UCLA Police Taser Student For Not Showing ID W/Video

The UCLA PD site has been updated to include their policy for Taser use.

UCPD Taser Policy

The link opens a PDF. It defines Compliance and offers insight into the policy of taser usage.

See also PoliceONe - Non-lethal force

And the LAPD Manual available online LAPD Manual

Under Volume 1 - POLICY
Heading: LAW ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS - 1/500

See: 573. Use of Non-lethal Control Devices.

548. Department Response to Impending Riot.

552. Police Action on School Campuses.

512. Alternatives to Physical Arrest, Booking, or Continued Detention.** for the other side - pay special attention to this one as I think it makes it very clear that the police did NOT do all they could have done to solve the problem...**

508. Police Action Based on Legal Justification.

UCLA Policies and Reports

_________________________________________________________
On the other side of the fence:


HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF
NEVADA, HUMBOLDT COUNTY, et al.

Petitioner Hiibel was arrested and convicted in a Nevada court for refusing to identify himself to a police officer during an investigative stop involving a reported assault. Nevada’s “stop and identify” statute requires a person detained by an officer under suspicious circumstances to identify himself. The state intermediate appellate court affirmed, rejecting Hiibel’s argument that the state law’s application to his case violated the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. The Nevada Supreme Court affirmed.

Held: Petitioner’s conviction does not violate his Fourth Amendment rights or the Fifth Amendment’s prohibition on self-incrimination. Pp. 3—13.

Source: Hiibel vs Sixth Judicial Dist.
(NOTE* Hiibel Lost his case. BUT read through it for more information and search the LA Courts for similar cases, notations, amendments and definitions)

Amnesty International - Excessive Force

More than 5,000 US law enforcement agencies are currently deploying tasers, dart-firing electro-shock weapons designed to cause instant incapacitation by delivering a 50,000 volt shock. Tasers are hand-held electronic stun guns which fire two barbed darts up to a distance of 21 feet, which remain attached to the gun by wires. The fish-hook like darts are designed to penetrate up to two inches of the target’s clothing or skin and deliver a high-voltage, low amperage, electro-shock along insulated copper wires. Although they were first introduced in the 1970s, the take-up rate for tasers has increased enormously in recent years, with the marketing of powerful "new generation" models such as the M26 Advanced Taser and the Taser X26. Both fire darts which strike the subject from a distance or, as in James Borden’s case, can be applied directly to the skin as a stun gun.

And from Law Enforcement Liability Reporter:

Assault and Battery - Stun Guns and Tasers


Go forth and edumacate . There's more...but you'll have to find it yourself.

I can see both sides here...that's why I post information for both sides of the debate.

God, Ala, The Liberals and the Dems can go get their own damn thread...read a bit on both sides and then let's get back to the real facts and issues.

It WAS an great debate before it was clouded and convoluted by the infiltration of religion and political side taking, belittling and cyclical rhetoric. Stop trying to stifle the opposing ideas to your own...instead listen and respond with maturity. Neener neeners are really getting irritating.

If I've overstepped my bounds I'm sure I'll get a U2U from a MOD as such. It's a very interesting case for BOTH sides and I refuse to believe that it's black and white as many have demanded it is. I've been doing a lot of reading on it and have taken the time to post what I find. Maybe more could do the same and we can increase the knowledge base and information trade off better than if we just sit here and call each other out.

Sorry...my little rant.



[edit on 11/18/2006 by justgeneric]

[edit on 11/18/2006 by justgeneric]

Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas

How would you feel if you were pulled over while driving to be told you had commited no infraction, no probable cause for detainment existed but they just wanted to check your ID and make sure you were legally licensed? I know I would be asking

This happens quite a lot actually. Usually they are called road blocks or check points. They claim they are looking for drunk drivers but will ask to see your license and look for any other violations you or your car seem to be in violation of. Usually it doesn't seem too bad if you act calm and the police don't smell any alcohol. We've become conditioned to accept these. They say it's for our safety of course. I don't really like it myself.

