6000 Year old Earth? T-Rex on Noah's Ark??!

Originally posted by dbrandt
The lands of the earth being connected together then being divided is addressed in the Bible.

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

So they were.. but not while humans were around and NOT 6000 years ago.

DENY IGNORANCE.

Sorry, I turned to the Bible because it has the answers!!!!!!!!!!

If the bible had factual answers they would be consitent with PROVEN facts.. now PLEASE try show me some respect and do NOT impose YOUR religion on me as though it's scientifically credible. It's not. If your perception was 'right' you should be able to find SOMETHING in reality that verifies the bible's timeline without making reference to it.. and should be able to prove that the universe orbits the earth [it's what the bible says].

Perhaps you could now try answering my other points WITHOUT using the bible..?

[edit on 28-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
and should be able to prove that the universe orbits the earth [it's what the bible says].

Perhaps you could now try answering my other points WITHOUT using the bible..?

[edit on 28-5-2006 by riley]

Could you give the Bible reference for that.

Nope, no can do.

From now on I will only bother with people who are willing to bring actual logic to the table rather than just dogma.

Originally posted by riley
From now on I will only bother with people who are willing to bring actual logic to the table rather than just dogma.

So since I believe the Bible is truth and contains the answers to many questions, and you obviously don't, how do my beliefs affect you?

Originally posted by riley
From now on I will only bother with people who are willing to bring actual logic to the table rather than just dogma.

Lol, just lol. Science is logic, sorry to burst your bubble though.

Burst my bubble? If you are going to make a cameo with a snide one liner could you at least use one that make sense? Science is BASED on logic.. they aren't the same thing.

[edit on 29-5-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by dbrandt
[So since I believe the Bible is truth and contains the answers to many questions, and you obviously don't, how do my beliefs affect you?

They only affect me if you support the idea of legally and forcibly teaching my children your religion in science class, or if you think religion influencing scientific objectivity is okay. Otherwise I think you should be free to practice whatever religion you wish.

[edit on 29-5-2006 by riley]

dbrandt-- I appreciate your actually providing verses in your answers (reading SunMatrix's redundant rebutes were getting quite tedious)-- but where does it say that current-day meat eaters were forced to eat meat? And why?


I'm not attacking your views, I'm simply asking. In being raised Catholic, our translation of the Bible from Hebrew occured at a different time in humanity, thus our interpretation of the Bible is significantly different... though the main points stay the same. Sadly, a large majority of Catholics have resorted to the King James version to escape pursecution, and hereby negating centuries of beautiful rituals and traditions. Of course, this did not work in their favor, since Catholics are still pursecuted to this day (those darn weirdos).


In any case, I am no longer Catholic, and have taken on religious beliefs similar to Hinduism (lacking the multiple gods). Despite this, I do enjoying learning about other religions from an educated individual such as yourself.


I would like to say (and this is not a patronization in any way) that taking into account god's omnipotence as a explanation for god's miraculous abilities (ie: fitting all of the world's animals into one boat) is very effective, and few Christians nowadays can grasp this portion of Christianty's spirituality. Generally, many use blind faith in what someone else has told them as dignification of their own beliefs, as opposed to understanding the fact that god can essentially be everything and everywhere (which in itself is a very hard concept to grasp).


Just remember that many cannot grasp such a magical view of the world (not in a bad way-- I hold my own beliefs in the same fashion), so be patient and keep on confidently speaking your truths, as opposed to frantically preaching them.




[edit on 5/29/2006 by Draconica]

Originally posted by dbrandt

Sorry, I turned to the Bible because it has the answers!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you could use the Bible to answer my earlier questions:-

1) How many pairs of clean animals did Noah take on board the ark?

2) How long did the flood last?

I think that the outstanding issues at the moment are

1. Where in the bible does it say that the universe rotates about the earth
   
2. How many pairs on the ark
   
3. How long of a Flood

One other fact that has yet to be addressed is what about the flora?
Every one goes on about fauna how many of this or how many of that, so my question is how is possible that we have many types of trees, bushes cacti, etc. that quite clearly could not have survived the flood? Who planted them? Noah and his family?
Second and please correct me if I'm mistaken but the creationists' theory believes that we went from pangea to divided contents and that is how the flood came into being. If this is so, and Noah's ark landed on Mt. Ararat in Turkey, then why here in Canada am I looking at a squirrel in a tree. How could it walk across Europe and then swim across the Atlantic Ocean to be here in North America?

