6000 Year old Earth? T-Rex on Noah's Ark??!

Originally posted by dbrandt
All animals were originally vegetarian. Yes even a lion and a bear that we see today, ate grass.

Would you please point to where in the bible that is stated? I couldn't find it.

And would you please tell me why everyone always quotes the bible as stating that there were only two of each animal, one male and one female, when it clearly states;


genesis 7.2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that [are] not clean by two, the male and his female.
genesis 7.3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Now that makes 14 [7 pairs of each clean beast] a viable biological selection, but would need an even BIGGER ark than stated. I am assuming that by unclean, pigs would be in that category considering the Jewish and Arabic distaste for them.


People always love quoting the bible to suit their points yet overlook other passages. I have yet to ask one person on the street that is a Christian who has ever said anything other than "two of each" including ministers.


[A little off topic, but if there is a post here about this please let me know]
The other question I could never get a straight answer too was; Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain killed able and was bannished. He feared for his life from other men, to which God promises him He would return vengence on any such man 7 fold. Then Cain has a wife bearing him children.

What men was Cain afraid of and where did his wife come from?




[edit on 7-7-2006 by zorgon]

6030 Years!! Ok. 6030 years from the creation of Adam. Thats is the historical record of human kind kept over the ages and preserved within the bible. It does not mean that the earth is 6000 years old. But that is another debate.

Ok so you don't believe the bible, but why don't you? Because you misunderstand what it is saying. Because of confusion you disregard it. If you learn the truth you will understand it and believe it. If I told you that world war one was in 1912, you would argue because the recorded history shows that this event was in 1914. The recorded history of humankind is found in its oldest book. The bible contains the records that helps us to determine how long we have been here on earth.

So I don't know how old the earth is but the historical records contained in the manuscripts and ancients texts that now forms part of the bible says that humans have been on earth for 6030 years. I don't question 1914 as the date of world war one. Its part of our recorded history. 6030 years back Adam was created and I don't question that either.

But the Bible isn't our oldest book. It was only written in the 7th/8th centuries BC. There are loads of Egyptian, Sumerian etc texts goings back way further


As for the ol' 'how many animals entered the ark' issue - it's a question I often bring up. The Bible is quite clear on this. It was, er, well, um ...... actually it's totally contradictory on this. Because the Biblical account of Noah's Flood is in fact a combination of 2 slightly different stories. Hence too the confusion over how long the rains fell, how long the flood lasted and how long Noah was actually aboard the boat.

Originally posted by Methuselah
no thanks
so its not 100% wrong, you just dont believe in it and you cant prove it wrong. just because you dont believe in it doenst make it wrong.

This is a Sketch of Noah's Ark

[Ex]Genesis
6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in
the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of:
The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the
breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt
thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in
the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories
shalt thou make it.

300 x 50 x 30 Cubits are it's dimensions.
or
147 x 24 x 14.7 Yards are it's dimensions (approx)

As for your Turkish Claims of Noah's Resting Place, I guess that's based solely if Mt Ararat, as it was called by Marco Polo in the 13th Century, was the reference point. Could there be alternatives?

www.worldviewweekend.com...
As discussed within this Link
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for Giants, in the Bible, yes you are correct.
As for your ASSUMPTIONS, they are Not according to Gods Word.

6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man
and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Perfect is Tamiym in the Hebrew from the Prime taman meaning Entire.

Tamiiym means, as a Noun, in this case. Integrity, Truth:- without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity),sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole

Generations is Toldah in the Hebrew, from the Prime Yalad, meaning to bear young. It is specific to show lineage, born, begat, bear, child, come, to delivered, declared pedigrees, be the sons of, and on

Toldah means family, (fig) history :- birth, generations

Where in any of this, do words used by God, thru Moses, indicate Noah and his Family where as everyone else that lived in Noah's area?

Genesis
6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face
of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they
were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with
man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an
hundred and twenty years.
6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after
that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men
which were of old, men of renown.
6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the
earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his
heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth,
and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created
from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the
creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me
that I have made them.

None of this, is associated in any manner with Noah or his Family.

And to extend on this

Enoch
LXVII. God's Promise to Noah: Places of Punishment of the Angels and of the Kings.

CHAPTER LXVII.
1. And in those days the word of God came unto me, and He said unto me: 'Noah, thy lot has come up before Me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness. 2. And now the angels are making a wooden (building), and when they have completed that task I will place My hand upon it and preserve it, and there shall come forth from it the seed of life, and a change shall set in so that the earth will not remain without inhabitant. 3. And I will make fast thy seed before me for ever and ever, and I will spread abroad those who dwell with thee: it shall not be unfruitful on the face of the earth, but it shall be blessed and multiply on the earth in the name of the Lord.'