I've been pulled over while driving as well and told of two common occurrences where I've been told its ok for the police to do so. If you step on the gas too fast when a light turns green or if you jerk your steering wheel for any reason (doesn't matter if someone almost hit you), the police can claim you were driving erratic. Apparently it's their standard procedure.

If you think the US isn't becoming a police state and conditioning has already begun, hopefully a few more people will start to think and complain about an ID being required in so many places we go. Someone wanted to keep out the homeless by using an ID system. Apparently ID systems are accepted without too many complaints almost everywhere now.

Well I don't know how the case will end but I do believe students will make sure they have their ID on them at the library now. Unless they enjoy getting zapped a few times.



[edit on 18-11-2006 by orionthehunter]

Well if I read the UCLA Taser Policy correctly, it looks like the police followed most of it. I do question four things that the policy says to consider when using a taser:

1) if the individual is handcuffed (it's not forbidden but is a consideration)
2) the nature of the offense
3) drive stun: to eliminate physical resistance from an arrestee in accomplishing an arrest or physical search
4)When practical, prior to firing the Taser the officer discharging the Taser should: Announce that the Taser is being deployed and provide the suspect with a reasonable opportunity to comply

1) yep he was handcuffed...I would of probably just dragged him out with three officers.
2) not having your ID is not a valid use of a taser...resisting arrest ups the anty
3) the video starts too late, was he under "arrest" and being escorted out or just being told to leave?
4) I don't hear on the video an announcement that the taser is going to be used. Of course there is a chance this was said before the video starts, but I think a warning still should of been repeated right before the "drive stun" was used.

I think in court, the cops will have a hard time explaining why they didn't say this since there were three of them and just him. Plus his acting "limp" gave plenty of time to announce the taser may be used. The second and third times he was tasered he DID have the warning that a taser would be used and he should of stood up.

I think the man (he's 23 years old not 18!), was being a jerk. He was told to leave because it was after 11pm and he didn't have his ID. He chose to be a smart ass and not leave until the cops showed up. Then the cops, IMO, used more force than was necessary to resolve the situation. Using the taser repeatedly escalated the situation.

"Back up or your going to get tasered too"...not the best line to use. I can tell that cop is stressed out and needs to command the situation but he needed to bring the level of conflict with the students down. Saying this could of incited more people.







[edit on 18/11/06 by Atomic]

I agree...the video will undoubtedly see the officers getting at "least" a reprimand and possibly scheduled for some re-training on policy and procedure as well as some additional resolution training.

I'm trying to find policies for the management of protesters (because they are extremely vocal and use the "limp" or passive resistance technique) I think the lawyer for the accused will likely be drawing from those policies and citing cases of similar nature involving a solitary protester - just a line of thought I have...not saying this is what will happen)

Will they be successfully sued by the student? No I really don't think they will. They will be disciplined internally, this discipline will be made public in short form and that will it.


The rules and regulations of the UCLA facilities are public and upon registering at the university you are given a guidebook and assortment of maps etc...the policies are there in print. This is standard practice on any campus.

It is the student's obligation only to read them and understand them. Not to agree with them.

The ID card issue stems from increased crime as I pointed to in a link on page 8 I think or somewhere like that (too tired to dig it up) you can find it also on the UCLA PD website (see above post of mine for the site).

Originally posted by justgeneric

The rules and regulations of the UCLA facilities are public and upon registering at the university you are given a guidebook and assortment of maps etc...the policies are there in print. This is standard practice on any campus.

It is the student's obligation only to read them and understand them. Not to agree with them.

Justgeneric
I understand the need for security and laws to be upheld, but do we want such examples of justice inflicted on our kids or young adults over the security of books that have more then likely been donated or heavily discounted? In your opinion, had this young man been a threat or a bomber intent on taking the lives of others do you feel that the actions these guards took contained the situation and placed the kids in a safe environment or did they create exactly the opposite evironment?
I think had this man been dangerous, he would have been infuriated enough to take everyone in the immediate area along with his agressive little peace officers.


