Slave Descendants Try to Revive Lawsuit

reply to post by 27jd


So I'm O for 2 in conversions? No surprise.

Like a lot of bad things in life, it will have to get worse before it gets better.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


Yeah, I know. White people are the abusers, and none have ever been abused. The color in which light reflects off my skin makes me feel OH SO terrible about things people who happened to reflect the same color long ago as I do now have done, and somehow, some way, I am responsible. Surely, I must have a slave tucked away somewhere, soon as I get home I'll find my slave and set him/her free and apologize immediately. Then, I'll start handing out all the money I earn (yes, imagine that, a white person that works for his money and struggles week to week and was somehow left out of all the riches accumulated from slavery) to random black people I encounter on the street, and apologize for the horrible abuse they've endured because of me. Thank you for showing me the light.

It's a shame things haven't gotten any better for black people since the days of slavery, like you said, guess things have to get worse before they get better. Rest assured, I'm holding my fist in the air for you. Fight the power.



[edit on 10-10-2007 by 27jd]

Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by jfj123

 

jfj123 Why don't you believe EVERYONE should be treated equally?

Because it's phony! It’s disingenuous. It’s opportunism at its nastiest!

Whites only came very late into the "believe in equal rights” philosophy. When by some twist of fate blacks who NEED and DESERVE preferential treatment at the public trough, are getting some, it is suddenly whites who are demanding equal rights. Baloney! Death bed conversions. Jail house religion.

Thoughtful and sincere efforts aimed at undoing the immeasurable harm done - or mitigate it - to generations of a people only because they were not white, is fair, honorable and very late. It’s the only RIGHT tining to do.

It is selfish obfuscation to resist any remedial efforts on the grounds of EQUALITY. A term for which white people have ignored since 1619. And are doing so today. 2007.

Sorry, no medals due for 2 degrees.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by donwhite]

1st, I never asked to be presented a medal for being a responsible adult. I expect everyone to do the same if they want to better themselves.

Again, since you are saying that reperations are reasonable, do you also believe all the other groups that have been horribly treated, should also be compensated?? Of course you must agree with that or you would be a hypocrite and I'm sure you're not a hypocrite.

So how do we compensate all these groups?
Where will this money come from?
Exactly how do you put a price on what a humans life is worth ?
Will how poorly they had been treated increase the value of the compensation?
Since you obviously feel strongly about this, please provide us these answers.
Again, please tell us which groups are worthy of compensation and what groups are not worthy of compensation in your eyes.

Also just to correct you, I ALWAYS believed in equal rights for EVERYONE. I believe EVERYONE should be treated EQUALLY. You may think that my statements are disingenuous but since you don't know me in any way, you have absolutely no right to say that. Frankly, I don't understand why you think people shouldn't be treated equally.

I don't believe that anyone should be treated specially or different based on the amount of melanin in one's skin or for any other reason. I would be shocked if most people here or anywhere believed otherwise.

Originally posted by jfj123
I don't believe that anyone should be treated specially or different based on the amount of melanin in one's skin...

I have to disagree. I think the amount of melanin in ones skin should certainly make a difference in the amount and SPF of sunblock that is recommended for a day at the beach.

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by donwhite

 

Yeah, I know. White people are the abusers, and none have ever been abused. The color in which light reflects off my skin makes me feel OH SO terrible about things people who happened to reflect the same color long ago as I do now have done, and somehow, some way, I am responsible. Surely, I must have a slave tucked away somewhere, soon as I get home I'll find my slave and set him/her free and apologize immediately. Then, I'll start handing out all the money I earn (yes, imagine that, a white person that works for his money and struggles week to week and was somehow left out of all the riches accumulated from slavery) to random black people I encounter on the street, and apologize for the horrible abuse they've endured because of me. Thank you for showing me the light.

It's a shame things haven't gotten any better for black people since the days of slavery, like you said, guess things have to get worse before they get better. Rest assured, I'm holding my fist in the air for you. Fight the power.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by 27jd]

Testify my brotha !!!!!!

