'Lost:' Season Three Discussion...

Ben already said that Locke had a communion with the Island, and maybe know he has met Jacob the Island will work faster.

I get the feeling that Ben is scared of Locke, of what he represents and what he will do to his position among the Others.
Now we know Ben wasn't born with Them, and isn't one of Them really, we can see how precarious his situation is among the Others. Locke seems to be more like them, he doesn't like technology, he prefers the way of life the Others would have had before DHARMA arrived and maybe they relate with that.

Just a thought.

And what is going on with the Tailies? Why are they so happy with the Others? What's been done to them (if anything?) That's what I want to know next. Howsabout a Cindy-centric episode?

[edit on 12/5/07 by JackofBlades]

Originally posted by JackofBlades

I get the feeling that Ben is scared of Locke, of what he represents and what he will do to his position among the Others.

Locke cannot kill, Ben has no problem slaughtering those who trusted him, including his own father.

A basic good vs.evil conflict for the season cliff hanger. Locke will want to help Jacob and keep the losties safe while Ben will try to destroy everyone rather than lose his grip on power.

I'm guessing of course, but thats how I see it playing out.

Ben/Locke.....good/evil......and no one will know who wins until February of 2008.

I hope its more surprising than that though.

SPOILERS!!!!! (kind of)


Okay, this is some stuff from the Official Podcast. It doesn't tell us anything explicit (like the fact that Jacob isn't as powerful as Chuck Norris) but it hints at stuff, and confirms things we've theorised... SO YE BE WARNED!


Firstly, remember what I sad about Ben seeing Locke as a threat to his power?

Carlton Cuse: Ben took Locke out to see Jacob as sort of a Litmus test; he wanted to find out if, in fact, John Locke really was special. And if John Locke could see or hear Jacob that would indicate that Locke was special. So when Locke did hear Jacob, that really freaked Ben out; that was a threat to Ben and his primacy. So he led him over to the pit and he shot him because he doesn’t want his leadership of The Others challenged by John Locke.

And this part is PRETTY interesting too...

Damon Lindelof: Alrighty, “Walt’s comic book and Jacob,” by retinalscan, 156 posts in the last 90 days. Carlton, “In Walt’s comic book, which was Flash and the Green Lantern, and I know you’re not a huge comic book aficionado, but fortunately for both of us retinalscan breaks down the plot for us here. The Super Heroes capture an alien with powers. They think he is a threat, but he is not. The alien remains imprisoned for fifteen years, during which he contracts cancer from the radiation of the experiments. If I were that alien, I would say, ‘Help me.’ Is Jacob an alien or some type of nonhuman intelligence that is being held and used for human purposes?” And do not dodge, my friend!

Carlton Cuse: Wow.

Damon Lindelof: Do not!

Carlton Cuse: I have to dodge. I mean, if I don’t dodge, you know, party’s over. I mean…

Damon Lindelof: So you’re saying he could be an alien?

Carlton Cuse: Well, no, he’s not an alien.

Damon Lindelof: Well there you go. That’s a good answer.

Carlton Cuse: Yeah, but the rest of it I’m dodging.

I don't know how serious they were being, but it sounds quite perplexing, right?

That's about all the interesting stuff that was on there, the rest is them just joking around, but you can read the rest here

here is what i do when i am bored:

A while back, I became somewhat of a lawyer for Benjamin Linus. I defended his claim that he was born on Lost Island and I created a crude life-story for him. Even though ‘The Man Behind The Curtain’ has destroyed Ben’s claim that he was born on the island, we can now go further into examining the history of himself, the history of the island and delve slightly into Jacob.

As young Ben faces problems with a father who cares little for him and blames him for his wife’s death, he comes to the decision of death by suicide. Before Ben can run into the sonar, though, he sees his mother and hears a series of whispers. His mother tells him that it isn’t his time to die. Later, Ben hears additional whispers and sees a young Richard Alpert (who appears the same age as he is in present time) who is fascinated with the fact that Ben experienced a vision of his own mother who is supposed to be dead. Alpert and his people, the natives of Lost Island, accept Ben as one of their own and work together to purge the members of the DHARMA Initiative.

