THE 4th Dimension is time??????

Originally posted by sardion2000
How does the adoption of a new calendar system help us all get along.

Right now there are different calendars in use in different places. If we all agree to unite and adopt the same one, it could become the symbolic thread that unites us and ushers in a new age of inclusion as opposed to division. If the names of the months, days, and seasons are democratically arrived at, or by some formula that recognizes all the regions, it would be something we did together. A first. A new start in our pursuit of peace and harmony, and a new calendar that will save billions of dollars that could be used to end the tragic present reality of 50 000 + children dying every single day for want of basic medical care or food. Of course, if nations all donated 1% of their military budgets to eradicating this horror, it would probably be enough to cover it, and the savings that the new, more efficient calendar would create could be used for something else, like eco system restoration, or pollution reduction, etc.
The future is not set, we can make changes, we can make a difference.

Thank you Blackguard for your insightful posts. As we are trying to say the 13 month lunar calender will not only be easier to use as a time keeping device, but it will usher in a new age or peace, love, and prosperity. Sure it will take some getting use to but the change over from the outdated gregorian calender is inevitable. In my own opinion the only reason that the public masses will have a hard time with it is because of the silly superstition that 13 is "bad luck".

If we are still thinking that luck itself is constant and finite and that we don't actually create it we are in trouble. Luck is in fact just a creation of the subconscious psyche perpetuated by good or bad thoughts of what will happen. Anyways back on topic.

The 13 moon calenders benefits aren't just wow a new more precise calender. They are much, much greater. This type of calendar, a 28 day-calendar, was actively supported by the International Chamber of Commerce in 1931. The calendar change was supported by people such as Eastman Kodak and Mahatma Gandhi.

The 28-day calendar makes accounting easier and means that any day will fall on the same day of the week, year-after-year. That makes my job a whole lot easier, seeing as I'm an accountant. Also The Incans, Mayans, ancient Egyptians, Polynesians, and the Lakota peoples also used a 28-day system.

APC I don't know why you think this mathematically correct system isn't better then our current system. The lunar systems mathematically system is so precise won't even need a calender to use it... as every day of every week is exactly the same.

Another intreuging fact is that dolphins do in fact tell time with this 13 month, 28 day calender. Hard to believe but all the info you know can be found here.

www.tortuga.com
www.lawoftime.org...
www.13moon.com
www.2012.com.au...
change-the-calendar.tribe.net...

If anyone here believes that 2012 will be a spiritual awakening and a rebirth of our minds. Then they will realize why this change is desperately needed.

[edit on 5-22-2005 by CPYKOmega]

I guess it will remain a matter of opinion as to what 'wasteful' and 'efficient' mean.

And I wasn't implying the need to restructure recorded data, rather the redevelopment of all present systems that deal with dating.
"Systems" including recorded, computed, communicated, monetary, all standards, like I said... just about everything.
Likelyhood of a conversion occurring successfully in modern times: .0001%
Ok so not impossible.

Maybe after most everyone dies.. sure it could work.

You guys are right though in that many natural systems are adapted to a Lunar "bio-calendar".. mostly oceanic systems (dolphins included ).

Originally posted by apc
I guess it will remain a matter of opinion as to what 'wasteful' and 'efficient' mean.

And I wasn't implying the need to restructure recorded data, rather the redevelopment of all present systems that deal with dating.
"Systems" including recorded, computed, communicated, monetary, all standards, like I said... just about everything.
Likelyhood of a conversion occurring successfully in modern times: .0001%
Ok so not impossible.

Maybe after most everyone dies.. sure it could work.

You guys are right though in that many natural systems are adapted to a Lunar "bio-calendar".. mostly oceanic systems (dolphins included

).

Regarding wasteful and efficient, I used to commute 120 miles round trip 5 or 6 days a week. When I began my job I drove a Chevy Blazer and the cost of the gas was ludicrous. I was able to get a new vehicle about 3 months later. I had $16 000 left on my Blazer loan, and I traded it for a Honda Civic. When the dust cleared, I had an $18 000 car loan, spread over 3 more years, and had traded my 1997 four door, leather interior, pw, ps, ac, cruise control, moonroof, 195 hp, 4.3L 6 cyl., Chevy Blazer in towards a 1999 base model Honda Civic. And my loan was upped $2 000, so that I could have a much better mileage commuter car.

Likelyhood of a conversion occurring successfully in modern times: .0001%
Ok so not impossible.

Maybe after most everyone dies.. sure it could work.
APC

In Dumb and Dumber, Jim Carey asks what his chances are of getting with lady and she says 1 in a 1 000 000. His reply?
"So you're saying there is a chance. Wow, that's great."

I don't like statistics. As Disraeli said, " There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics."
I wonder how many folks will see your post and just dismiss the idea as being 'too unlikely to succeed'? I will not give up on it becuz the reward is too great to pass up. If the Wright Bros., Roger Bannister, and NASA had noticed, their odds of success according to most experts was zero.
Good thing they didn't just quit in the face of such slim chances.

While reading this very interesting thread I couldn't help notice how far off course it went. Calendar conversions and 4th dimensions are not directly related are they?

I just had an interesting thought, while we say we exist in 3d (x,y,z), what do we consider "ourselves"? Is it the total sum of all our atoms? If you consider the smallest particles of what makes us "us" isn't it possible to consider we are composed of billions of "points" in 0 dimension. Maybe that's a stupid idea, i dunno.

I was lead to believe that time was necesary for physical reality. With out time there is no spatial quality, and that time was relative in that if it could be observed by an indepedent oberver there would be no obsolute time. Wouldn't that also mean that physical space is relative? And if it is all relative, wouldn't at some point the earth be moving relatively faster than the speed of light when compared to some other object in the universe?