Look, I'm so tired of people here clumping all white/caucasion people into "the man" category. So unfortunately, I believe I once again, must make my position clear:
My ancestors did not have ANYTHING to do with slavery.
I have had nothing to do with slavery.
I do not support slavery.
I think slavery was wrong.
And bad.
and wrong.
I believe all people should have equal opportunity regardless of ethnic background, creed, color or gender.
If any one group gets "special" treatment, automatically other groups are discriminated against and that is wrong.
All slaves should be IMMEDIATELY released.
All slave owners should be IMMEDIATELY arrested.
All slaves released as described above must IMMEDIATELY be compensated directly by the above described slaves owner by IMMEDIATELY relinquishing all property to the above mentioned slave.

I hope my position is clear now. Thank you and have a slave free day

reply to post by jfj123


jfj123 Again, since you are saying that reparations are reasonable, do you also believe all the other groups that have been horribly treated, should also be compensated?

There are far too many eligible people to speak seriously of paying damages or reparations to the individual descendants of slaves. I think reparations is used became the statute of limitations has run on damages. Damages are judicial, reparations are legislative.

There were only 120,000 Japanese Americans. There were millions of slaves and today, 13% of our population is said to be African American. About 40 million people. Personal anecdote: One of my former wives was the darkest of the seven children of a lily white mother and father. When the Native Americans got their first casino and big bucks were looming for previously impoverished tribesmen, she asked me to help do her genealogy to show she was part Cherokee. A lot of white people like to claim to be “part” Cherokee. At least in Kentucky. Needless to say, we could not find such proof. She has now gone to the Great Wigwam in the Sky.

Our “gift” of something we did not own has already cost us billions and may run to trillions. I’m thinking of the 1948 “gift” by the Christian dominated United Nations of Arab Palestine to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. Israel.

No, let's add no more groups to our own American blacks. They have served us so well for so long I’d think any thoughtful white person would enjoy a bit of payback for people who have so little. Perhaps we’d take some pride in that. I know I feel good when I give someone a present he or she does not expect.

I think K12 education would be the most valuable thing we could do for them. Our dilemma is this: We can’t just pile money on top of them, but we must let them run their own system. They need a system that will prepare a minority person to make a good life from himself or herself in a segregated society. Let’s quit trying to make them white. Let’s let them be black. But we OWE them billions to aid them in doing that.

Next, we owe them a decent place to live and raise a family. That would do more than all the praying and preaching to restore 2 parent family and households. That would surely also have many desirable side effects. Get all the slum-lords out of black neighborhoods. Banks, churches, and etc. have all at one time or another been offenders. Let’s make it PAYBACK time. For the victims. No Katrina-type slush funds for outsiders like Halliburton to loot.

E M P A T H Y is for the abused.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by jfj123
I believe all people should have equal opportunity regardless of ethnic background, creed, color or gender.

Yup, but I'm looking for the American Aryan College Fund website and I can't seem to find it. That's wierd. Oh yeah, I forgot it doesn't exist. Guess all the highly educated, rich white kids in trailer parks across the country will have to just continue to eat from the silver spoons born in their mouths, after all they're white so that means they automatically have every opportunity to be successful in life, they don't need to worry about it. Their whiteness will carry them through in comfort, without any struggle whatsoever.

But let's not dwell too much on those lucky bastards, let's get back to feeling sorry for the ONLY race that suffers in this country, and like donwhite said, it'll only get worse for them before it gets better. Pretty soon things will get SO bad that they some may even be forced by the white man to accept millions of dollars and own 12 cars that each cost more than my house, for spewing crappy, ignorant poetry over a computer generated beat. Or worse yet, be forced to accept millions of dollars to play a game, we can only hope things don't get so bad.

Originally posted by donwhite
reply to post by jfj123

 

jfj123 Again, since you are saying that reparations are reasonable, do you also believe all the other groups that have been horribly treated, should also be compensated?

There are far too many eligible people to speak seriously of paying damages or reparations to the individual descendants of slaves. I think reparations is used became the statute of limitations has run on damages. Damages are judicial, reparations are legislative.

There were only 120,000 Japanese Americans. There were millions of slaves and today, 13% of our population is said to be African American. About 40 million people. Personal anecdote: One of my former wives was the darkest of the seven children of a lily white mother and father. When the Native Americans got their first casino and big bucks were looming for previously impoverished tribesmen, she asked me to help do her genealogy to show she was part Cherokee. A lot of white people like to claim to be “part” Cherokee. At least in Kentucky. Needless to say, we could not find such proof. She has now gone to the Great Wigwam in the Sky.

Our “gift” of something we did not own has already cost us billions and may run to trillions. I’m thinking of the 1948 “gift” by the Christian dominated United Nations of Arab Palestine to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. Israel.