4. And He will imprison those angels, who have shown unrighteousness, in that burning valley which my grandfather Enoch had formerly shown to me in the west among the mountains of gold and silver and iron and soft metal and tin. 5. And I saw that valley in which there was a great convulsion and a convulsion of the waters. 6. And when all this took place, from that fiery molten metal and from the convulsion thereof in that place, there was produced a smell of sulphur, and it was connected with those waters, and that valley of the angels who had led astray (mankind) burned beneath that land. 7. And through its valleys proceed streams of fire, where these angels are punished who had led astray those who dwell upon the earth.

8. But those waters shall in those days serve for the kings and the mighty and the exalted, and those who dwell on the earth, for the healing of the body, but for the punishment of the spirit; now their spirit is full of lust, that they may be punished in their body, for they have denied the Lord of Spirits and see their punishment daily, and yet believe not in His name. 9. And in proportion as the burning of their bodies becomes severe, a corresponding change shall take place in their spirit for ever and ever; for before the Lord of Spirits none shall utter an idle word. 10. For the judgement shall come upon them, because they believe in the lust of their body and deny the Spirit of the Lord. 11. And those same waters will undergo a change in those days; for when those angels are punished in these waters, these water-springs shall change their temperature, and when the angels ascend, this water of the springs shall change and become cold. 12. And I heard Michael answering and saying: 'This judgement wherewith the angels are judged is a testimony for the kings and the mighty who possess the earth.' 13. Because these waters of judgement minister to the healing of the body of the kings and the lust of their body; therefore they will not see and will not believe that those waters will change and become a fire which burns for ever.

We'll pickup from here.

Ciao

Shane

Now in that Enoch portion, What is Noah? How is he again described.

As the Spawn of Satan and the Fallen, or "Noah, thy lot has come up before Me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness."

So, if you wish, YOU MAY contort and distort anything you wish to claim, scripturally, but that does not afford you the liberty to proclaim truths you wish to fabricate, due solely to your disinterest in studying.

And for your sake, this is not something that I madeup. This is Scriptural teaching, not something presumed and twisted to mean what I would like it to say. My say in any of that is a mute point. It's God's Word.

Zorgon

You have made some nice points

Covering of clouds blocking the Sun's radiation and cosmic rays. Once the clouds released the moisture [rain] the radiation increased shortening man's lifespan
Easy Polar Ice Caps which are melting now and will bring the floods back. Maybe the next end "by fire" translates into rising temperatures?

I think this was more substanial than Clouds, and also allowed Visual principles of Magnification and well as Reflective properties. There is Ancient lore which speaks to actual Fishes, and/or Peoples inhabiting this Firmament/Heavens.

And the Ice Caps, maynot only be, the result. I appreciate offerings made by those such as Byrd, and Harte, who in other areas, tended to expalined the Flood due to Global Temperature increases which started about 10000 BC, (Give or Take). Their input is valid, but I find it difficult to see how Cities, gradually sank below these waters. Over Time, certainly, but as we can see off the coast of India, there are several sites that are and have been presumed lost or fiction, which infact are being found in the Costal waters. I believe, there is about a 300' increase in Global Coastal Waters, that could also be explained through the release of these "Incubating" waters from the Firmament, which would have sunk places like these more swiftly than inch by inch annually.

THIS IS TOTAL SPECUALTION ON MY PART.

The Fire, aspect, could be just the internal earthly explainations of Lava. The event was earth shaking, as well as soaking, so those desciptions could be associated in that manner. Just a Suggestion.

Yourmaster

6030 Years!! Ok. 6030 years from the creation of Adam. Thats is the historical record of human kind kept over the ages and preserved within the bible. It does not mean that the earth is 6000 years old. But that is another debate.

You are correct, and incorrect.

Ok. 6030 years from the creation of Adam. This reflects accuracy, but is misleading.

Thats is the historical record of human kind kept over the ages and preserved within the bible. You have opted not to reflect upon the Recreation of those on the Sixth Day.

Genesis
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature
after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the
earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and
cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the
earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all
the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful,
and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have
dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the
air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing
seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every
tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to
you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the
air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein
there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and
it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it
was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth
day.

This is two "days" prior to Adam and Eve. Both Man and Female, and given Dominion over the fruits and beasts and fowl and fishes of the Earth.

Aboriginies in Austrailia, have an Oral history of some 14000 Years.

What is a Day, mean in the 8 days of Recreation/Creation? Any period of time from 24 hours to 5200 Years, could be used, as well as anyother.

It does not mean that the earth is 6000 years old. Again, accurate. Debateable? I do not think there is any debate. Even Byrd and Harte would agree.

Ciao

Shane

Your joking right? Some people are so dumb they will believe anything. I also like how everybody comes out of the wood work on this, " If its in the bible it has to be true", stuff. I used to be a main stream christian, I practice wicca now.....there are to many so called ,"Experts", in christanity and too many loop holes that don't make sense that are the bases of the so called,"Religion". T-rex, keep smoking that stuff and you'll believe anything.