We don’t exactly know why the natives accepted Ben (and possibly other members of DHARMA) and destroyed the DHARMA Initiative, but we do know that, once the murders of the DHARMA members was complete, the DHARMA food-drops and the recruitment process continued. In the past, when I was playing Devil’s Advocate for Ben, I theorized that Ben and the natives killed the members of DHARMA. It looks like I hit the nail on the head! In fact, I also stated that the food-drops and the recruitment process continued because Ben realized that the work of the DHARMA Initiative was of the utmost importance. Again, I may be exactly correct. Although Ben was bitter about how DHARMA could not have coexisted with the natives of the island, he must have fell in love with the work that they were doing there. Why else would sources outside of the island continue to send food and supplies and why else would recruitment projects to the island still be in existence?

So now we have Ben and the natives of the island working on the projects of the people that tried to wipe them out (well, at least, they attempted to wipe out the natives). Ben later becomes the leader of the natives, simply because he is the only person that can (or is allowed to) communicate with the mysterious Jacob. Ben takes advantage of the natives because of this fact. Just picture what you would do if you were the sole spokesperson for an all powerful, or hugely respected, figure! Yes, Ben is manipulating the natives because they hold high reverence for Jacob. This is shown in various ways, such as Ben adding Jack to Jacob’s list (as told by Pickett) and Ben questioning Juliet about her faith in Jacob. Just look at the faces of the members of Ben’s group when Locke tells Mikhail that Ben will be taking him to see Jacob. Examine how Mikhail asks Ben why Locke is being taken to see Jacob (Mikhail even mentions that Locke is an outsider). The members of Ben’s group, whether they were natives of the island or were recruited, must long for a chance to meet Jacob. As Mikhail indirectly hinted, outsiders should never meet Jacob (or, at least, not before the members of Ben’s group). Take a look at how Tom and Richard do not help Mikhail when Locke is beating him (even when Ben told them to help, they did not).

But how did the natives begin to hold such high esteem for Jacob? Obviously, Ben did not simply create an entire fabrication about the existence of a powerful entity known as Jacob and then expect the natives to follow blindly. Something must have occurred to transform Jacob into what he is now (even though we don’t fully know what Jacob is). It is too early to begin hypothesizing about the identity of Jacob with any certainty, but we can make guesses and then establish these guesses into our theories. Is Jacob Magnus Hanso, the commander of the Black Rock and grandfather to Alvar Hanso, founder of the Hanso Foundation and the man who funded DHARMA? Is Jacob John Locke from another time (just a joke)? Alright, let us forget about the identity of Jacob and let us focus more on what exactly he is. Does Jacob exist as a spirit or a ghost with the ability to move objects? Is Jacob an experiment gone horribly wrong or perfectly right? Even though we may not know who or what Jacob is, there may be clues to what properties that he has. The gray, ash-like substance Locke noticed may be of some importance. Notice that Ben walked over it and then Locke examined it by shining his flashlight on it, touching it and smelling it. Ben must have not wanted Locke doing that, because he told Locke twice to continue following him (and he raised his voice the second time). Is Jacob confined to within the circle of the ash-like substance (if it even makes a circle)? And what about the painting of the dog and those jars filled with colored liquids that were found in Jacob’s house? If we are going to examine everything, then why does Jacob even need a house?

Questions regarding Jacob are extremely difficult to answer. Even after we have briefly seen him, we can only make assumptions about him because we only have vague comments about him. I believe that the island’s healing powers are really Jacob at work. Ben’s “Well I certainty hope [Jacob] helps you” to Locke, confirms my suspicion. But, why would Jacob heal the members of Ben’s group (if Jacob is imprisoned by Ben)? It is possible that Jacob desires to see DHARMA’s projects complete. It is interesting to note that Ben had cancer (even though it was impossible, based on Ben’s words and based on the fact that Juliet did work-ups on the members of Ben’s group and found no evidence of cancer in anyone) and it took Ben a long time to recuperate from the operation (so long, in fact, that Ben even noticed and questioned why Locke gained the ability to walk again so rapidly). Also, the problem with births, that the members of Ben’s group have, may be Jacob at work too. Thus, although Jacob may be the leader, of sorts, for Ben’s people, he is also punishing them for something. Maybe the punishment has something to do with Ben and him going off-course?

yes, it still needs some work...

so any questions or comments about this would be great...

thanks!!!