No, let's add no more groups to our own American blacks. They have served us so well for so long I’d think any thoughtful white person would enjoy a bit of payback for people who have so little. Perhaps we’d take some pride in that. I know I feel good when I give someone a present he or she does not expect.

I think K12 education would be the most valuable thing we could do for them. Our dilemma is this: We can’t just pile money on top of them, but we must let them run their own system. They need a system that will prepare a minority person to make a good life from himself or herself in a segregated society. Let’s quit trying to make them white. Let’s let them be black. But we OWE them billions to aid them in doing that.

Next, we owe them a decent place to live and raise a family. That would do more than all the praying and preaching to restore 2 parent family and households. That would surely also have many desirable side effects. Get all the slum-lords out of black neighborhoods. Banks, churches, and etc. have all at one time or another been offenders. Let’s make it PAYBACK time. For the victims. No Katrina-type slush funds for outsiders like Halliburton to loot.

E M P A T H Y is for the abused.

[edit on 10/10/2007 by donwhite]

Your implication is that only black people in america are poor. Instead of creating a black nation as you have described, why don't we help ALL poor people? Why is a poor black person different from a poor white, indian, native american, asian, etc. in your eyes?

You are making it sound as if only black people get crappy public education and live in crappy locations? I don't think you are very familiar with the United States. If you were, you wouldn't be making these statements. What you are advocating is discrimination against many groups.

Trying to bring all groups to equal ground means making sure all groups get treated equally. PERIOD. When you give any group EXTRA, you are discriminating against the groups that you are not giving the EXTRA to.

Originally posted by donwhite
A lot of white people like to claim to be “part” Cherokee. At least in Kentucky.

Here in the west, it's Blackfoot. And yeah, it's BS. Maybe they say that cuz people like you make them feel guilty for things they had nothing to do with so they feel the need to shield themselves the best they can, but you won't catch me doing that. Nope.

No, let's add no more groups to our own American blacks. They have served us so well for so long I’d think any thoughtful white person would enjoy a bit of payback for people who have so little.

You own blacks??? Wow. And they've served you well? Okay, I get it, you feel guilty cuz you're a slave owner, as you should. That's terrible man.

But we OWE them billions to aid them in doing that.

Leave the "we" out of it. If you feel you owe somebody, then feel free to pay up. But don't drag the rest of us into your debts.

Next, we owe them a decent place to live and raise a family.

It's hard enough for most of us to get that for OURSELVES. Again, if you're a rich slave owner, then you need to do whatever makes you feel better.

E M P A T H Y is for the abused.

R I D I C U L E is for the absurd.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by 27jd]

reply to post by 27jd


27jd Yeah. The color in which light reflects off my skin makes me feel OH SO terrible about things people who happened to reflect the same color long ago as I do now have done, and somehow, some way, I am responsible.

No. Don’t be absurd. You and I are the BENEFICIARIES.

Our more distant ancestors were the perpetrators. Our more recent ancestors were the enablers. White people alive and well today are beneficiaries of the abuses heaped upon another group, due only the color of their skin. I’m not a religious person but even I see this situation calls for penance. Penance must be equivalent or it’s not penance.

Talk is cheap. Whites are too good at cheap talk. There is a web site listing 300 + treaties made between whites and Native Americans. EVERY treaty was broken. Not 1 treaty that we made with Indians did we keep. Who speaks with forked tongue?

One example still in court: The Oneida Indians of upstate NY were given 6 million acres in 1794 for their inestimable assistance in our Revolutionary War. By 1930, they had but 30 acres. NY had taken their land and auctioned it off. And etc.

What do you do? Play like it didn’t happen? Or when you learn of an injustice in the past, do you immediately work to correct it? What I call “doing the right thing.” Or just engage in endless palaver?

Whites tried hard to do a genocide on the Indians but somehow they have survived. Estimated to have numbered between 3 and 15 million in 1491, the US Census for 1900 showed them to be just under 300,000. What's new?

[edit on 10/10/2007 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite
White people alive and well today are beneficiaries of the abuses heaped upon another group, due only the color of their skin.

Really? How, exactly do I benefit from slavery? Please enlighten me, tell me what I have gained from slavery.

I’m not a religious person but even I see this situation calls for penance. Penance must equivalent or it’s not penance.

