Behold a White Horse

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7
If me being 18 yrs old and understanding what love actually feels like, hard as it may be for you to believe that an 18 yr old can accept something that you won't. I don't touch drugs nor do I drink, so whatever you wish to call me go ahead, i will forgive you and I will not judge you for it, I know what it's like to be confused.

I'm not saying that I'm right and your wrong, but I just find it hard to believe that the creator of all that is would rule with fear instead of love. Lose your fear and you will find love. In the end, love prevails over all.

For 18 you are wise beyond the years of many. I look forward to reading many of your future posts!

PS - I love that avatar.....it is really awesome the way it meshes together!

Originally posted by ben91069

For 18 you are wise beyond the years of many. I look forward to reading many of your future posts!

PS - I love that avatar.....it is really awesome the way it meshes together!

Thank you so much ben, i really appreciate what you said.

The avatar, to me, represents the splitting of duality, and a meshing into a oneness.

May peace, love and light be with you ben, as well as all who are here.

Originally posted by ben91069
What I am saying is that if we believe in a physical judgement, then we get our reward just like we ask. If we see past the physical, then we are literally asking God to judge us in spirit and then the physical judgement becomes obsolete. It is much like Jesus words regarding washing of a cup. We should not work towards washing the outside of the cup, for the inside will still be dirty, but rather wash the inside of the cup and then no matter how dirty the outside appears, it will still be clean, because the inside is what contains the water which gives us life.

I would say that the judgement will be physically felt and spiritually felt. But the main thing is it is escapable through Christ.

I disagree with the interpretation of the cup thing. The inside is to be washed first, then the outside will begin to look clean also.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I would say that the judgement will be physically felt and spiritually felt. But the main thing is it is escapable through Christ.

I disagree with the interpretation of the cup thing. The inside is to be washed first, then the outside will begin to look clean also.

You are on to the message behind it if you look a little deeper, and I am not trying to discredit you but just a nudge to ask you to look again, and with God's will you see it.

The outside will be clean, but not yet. These cups he spoke of are not made of glass like we have today, but clay vessels that one cannot tell if the inside is dirty or not by looking at the outside. Only the one who looks inside the cup could see whether the inside is clean, and then the outside becomes insignificant. The only one who knows if the inside is clean is the one drinking from the cup, not the observer standing in the same room, unless of course they drank from the same cup and have the same validation.

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7

Originally posted by ben91069

For 18 you are wise beyond the years of many. I look forward to reading many of your future posts!

PS - I love that avatar.....it is really awesome the way it meshes together!

Thank you so much ben, i really appreciate what you said.

The avatar, to me, represents the splitting of duality, and a meshing into a oneness.

May peace, love and light be with you ben, as well as all who are here.

18???????????

It was my understanding that you need so many points to get an avatar and a signiture line.

New software????????

Originally posted by ben91069


You are on to the message behind it if you look a little deeper, and I am not trying to discredit you but just a nudge to ask you to look again, and with God's will you see it.

Which god? Ahura Mazda Lucifer?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

18???????????

It was my understanding that you need so many points to get an avatar and a signiture line.

New software????????

I believe you do need 250 points for the first title line and 500 for the second, but i didn't have to do anything to get an avatar and a signiture line when i registered. That is also why i don't have any backround colors or anything like that ( because of the points issue).

[edit on 26/8/2006 by 7Pan7cho7]

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

18???????????

It was my understanding that you need so many points to get an avatar and a signiture line.

New software????????

I believe you do need 250 points for the first title line and 500 for the second, but i didn't have to do anything to get an avatar and a signiture line when i registered. That is also why i don't have any backround colors or anything like that ( because of the points issue).

[edit on 26/8/2006 by 7Pan7cho7]

Thanks, It seems like your points have stayed at 12,8,2 even after you post but I have not paid enough attention to be sure.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by ben91069


You are on to the message behind it if you look a little deeper, and I am not trying to discredit you but just a nudge to ask you to look again, and with God's will you see it.

Which god? Ahura Mazda Lucifer?

Geez Sun. First you criticize one person, then me, and now I cannot comment to another person without your approval. Your crusade knows no bounds does it? Do you get it that your reward is already with you or did you miss that too? You have your prize and I do not, so leave it at that.

Originally posted by ben91069

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by ben91069


You are on to the message behind it if you look a little deeper, and I am not trying to discredit you but just a nudge to ask you to look again, and with God's will you see it.

Which god? Ahura Mazda Lucifer?

