Dulce Underground Base Alien War Question

i check this thread just because is kinda funny.

i'll join again the 'playing dumb' game.

ummmm...i think the alleged lie would be about the existence of dulce underground base.

now, my personal conclusion:

the facts;

all we have for the ''facts'' is johnlears story and a claim that he has evidence.
after few people asked to see that or any evidence which will prove existence of dulce, and they were pretty specific about it.
mr.lear started playing semantic games (if you read last 2 or 3 pages, you'll see what i mean).
no evidence was provided.
my guess, none will.

so.........

the dulce story is pure fiction.
not because no evidence was provided but because the man who claims he has it repeatedly AVOIDS to provide it.

(PS. using semantics to pull yourself out of this one is just pathetic)


no offense intended. this is just being objective.

while i was writing the post above, the semantic games continued.

just proved my point.

This is all very interesting, the way the human mind works, and how selective it is. On one hand, a doctor's word as a scientist, cannot be argued and on the other hand, a doctor's word as a scientist, can be argued with if it happens to be in disagreement in anyway, with any given individual's viewpoint. I'm the same way. it's a weird phenomenon. Only difference is, I don't think these fellows realize they are doing it. I think of this particular approach as the appeal from authority. However, they've assigned themselves as the final authority and no amount of respectable, well-educated, specialized references will suffice.

So let's assume Mr. Lear provides you with the photographs in question, mind you, they may not even be in his possession or exist any longer (and before you call foul, I'll direct you to the fact NASA lost the Apollo film footage), but let's say for sake of this discussion, that they do exist and he goes to all the trouble to get them here so you can see them. The new argument would be -- oh that doesn't even look like a dome, much less a domed saucer. Or i don't see any thing on this x-ray (nevermind that it takes an x-ray specialist to read an x-ray).

its not about his word, its about avoiding to provide evidence when asked.

anyone's word can be questioned.

one can provide evidence to back his word.
one can refuse to provide evidence.
one can avoid to provide anything.

now, do i need to be more specific?

Originally posted by undo

So let's assume Mr. Lear provides you with the photographs in question, mind you, they may not even be in his possession or exist any longer (and before you call foul, I'll direct you to the fact NASA lost the Apollo film footage), but let's say for sake of this discussion, that they do exist and he goes to all the trouble to get them here so you can see them. The new argument would be -- oh that doesn't even look like a dome, much less a domed saucer. Or i don't see any thing on this x-ray (nevermind that it takes an x-ray specialist to read an x-ray).

But at least we would have made progress in this discussion and would have something more tangible to investigate rather than word. I would rather be shown some of these alleged photos and xray instead of taking someones word for it. And I do not think that important documents such as those would be "lost" or "destroyed". This is supposed to be evidence of Alien existence on Earth. Would YOU just leave them in your garage to rot away beside your tools and lawnmower? So yes calling foul is an option because if I had material such as that I can guarantee you that they would not "go missing".

Ok, I'll try to keep that from getting lost in the clutter ...

Mr. Lear, you said (emphasis by me):

Originally posted by johnlear
Dr. Bennewitz gave me the x-ray of Myrna Hansen's head showing the the chip and the photos he had taken of the dome shaped saucers operating from the MWSA. 2 other government employees confirmed the existence of Dulce one of whom told me he knew it as Section D.

And sip responded with:

Originally posted by sip
Ok John time to show some evidence. With regards to your above statement:

1. Where is this X-Ray of Myrna Hansens head?
   
2. Where are the photos of the dome shaped saucers?
   
3. Who are the two government employees? What departments do they work for?
   

I'll second the challenge:

Please show us the images (x-ray showing a "chip"; "dome-shaped" saucers)!

If you fail to do so - especially, if you fail to do so without even touching the subject - I will call call the above quoted statement of yours a lie. I think 5 days or so should be enough for you to find the photos, scan them, and upload them to the internet. No more evasion, side-stepping and straw-man creation!

