6000 Year old Earth? T-Rex on Noah's Ark??!

We can see many instances of the judaistic religion borrowing from older culture's, mythologies, holidays, symbols, etc.

Hi Prot0n.

Could you provide some of these many instances? Let's bring out the facts, I don't quite believe your comment.

Originally posted by melatonin
Yeah, if you can't explain it - "goddidit".

I did explain it. The explanation does not satisfy you.

Genesis 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

If this said something along the lines of..

Genesis 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah, even indicating which african grey parrot was male, and which was female, as he did for all kinds notoriously difficult to sex.

Then I may be a bit more impressed. Then we could have a later section where it outlines that god used special powers to feed and clean the millions of species on the ark, and used his special genetic modification and cloning apparatus to ensure viable populations after the flood.

But I guess I'm a bit picky like that.

hey-ho...

Originally posted by melatonin

Genesis 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah, even indicating which african grey parrot was male, and which was female, as he did for all kinds notoriously difficult to sex.

Then I may be a bit more impressed. Then we could have a later section where it outlines that god used special powers to feed and clean the millions of species on the ark, and used his special genetic modification and cloning apparatus to ensure viable populations after the flood.

First of all God brought male and female to Noah in the ark. It says He brought male and female. End of problem. Just because Noah may not have been able to tell which one was a male and which was a female is irrelevant. What matters is God could, and He brought what was needed a male and a female.

You say you need to be impressed with God. That's what the Bible is for, to read it and find out who God is and what He is capable of. Some things are easily read and identified about who God is and what He does and doesn't do. Other things are hidden and need to be searched out.

Well, maybe it says 'brought' elsewhere, don't see it in that particular passage, just 'commanded'.

No, not impressed with god, impressed by the evidence for a god. It leaves quite a lot to be desired. I can't be impressed by something I see no evidence for, a book is rather poor evidence. I could read the hindu texts and be as impressed (or rather unimpressed) by their collection of gods.

Just my opinion.

[edit on 22-5-2006 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

We can see many instances of the judaistic religion borrowing from older culture's, mythologies, holidays, symbols, etc.

Hi Prot0n.

Could you provide some of these many instances? Let's bring out the facts, I don't quite believe your comment.

It's easy to make incorrect statements, it's a little harder to back them up I guess.

It reminds me of the guy who stated that one of the many reasons that the Bible is proven wrong, blah blah blah. The guy never could come up with even one reason let alone countless reasons as he claimed.

Let's get the facts on the table.

Jewish Passover is a borrowing of an older pagan holiday that was a rite of spring, hence the lamb, egg, etc on the passover plate and the timming.

The jews also foretold the future by studying dreams, which is another paganistic practice.
They'd undergo ritual purificiation of the body by rubbing it with oils and ritual bathing, which had been a pagan rite for a long time.

The jews would rub dirt and ash on their faces when in mourning, which is also a widespread paganistic practice. THis may have carried over into Lent amoung christians.

The jews also carried over the worship of Asherah, placing an Idol to her in Solomon's Temple. They burned incense and made offerings to the Brazen Serpent in that same temple, another paganistic practice. They worshipped upon the hilltops in forests, just like the ancient and widespread tree cult. Even today they consider "Mt. Zion" to be holy, its the old 'Thunder God of the high places". Or hold the river Jordan to be holy, a clear paganistic practice, similar today to how the hindus worship the Ganges.

Something like circumcision was also practiced in many pagan cultures, such as the aztecs. The Jews, obviously, didn't get the practice from them, but the trait appears to be widespread and mimiced in female circumcision, which is practiced in the wider region that the jews are in.

I don't really know much about judaism, and I can see those ones. Perhaps someone that has studied the religion a little more can illuminate us on the subject.

Originally posted by dbrandt
It says He brought male and female. End of problem.

Any problem can be ended if we just suppose that there was a miracle.

things are easily read and identified about who God is and what He does and doesn't do.

I don't recall seeing the bible being highlighted with sections that can be interpretated literally and others that are more 'difficult' and can be interpretated esoterically. Is the Noah's ark story literal or esoteric? The whole or in parts? Did noah have to release a dove that found land, or is that an esoteric story within it that relates to god's divine pressence saving them? Is the parable of the good samaritan meaningless if it didn't literally happen?

The Christian religion is something else that borrows elements of other religions. Christmas as awfully close to the old pagan Festival of Light, which marked the New Year. As the bible has no information in it at all about the exact date of the birth of Jesus, this makes it somewhat suspicious.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
It reminds me of the guy who stated that one of the many reasons that the Bible is proven wrong, blah blah blah. The guy never could come up with even one reason let alone countless reasons as he claimed.