Geez Sun. First you criticize one person, then me, and now I cannot comment to another person without your approval. Your crusade knows no bounds does it? Do you get it that your reward is already with you or did you miss that too? You have your prize and I do not, so leave it at that.

Let's just simplify things and get everything out in the open. It's pretty easy, just identify your god.

Don't make a comment "and with Gods will you will see it"
say what you mean "And with Lucifers will you will see it"

And just so you know, I only identified the wolf in sheeps clothes in your case.
Annie got a little more, you might ask her about her gods power.

And there will be no harvest in October. If there is no harvest in October, will you realize you have been deceived?

i'm done for the night, you guys can keep arguing if you wish, but please visit this website and read the article "Wildflowers". It's on mrwupy's website, he is a moderater on ATS ( if you don't already know this ). I find this article is exactly what i've been telling people but can't seem to find the words like mrwupy did.

If you don't like the story, forget i ever mentioned it to you. However, if you find it true, please spread the word of this story for all to read.

Thank you for your time regardless.

Peace, love, and light to all.

Wildflowers

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Let's just simplify things and get everything out in the open. It's pretty easy, just identify your god.

Don't make a comment "and with Gods will you will see it"
say what you mean "And with Lucifers will you will see it"

And just so you know, I only identified the wolf in sheeps clothes in your case.
Annie got a little more, you might ask her about her gods power.

And there will be no harvest in October. If there is no harvest in October, will you realize you have been deceived?

And you are correct. Here is my response by which you so graciously base your opinions on:

Mat 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

I approve of all the fish caught in the sea, but you cast your net and gather only the kinds you like and throw the rest back into the sea.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever, thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever, thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I do not call anything on earth unacceptable in Heaven therefore I do not bind up Heaven to only accept a few people, yet you bind up so much of Heaven that no one can get in.

Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs, for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Are you born without gender Sun? Did someone change your gender without your approval Sun or did you become neither a man nor woman for the sake of the Kingdom? My God speaks of these things through the mouth-piece of the man Jesus.
He is not the truth, but the one who speaks through him is. Is this the guy you profess? I am quoting him here so you will twist his words into what you believe since you won't leave it alone.

Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Who is a child to you Sun? Is not a child considered a subordinate? And since you subordinate so many what is preventing them from the Kingdom? I tell you the truth, the only obstacle within you is your belief that they are not worthy of the Kingdom when in fact they are worthy by your same belief that "Christ" died for sins. Did not your Jesus die for all sins or just some of them?

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

All these quotes are words out of Christ's mouth. His father is mine just for your clarification of the matter. My God (actually just my Dad) has not a name like you infer, because he means many things to many people. What is a name Sun? A symbol or meaning of something that references character? How can you put a name on everything other than "I am". Who is your God Sun? Name yours since you think he has just one name. I have told you of my father now tell me about your God.

Originally posted by dbrandt
I'll answer the parrot talk first.

You failed to do so.

What I meant by "parrot talk" is not just saying someone else's words, but saying them without understanding.

Astronautical engineering is based on ordinary human experience and so may be expressed in human language. All notions of God are based on extraordinary experience not available to most people, and no human language can convey it.

Same thing with the Bible. It's an instruction book for how to operate in a complex universe.

Such an instruction book is impossible. All books are written in human language. Human language cannot convey the Mysteries. If God were to have literally dictated every word to His human scribes, the Bible still could not convey the Truth that Christians believe it does, because no human language can do that.

You are right God could have said, you know what these humans had it good and blew it by not believing me. It's their own fault, to hell with all of them.

Do you understand what the word "believing" means in that context, in order to make it true?

I'll give you a hint: it has absolutely nothing to do with intellectual opinions on any subject.

God cannot live with sin and the only way to live with God is to be perfect.

If someone who had raped a little 7 year old girl, and without a doubt the evidence proves his guilt, came before the juge for sentencing and the judge says, "I'm going to overlook the law and set you free" and/or "the guilty is too short to go to prison, justice has no place in this courtroom". We would think the judge was stupid and corrupt and not worthy of being in his position.

Correct. But divine "law" is only metaphorical law, divine "justice" only metaphorical justice, and we are not talking about courts of law here. We are talking about the relationship between the soul and the Whole. The problem is not that we "sin" in the sense of breaking some nitpicky little rule or other. The problem is that we "sin" in the sense of separating ourselves from God. That's what it's really all about, and getting hung up on metaphors like that of a courtroom and punishment as if they were literally true is only going to aggravate the problem.