4 Officers each grabbing a limb would have accomplished a lot more and gotten him out even faster. Bouncers in nightclubs employ this method with little effort, less crowd-stopping attention,less violence and less theatrics on the part of the offender. Shows over folks! Back to dancin!

Pie

America's supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave... what a joke. To judge by the replies, which have been fascinating, most of you don't want to live in the land of the free. You'd rather live in a police state. Well, congratulations... and enjoy.

Hi PieMan...I am not sure you read all of the thread. I stated my opinion on both sides very clearly quite a few pages back.

Thanks for the query though

I am of the mind that the police acted poorly. They did not attempt other options for rectifying the situation. They definitely in my opinion overstepped their bounds.

I am also of the mind that the student should have simply left when asked to do so, and that his escalation of the situation through his behavior cannot be ignored.

I offered info for both sides as it is both sides I see.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

This dumb kid should have been beaten into submission like any other dumb thug, tazers are there to protect officers.

.. .have some .. ohh say..

RESPECT

When I get pulled over for a speeding ticket I am "Yes sir, of course sir, here you go sir, have a nice night officer" not "get off me!"

[edit on 11/16/2006 by Rockpuck]

Ya know, I would be far more inclined to respect police if they respected ME. Several years ago, a cop stopped me for a broken rear taillight, which I didn't realize was broken. I was, as always with cops, polite and courteous. He had me get out of the car, made me walk a line, shone the flashlight directly into my eyes for a long time and then tried to say I was drunk driving. Well, I had had exactly one glass of wine, about an hour before getting into the car. So, instead of giving me a ticket for a broken light, he tells me I shouldn't be drunk driving, so instead of giving me a DUI he said, he would just park my car where it was (which happened to be a private drive way, my car blocked it so they couldn't get out), and give me a ride to the town nearest my home (12 miles away from the town). He took me to the nearest town, told me to get out and now I was on my own. This by now, was 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday nite, I wasn't dressed at all for the cold and I didn't have any phone numbers of friends with me or even ten cents to make a phone call. I told him that, but he still insisted he couldn't take me all the way home, it was "too far". So I got out of the car, called the only 2 numbers I could remember, but of course they were fast asleep and didn't hear the phone. So I started walking the 12 miles home, mind you, this is on a lonely country road where anything could have happened to me. Fortunately, some very nice young men came by and gave me a ride home.

This cop needlessly endangered my life, treated me like a common criminal and traumatized me. Guess I was lucky I didn't get tasered, too. So much for respecting the cops, IMO. No, cops are definitely NOT always the good guys that many want to believe they are. Some of them are just plain chauvinistic, misogynist, stupid, power-hungry thugs. That's not the first time I havae been treated like trash by a cop, even though I'm always polite. But you can bet that if I'd had a guy with me, the cops would have been to intimidated to treat me like that; but I was a middle-aged woman who was alone and defenseless, there was nothing I could do about my situtation.

So what exactly wass this young man's crime, apart from being a Middle Easterner? He went limp, a standard practice that all protesters use. He may well have been protesting their treatment of him. Whatever the reason, he did nothing to threaten these officers. He never should have been put through the trauma of being tasered. A simple arrest should have been enough, at most. You mean to tell me that several cops can't take down one guy? Then those cops aren't qualified for the job, I mean, don't you have to be in good shape to be a cop?

Tasesring is getting way out of hand and the cops keep acting more and more like the Gestapo. How many incidents have you heard where the cops got completely out of control at a school? I've heard lots of reports like that since 911. People are scared and cops are brainwashed into believing that all Middle Easterners are murderers and scum of the earth.

Whatever happened to "to protect and to serve" as their motto? We pay their salaries, THEY should respect US, they're supposed to protect us.