Thanks Shane. I did over simplify my statements with the clouds, etc as the topic of this thread was Dinosaurs on the Ark... But thanks for the references...

As to the topic...

What not ONE COMMENT on the Fossil Picture? Shhessh

Originally posted by cyraxx
I used to be a main stream christian, I practice wicca now.....

Sorry to hear of your fall, and saddly, thats the problem with Religion. Too many suggesting this and that, rather than just accepting the Word as Written. Unfortunately, not many appreciate Hebrew/Chaldean or Greek nor can read the Original texts, and we are left with the Creation of King Jame's Translators, for better or worse.

The Letter, (Refered to as the Bible) was written for you Cyraxx, and regardless of what "this know it all" or "that expert" has to say about anything within that letter, really means very little.

And Zorgon.

Actually, I have seen similiar footprints on rock that was once beach, a million years ago, (or so). Someone walking along the shore at one time. It was more to the size of what we would expect today. Also, the area was littered with Dinosaur Prints. This was in the Mid U.S. I'll see if there is anything on the Internet about this as well.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
Actually, I have seen similiar footprints on rock that was once beach, a million years ago, (or so). Someone walking along the shore at one time. It was more to the size of what we would expect today. Also, the area was littered with Dinosaur Prints. This was in the Mid U.S. I'll see if there is anything on the Internet about this as well.

Yes please do. I had several pictures years ago, but lost them when I got interrupted in my research by life. I would love to find them again. Especially one that showed a left and right foot print of shoes, under the heal of one foot was a crushed Trilobite. This one was found by a Minister and his daughter while digging fossils in a shale bed... That's all the info I have... no location etc.

Trouble with the internet is TOO much data, takes way to much time to find obscure things

Originally posted by zorgon
Yes please do.

This is one I had seen a few years back.

And heres the Story
www.bible.ca...


This was more recent, as a find, but predates Dinosaurs

And here's the Story
www.bible.ca...


One I was amazed about revolved around a family in Arkansas, (If I remember correctly), who was doing some Landscaping on their property. During the Work, they found the Bedrock Layer, and "noticed" a Dinosaur print. Clearing more and more, they found Human prints as well. I saw this in a Documentary offered on a Cband Bird, by a Private broadcaster, and this would have been at least 15 years ago.

While filiming, they found more.

As to what any of this truely represents, will likely remain a true mystery.

Footprints of Upright Man, coexisting or predating Dinosaurs? I do not know.
First Earth Age Man, as Paul speaks of?
The Angels on earth during the First Earth Age watching over the "Evolution" of their creations?

But it is difficult to dismiss finds like these. They certainly make you wonder sometimes.

If I find that other site, I post it up.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by zorgon

What not ONE COMMENT on the Fossil Picture?

Shhessh

www.talkorigins.org...

Originally posted by Shane
This is one I had seen a few years back.

Thanks Great pictures...[yes I read the controversy stuff too melatonin which BTW led to THIS SITE

Footprints of Upright Man, coexisting or predating Dinosaurs? I do not know.
First Earth Age Man, as Paul speaks of?
The Angels on earth during the First Earth Age watching over the "Evolution" of their creations?

Or maybe God has a sense of Humour? That would explain a lot of things

Originally posted by Methuselah
ok you all think im ignoring you. this is not the case.
Noah and his family were giants along with everyone else (which wasnt very much of a population. maybe a couple million if anything.)

OMFG i just got back from Vegas..and i see that

that is......crap i dont even know what to say???

and i thought i saw some interesting stuff in SIN city

The problem with the picture of the possible skull on Mars is that it could be anything. For one thing, exposure to the Martian atmosphere, winds etc, would have either eroded or buried it after several millennia. Skulls are surprisingly brittle things.
For another you could take a picture of anything in that light and proclaim it to be anything. I can make a plausible case for it looking like a rubber ducky. Pardon me while I go away and giggle at that.

Originally posted by jta79
Ok, I'll start by saying I am mostly an evolutionist, but I wont put anything down untill it can be proven, well untill I seen this....

Among Ham's beliefs are that the Earth is about 6,000 years old, a figure arrived at by tracing the biblical genealogies, and not 4.5 billion years, as mainstream scientists say; the Grand Canyon was formed not by erosion over millions of years, but by floodwaters in a matter of days or weeks and that dinosaurs and man once coexisted, and dozens of the creatures -- including Tyrannosaurus Rex -- were passengers on the ark built by Noah, who was a real man, not a myth.

Well there is only one real problem with Ham's idea's.
There is absolutely no credible evidence to support any of them. He has decided to make up his own stories so he can incorporate things like dinosaurs, which he couldn't otherwise explain.