As for the three questions asked the last post:
1.Universe rotates around earth? No idea how to answer that one.
2.How many animals? 7 clean male and female animals. Two unclean animals, male and female, and 7 of poultry male and female. (A point often missed about the birds.) Genesis 7:2-3 As for human animals Noah took his sons, his wife, and his sons' wife along with him. This chapter does not name the specific amount of people. Genesis7:6-7
3.How long did the flood last? It took seven days for the (groundwater and glaciers, I am assuming) to flood the earth. Genesis 7:9 And then rain fell for forty days and forty nights. (This would be referring to the canopy of water above the earth due to the expanse waters at the beginning of creation.) After that they sent out a dove, but that's better explained in chapter eight. And then the waters were on the earth for 150 days. Genesis 7:24. So that is 7+40+150=197 days.
(This is all quoted from the King James Version.)

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Mr Mxyztplk]

Originally posted by Essan

Perhaps you could use the Bible to answer my earlier questions:-

1) How many pairs of clean animals did Noah take on board the ark?

2) How long did the flood last?

I have no idea how many pairs were on the ark.

www.gotquestions.org...

Originally posted by riley
They only affect me if you support the idea of legally and forcibly teaching my children your religion in science class, or if you think religion influencing scientific objectivity is okay.

So if it is an elective in school that is OK?

Originally posted by Nygdan

1. Where in the bible does it say that the universe rotates about the earth
   
2. How many pairs on the ark
   
3. How long of a Flood

I don't know if it does.
I don't know if anyone knows that, if I am understanding the question.
www.gotquestions.org...

Hello all

I find this bickering and petty squabbles about this topic to be quite funny.

Listen, I have a suggestion, and ask you to consider it

The matter does not revolve around, how many animals where on the Ark.
It doesn't matter if Noah's three sons, (who he had when Uriel approached Noah and gave him the instructions from God), assisted Noah in the Ark's Construction. It doesn't matter if it took him 100 years with his three son to build the Ark, while being ridiculed by his contempories who jested, much akin to what has taken place here.
If it took 7 or 40 days for the Firmament to disperse, means very little.
If a Koala swam from Austrailia to the Med Basin to get on the Ark doesn't matter.

Why the flood occured, is the question that needs to be answered.

If there was no reason for the flood, then it would not have occured, but since there was reason for the flood, what was it?

Once this is understood, it allows you to consider what occured, and these petty concerns can be addressed.

The Flood was to remove the Nephelium, and Fallen Angels from thier FLESH existance on earth. The "Known" world, as it was known at that time, was wiped clean. Noah and his family alone (Except for Enoch), from the decendants of Adam still had Clean Blood, that had not been polluted by the Fallen. Noah was Adamic. He was perfect in his generations.

These are "KNOWN" according the the Scriptures covering Genesis Chapter 6.

Some answers can then be considered.

Since the Bible's Account, covers first, the Recreation, in Genesis 1 and ends with a Day of rest since all was good from the previous Six Days, we can see, this was as it applied to the Earth, and the People on it, in a generalized sense.

Genesis Chapter 2, beings a new portion or narrows the scope of the rest of the Bible, and begins one of the Longest Geneologies ever produced on this planet. Adam and his Decendants.

From this point on, the Bible is a Text specific to this geneology. It does not divert from this, until the Ministry of Christ. It accounts for Adam's family line to Christ, and then begins the next segement, which many believe encompasses the unclean (the Gentiles), and the Bride (The Church).

So with this understood, I'll present some answers.

Since the Text is Specific to Noah, is it the Whole World, or the Whole of Noah's World, that is Flooded. Obviously, it's Noah's known world.

What Animals would be found on the Ark? The Animals from Noah's World.
Is this suggesting South American, or Polar Spieces?? Of course not. That is not part of the Text, nor is it's Noah's World. Spieces from the Area which are found within Noah's Known world would have been on the Ark.

When did the Flood Occured? Well I think we can look to the Black Sea and the Studies done there that date to 5600 BC. I noted also, in a Topic in ATS about the Pillars of Hercules, there is evidence, that the MED Basin flooded just like the Black Sea. I believe these two things took place during the Same event.

The Firmament was Torn and the Waters from the Canopy rushed and overflowed the Pillar of Hecules, filling the MED with Flood waters, and ultimately bursting into the Black Sea.

The Firmament, dispersing it's waters, along with Global water increasing Sea Levels after the Last Ice Age, was the Flood.

Is this in the Bible, as a fact? Not in so many words, but somewhere, at sometime, COMMON SENSE must stand up.

But there has been little of this shown here. DBrant and Mr Mxyztplk have at least attempted. But hopefully defining WHY, the flood occured, can allow for some sort of direction to the topic.