Originally posted by forestlady

This by now, was 2:00 a.m. on a Saturday nite, I wasn't dressed at all for the cold and I didn't have any phone numbers of friends with me or even ten cents to make a phone call. I told him that, but he still insisted he couldn't take me all the way home, it was "too far". So I got out of the car, called the only 2 numbers I could remember, but of course they were fast asleep and didn't hear the phone. So I started walking the 12 miles home, mind you, this is on a lonely country road where anything could have happened to me. Fortunately, some very nice young men came by and gave me a ride home.

This cop needlessly endangered my life....

My God is there no virtue among thee thugs anymore? Where is the empathy and respect? Where was that mans head at to drop a woman off 12 miles from her home?

I dont know, I want to say so much more but on the otherhand I rely on them for backup on scenes where the public is trying to harm the first responder, they do their job well in that situation.

There are too many young ones out there though, that have become badge heavy thugs. When I am not on duty I wear a jacket that clearly identifies me as a Firefighter/EMS. I was in a starbucks grabbing some joe, my wife was in our vehicle parked so she could see more than I could. I was at the creamer station fixing up my cup of goodness when the local PD walked in. This was not my town so we never worked together, this guy I could feel him sizing me up from behind, but on my back is a huge maltese cross with crossed axes and it says "___Fire Dept." I thought this guy actls like he is going to take me down.

So I turned to him nodded and said "hello officer", he looked me up and down and swaggered up tp the counter. It was wierd, he seemed like some kind of nut playing "officer on patrol" I said hows business been tonight trying to strike a conversation, most times an officer will acknowledge who I am and we wink at each other and all that good stuff. This dude rested his hand on his "Sam Brown" and ignored me.

I walked out and got in our mini-van and my wife said "what did you say to that cop? he looked like he was going to arrest you" She had meant when I was getting creamer and had my back to him, I said nothing he is just a creep.

That stuck with me though. He knows if he is in a P.I. accident someone of the brotherhood will risk his/her neck to extricate him from his unit. This dude had something wrong with him though, and I couldnt imagine an instructor letting him get through the accadamy, or passing the psyc. tests.



[edit on 18-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by rich23
America's supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave... what a joke. To judge by the replies, which have been fascinating, most of you don't want to live in the land of the free. You'd rather live in a police state. Well, congratulations... and enjoy.

The police don't run this country, lawsuits do. Which means people that can manipulate the truth in court are our policy setters. If you don't like cops or anything...just sue. Rinse and repeat.

It happened on a University Campus, that's where everything gets thrown off. If it was on the street, I'd say F*CK the POLICE! But who would want to jeopardize their scholarship/grants while being in a Computer Lab on Campus? That's the sticky wicket, where do you draw the line on a College Campus?

[edit on 18-11-2006 by LooseLipsSinkShips]

By the way, while viewing that video a virus was detected on my computer.

Also, what gets me is in the news article a UCLA Sergeant explains that the boy who got tasered was OK because "he walked out of there." Hello McFly! He was lying on the ground until the UCLA cops kept tasering him telling him to stand up or he'll get tased again. It was his only option.

[edit on 18-11-2006 by LooseLipsSinkShips]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Asking for ID is not making an arrest though.
Don't they have to read a person their rights before they can legally touch you to arrest you.
Complete compliance with ANY police directive seems to be what citizens are expected to do these days.
Sounds like the US is turning into a police state after all :shk:

No, you should comply with police for your safety and their own. If you dont play nice, dont expect them to. You do realize that cops are human beings too, and dont take kindly to any kind of force being used against them, just like you or me. This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, a "Police" state or any of the such. This kid was not following orders, refused to provide ID, and by not providing that ID made himself and his presence on campus subject to investigation by police, plain and simple.

Originally posted by rich23
America's supposed to be the land of the free and the home of the brave... what a joke. To judge by the replies, which have been fascinating, most of you don't want to live in the land of the free. You'd rather live in a police state. Well, congratulations... and enjoy.

