Of course, come judgement day I intend to....
The thing is, I want you to stop thinking of religon as as some sort of loyalty pledge to Me. The true purpose of your religons is so that you can become more aware of Me, not the other way around. Believe Me, I know You already. I know what's in each of your hearts, and I love You with no strings attached. Lighten up and enjoy Me. That's what religon is for.
What you seem to forget is how mysterious I am. You look at the petty little differences in your scriptures and say, "Well, if this is the Truth, then that can't be!" But instaed of trying to figure out My Paradoxes and Subleties--which, by the way, you never will--why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in every religon?
You know what I am talking about: Love and respect everyone. Be kind. Even when life is scary or confusing, take courage and be of good cheer, for I am always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear My Still, Small Voice( I do not like to shout). Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulnes, for you are My Own Child. Hold nothing back from life, for the parts of you that can die will surely die, and the parts that can't, won't. So don't worry, be happy.
Simple stuff. Wht do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you are always looking for a reason to be upset. And I'm very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think I care whether you call me Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Wakentonka,Brahma, Father, Mother, or even the Void or Nirvana? Do you think I care which of My Special Children you feel closet to-- Jesus, Mary, Budda, Krishna, Mohhammed or any of the others? You can call Me and My Special Ones any name you choose, if only you wouls go about My business of loving one another as I love You. How can You keep forgetting something so simple?
I'm not telling you to abandon your religons. I want you to enjoy your religons, honor them, learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents. But do you walk around telling everyone that your parents are better than theirs? Your religon, like your parents, may always have the most special place in your heart; I don't mind that at all. And I don't want you to combine all the Great Traditions into One Big Mess. Each religon is unique for a reason. Each has a unique style so that people can find the best path for themselves. But My Special Children-- the ones your religon revolves around--all live in one place (My Heart) and they get along perfectly, I assure you. The clergy must stop creating of sibling rivalry when there is none.
My Blessed Children of Earth, the worls has grown too small for your pervasive religousbigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, computers, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns. Get with the Program! If you really want me to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your everyday life a shining exampleof kindness and good humor. I've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving and laughing together.
Finally, My Children everywhere, remember whose birth is honored on December 25th, and the fearlessness with which He chose to live and die. As I love Him, so do I love each one of you. I'm not really ticked off, I just wanted to grab your attention because I hate to see you suffer. But I gave You free will, so what can I do now other than try to influence you through reason, presuasion, and a little old- fashioned guilt and manipulation? After all, I am the Jewish Mother. I just want you to be happy, and I'll sit in the dark. I really am, indeed, I swear, with you always. Always. Trust in Me.
Your One and Only.
GOD

The idea of 'god' just controdicts itself.
God created everything, so what created god.
To believew that one thing is in overall control and can see and here everything is idiotic.

I don't believe in God b/c I believe that man is his own god. We don't need god to succeed. God only holds people back. Who doesn't remember the Crusades and how bloody and sinful they were and how stupid they made Europe look? Who doesn't realize that Muslim, Jews, and Christians are all worshipping the same god, nevermind that they're all stemming from a bunch of mythological sources from pre-Israel civilizations based on Jesus who's actually sun-god and everything? From what I've read from David Icke, I have come to believe that the universe is more holographic and we have created the universe ourselves. I mean, seriously, would God wanna create a world like ours that would eventually become what it is today? a haunted planet full of the paranormal and ghosts and magick and interdimensional beings such as reptilians and Pleiades. I think not.

There is scientific evidence for a holographic universe so don't start bashing me saying I am insane. and don't say I'm insensitive for what I am about to say. I used to be a christian a year ago and I know how crappy it is and all the fallacies and contradictions behind it. after being a christian for about 6 months I began to question my faith and read things like Zecharia Sitchin. I began to realize that the god myth is nothing more than tales of alien interaction with man so God does not exist. I also didn't like the way Jesus and God were so dictatorial. You can't be gay and it's a sin to be gay in God's book although there's about 5% of the world population are gay. what's up with that? Don't forget just how much of a tyrant Jehovah is. He claims he loves all humans but he punished adam and eve for being curious and eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Why should I obey some idiot who thinks he knows all? Satan is the true god. He freed man from the awful harshness of god by allowing him to have free will.

If god loved all man why would he force us to be slaves of him with some of his ridiculous sins like don't have sex before marriage or don't be gay or the other 5000 sins there are? Man should be able to make his own decisions and karma should be the end result, not god's judgment. Just b/c I wasn't around when this supposed "God" was doesn't mean that I hafta put up with his nonsense. I will never bow down to a god. Even if that means I'll go to hell if I die I'll gladly choose that over being in some false paradise where I hafta live by god's rules and try to force others to be like Him.