Some nice work there TSA, but there is some stuff I'll adress...

Originally posted by they see ALL
As young Ben faces problems with a father who cares little for him and blames him for his wife’s death, he comes to the decision of death by suicide.

I don't think Ben had intended on comitting suicide. Remember he saw his mother in his window before running off. Personally I think he ran to find her again so he could show her to his dad.

Before Ben can run into the sonar, though, he sees his mother and hears a series of whispers. His mother tells him that it isn’t his time to die. Later, Ben hears additional whispers and sees a young Richard Alpert (who appears the same age as he is in present time) who is fascinated with the fact that Ben experienced a vision of his own mother who is supposed to be dead. Alpert and his people, the natives of Lost Island, accept Ben as one of their own and work together to purge the members of the DHARMA Initiative.

My theory is that Ben's mother was also, Yemi, Christian, and whoever else has been on the Island after death... and are all incarnation of Smokey. Perhaps the Hostiles are aware of what Smokey actually is (possibly it predates them) and coexist with it. It revealing itself to Ben could mean that he is somehow accepted by the Island and as such was inducted into the group. Maybe it also revealed itself to the few other DHARMA members that turned...

... the DHARMA food-drops and the recruitment process continued... In fact, I also stated that the food-drops and the recruitment process continued because Ben realized that the work of the DHARMA Initiative was of the utmost importance... Why else would sources outside of the island continue to send food and supplies and why else would recruitment projects to the island still be in existence?

My theory on that is different too. I think Ben and the Others changed the research that was happening, and just didn't tell anyone. If a few members of the Others wore DHARMA uniforms, add to that the converts who could keep in contact with headquarters, DHARMA may not know anything's happened. (But that discounts Mittlewerk saying everyone knew the DHARMA Initiative failed in the Lost Experience).
My other theory on that is a lot simpler. The Hanso Foundation hires a company to drop food and supplies at certain coordinates at certain times. They pay in advance which covers the next fifty years or so.

But how did the natives begin to hold such high esteem for Jacob? ... Is Jacob Magnus Hanso, the commander of the Black Rock and grandfather to Alvar Hanso, founder of the Hanso Foundation and the man who funded DHARMA?

I think the Natives (the Hostiles) are the descendants of the survivors of the Black Rock, which may explain the American accents and the presence of black Others (possibly descended from surviving slaves). Magnus Hanso could have freed the slaves in order to create a more productive society, and thus earned the respect of the society.
I think Jacob is in some way related to Isaac of Ulurru. Biblically Jacob is the father of Isaac, and the outline of Jacob is sort of similar to Isaac's...

Alright, let us forget about the identity of Jacob and let us focus more on what exactly he is. Does Jacob exist as a spirit or a ghost with the ability to move objects? Is Jacob an experiment gone horribly wrong or perfectly right?

There is a slight spoiler in the post I made above yours in which someone asks what Jacob is. The creators confirmed only that Jacob isn't an alien, but didn't address remarks about him being a non-human intelligence being used by the Others.

Even though we may not know who or what Jacob is, there may be clues to what properties that he has. The gray, ash-like substance Locke noticed may be of some importance. ... Is Jacob confined to within the circle of the ash-like substance (if it even makes a circle)? And what about the painting of the dog and those jars filled with colored liquids that were found in Jacob’s house? If we are going to examine everything, then why does Jacob even need a house?

This was also addressed. They said that the substance combined with might be keeping him confined... or that volcanic ash just happened to fall in a symmetrical pattern around the cabin.

It is interesting to note that Ben had cancer (even though it was impossible, based on Ben’s words and based on the fact that Juliet did work-ups on the members of Ben’s group and found no evidence of cancer in anyone) and it took Ben a long time to recuperate from the operation (so long, in fact, that Ben even noticed and questioned why Locke gained the ability to walk again so rapidly). Also, the problem with births, that the members of Ben’s group have, may be Jacob at work too. Thus, although Jacob may be the leader, of sorts, for Ben’s people, he is also punishing them for something. Maybe the punishment has something to do with Ben and him going off-course?