Ciao

Shane

Shane, the argument between creationists and evolutionists I agree is indeed funny, but it is also important. Evolution has been taught in public schools in North America and Europe for some fifty years, but now creationists are suing for creation to be in the science curriculum as well. Many take offense to religion being taught as science, especially when it defies everything that science has discovered. So a battle is being set up, Science Vs. Religion. The flood debate being just a a small battle of a much larger war.
Well I do agree that the black see flood is the origin of the Noah myth, this would make the bible no longer the wholly truthful inerrant and inspired word of God.
And thus the fight goes on.

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
Well I do agree that the black see flood is the origin of the Noah myth, this would make the bible no longer the wholly truthful inerrant and inspired word of God.
And thus the fight goes on.

I do not get this at all. What effect does the Black Sea Flood, have in making the Biblical account, anything other than it is, The Biblical Account? I do not see, what part of this destroys the Word of God or takes anything away from it.

I am not picking on this, or wishing to argue, but I do not get it.

Here's an example of thought, I am finding even some support for from other areas.

The First Day = 21800 BC = the Age of Capricorn (Let there be Light)
The Second Day = 19650 BC = the Age of Sagittarius (the Firmament or Heavens)
The Third Day = 17500 BC = the Age of Scorpius (The Ground and Plants)
The Forth Day = 15350 BC = the Age of Libra (The Stars in the Heavens)
The Fifth Day = 13200 BC = the Age of Virgo (Aquatic Life and Fowl)
The Sixth Day = 11000 BC = the Age of Leo (Animal Life and the Races)
The Seventh Day = 8850 BC = The Age of Cancer (Adam & Eve)
The Eight Day = 6700 BC = the Age of Gemini(Noah and the Flood)
The Ninth Day = 4500 BC = the Age of Taurus (Bull of Baal)
The Tenth Day = 2400 BC = the Age of Aries (Abraham to David &the Prophets)
The Eleventh Day = 200 BC = the Age of Pisces (Chirst through to the Current)
The Twevlth Day = 2012 AD = the Age of Aquarius (Chirst's return & Revelations)

Genesis 1 covers the first seven days/ages of creation/recreation. 14000 Years, approximately.

Notice, the Age of Gemini happens to coincide with two things. The 'Black Sea Flood' and Noah.

Does this not reflect, an accurate account of what the Bible notes?

I am not picking a fight, just asking, because as I noted, I do not get you remark.

Ciao

Shane

Wow.

Carnivores originally ate meat. Can anyone explain why extant tigers won't eat anything BUT meat, and not even cooked meat? I must say, it's pretty easy to explain ANYTHING about the world with creationism. "God did it....God did it...God did it."

But whoever mentioned plants had a great point. How do we account for all the plant diversity we see today?

And here's another thing about the flood. It's one of the prime examples showing the sadism of bible god. Nearly the ENTIRE human race died. Think about it; everyone drowned, including the elderly, children, and even toddlers and babies. Drowned, pretty bad way to go.

THAT'S the thing that shocks me about how people say this really happened...

Shane, I reviewed your list of dates and I cannot think of a single creation story that it fits into. This thread is about the story of Noah's flood from the Judea/Christian viewpoint. If the flood story were literally true then it could not be the Black Sea flooding because of an incorrect timespan.
And also to what effect does the black sea flood have upon Noah's flood? When the Black Sea flooded a boat REALLY wouldn't have helped. The point of the Judea and Christian religions is that the Bible is the true and inspired world of God. Not simply ancient tales.
As for your astrological/Christian point of view...yeah. Astrology would fall under witchcraft, or depending on the exact timespan and place covered it would be a non-Jewish or non-Christian religion. Never from the formation of Judaism (which Christianity is based upon) has this been looked kindly upon. In fact, many people within these old societies were persecuted for such beliefs.

Originally posted by Shane

Since the Text is Specific to Noah, is it the Whole World, or the Whole of Noah's World, that is Flooded. Obviously, it's Noah's known world.

Excellent point noted. Perhaps the entire world wasn't flooded-- but most definately the known world of Noah was.


It should be taken into account, though that this story is told and retold all over the world. It also occurs in Greek, Hindu, Sumerian, Babylonian, and Native Northwestern American mythologies, and people of these cultures did survive.



(There is also a native South American religion that speaks of a flood from a god [I don't remember of what], and how people and many animals survived it. The most interesting part of the story is the animals that didn't survive, and how strange they supposedly looked. Perhaps that's why they didn't survive...? )