UCLA Police Taser Student For Not Showing ID W/Video

Originally posted by gekko

Originally posted by Annachie
This is a typical "Bash the man in blue" speech from most people that just do not believe that force should be used for anything...

You got it right. Dead on. Congratulations.

[/sarcasm]

Most of the "Bash the man in blue" people calling for the prosecution of these cops agree that the student was to be blamed for the situation arising in the first place.

If he had been carried outside and chucked in jail overnight no one would have had a problem with it.

Now, why don´t you go and read whats been said before on this thread before you comment further.

[edit on 18/11/06 by gekko]

The point is going beyond whether or not the student was a fault. Don't know what went on before. Assume student was resisting, eventhough he only started to "yell" when they grabbed his arm as he was leaving. The yell could have just been a raised voice that sounded louder than normal due to possible echos in the room. I really didn't see much carpeting or other types of things used to help keep to keep the noise down initially.

Fine the student may have pushed a cop, don't know. The cops tasered him and handcuffed him. Possibly.

Here is what I have a major problem with. This student was tasered two more times within an extremely short amount of time after he was handcuffed for refusing to obey an order. I'm sorry, we are not under military law. People still have the right to protest - taking the broad view here.

It did not sound like the police even gave him a chance to recouperate from the first tasering before telling him to get up and walk and tasering him again. We also don't know if he told the police that he couldn't stand the first time around. By the third time, I wouldn't blame him if he just said no.

When we did see him, the police finally had him somewhat on his feet dragging him. Why didn't they just do that in the first place? Were they not fit enough to pick him up and drag him? I thought they had to have a certain level of fitness to do that type of job.

Hence, all tasering after he was subdued and handcuffed calls for the bash the man in blue speech. After he was handcuffed, they were using the taser as an obidence tool on him like a dog. Don't respond within seconds, tasered again, still not responding in seconds tasered again. Heck, just keep tasering until he falls on the floor passed out possibly dead. Apparently it sounded like the police would not give up until he either stood or passed out possibly dead.

Personally, after hearing every thing about tasers, they should be outlawed especially for the police. I would love to see them put on the banned weapons list.

Heaven forbid any police officer uses a taser on a child. They would scar that child for life.

Originally posted by justgeneric
UCLA order outside probe of incident

Hoping to calm the furor created when UCLA police used a Taser to subdue a student studying in Powell Library, the university's acting chancellor announced Friday that a veteran Los Angeles law enforcement watchdog would head up an independent investigation of the incident.

Hmmm... one wonders if only the police are to be represented on this "independent" investigation panel?

Being familiar with the location and the security requirements, under California law if any person refuses to show identification to a Law Enforcement Officer, they can be immediately arrested. According to the local news station, he refused to show identification and refused (at first) to leave. Being a persian in L.A. I can understand the students attitude, most of them are stuck up little rich kids who trample over anyone they think is their lesser. Kid got exactly what he deserved.

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
Being familiar with the location and the security requirements, under California law if any person refuses to show identification to a Law Enforcement Officer, they can be immediately arrested. According to the local news station, he refused to show identification and refused (at first) to leave. Being a persian in L.A. I can understand the students attitude, most of them are stuck up little rich kids who trample over anyone they think is their lesser. Kid got exactly what he deserved.

Thank you 2steps.. Being in the same area you brought up alot of things i had completely forgotten about....

there have been alot of occurences of people being tased over petty things. a 17 year old was killed because of being tased too death i forgot why but he died days later. But its OK all we can do is complain about it bacause people dont want to take action... its only going to get worse. it already has this country isnt a democracy anymore, but dont worry about it just give the government your taxes and you should be fine.

You can thank a conservative movement with a blended/hidden religious agenda Plus a democratic group that thinks that it is ok to fix elections through redistricting themselves into voting groups that are safe for them like what they have done in California.

Far as people dying being tazered... Non-lethal force does not mean it is 100% safe.

As was stated by many people earlier. If he just A) had his ID, B) Showed his id. C) Did not "cop" an attitude and try to start a riot over what was a simple question then maybe he wouldn't have gotten the treatment.

People want something to complain about. Go pester a politician over the horse slaughter act and get it passed....

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Your kidding right?

Your major is in emergency scene managment, or law enforcement? What the heck man you think just because you bow down to someone with a badge you are a good little citizen and everything will be a-ok in child land? You need to grow up and do it fast, because a lot of crazy sh!t is about to hit this country like you wouldnt believe.

I have the authority to be Incident Command, and shut down any portion of the county I reside in. The police then take orders from me. I understand what is happening better than you do son. You have been indoctrinated into being a person that makes an excuse for some mindless coward to risk someones life for nothing.