My theory on Ben's cancer is as follows. Jacob just doesn't want him to be in charge of the Natives (refer back to what I said about him being Magnus Hanso).
He somehow made the Island give Ben cancer and halt his recovery after the operation. However Locke came and showed Ben how to be in communion with the Island and thwarted Jacob's plan. So when Locke arrives Jacob reaches out to the one man who can stop Ben and set Jacob's people free.

Has anyone else read the writers/producers comments, where they said that there would be no more crashed survivors/cast members entering the island? If they are still holding true to this, then wouldn't this mean that Naomi isn't an actual crash survivor?

Sayyid already questioned her honesty, and he's barely ever wrong when judging a person's character.

I think she may be the true mole sent by the others to not only spy on the Losties, but Juliet as well.

Originally posted by JackofBlades
Some nice work there TSA

thanks...

However Locke came and showed Ben how to be in communion with the Island and thwarted Jacob's plan.

how did locke show ben this???

was this in an episode???

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Has anyone else read the writers/producers comments, where they said that there would be no more crashed survivors/cast members entering the island? If they are still holding true to this, then wouldn't this mean that Naomi isn't an actual crash survivor?

where did you hear this???

I think she may be the true mole sent by the others to not only spy on the Losties, but Juliet as well.

then why didn't ben know about her???

Originally posted by they see ALL

However Locke came and showed Ben how to be in communion with the Island and thwarted Jacob's plan.

how did locke show ben this???

was this in an episode???

Remember when he met Ben again and they had the whole discussion about Locke thinking that Ben was cheating by living in houses with electricity and water, communicating with the outside world, etc etc which ended with Locke saying "Your in the wheelchair... and I'm not" in episode 13?
Which was soon followed by the Others leaving the Barracks and living on the Island? Well, when Ben stands up he says, "I believe I have you to thank for this John... A week ago I couldn't move my toes, but the minute you showed up I started to feel pins and needles."

Speaking of the episode where Ben stands, did anyone notice the large ruin Anthony was chained too? Looked like an ancient column to me, could it be related to the 4 toed statue?

Maybe he didn't show him but he had some sort of effect on him or did something which would have thwarted the plan I believe Jacob had.

Originally posted by JackofBlades
Speaking of the episode where Ben stands, did anyone notice the large ruin Anthony was chained too? Looked like an ancient column to me, could it be related to the 4 toed statue?

it should be related...

Maybe he didn't show him but he had some sort of effect on him or did something which would have thwarted the plan I believe Jacob had.

yeah, i think it was more of an effect rather than an actual showing of something...

lostpedia is reporting, here, that penny, desmond's girlfriend, will appear in the season three finale...

hmmm, will the season three cliffhanger revolve around what we viewed in the final minutes of the season two finale???

and, although jack has a plan, i wonder how well it will work out (we all remember how well his and sayid's plan worked in the season two finale)...

EDIT:

and, on this page, aol is asking whether or not 'lost,' among other shows, should be cancelled...

what is with everyone hating on 'lost' recently???




[edit on 14-5-2007 by they see ALL]

Less 'Lost' Sleep in '08...

...

But seriously, folks: When "Lost" does begin its fourth season in early 2008, McPherson is hoping to put it in an earlier timeslot than its current 10 p.m. ET berth. "I think it's better as a 9 o'clock or 8 o'clock show," he says.

...

In Tuesday's announcement of the schedule for 2007-08, McPherson didn't give "Lost" a specific spot in the lineup when it returns, most likely in February 2008. He did say it's likely to remain on Wednesdays, and reiterated that he'd like the show to air before 10 p.m., but where it lands will depend on how ABC's lineup performs in the first half of the season.

"Listen -- its a great position to be in," he says. "We're going to see where we are coming into the spring and see what happens. It's a tool to use."

I think LOST should be put back to 9pm, mainly because it WAS a family show, but this season wasn't very kid friendly. I mean I'm 19 and still gagged watching Roger Linus die, and Mikhail get sonic-ed. But kids really love all the gore and LOST is something people like.

ABC Podcast Summary "Man Behind the Curtain"...

...