Regards
yf

Originally posted by yfxxx

Where is this X-Ray of Myrna Hansens head?

I gave it to Ron Regher, he never returned it.

Where are the photos of the dome shaped saucers?

Who are the two government employees? What departments do they work for?

My 3 sources for people who worked there are:

Thomas Costello
Dan Burisch
Mr. X (2) (He is now deceased. I will not provide his name as one of his sons is still living).

who gave you those images, john?

and how long ago was it?

thank you mr.lear.

that wasn't so hard was it?

won't analyse it or argue its authenticity. not because i'm convinced but because i just don't care.


goodnight & good luck

Originally posted by undo
who gave you those images, john?

and how long ago was it?

The images were taken by Paul Bennewitz from his terrace which overlooked the Manzano Weapons Storage area where the craft were continually landing and departing. He had a televison camera recording the area 24 hours a day. The TV recorded to tape, I don't know which kind. These camera photos were taken off of the television screen while replaying some of the video.

These photos were given by Paul Benniwitz to Chris Lambright who gave them to me. I had some 8x10 of these but gave them back to Chris. These images are scanned from my 2 photos which are in 5x7 format.

These images where taken in 1986 or 1987 and Chris gave them to me in 1987.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by yfxxx

Where is this X-Ray of Myrna Hansens head?

I gave it to Ron Regher, he never returned it.

My 3 sources for people who worked there are:

Thomas Costello
Dan Burisch
Mr. X (2) (He is now deceased. I will not provide his name as one of his sons is still living).

Can you retrieve the X-Ray from Ron Regher?

Who did Mr X work for? And during what period? How would he know of such information?

sip

Ok John I was saying that you may or may not be/have been lying about any or all aspects of the Dulce underground base. But it was a hypothetical meant to demonstrate to a member why evidence needs to be provided not to accuse you. So I can present no specifics on what I think you might have been lying about because I don’t think you were lying, I am in a position of ambiguity on whether this is all true or not.


Thank you for providing the image, a few questions.

Do you have any written, preferably signed statement from Paul Bennewitz to corroborate that this was taken from the video you said, where and when you say it was taken. Or indeed anything else that would prove this.

Do you have any other images from the same tape that would put it into context (an object in the background, someone’s hand entering into frame etc).

What in these photos suggests that they are flying saucers?

Why do you think these point to a Dulce base considering the large number of other similar videos/images from around the world?

And is this the only evidence you have?

Originally posted by johnlear
My 3 sources for people who worked there are:

Thomas Costello
Dan Burisch
Mr. X (2) (He is now deceased. I will not provide his name as one of his sons is still living).

Hi John,

Does the (2) mean this is a different Mr. X to the Commander X revealed in 1999 as Jim Keith? Or is this the same person, but the Jim Keith claim is disinfo? Or does it mean something else altogether?

Cheers.

Originally posted by sip

Can you retrieve the X-Ray from Ron Regher?

I just called Ron who is retired from Aerojet-General and lives in Moab Utah. He says the x-ray was in a file cabinet that was taken by his wife along with everything else he owned during a nasty divorce. He says he took the x-ray to Dr. Chester Johnson who confirmed the wire object at the base of Hansens skull was not normal but he had no opinion on whether or not it was alien in origin. Ron says the doctor thought it was debris from the x-ray lab.

Who did Mr X work for? And during what period? How would he know of such information?

U.S. Government is all I know. His job was supervising the building of huge mining machines that were shipped to the moon. One of them was over 30 stories tall. He said we had bases both on the moon and Mars.

John is almost 100% correct. Dr. Johnson didn't know what the item was and speculated it might have been a metal scrap (origin unknown) IN THE PERSON.