So you call it "rigmorale". God calls it mercy and grace and the way to satisfy the law.

No, sir. YOU call it mercy and grace. But that makes no sense. You envision God, first and foremost, as a vicious, despicable tyrant worse than any merely human dictator in the history of the world, and then when He lets somebody off of His absurdly draconian punishment unfitting the crime, provided the poor victim jumps through enough hoops and castrates his critical thinking and sense of justice, you find that merciful and gracious by comparison. Which I suppose it is, but only by comparison to the original despotism.

That despotism is part of the picture, though, and renders the mercy merciless.

My own moral sense was tainted until I received Christ. So it was not reliable.

That's too bad. I am frankly skeptical that what you say here is true, or that you really are a moral cripple at heart. I think you're being too hard on yourself, but then I don't really know you, so I could be wrong.

I do know that my own moral sense isn't tainted in the least. Surrendering it to someone else's authority, so that I forego the right to make my own decisions about right and wrong -- that would be tainted.

As far as responsibility, it now involves trusting God and placing faith in Him.

That's not responsibility, it's an abdication of responsibility.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward

If God were to have literally dictated every word to His human scribes, the Bible still could not convey the Truth that Christians believe it does, because no human language can do that.

[

Of course it can because God wants us to know Him. So He presents it so we can.


the problem is those who have made a choice not to believe the Bible and what it says regarding who God is and the way He has provided for salvation believe the verse below.

1 Corinthians1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward

If God were to have literally dictated every word to His human scribes, the Bible still could not convey the Truth that Christians believe it does, because no human language can do that.

[

Of course it can because God wants us to know Him. So He presents it so we can.

No. That is impossible. I'm sorry, but our brains have limits, and our languages can only refer to what we have experienced. It is impossible to describe color to a blind man, and equally impossible to describe the process of becoming one with God to a person who has only normal, mundane experiences to refer to. There are no words to do it with.

And that is why "the Word of God" as Christians think of it is an impossibility. There can be no such book.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward

No. That is impossible. I'm sorry, but our brains have limits, and our languages can only refer to what we have experienced.

I'm sorry that you feel that way but I live with God everyday. I read the Bible, I experience what it's like to read a verse 64 times and then on the 65th time God shows you something you've never seen before.

I know differently.

You mentioned something about being one with God, that sounds like a little new age lingo, and as such is not what I'm talking about. God is a distinct and seperate being from me. He desires that I have a relationship with Him, and as the days go by that becomes my desire more and more also. It's about becoming what God intended for a person to be. It's about knowing Him and growing in a relationship with Him.

I'll say it once again we will not know everything there is to know about God this side of eternity, but He wants us to start to Know Him, and that is possible. The Bible definitely reveals and informs us of God and of , past, present and future truths, and changes us.

Then because we will have all of eternity with God we will get to know more about Him every moment of existence. So we will be constantly learning more about Him as He reveals new aspects of Himself to us in eternity.

I'll repeat it again, I know different cause I live it and know the Holy Spirit dwells in me to lead and teach.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Notice the word know in the above verse. It's there for a reason, God wants us to know. He tells us He wants us to know.

If you choose not to believe the Bible is not from God that's your choice. I have placed faith in Christ and so I know I can trust the Bible to reveal who God is.

[edit on 27-8-2006 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by dbrandt
You mentioned something about being one with God, that sounds like a little new age lingo, and as such is not what I'm talking about.

You've got to be kidding, dbrandt! You say you read the bible...BUT do you read it for comprehension?

New age lingo?!?!?

'I and my Father are one.' ~ John 10:30

BTW, this age is just about over. Change is the only constant (beside God, of course, but all changes are of God....even the change over to the 'new age!')

God is a distinct and seperate being from me.

Self-diagnosis. And an accurate one, too, it seems. Darn shame, too. :shk:

I'll repeat it again, I know different cause I live it and know the Holy Spirit dwells in me to lead and teach.

Teach what?

How to fold, spindle, and mutilate?

Try this verse, dbrandt:

My brothers, be not many teachers, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. ~ James 3:1

Hey! Look out, don't knock over your glass of milk turning the pages of that book in front of you!


[edit on 8/27/2006 by queenannie38]

My apologies for my late reply. I have periods where I am unable to post but I can read the posts.

ben, thanks for the response. I appreciate the time you took out to write and you have also grown on me.

Don't take my disagreement with some of your thoughts as anything but a correction in love.