Carlton Cuse and Damon Linderoff expanded on their desire to go to the three season 16-episode format. They look at every season as its own book and compared it to JK Rowling and the Harry Potter series. They feel that they have three more stories to tell to complete the story. Season 1 was the story of the survivors getting to know the island and each other. Season 2 was the story of the Swan Hatch with season 3 focused on the Others. This season finale will follow the pattern of the previous ones by giving us a good indication of which story season 4 will tell.

...

They were very clear that we did see a purge of Dharma, "basically the Others wiped out Dharma". They also clarified that Ben did let us know that he was not the only Dharma member who was "smart enough" to not end up in the pit. We will see more of the story of the purge and the history of Dharma including how Dr. Candle lost his arm and more of Annie. (My theory: Annie survived the purge, got pregnant with Ben's child and died) They ended with an uncharacteristically straightforward summary. "Ben took John Locke out to see Jacob as kind of a litmus test. He wanted to find out if in fact John Locke really was special and if John Locke could see or hear Jacob, that would indicate that Locke was special. So when Locke did hear Jacob, Ben freaked out because Locke was now a threat to Ben and his leadership. In essence, Ben lead Locke to the pit and shot him because he did not want his leadership of the Others challenged." This is nothing earth shattering, but it does (once again) confirm that what we see in the show is truthful. What was unique was their frankness in dealing with the subject. The usual routine would be to provide the information with jokes and goofing around. It was strange how forcefully the statement was delivered. It made it seem that it was important that we understood the scene.

Here's what I think

Our evironment factors in on who we become. Ben slowly became evil being hated by his own father for his mothers death. Birthdays are important because Ben's father never celebrated them, and Ben helped kill his father and Dharma on his birthday. Age is relative, epecially when you see the guy talking to child ben with the long hair, and not being any older when talking to adult ben, just better hair cut.

Maybe next year we will find out that Locke's mom was an original island born who left the island. Locke's non island life was so crappy not because of his father, but because he wasn't where he was suppost to be.

Part of me thinks that the Black, Jurassic Park sounding smoke is Dharma. The spirits of all the dead in a blind rage for all of eternity. Maybe that's why the it tries to attack the others too, not just the lost. I would like to know when it first was seen, after Dharma's death, or long before anyone in habited the island.

Ben has some kind of magical control over the island That's why the now short haired Richard answers to him. That's why the spirit of Jacob is his slave.


Oh by the way found a cool site

I'm sure its been mentioned before and I just didn't notice, but I thought i would mention it.

Lost-media.com

Has every show broken down still by still all three seasons. Just thought I would throw that out there in case someone had not heard.


[edit on 16-5-2007 by Royal76]

[edit on 16-5-2007 by Royal76]

The Crew of Black Rock,

Captain:
Magnus Hanso
1st Mate:
Alexander Widmore
2nd Mate:
Clifford Widmore
Crew:
Robert Broughton
Johannes Bedell
Richard Alpert
Jacob Deyer
Henrick Skeggs
Thomas Parys
Anthony Forster
Adam Turberville
Thomas Hetley
Henry Wingfeild
John Poulter
Reginald Knolles
Edward Jackman

got this from www.onentofl.com...

don't know if its real or not. Just because something is on the internet doesn't make it real right.

If it is true then Jacob Deyer, could be the Jacob ben talks about.



[edit on 16-5-2007 by Royal76]

I highly doubt that crew manifest is real because if it was it would have been leapt on immediately already.

I mean it lists TWO members of the Widmore family as crew members as well as Richard Alpert and a Thomas Parys (who I guess is supposed to be Tom).

The main thing that makes me doubt it is the fact it lists all the crew as being born in Huntingdonshire, England, when we know for a FACT that the Hanso line is of Danish descent. Also considering Tom and Richard's thick American accents its unlikely they had been born in England.
Another thing is that the site mentions the Black Rock traded human cargo, which would be unknown considering the slave trade was illegal when the Rock was trading, and that site says there were only a small number of records of what it did.

Part of me thinks that the Black, Jurassic Park sounding smoke is Dharma. The spirits of all the dead in a blind rage for all of eternity. Maybe that's why the it tries to attack the others too, not just the lost. I would like to know when it first was seen, after Dharma's death, or long before anyone in habited the island.