Your papers please...

[edit on 18-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

I do major in Criminal Justice and Clinical Forensics. I dont bow down to anyone but I know better than to resist arrest and disobey orders from a cop. If I havent done anything then why wouldnt I comply and have the whole mess cleared up with no harm done to anyone other than its an inconvenience for myself. Id rather have an inconvenience than make a scene and probably get hurt in some manner because I've got too much pride to just ride out the storm and come out unscathed. As far as crazy # happening in this country, thats your opinion man.

You may very well understand the innerworkings of police operations more than myself, but please dont call me son. I'm not making excuses, I've developed an opinion based on info provided to me, and I certainly dont think the officers are mindless. I think they acted as they saw fit and went a bit too far with a deserved tasering. Maybe they need some more training and if the independent investigation goes down as someone posted earlier, and they find the officers acted incorrectly then they should be punished, but util then they are innocent no?

Originally posted by ludaChris
[...] but util then they are innocent no?

Atleast thats one thing we can agree on Ludachris. That goes for both the student and the cops.

Peace

g

The liberals in this thread are comical.

Here is the bottomline. The cops asked him to leave and he didn't. He resisted physically and verbally. All of this could have been avoided by doing exactly what the police officers asked. I see no brutality whatsoever. What exactly do the liberals expect the officers to do when a person refuses and resists their commands? Also, I like the overacting by the punk kid.

Originally posted by Mystery_Lady

Would society be like V for Vendetta, or worse? Would they force everyone to work? What about homeless? Exactly what do they have planned, and what are you being trained for?

Are they going to corral certain citizens for experiments? Would there be any place safe to run to, or is every dangerous.

I have said too much on an open forum.

The American citizen has been in the way of the big corporations for too long. They will defang us and lock us down as soon as enough infrastructures go in place in China. When the American buying power and influence are no longer an issue I am pretty sure we will be attacked by false flag terror and locked down. Law enforcement and fire dept. are being geared up for something; the tools are going in place. If anyone stands up to them, they did OKC in advance so they can call anyone of the "new American revolution" a domestic terrorist. All bases have been covered.

If our country had unity still we could keep it from happening. We have been divided into left vs. right and have no power to do anything effective.

If our government was for the people and not the corporations, they would make it clear to us while we still have the buying power, to stop buying foreign goods and buy only American made products, no matter what the sacrifice, no TV, no cell phone, etc. Our jobs would come back, they either come back or fold. We wait much longer, and they wont care what we buy or don’t buy. They will have plenty of Asian consumers.

We can stop the downfall of this great nation, if we only had leadership...



The leaders have been bought. Anyone that has not understands the message of the Kennedy's (JFK, Teddy, RFK, JFK jr.) either comply or die, it sure changed Reagans outlook when he thought he could be a cowboy and change anything...

[edit on 18-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Couple points.....

Why the hek' do the security have "Tazzers" ??????
and thank god' they don't have guns' geeeesh......

Those security guy's so BIG .....let's see em go to the
athletics' department see how tuff' they are.

Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven

Just found this article.

Death by Taser: The Killer Alternative to Guns

Long touted as a safer alternative to handguns for law enforcement, tasers are potentially deadly weapons that have a growing history of abuse by police and security guards.

Although the company spins it otherwise, Taser-associated deaths are definitely on the rise. In 2001, Amnesty International documented three Taser-associated deaths. The number has steadily increased each year, peaking at 61 in 2005. So far almost 50 deaths have occurred in 2006, for an approximate total of 200 deaths in the last five years.

"We are seeing far too many cases where Tasers are not being used for their intended purposes," says Sheley Secrest, president of NAACP Seattle. "And many of these cases don't end up getting reported or properly investigated because people are so humiliated by the experience.

Former U.S. Marshal Matthew Fogg, a long-time SWAT specialist and vice president of Blacks in Government, says that if stun guns are going to be used by law enforcement, training on their use should be extensive, and that the weapons should also be placed high up on what police officers call the "use-of-force continuum."

Fogg isn't alone in calling for such measures. In October 2005, the Police Executive Research Forum, an influential police research and advocacy group, recommended that law enforcement only be allowed to use Tasers on people aggressively resisting arrest. The organization also recommended that law enforcement officers needed to step back and evaluate the condition of suspects after they had been shocked once.

Fogg, who also serves on the board of Amnesty International USA, says that too many members of law enforcement seem to be using them as compliance mechanisms. "It's something along the lines of, 'If I don't like you, I can torture you,' " he says.

I think this last quote is stating the exact way that the taser was misused on the student, tasers should only be used against an abbressive person and not as a "compliance mechanism."