I mean, where did God ever give us our advancements? We only got our advancements by sometimes aliens and ourselves. Man created cell phones, game consoles, aircraft, spacecraft, some weaopns for war, and many more technologies by himself. He didn't ask for god's help nor did he need it. So I ask you, what good was God to man? He only made the world and mankind miserable and true Hell is living by his own rules. Why should I be all 'moral' and # as God intended throughout my life for a limit of 100 years and never be truly happy b/c anything I consider happiness is automatically banned by him? no drinking, no strip clubs or promiscuous sex, no smoking, no gambling, etc. Some people may consider these vices and I don't do them either but I'm just saying. I'd rather be happy in this life than waste it for decades thinking that I'd go to some 'heaven' which when I die doesn't even exist so I know that I've wasted my life.

I say, everyone should just try to be happy in this life b/c you don't truly know what'll happen next. If I knew that the afterlife of being in heaven required me to be moral all my life then maybe I would be a christian or soemthing (only if God isn't in heaven with me cuz I don't want that tyrant there).

Originally posted by AlexJones
I don't believe in God b/c I believe that man is his own god. We don't need god to succeed. God only holds people back. Who doesn't remember the Crusades and how bloody and sinful they were and how stupid they made Europe look? Who doesn't realize that Muslim, Jews, and Christians are all worshipping the same god, nevermind that they're all stemming from a bunch of mythological sources from pre-Israel civilizations based on Jesus who's actually sun-god and everything? From what I've read from David Icke, I have come to believe that the universe is more holographic and we have created the universe ourselves. I mean, seriously, would God wanna create a world like ours that would eventually become what it is today? a haunted planet full of the paranormal and ghosts and magick and interdimensional beings such as reptilians and Pleiades. I think not.

There is scientific evidence for a holographic universe so don't start bashing me saying I am insane. and don't say I'm insensitive for what I am about to say. I used to be a christian a year ago and I know how crappy it is and all the fallacies and contradictions behind it. after being a christian for about 6 months I began to question my faith and read things like Zecharia Sitchin. I began to realize that the god myth is nothing more than tales of alien interaction with man so God does not exist. I also didn't like the way Jesus and God were so dictatorial. You can't be gay and it's a sin to be gay in God's book although there's about 5% of the world population are gay. what's up with that? Don't forget just how much of a tyrant Jehovah is. He claims he loves all humans but he punished adam and eve for being curious and eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Why should I obey some idiot who thinks he knows all? Satan is the true god. He freed man from the awful harshness of god by allowing him to have free will.

If god loved all man why would he force us to be slaves of him with some of his ridiculous sins like don't have sex before marriage or don't be gay or the other 5000 sins there are? Man should be able to make his own decisions and karma should be the end result, not god's judgment. Just b/c I wasn't around when this supposed "God" was doesn't mean that I hafta put up with his nonsense. I will never bow down to a god. Even if that means I'll go to hell if I die I'll gladly choose that over being in some false paradise where I hafta live by god's rules and try to force others to be like Him.

I mean, where did God ever give us our advancements? We only got our advancements by sometimes aliens and ourselves. Man created cell phones, game consoles, aircraft, spacecraft, some weaopns for war, and many more technologies by himself. He didn't ask for god's help nor did he need it. So I ask you, what good was God to man? He only made the world and mankind miserable and true Hell is living by his own rules. Why should I be all 'moral' and # as God intended throughout my life for a limit of 100 years and never be truly happy b/c anything I consider happiness is automatically banned by him? no drinking, no strip clubs or promiscuous sex, no smoking, no gambling, etc. Some people may consider these vices and I don't do them either but I'm just saying. I'd rather be happy in this life than waste it for decades thinking that I'd go to some 'heaven' which when I die doesn't even exist so I know that I've wasted my life.

I say, everyone should just try to be happy in this life b/c you don't truly know what'll happen next. If I knew that the afterlife of being in heaven required me to be moral all my life then maybe I would be a christian or soemthing (only if God isn't in heaven with me cuz I don't want that tyrant there).

Wow

I think the above post is one of the saddest I've read on ATS. Full of judgement and full of errors.
I'm not saying that you're "wrong." But you certainly haven't researched your beliefs.

Read a few things, but made your mind up a bit too soon me thinks.

Keep reading.
Keep an open mind.
Keep searching.

I don't think you've even found yourself yet.

+Jammer

Man what a great thread!!! Anyhoo,,,,,

Do I believe in God? No
A higher power? Could be
There is so much out there in the so called "Universe" that can and will never be answered. I go by scientific evidence, not mythology. Because when we come straight down to it,,,religion is all mythos.
see:

www.wordreference.com...