We know for a fact that we saw the Monster after the 23rd Psalm in the second season, but it wasn't the Monster. This has led most of us to believe the Monster was in fact appearing as the dead characters (Yemi mainly in that season).
If this is true then the Monster was probably Ben's mother when he ran away, and Richard seemed very interested to hear that an off-Islander had seen a dead relative come to life.

Maybe next year we will find out that Locke's mom was an original island born who left the island.

I doubt that. Remember Ben said that none of them could actually leave the Island but they only believed they could. However we also know Richard and Ethan have left the Island... but they always returned. I doubt Locke's mother, if she was a native, would stay away for long.

Our evironment factors in on who we become. Ben slowly became evil being hated by his own father for his mothers death. Birthdays are important because Ben's father never celebrated them, and Ben helped kill his father and Dharma on his birthday.

I don't think Ben is evil, just desperate. He hasn't done anything exceptionally evil, and even killing his father can't really be considered evil. He had to put up with knowing that his father had wished he had never been born for 30 years and it must have made it so much easier to eliminate him. I don't think Ben's birthday is important to him any more. He seemed to mention it only in passing when Richard arrived, and it seemed more emphasis was placed on what he said afterwards ("You do remember birthdays don't you?").

Age is relative, epecially when you see the guy talking to child ben with the long hair, and not being any older when talking to adult ben, just better hair cut.

I don't understand what that means. Could you explain it please?

Also I read on Lostpedia that Danielle could be lying...

Assuming the distress signal she made is 35 seconds long, and using Iteration 17294535, the signal has been playing for 6,050,308,725 seconds. This means that (there are 86400 seconds in a day) the signal has been playing for 7005.88802083(3 recurring) days. This means it has been playing (using 7005) for 19 years, not 16.

[edit on 16/5/07 by JackofBlades]

jeez, no replies about tonight's episode???

i watched it at my girlfriend's house and i missed some conversation during a scene with sayid...

anyway, i felt that this episode was a "filler" (even though it did a great job a setting the stage for the finale)...

as i watched the episode, i really thought that charlie would die (especially during the scene where his brother gave him the ring)...

i also thought that, among other things, desmond would take charlie's place and would die (i would much rather see charlie dead than desmond, though)...

i am shocked that another station is being revealed to us this close to the end of the season (well, technically, it will be in the finale when we will see this station in detail)...

"the looking glass" station, huh???

hmmm, i always thought the the finale would be called "through the looking glass" because jack is a man of science...

it seems that whatever is in that station will play a huge role in the episode...

the producers have always said that the wire that sayid found would come back in a huge way...

and, it would appear that, the finale is going to change everything (as they usually do)...

and why does every season finale involve dynamite in some way

some great stuff:

Charlie Meets Nadia "Greatest Hits"...

First Look: Inside The Looking Glass Hatch "Greatest Hits"...

First Look: The Looking Glass Hatch "Greatest Hits"...

Looking Glass Hatch Layout "Greatest Hits"...

Jacobs House...

the looking glass station (lostpedia)...

that'll keep you all busy for a while

hmmm, it seems that i was wrong about a little something a while back...

i believed that the line logo appeared on the "namaste" sign in the preview for "the man behind the curtain"...

but it was just the catch-all dharma logo...

o0o well...

i can admit my mistakes...

let's start talking about interesting stuff...

the looking glass station may be in between desmond's snow globe and the outside world...

Excellent episode. I got a little emotional watching it, but it was strong, masculine emotional... not soppy crying. Maybe a little crying then...

Anywho I think the Station is called the looking glass because entering through the Moon Zone (whatever it was called) is similar to going through a Looking glass.

I loved the fact that Charlie was flashing back to the best times of his life, and I really hope he doesn't die.
And I knew Naomi was English! There wasn't much in this episode because, as TSA said, it was more about setting up a cracking finale.

One thing that struck me though... didn't Karl recognise the blatant similarity between Danielle and Alex?

I thought it was a great episode. I am happy that Charlie didn't die, as that would have sucked as he is a pretty cool. Anyways, I don't think I'm right here so please do correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't the woman that Charlie saved in the alley the same woman that was having Sayid Tortured in her house by her husband? Let me know if this is correct.