Originally posted by IndigenousDave
While reading this very interesting thread I couldn't help notice how far off course it went. Calendar conversions and 4th dimensions are not directly related are they?

I just had an interesting thought, while we say we exist in 3d (x,y,z), what do we consider "ourselves"? Is it the total sum of all our atoms? If you consider the smallest particles of what makes us "us" isn't it possible to consider we are composed of billions of "points" in 0 dimension. Maybe that's a stupid idea, i dunno.

I was lead to believe that time was necesary for physical reality. With out time there is no spatial quality, and that time was relative in that if it could be observed by an indepedent oberver there would be no obsolute time. Wouldn't that also mean that physical space is relative? And if it is all relative, wouldn't at some point the earth be moving relatively faster than the speed of light when compared to some other object in the universe?

Yes you are correct... this thread has veered a bit off course. We went off into the more spiritual aspects of time. Nonetheless time being the next dimension that we know of, is a very interesting hypothesis. I have done quite a bit of reading as of lately, on the net, about time being the 4th dimension and alot of it has made sense.

I'm not a scientist though and the scientific concepts of time and the 4th dimension are hard to understand. If there are any scientists, or at least people here who are well versed in advanced physics and/or theories dealing with dimensions please deluge us with your intelligence dealing with the subject at hand.

I'm a physicist, but I deal more with electrodynamics and surface physics. I mean, the 4th dimension is time, so says Einstein. We can't possibly imagine it because we're restricted to three dimensions. According to String Theory there are 11 dimensions, which will really throw you off if the 4th one is getting to you ...

Just imagine a 2D person walking around, and then you pick him up. He goes back to his 2D world and says "Guys...I've been...up!" The 2D world would laugh, as "up" isn't fathomable.

That's about all I can throw in. Maybe more questions/comments and it'll make me say more.

Just imagine a 2D person walking around, and then you pick him up. He goes back to his 2D world and says "Guys...I've been...up!" The 2D world would laugh, as "up" isn't fathomable.

Ah the old Flat Land analogy As a Physist T_Jesus, what is your opinion on String Theory?

Well, my thing with String Theory is that it's alot of math, with no experimental evidence. The math too, is far too complicated for even the best mathematicians to figure out.

I remember when someone asked what the most misunderstood thing in science was, and I said math. I still stand by that, because we can't really understand our own theories without knowing the deep mathematical results.

Not only that, but I don't think I've seen any experiments to support String Theory. Like I already said though, at least it's a start.

I am really not a String Theory expert, well, no one is I suppose.

If you want to ask anything specific, shoot.

Originally posted by T_Jesus
Well, my thing with String Theory is that it's alot of math, with no experimental evidence.

Does this qualify as experimental evidence?

www.spacedaily.com...

In three spatial dimensions, it is a close relative of the quark-gluon plasma, the super-hot state of matter that hasn't existed since the tiniest fraction of a second after the big bang that started the universe.

When viewed in 10 dimensions, the minimum number prescribed by what physicists call "string theory," it is a black hole.

No matter what you call it, though, that substance and others similar to it could be the most-perfect fluids in existence because they have ultra-low viscosity, or resistance to flow, said Dam Thanh Son, an associate physics professor in the Institute for Nuclear Theory at the University of Washington

That's a cool article, but I like to see math and numbers (as I think we all should). The problem with articles people post here is that they usually introduce the subject, say what they wanted to get, and then claim they got it. I need the inbetween steps...

As for black holes, they're interesting...I don't think they can support string theory because we can't directly observe them, nor recreate them in the lab and do experiments (I know there was some article that a tiny black hole was created, but I'd also like to see the published paper on that one). If there were a way to see string influence on something we could test in the lab, then I'd be happy.

Here you go T_Jesus

Viscosity in Strongly Interacting Quantum Field Theories from Black Hole Physics

I believe this is the one. It's only the Abstract though. I'm looking for the other one about the Tiny Black Holes in Particle Accelorators, I remember that one as well, freaked a bunch of ATSers out when it was posted heh.

[edit on 24-5-2005 by sardion2000]

Has anyone hear read any of Hitoshi Murayama's work. I linked to his page on this thread. But that was over 2 years ago. If anyone here can "decypher" his work for us non physics types. Please do so and we will be forever grateful.

hitoshi.berkeley.edu...

If you could find the full paper I'd like to read it. I have Sci-Finder scholar on my computer at work, if I have time I'll look it up. Sometimes I have to go to other universities to get certain things though

Originally posted by T_Jesus
If you could find the full paper I'd like to read it. I have Sci-Finder scholar on my computer at work, if I have time I'll look it up. Sometimes I have to go to other universities to get certain things though

Most of the stuff is on his website... you just have to go digging around a bit. And yes there is A LOT of stuff there. One power point presentation that I want to check out is about 150 megs.

Most of the pdf theories etc are over 25 megs a piece!!! I will start trying to comprehend them in the next few days. As they are very fascinating theories.

Some people make their papers almost impossible to read...it's annoying. As long as there's math involved I'll understand the jist of it, but sometimes the go thesaurus-happy and put down ridiculous words no one ever uses.

Found the full PDF version of that Abstact I posted above for ya T_Jesus

arxiv.org...

I cannot make heads or tails of it though.

Hmm, the link doesn't seem to be working. Are you sure that the link is correct, and is it still working for you?

Yup it's working. You sure you have an updated browser(Like Firefox ) and the newest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader? I'll try to find an HTML version for ya.

[Offtopic]

IN the mean time did you see this thread I just posted, it's off topic but Cool nontheless.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[/Offtopic]

This is the link I found the PDF version from, cannot seem to find another type of document format
citebase.eprints.org...:arXiv.org:hep-th/0405231