I'm not either, and I couldn't give a crap about penance. I've done NOTHING wrong. I was born, I'm SO SO SO sorry about that.

Talk is cheap. Whites are too good at cheap talk. There is a web site listing 300 + treaties made between whites and Native Americans. EVERY treaty was broken. Not 1 treaty that we made with Indians did we keep. Who speaks with forked tongue?

Wow. Now I've broken treaties with Native Americans?? I must be doing all this bad crap on Ambien or something, cuz I don't remember ANY of it. My talk is NOT cheap, well, it's free, but I'm pretty sure I don't break treaties with Native Americans.

What do you do? Play like it didn’t happen? Or when you learn of an injustice in the past, to you immediately work to correct it? What I call “doing the right thing.”

Play like what didn't happen? The past? There's PLENTY of shameful past for EVERY race to dwell on if they wish, and it can't be corrected without a time machine. Go for it if you have one. Other than that, I am doing the right thing, by not owning slaves. Never have, never will. I'm all good, my conscience is clean as a whistle.

[edit on 10-10-2007 by 27jd]

Our more distant ancestors were the perpetrators. Our more recent ancestors were the enablers. White people alive and well today are beneficiaries of the abuses heaped upon another group, due only the color of their skin. I’m not a religious person but even I see this situation calls for penance. Penance must be equivalent or it’s not penance.

I am white. My ancestors came from hungary, poland, whales. None of my ancestors had anything to do with slavery. There are a lot of white people just like me.

Now what if you grandfather committed murder? Should you be held accountable for his actions?

What you are advocating is charging us with our ancestors crimes. I have 3 words for you
OPENING PANDORAS BOX

As I said before, I have no beef with Black Americans, But would you rather your ansestors suffer so you can live a free life in America....Or would you rather slavery never happend and you be stuck in Africa right now dead or dying?Because if the white man didnt bring over the slaves back then alot of black people wouldnt be here in America today

reply to post by tac109


tac109 As I said before, I have no beef with Black Americans, But would you rather your ancestors suffer so you can live a free life in America . .

Like maybe a Jew can find some positive value in the Holocaust? That is a “don’t go there” proposition.

tac109 ....Or would you rather slavery never happened and you be stuck in Africa right now dead or dying? Because if the white man didn’t bring over the slaves back then a lot of black people wouldn’t be here in America today.

Pollyanna? Pollyanna tells the story of Pollyanna Whittier, a young girl who goes to live with her wealthy Aunt Polly after her father's death. Pollyanna's philosophy of life centers on what she calls "The Glad Game": she always tries to find something to be glad about in every situation, and to always do without delay whatever she thinks is right. With this philosophy, and her own sunny personality, she brings so much gladness to her aunt's dispirited New England town that she transforms it into a pleasant, healthy place to live. Wikipedia.

The issue of reparations remains unanswered.

Originally posted by donwhite
Like maybe a Jew can find some positive value in the Holocaust? That is a “don’t go there” proposition.

No, it isn't. There are quite a few Jews that can find LOTS of positive value in the holocaust. The ones who run the country they were given because of it, the ones who have SO much influence over the largest superpower on the planet currently because of it. The ones who use it as a card to justify whatever because of it. I'll go there, since there is clearly a benefit for many Jews because of the holocaust. Look up how many farmers Russia exterminated (over 14 million) because they didn't want to give up land and homes to the communist government, look up how many people in China were exterminated by the Japanese, and on the flip side how many communist China has murdered for various reasons. There have been MANY holocausts, but the Jews own the patent.

The issue of reparations remains unanswered.

Well, I gave MY answer, it just wasn't the one you wanted to hear.

reply to post by 27jd


27jd Look up how many farmers Russia exterminated (over 14 million) because they didn't want to give up land and homes to the communist government, look up how many people in China were exterminated by the Japanese, and on the flip side how many Communist China has murdered for various reasons. There have been MANY holocausts, but the Jews own the patent.

OK, Mr 27jd, you are correct in your recitation. You could have added the Armenian massacre by Turks in the 1920s which is in today’s news. Or Rwanda. Zimbabwe. Uganda. Sudan. And etc and etc. I’m not Jewish but I do think that one is special and deserves to be set apart from the other “mass extinctions.” Aside: The US “admits” to killing 700,000 non combatants in Vietnam. The Vietnamese claim we killed 3,000,000. End.