To believe there is a higher entity, or a GOD is just "Human Arrogance". This means that as humans, the majority of us have to believe that a "being" created man, woman, stars, etc. As it is Old World sexism that depicts men as major figures in religion. Look at Roman Catholic History (or historie(s)) I should say,,LOL Why did GOD have a son, why not a daughter? It was Eve who bit the apple first. Right? Why not Noah's wife's Ark? Why do a lot of people refer to GOD as He/Him? Get the idea,,,,

Bottom line is NOBODY knows for sure and ya just have to wait till you die. Sucks don't it?

One thing I agree with Alex is that the universe is holographic in nature.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Everyone who does not beleive in God.

Tell me do you honestly beleive that all the magnificent universe came from the BIG BANG. That everything we know came from a ball the size of a basketball floating in nothingness.

Well, you're assuming that, just because we don't believe in [your] god, we automatically believe the big bang brought us into existance. Nice generalization. I believe in a form of the big bang, as I'll explain in a minute.

Where did the basketball come from? What is the Nothingness?

Do you really expect anyone to be able to answer this? We weren't around at this time, so we wouldn't know, for one. For another, why does this matter? How does this have anything to do what is happening now? You people...always focusing on the past to try and prove what you belief to be true, rather than focusing on the present.

The universe just is and always has been right?

God just is and always has been right?

I beleive that the God spoke of in the Bible put it there but everyone here should agree that some supreme being started it all.

Why should everyone agree that some supreme being started it all? Because *YOU* say so? Because *YOU* believe something, you think everyone else is required to accept it as truth, or fact?

Now, I believe the bible-god exists. I believe he is just as hateful and intolerant and childish as the bible presents him to be - which is very much so. I choose not to worship him; I choose not to worship Satan, either. I see the two on the same level: brothers competing for souls by destroying this and that and blaming it on each other.

Now, I believe that the universe began much like many of us believe it did, with a tremendous explosion. In the beginning, before the universe, God was a singular being which had no reference point beyond Itself, because there was nothing else It could compare Itself to. Like an eye that cannot see itself in a universe where nothing else exists. It sought to know Itself, and therefore exploded with great joy, creating an infinite number of pieces through which It could now experience Itself,
and could know Itself. These pieces are what we call souls. Each soul is a part of, and connected to the absolute Unity, which is God.

In order for God, that is, each soul, to experience itself anew, they then needed to forget what they knew. During this event, we then took on these physical bodies so that we could reinvent ourselves, and create our beings as we saw fit. It can be a
very difficult thing for a soul to take on a body. It is a joyful experience though, for they are then allowed to reinvent themselves. It is, however, no more or less joyful when the soul leaves the body in death, for they are then allowed to rejoin the divine Unity. During our souls' time in the universe, we have as many chances as we choose to remember whom and what we are to bring ourselves back to the divine Unity. This is what many call reincarnation. Although we were designed in God's image (that is we were meant to live forever) we here on Earth invented what we now call death. Because one cannot usually recall their true being within a single lifetime, we continue to be reborn into whatever form we choose and to experience whatever we choose.

I spoke with my college chemistry teacher on my concerns of God and he told quite an interesting story. He basically stated that from his knowledge and his experiences DNA could not have been created by evolution with evidence that man now possesses.

DNA and protein are essentially simple molecules in that each is a chain or polymer of repeated units. DNA is a series of bases or nucleotides, and a protein is a series of amino acids. In all living systems an inherited sequence of bases in DNA directs production of the specific sequence of amino acids characteristic of each kind of protein.

If this relationship between DNA and protein is a result of time, chance, and natural processes, then there must be some sort of chemical tendency for DNA and protein to react. Is there? Yes, indeed. Everyone who has mixed baking soda and vinegar knows that acids and bases react, and certainly amino acids and DNA bases would react. Sugar-acid, aminephosphoric acid, and a whole host of other natural chemical reactions would also occur among any random fragments of DNA and protein.

Does this natural tendency of DNA and protein fragments to react chemically, then, suggest that time, chance, and the laws of chemistry would eventually produce life from some mixture of these molecules? No. Just the opposite. The problem is that all these natural chemical reactions are the wrong reactions as far as living systems are concerned. Left to time, chance, and their own chemical tendencies, DNA and protein react in ways that destroy a living system and would prevent any postulated evolution of life. In fact, natural cross links between DNA and proteins contribute somewhat to gene inactivation during aging, and base-amino acid reactions are part of the wholesale chemical catastrophe that occurs in a dying cell.