Rich, just read my above post. Some on here seem to let their own anti-police agenda get in the way of the facts of this investigation. Campus Police are there just for this reason, to make sure everyone on campus belongs there and to keep those that belong there safe. Ever read a police log that are published every week by campus police here in the US, even my small university has the crime problems a small town does, break ins, destruction of property, and a lot of cases of escorting disorderly people who do not attend the university, they must investigate whether people belong htere or not for a reason.

Heres a good place to start, my Universities Police Daily Activity Reports.
DAR's

[edit on 11/18/2006 by ludaChris]

There are also many here on this thread who do not seem to realize that Campus Police are not "Fake" or "Rent-A-Cops." They are sworn officers of the State/town/county or which they patrol or enforce the laws. This needs to be cleared up now and should have been cleared up much earlier in this thread, because some of the responses are downright ingnorant as to the fact that these officers are indeed sworn in and have all the same powers as normal cops or deputies.

Originally posted by ludaChris

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Asking for ID is not making an arrest though.
Don't they have to read a person their rights before they can legally touch you to arrest you.
Complete compliance with ANY police directive seems to be what citizens are expected to do these days.
Sounds like the US is turning into a police state after all :shk:

No, you should comply with police for your safety and their own.

That is ludacris. We are not a country that has to take orders from anyone with a badge, you my friend have been indoctrinated to the totalitarian way of thinking. They have no right to fire a potentialy lethal tasor at you for not getting up. They only need like Pieman so aptly put it, a man on eah limb and escort him out. You dont put a persons life in the line for going limp. If that kid had any kind of electrical misfiring problems in his heart that he may not even be aware of that tazor can either flat line his heart or send him into Ventricular fibrillation and he will start having brain damage within four minutes. Then if an EMS is unable to restart his heart or shock it out of V-Fib he is dead.

For going limp.

In what twisted way of thinking is this ok?

If the police dont have enough balls to escort someone out using non-lethal means then they need to go become a crossing guard.

You ever have someone die while your trying to save them, with a family member vomiting behind a shed? It frickin sucks like you cant imagine.

No ones life should be put in danger for someone going limp. The police have taken an oath to do the job and they know they are at risk. The public didnt.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
No ones life should be put in danger for someone going limp. The police have taken an oath to do the job and they know they are at risk. The public didnt.

This one line sums up the entirety of your line of thinking. So the public are completely ingnorant as to the consequences of resisting arrest. But you also forgot to leave out he was trying to incite other students into joining him with his little fight against "the man." I havent been indoctrinated, I'm simply educated enough to realize that if he had complied with the police it would have all worked out and he would have been probably banned from campus, depending on whether or not he was an actual student there. Oh, yeah, but he never provided ID did he? They had no way of knowing if he actually belonged there or not.



[edit on 11/18/2006 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by ludaChris
This needs to be cleared up now and should have been cleared up much earlier in this thread[...]

It has, several times. If you read all the posts before posting yourself, you might look a little less ignorant.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
If that kid had any kind of electrical misfiring problems in his heart that he may not even be aware of that tazor can either flat line his heart or send him into Ventricular fibrillation and he will start having brain damage within four minutes. Then if an EMS is unable to restart his heart or shock it out of V-Fib he is dead.

For going limp.

In what twisted way of thinking is this ok?

Ad to this that eyewitnesses reported him telling the cops he had a medical condition.

They should be charged with attempted manslaughter (if such a charge exists).

And people continue disputing what is clearly seen on the video. Is this a sign of amazing stubbornness, or just good old evil?

Originally posted by gekko
It has, several times. If you read all the posts before posting yourself, you might look a little less ignorant.

Haha, so tell this to the people who repeatedly call UCLA Campus Police "rent-a-cops." I'm simply reitterating that so people stop using such terms to describe them. If you feel that you should call me ingnorant for reitterating that fact, maybe you just couldnt comprehend my posts.