Germany was one of Europe’s leading countries. Humph! Social security, unemployment insurance, universal health care and worker’s compensation were all invented by Bismark in Prussia in the last third of the 19th century. An advanced nation. Famous for learning, for science, for music and for the world’s greatest beer! So what made otherwise good people do bad things?

Christianity, to answer my own question. A 1000 years of homilies in which Jews were denounced as “Christ Killers.” Not Jerusalem Jews. Not ancient Jews. But just JEWS. All Jews. Forever Jews. The pay-off was good Christian Germans operating Auschwitz during the week and attending church on Sunday and etc. German, French and Polish policemen rounding up law abiding Jews. Train personnel loading, hauling and unloading them at the death camps. The privately owned railroads were paid by the mile for hauling Jews to die so we know how many, from where and when. We know how much female hair was cut and shipped from each camp. The Germans kept meticulous records. Well, you know all that. That’s why otherwise good people do bad things.

Making revolutions is like making sausage. It is not easy to watch. If you seize a person’s property illegally and without compensation, if he stays alive his single vision is how to recoup his property. When the Soviets decided to socialize agriculture, the rich Kulaks who owned most of the valuable land, had to go. When the PRC abolished the private ownership of farms, every person owning one hectare (2.5 acres) or more was executed summarily. By the bye, Cuba let the wealthy class exit Cuba where they fled to Miami and like Israel, are the tail that wags the dog. Well, so they think. Actually I’m pretty sure the dog still wags his own tail.

OK, so are you now in favor of the reparations suit proceeding? Do they get a day in court?

"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
by Richard John Neuhaus

[edit on 10/11/2007 by donwhite]

So how do we know who is an ancestor of a slave? Is it skin color alone? I assume it would need to be since no one has the world "slave descendant" tattooed on their forehead.

Originally posted by cmaracing
Have any of you ever been to Africa?

Lived there for nearly 2 years. My observations of the people there vs. the "black" people here in the U.S. causes me to question the number of people in the U.S. who are pure African. If you're half black and half white, do you pay money to yourself to make up for your ancestor's past? This whole discussion is beyond ridiculous. A free black man in the North may have owned part of a slave company in the South. It's impossible for us to determine who pays, who gets paid, and how much.

[edit on 11-10-2007 by dbates]

Originally posted by donwhite
OK, so are you now in favor of the reparations suit proceeding? Do they get a day in court?

Well, no. I'm not. I say again, if we had a time machine, then yes. We could go back and seize the property and wealth of the slave owners, and divide it amongst the slaves. I'd be all for that. But I cannot seem to be clear enough that none of it has any place in this day and age. I struggle to live week to week the same as any other non-elite member of our society. I was given NO more opportunity than a black man, in fact less, and you failed to provide me with even one example of how I am a beneficiary of slavery.

Anyway, I was at an orientation class for a job I worked at some years ago, and there were many different ethnic and age groups there, and the teacher began talking about discrimination laws. The teacher asked the class to point out who in the room had absolutely NO legal protection against discrimination. The class looked around, a few people made guesses that were incorrect, a few said nobody was exempt from being protected against discrimination. Everybody was wrong, the teacher looked at me and my friend, the only two young white males in the room and said it was us. If I were to apply for a job and a black employer told me he wouldn't hire me cuz I'm white, I'd have NO recourse whatsoever. Everybody else, black, brown, purple, female, the elderly, etc. were protected by law against being discriminated against. We have no college funds, no legal protection, no required number of white guys to work at a job, nada. I cannot feel sorry for black people today, there is no reason. They have MORE opportunity in America today then I do.

Originally posted by dbates
My observations of the people there vs. the "black" people here in the U.S. causes me to question the number of people in the U.S. who are pure Africian.

I've noticed that as well, there was a large influx of Africans in my neighborhood and they look NOTHING like the black people here. Way darker, thinner, and facial and skull features are much different.

Originally posted by Abstract_P
Sir, you need to take some courses in African History. Before the Europeans arrived to plunder the resources of Mother Africa, my ancestors were sitting in the Great Universities of Timbuktu and several other great African nations.

Aside from Egypt, most African cultures did not have an alphabet or a written language until they were colonized by the Europeans or the Arabs. Do some research on Timbuktu and you'll find that the oldest manuscripts were all Arabic, or an Arabic offshoot.