[edit on 19/11/06 by Keyhole]

Mr. Tabatabainejad was not using his head. He could have asked the cops for their names and badge numbers, started taking notes, dropped a few names like some of his instructors, demanded a phone call (like to campus security to talk to the officer in charge, or to the campus paper...), and so forth.

Intimidation begs a reaction, and when the reaction is unexpected then the agressor needs to fall back and plan. Looking closely at motivations does exactly that.

Question authority! Whatever happened to questioning authority? It is not a liberal agenda to question authority, it is common sense! Whenever I am pulled over in a traffic issue, I am always polite to painful degrees and I am looking for a name badge or badge number. When it doesn't add up I begin to ask questions, like "if you want me to get into your car how do I know you are a real police officer?" Or "can you call for backup to explain to me why your uniform is an off shade of blue I have never seen before?""Why are your tags expired?" Questions, questions.

In Mr. Tabatabainejad's case for example, "Did you receive a complaint about me being on the premises? Who called? Are you afraid I am carrying a bomb because I have dark skin and am of ethnic descent? How do you know for sure one hasn't been already planted by me in the library? Are your precautions adequate?" Then he could have called the news channel for some real lively action. Tee-hee

Originally posted by ludaChris
I'm not making excuses, I've developed an opinion based on info provided to me, and I certainly dont think the officers are mindless. I think they acted as they saw fit and went a bit too far with a deserved tasering. Maybe they need some more training and if the independent investigation goes down as someone posted earlier, and they find the officers acted incorrectly then they should be punished, but util then they are innocent no?

I do not think the taser was meant to be used as a tool for officers to get
somebody to comply with what they want somebody to do when the only order given to the student was to "STAND UP" and the subject was not acting physically aggressive or physically threatening towards the officers, himself, or anybody else. If the order that wasn't being followed was something like "DROP THE KNIFE", and the subject did not comply, then by all means I would say the taser would be appropriate.

Tasers can become lethal weapons and should be used with due care as to when and why it is being used. Tasers should be used as a tool only when the subject is showing aggression to himself or others. This was not the case in this incident, it would have been a terrible for the student and for the officers if the student had died due to being tased for this offense.

I do think the student used VERY poor judgment and should just have complied with the officers requests and orders though.

I think EXTREMELY poor judgment was used by the officers using the taser in this incident.


[edit on 19/11/06 by Keyhole]

This jerk is a smart mouthed punk.He was looking for trouble and he got his wish.

Originally posted by rdang
This jerk is a smart mouthed punk.He was looking for trouble and he got his wish.

My father was in the rock. Korean war.

You can't see much from the video. It appears that, as another poster stated, the police used their taser as an obedience tool instead of what it's supposed to be used for; bringing someone SAFELY into custody. A person doesn't HAVE to do anything they don't want to do... the most the Police are allowed to do is physically place that person in a squad-car and take him to jail. They are NOT allowed to use pain as a means of compliance when the suspect is in no way being combative or hostile.

Call me crazy but I just think it's a tad bit much that the police are allowed to use electricity as a weapon.

Lonegunman, how was that related to this topic at all?

Originally posted by Keyhole
I do not think the taser was meant to be used as a tool for officers to get
somebody to comply with what they want somebody to do when the only order given to the student was to "STAND UP" and the subject was not acting physically aggressive or physically threatening towards the officers, himself, or anybody else. If the order that wasn't being followed was something like "DROP THE KNIFE", and the subject did not comply, then by all means I would say the taser would be appropriate.

Tasers can become lethal weapons and should be used with due care as to when and why it is being used. Tasers should be used as a tool only when the subject is showing aggression to himself or others. This was not the case in this incident, it would have been a terrible for the student and for the officers if the student had died due to being tased for this offense.

I do think the student used VERY poor judgment and should just have complied with the officers requests and orders though.

I think EXTREMELY poor judgment was used by the officers using the taser in this incident.
[edit on 19/11/06 by Keyhole]

I'm not saying that tasers should be used to make people comply with orders, but I am saying they should be used to maintain the peace. And that is what I feel the officers felt they were doing. This could have easily been a much hairier situation if they let this man continue his rant and bring other students into the struggle. I think thats what they had in mind when administering the taser. Put yourself in the officers shoes, to them, this could have been much worse. Though as I've said earlier, six times was too much, unless it is found in the investigation that it was necessary, which I doubt they will. I dont think it poor judgement, but more of a heat of the moment type of thing.

Question for the right wingers posting here.

What would everyones reaction to this have been had this video been of a white person of American origion - maybe kid in a Tehran University?

I theorise that the Answer would be as follows

You would be calling the guards animals and suggesting that it would be worth nuking the country to stop such a blatant violation of someones human rights.