You state:

Testing truth cannot be discerned from the text of the Bible, because they are just words on a page.

This would be incorrect because by "words" is how God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. If God is the Author of Truth then His word would also be True. Scripture declares that Jesus is God incarnate. To teach otherwise is heresy. To believe otherwise is to be ignorant. I know one is teaching heresy if it does not align up with Gods Truths revealed in Scripture.

It does say that all people are forgiven. To be saved from sin is to believe in God's forgiveness, for if one does not believe in salvation, then one is doomed to be judged in sin. For now it is only in word to seperate the wheat from the chaff, but after the last day it will be shown in deed. You are correct that all are not destined, but this is only until the end of the age, when all will be shown and will believe. This is the meaning of the time when every knee shall bow before God.

First, it does not state that all people are forgiven. Scripture states that Jesus died for the sin of the world BUT not in a blanket fashion. Jesus death, while for sin, was only for the sin of those predestined for salvation by God the Father. Only the "elect" shall be saved.

Second, this passage does not infer that all men shall be saved. In Isaiah we read that it is ONLY the people of Israel that shall be blessed, not everyone that bows their knee, even though ALL shall bow their knee.

Isa 45:23-25
23 "I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
24 "They will say of Me, "Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.'
Men will come to Him,
And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
25 "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
Will be justified and will glory."
NASU

In the below passage we read nothing about salvation but rather how every knee shall bow. The unbeliever, when before Jesus, has no choice but to bow for he or she is in the presence of God their Creator. This though does not mean salvation for them. To imply so is to read into the passage.

Phil 2:8-11
8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,

10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASU

So you are saying that loving someone is judging what they believe? The absolute truth will let the chips fall where they may so it is hardly necessary to rebuke ones faith. Become all things to all people, not make all people become you.

If I would not correct another for teaching or believing heresy what then does that say of me? I correct my child because I love them. Love is all about correction, not just letting the chips fall where they may. If I took that attitude with my children I would be labeled a horrible and unloving parent.

This is not incorrect, because God is one, but can infinitely divide hisself to be many and still be a whole. It is unmentionable to us because it defies all logic.

This is in complete error to the very nature of God. God is NOT a god of evil or darkness as Eastern religions have. God is the very basis of LOGIC and He cannot contradict Himself. God cannot exsist and not exsist at the same time.

Thank you

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7
It really saddens me to see everyone bickering like this. Arguing about who's right and who's wrong.

Why can't people just see that there is no right or wrong. We are all loved and forgiven. Instead of arguing about our beliefs, we should be focused on making our home a better place for all.

Love is all there is in the end, so why do we fight now? I don't wish to argue with anyone, I simply wish for all to open their eyes and feel true love. To understand that God is love and light.

Please can we all just stop fighting and start loving. When you feel what love truely is, it is hard not to love everything and everyone. All I ask is that you consider my words, if they don't ring true to you, then you aren't ready for them.

Please stop fighting.

Love and light to all.

You have no idea what you are stating here for you seek to correct people and yet state:

Why can't people just see that there is no right or wrong.

So are you "right or wrong" about this statement? In stating there is no "right or wrong" you have made everything you state afterwards nonsense.

For example:

All I ask is that you consider my words, if they don't ring true to you, then you aren't ready for them.

You have just explained that there is no right or wrong yet YOUR view is the TRUE view to hold for you then imply that if one doesn't agree with you that they are not ready for it, correct?

Your worldview is contradictory so your worldview crumbles.

Originally posted by Two Steps Forward

Originally posted by Sun MatrixWhat he really said was:

Whats going on over here fellow wolves dressed in sheeps clothes. How can you lead anyone astray if they see your swords and axes.

No, that's not what he said, because that people are here trying to "lead others astray" is your own personal delusion, and not something shared by those you are accusing. That is: THEY don't believe they are leading anyone astray, only YOU believe that. And so no, it is quite impossible that what you stated is what he meant.

Arguably, the biggest problem with Christianity in its exclusivist, one-way form is the resulting paranoia, of which we've just seen a good example.

Your problem is that you wish others to "think for themselves" yet the only reasonable view is the one you hold, correct?

If you reply, "No, others can hold their own views, just stop pushing it on others!" My reply would be, Stop pushing your view on me that I shouldn't push my view on others!"

If one claims, "Think for yourself, you Christians just parrot others" am I to believe that if I listen to them I am then thinking for myself OR have I listened to them and followed their beliefs? If I choose to be a Christian who can state that I am not thinking for myself? The logic is flawed.