But in living cells, DNA is used to code for the production of proteins in a special way that no chemist would ever have a reason to suspect. Groups of bases, taken three at a time, are used to specify the alignment of particular amino acids each identified by its R group. The 20 different R groups vary widely�acid, base, fat soluble, water soluble, a single hydrogen atom, a long chain, no ring, single ring, or double ring. Now, there is no natural chemical tendency whatsoever for a series of triplet base groups to line up a series of amino acid R groups. Further, since there is no chemical basis for the triplet base/R group relationship, time and chance cannot help establish that link any more than they could make it possible to roll a l3 on a pair of dice.

Pretty interesting I admit but I don't think it can fully explain that God exsists.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
What I am really wondering here is this. When I was a teenager I went through a stage when I questioned the exsistence of God because I thought to myself who created God and who Created the guy that created God and so on and so forth.

Now when I think about it something had to create it all. Something had to set all of the big bangs in motion. I just think its naive to beleive that everything just sorta happened.

Of Course this is my personal opinion and I am very interested in hearing everyone elses beliefs

So, you think god is in charge of all super novas, and every other cosmic occurance?

The universe is perpetual, or as close as anything will ever get to it. Perpetual motion, by definition, does not need a creator. God would also be a perpetual machine, would he not? What's the difference in the universe needing a creator, and god needing a creator? Either both need to be created, or both could be perpetual. There's absolutely no reason to assume that the universe needed a creator, since it's been there a lot longer than the bible. Also, if god doesn't need a creator, then that goes to say that there could be many other things that don't need a creator. Gods, on the other hand, are only as old as humans, IMO. This is extremely apparent, since the stories have changed from animal gods, the sun mythical gods on mountains, to our present day religions. It's the old "who made who?" again.

We don't have the understanding to begin to think of how the universe was created. I think it may be fun to talk about but noone is close to the mark.

If I took my plasma television deep into the amazon jungle and played a DVD for a tribe that is still living in the stone age and asked how it was created, they won't have a clue. They will say lots of strange things, some will say gods or demons must have created the strange machine making the people appear. What other explanation could there be for such a wonderous thing. We know that is utter nonsense.

Ask a person at the beginning of the 21st century how the universe was created. Nobody really has a clue. They will say all sorts of different things. Some will say that gods must have created it. What other explanation could there be for such a wonderous thing...

Originally posted by bensrob
The idea of 'god' just controdicts itself.
God created everything, so what created god.
To believew that one thing is in overall control and can see and here everything is idiotic.

Well, it's pretty arrogant for any individual to claim that they 'know it all' anyways. When it's over we'll find out won't we

I'd also like to add that those who have never been Christians, and also those who've never experienced Atheism etc etc etc. And i mean unless you've experienced 'all avenues of religion, non religions belief systems, ideologies, ideas and so forth, you cannot claim to know anything other than what you feel. And as we all know, feelings betray. So unless you can say, Yes i've been there, experienced "that religion" and done that, you can't claim to 'know much of anything'. Try experiencing everything and then come back and tell me God exists not


[Edited on 22-12-2003 by Sapphire]

god in the conventional sense (i.e islamic jewish or christian) just doesnt make any sense, i'll admit the universe dosnt make sense but at least we're progressing and unveiling its secrets. conventional religion has had 2000 years to come up with a better theory and have made little progress... just my views... i do however believe we are all gods in control of our destiny and matters which affect ourselves whether diretly or inderectly

Originally posted by Sapphire
Well, it's pretty arrogant for any individual to claim that they 'know it all' anyways. When it's over we'll find out won't we

I'd also like to add that those who have never been Christians, and also those who've never experienced Atheism etc etc etc. And i mean unless you've experienced 'all avenues of religion, non religions belief systems, ideologies, ideas and so forth, you cannot claim to know anything other than what you feel. And as we all know, feelings betray. So unless you can say, Yes i've been there, experienced "that religion" and done that, you can't claim to 'know much of anything'. Try experiencing everything and then come back and tell me God exists not

I agree. I used to be a xian, before I started thinking about it. Luckily, my family wasn't heavily religious, otherwise I'd probably still be going to church, incapable of questioning this bizarre belief. It's strange how, once they've been into religion long enough, the ability (or the need) to question it disappears.

[Edited on 12-24-2003 by Satyr]

It's just turtles...all the way down.

But seriously, why don't I believe in some sort of god 'figure'? I don't need to. It is as simple as that. I will live my life as I see fit for me.

Originally posted by Chud
Why do you need to use God and religion as an excuse to 'love thy neighbour' and such. I am a perfectly kind, generous and loving person, and I didn't need religion to tell me to be this way.

No, you didn't need religion to tell you to be this way. However, you did use the spirituality within yourself. The Holy Spirit exists within each and everyone. The ones who listen to their spirit are truly blessed. The ones who ignore the spirit live their lives in turmoil.