Let's get the facts on the table.

You started a thread claming something was fact when it was just your opinion. You stated that everything in the bible is true, failed to prove ANY of your claims.. yet still claimed to be stating facts not opinions. Eg. You claimed Noah existed. I asked [several times] you to prove there was a world wide flood 5000 years ago. Instead of answering.. you said to start a thread in this forum on it [even though it would have been removed for being duplicate] and assured me that you would answer it here.

Well here you are in an applicable thread so..

When was Noah's flood?

Put your facts on the table.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
It reminds me of the guy who stated that one of the many reasons that the Bible is proven wrong, blah blah blah. The guy never could come up with even one reason let alone countless reasons as he claimed.

Let's get the facts on the table.

You started a thread claming something was fact when it was just your opinion. You stated that everything in the bible is true, failed to prove ANY of your claims.. yet still claimed to be stating facts not opinions. Eg. You claimed Noah existed. I asked [several times] you to prove there was a world wide flood 5000 years ago. Instead of answering.. you said to start a thread in this forum on it [even though it would have been removed for being duplicate] and assured me that you would answer it here.

Well here you are in an applicable thread so..

When was Noah's flood?

Put your facts on the table.

It would not have been a duplicate thread at the time.

Noah's flood likely happened between 2500 and 2300 B.C. Ok, now you can post your stuff here.

The literal translation of the flood is silly.

You would have to believe that one pair of every single spiecies of animal was on that ark. Yet I see no mention of buffalo, alligators, kangaroos, zebras, komodo dragins, ect.

It would be impossible for 7 people to feed over 100,000 spiecies of animal, let alone build a habitation big enough for them all.

But of course, dbrant will say god did it with his magic.

Yup, free will, and I use my free will to chose to view the bible as a rip off fairy tale. besides, why would I want to worship a god specific to a tribe of people no relation to me, a god who condones genocide, racism, ect?

Ill pass. There are more worthy paths in life to follow.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
It would not have been a duplicate thread at the time.

Ah yes it would have been. It's been discussed about thirty times and I'm not willing to risk getting warnings for something you requested. There is no logical reason why you can't post it here.

Noah's flood likely happened between 2500 and 2300 B.C. Ok, now you can post your stuff here.

You know I already posted it in the other thread.. why would I keep posting evidence that you only ignore? The ONLY thing remotely close to a world wide flood happened about 15-20 thousand years ago after the the last ice age. I provided geological proof. You said you were willing to back up your claims HERE so it is now your turn. PROVE there was a world wide flood between 2500 and 2300 B.C. and stop accusing other people of not providing facts when they have.

It's really only on princible I asked yet again.. pretty obvious you were bluffing.

[edit on 24-5-2006 by riley]

Riley

Maybe I missed your proof. What page was it on in that thread.

Your comments are pretty insignificant so I haven't paid much attention to you. I just don't like to waste much time on things that are up for debate when there are so many things that can be proved that needs attention.

I would like to review the proof that you have, I just didn't see it.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by jta79
Exactly. I'm not a religious researcher or anything, but I know I am correct when I say that the Bible was NOT written in English and I dont care what language you translate into what language, there's always things that just dont come out the same, and somethings can mean something else totally different.

Also a question of the 'biblical flood' Is there even enough water tied up on this earth to actually account for a flood of such magnitude? Been thinking of that for a while...



[edit on 18-5-2006 by jta79]

Your first paragraph is the standard reason most use to not believe it. In other words an excuse to write it off and not bother with it. The decision to view it this way is a CHOICE that people make, and they are certainly free to do that. There are others who have used their free will to make a CHOICE also, and believe what it says as truth.

So since God has always been, He has given us the answers to the flood within the pages of the Bible. Since He was there, and none of us were, here's what He tells us happened.

There was a ring of water around the earth. He also placed water within the earth. The flood came from the ring of water as it fell to the earth as rain. Also the "fountains of the deep were broken up" meaning the earth's surface burst open as the water stored under it shot upward.

We've all seen the devastation caused by the tsunami in Indonesia. Water can cause great damage and destruction and mainly death to human life in abrief amount of time. Add to tsunami's, torrential rain from the sky and water shooting forth in great amounts from under the earth, and this water of the flood in Noah's time was worse than anyone can imagine.

Now the earth's landscape before the flood was different than the landscape we see now. After the flood, God tells us He had the "mountains rise and the valleys sink". The floodwaters receeded into these ocean basins.

There is enough water on the earth right now to flood it considering God tells us the landscape was different then. It was more level and would have flooded easier.