NASTY divorce (still going on since 1998!!!) The "EX" destroyed 23 archive boxes of data, three 5-drawer file cabinets (including the X-Ray John speaks of) and my library of over 600 volumes of UFO books. Not to mention a complete video editing suite, all my clothes, all my weapons, all my tools, you get the idea. I left with my 8-year old pickup and the clothes on my back.
Best!
Ron
P.S. Thanks John. I need your email.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by shadow fax

but yeah, i think thats where the idea of you lying comes from etc..

cheers

Thanks shadow fax and I think you may be correct. What I am trying to find out is WHICH PART do they think I made up:

Am I lying about meeting Tom Adams in Crestone?

And lying that Tom handed me the note from the guy in Henderson?

And that Tom asked me to investigate it.

Am I lying about meeting that same man in Las Vegas?

Am I lying about the man giving me the pencil drawings that Thomas Costello allegedly gave him?

Am I lying about copying them in pen and ink?

Am I lying about copying the text that was allegedly smuggled out of Dulce and then typing it on my IBM computer?

Am I lying about letting Val Valerian but my drawings and Dulce text in Matrix 1?

Am I lying about my midnight ride with Gabe Valdez or my stay with Paul Bennewitz.

Am I lying about my dinner with Linda Howe and Col. Ernie Edwards?

I can't seem to get anybody to address this core issue. But thanks for your input and help.

I would say the accusation of lying refers to all of the above, but im not sure.

ciao
Jay

Originally posted by sip

Originally posted by shadow fax
John,

Im just going to jump on this 'lying' thing and tell you that most people tend to think that You're responsible for the Dulce story here, and they also figure that since they feel you're responsible, that you owe them proof to back your claims up.

He does owe the ATS community proof of these "claims". After admitting he HAS proof why withhold it from the community?

quite simply because it is his choice. He owes nothing to nobody. You could argue it is in his best interest to provide proof for claims IF it his wish to convince people of the truthfullness of his claims.
President Bush claimed there were WMD's in Iraq.. i might have missed it, but was there any proof for that (at the time)?

If I logged on here and claimed to know about this DUMB with alien agenda attached do you think anyone would believe me without proof?

im not sure, but i believe you have significantly less credentials on which to judge the honesty of your claims. again, im not sure as i havent checked. Thing is, JL even has his own forum section here at ATS so that at least is some form confirmation that (at least) ATS find his stories are somewhat founded. i might be wrong, but that's my guess.

This is not a personal attack on John, I just want to find the truth.

no prob, i understand your quest for truth. now that you know that asking for evidence won't work, may i ask what your next step to finding proof is?

cheers
Jay

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by yfxxx

Where is this X-Ray of Myrna Hansens head?

I gave it to Ron Regher, he never returned it.

Where are the photos of the dome shaped saucers?

Who are the two government employees? What departments do they work for?

My 3 sources for people who worked there are:

Thomas Costello
Dan Burisch
Mr. X (2) (He is now deceased. I will not provide his name as one of his sons is still living).

Thank you, Mr. Lear. For once, you gave direct answers to direct questions. This is appreciated.

As for the photos' and witnesses' authenticity and reliability, I'm right now not in the position to say anything which could stand tight scrutiny. Therefore I'll leave it at that.

Thanks again for sharing what you've got.

Regards
yf

Originally posted by shadow fax

no prob, i understand your quest for truth. now that you know that asking for evidence won't work, may i ask what your next step to finding proof is?

cheers
Jay

I have yet to decide that.

sip

Originally posted by Ron Regehr
John is almost 100% correct. Dr. Johnson didn't know what the item was and speculated it might have been a metal scrap (origin unknown) IN THE PERSON.

NASTY divorce (still going on since 1998!!!) The "EX" destroyed 23 archive boxes of data, three 5-drawer file cabinets (including the X-Ray John speaks of) and my library of over 600 volumes of UFO books. Not to mention a complete video editing suite, all my clothes, all my weapons, all my tools, you get the idea. I left with my 8-year old pickup and the clothes on my back.
Best!
Ron
P.S. Thanks John. I need your email.

Hello Ron,
So you had nothing regarding documents/photos or whatever evidence left atall? She destroyed everything?

sip