Now you can choose to believe this or not. But remember you are making a choice, no one is making this choice for you. A reason some people choose not to believe that this is how it happened, is because they limit God. People make God out to be too small and powerless. He spoke the world into existence out of nothing, so He surely has the power to alter it's topography. God is a GOD. He is all powerful and His abilities are BEYOND what any of us can imagine.

Now since I believe what He tells us regarding the flood and how it happened, I can move on to other questions. The flood one is settled for me(and others who trust in what He says in the Bible). We have the answer to the flood. We don't have to keep searching and wondering, "hmmm........, I wonder if there really was a worldwide flood and what happend during it". We also don't have to fall for every new fairytale that comes along and ponder over it as to whether it is plausible or not as to the flood answer. We have the answer to that question, so we are FREE to move on to other questions and grow in knowledge and truth.

Now please tell me this, what bible do you read? King James version maybe? As someone has stated befor, the bible was not written in english, which is a very well known fact. But what people forget is, who acturlly wrote the first bible? PEOPLE.
Do you hoenstly think that God came down from heaven sat there and wrote out the bible in hebrew for everyone? Or is it claimed that hat was written was divinely inspired, and that MAN wrote down those words.
So for you to say that since none of us where there and that we should go to the bible for the answer, you are just going and looking at a story written by MAN, not God. I would like you to prove that the bible is the literal word of God. By the way just a little bill hicks quote "If God wrote the bible, it would be in very simple and easy to understand. Since he was the creator of language and all"

Then you keep to go on to say that god has limitless power, he his omnipotent. Yes that is very well known, and i dont think anyway tries to argue the fact the the idea of the christian God is omnipotent. I dont think anyone has every argued that, but people have argued that God doesnt exist. So i dont see how you saying people see him as weak relevant what so ever. Its a monothestic religion, thats the way those relgions are set up.

So insted of looking in ONE BOOK WROTE BY MAN, there are millions of other books out there aswell, with just as valueble knowledge.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Riley

Maybe I missed your proof. What page was it on in that thread.

Look through it yourself and stop stalling. YOU are the one who stated Noah's flood was fact.. I asked you to prove it. This world wide flood supposedly happened 5000 years ago. You assured me that if I took it to this forum you would provide proof, instead you came to this forum to insult someone who participated in that thread.. basically calling them a liar.

Bring your proof.. otherwise don't say you have it or claim things are fact when they are not.

BTW. Care to explain to me why there was NOT a mass extinction only 5000 years ago [they can't have all been on a boat ] and why Australian animals and aboriginals [and countless other races] were unaffected by this flood? Obviously Noah didn't make it all the way down under. Just a little challenge. Let me make a prediction.. you will avoid these questions as well.

[edit on 25-5-2006 by riley]

YOU are the one who stated Noah's flood was fact.. I asked you to prove it. This world wide flood supposedly happened 5000 years ago. You assured me that if I took it to this forum you would provide proof, instead you came to this forum to insult someone who participated in that thread.. basically calling them a liar.

I believe you are again mistaken. You asked this question:

When was the flood? It can't have been in his lifetime unless he was over 10,000 years old.

I told you this kind of stuff really doesn't interest me, I already have my answers. I told you after constant dripping that if you would take it to the origins forum where it belongs, I would answer your question.

Then you came to this forum and said.

Well here you are in an applicable thread so.. When was Noah's flood?

Here is my answer which you can find posted right after your question.

Noah's flood likely happened between 2500 and 2300 B.C. Ok, now you can post your stuff here.

I think that you need to get your facts straight.

Wow. I predicted that you would fail to provide proof [despite saying you would] and would completely avoid my other questions. I must have ESP.

You cannot state Noahs flood as fact without proof.. it is story telling. At this point I'm starting to think you may even believe that their were dinos on the ark.. it's just as far fetched as squeezing every single species on the planet onto a primitive boat.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by riley]

I don't really bother with claims that have no substantial evidence, those being that the earth is 6,000 years old despite all the geological evidence that surrounds us. So I typically ignore these arguments because all it does is give the fundamentalists what they want: attention

the Grand Canyon was formed not by erosion over millions of years, but by floodwaters in a matter of days or weeks

Haha, that's why we have a thing called science. Unless the flood waters were made of lead. I unerstand that you don't necessarily agree, but that is just stupid. I find it hard not to get annoyed at creationists especially as they want it to be introduced into the curriculum here in England. I do respect religion though and beleve in the lessons you can learn from it, but this really puts a spanner in the works. Don't confuse faith with science IMO.

[edit on 26-5-2006 by Xeros]